Group Disscusions

[Beleg]

Since we have now gotten a seperate Guild :) we should continue discussing the debating program on a seperate thread. Here we can discuss anything concerning debating program, inner guild debates etc,

[YayGollum]

What was the last thing we were talking about? I remember stuffs about Dwarves being the first born instead of the evil elves, Mim, and why people like elves more than Dwarves. We already want something new? oh well. I'll figure it out.

[The_Swordmaster]

Here is the last topic by Beleg_strongbow

Mìm, the only dwarf to make really active appearence in Published Quenta Silmarillion.

Basically discuss anything concerning Mìm. His role in the Politics of First age, his part in the tale of Children of Hùrin and his cause of attacking Belegetc,

[YayGollum]

Okay.

Anything concerning Mim ---> He's one of my favorite characters from The Sil. He's my second favorite Dwarf character. I don't see why people hate him.

Role in the politics of the first age ---> I read something about that one time, but could care less and can't remember.

Part in the tale of Hurin's kids ---> I forget who they are. They're just boring humans in a fantasy adventure story. What's so cool about them?

Cause of attacking Beleg ---> When did he attack Beleg?

[Aulë]

Mîm tried to kill Beleg after he had been injured by the orcs that Mîm brought ot his dwelling. Beleg scared Mîm off though.
Mîm was quite hospitable towards the Men of Hurín's company, but he despised Elves (and therefore Beleg) because of how the Elves hunted Mîm's kind for sport in the past.

[Beleg]

But there were surely some deficencies in Mim's character, one of them being greed, although i deem that in the end he went a bit paraniod (like Gollum) in the lust of Gold and Money, perhaps because his whole race had been wiped out and it had a negative effect on his mind.

[YayGollum]

Give me a quote that says Mim ever tried to attack Beleg. I got The Sil. right here and that never happened.

Anyways, sure, while I don't doubt that he hated elves for killing his friends and family and tossing them out of their homes for no good reason, I'd say that he also hated Beleg because he took Turin's attention away from him. All kinds of reasons to be jealous. Poor Mim.

Also, sure, Yay for greed! I don't see how that made him such a bad guy, though. Why do you think he was anywhere near as paranoid as poor Smeagol? just wondering.

[Aulë]

The Silmarillion: Of Túrin Turambar
Then with hatred long stored Mîm stepped up to Beleg, and drew forth the sword Anglachel that lay beneath the body of one that had fallen beside him; but Beleg stumbling up seized back the sword and thrust it at the Dwarf, and Mîm in terror fled wailing from the hill-top.

[YayGollum]

So what? Mim stepped up to Beleg, and drew forth the sword Anglachel. You like to assume the worst, don't you? The Sil. never said what Mim was thinking or what he was about to do. There is no quote that says that Mim ever attacked Beleg.

[The_Swordmaster]

Seeing that the debating program hasn't been active in a while. I thought of coming up with a new topic.

Why do ypu think the dwarven raced failed? Because it is said in the fourth age Men rise and the elves, dwarves and all others population decresed. Did Aule make a mistake in their creation so that they wouldn't past the test of time? Or was it just Men are superior to all of the races?

[YayGollum]

I think it stopped because people noticed that I would be evil and stubborn about everything. oh well. :rolleyes:

Anyways, no, I don't really see how an entire race can fail. I don't think that Dwarves can't take the test of time. I think that they were still around way into the future of Middle Earth. They just don't reproduce as fast as humans and dragons like to eat them. :eek: Also, Ick. No. Humans aren't superior, they just happened to be more numerous.

[Aulë]

LOTR:Return Of The King - Appendix A III
It is because of the fewness of women among them that the kind of the Dwarves increases slowly, and is in peril when they have no secure dwellings. For Dwarves take only one wife or husband each in their lives, and are jealous, as in all matters of their rights. The number of dwarf-men that marry is actually less than one-third. For not all the women take husbands: some desire one that they cannot get, and so will have no other. As for the men, very many also do not desire marriage, being engrosed in their crafts.

From this, we can presume that their numbers slowly dwindled over time, until they were no more.

[Beleg]

Anyone interested in a One to One debate with me?

[Gamil Zirak]

The dwarves were dwindling at the end of the third age. They had several kingdoms sacked by Dragons. They also used the seven rings to increase their wealth and without them it was harder to get rich. They also lost a lot of men, er, dwarves in the war of dwarves and orcs.

[YayGollum]

Ack! Evil Aule person! Why would you think that their numbers dwindles until they were no more when the quote you provided had the little ---> 'and is in peril' part?

Also, sure, I'll go into a one on one thingy. I hope you gots an interesting topic that I won't hate researching. :rolleyes:

[Beleg]

Also, sure, I'll go into a one on one thingy. I hope you gots an interesting topic that I won't hate researching.
Which kind of topic will you prefer?

[YayGollum]

What kind of topic? Well, I already said that I hope it would be something that I won't mind researching. I thought you had already come up with an idea since you asked in the first place. oh well. Whatever you decide. I would think it would be cool if it was about Dwarves.

[Orclord1990]

Can I post here or not,if you want a topic,you can talk about the ansesters of the dwarves or something similer

[YayGollum]

I see nothing wrong with anybody posting here. Anyways, if you're going to suggest a topic for debating, wouldn't you make it a little more specific? I'm guessing that you're just interested in learning more about that subject. Any specific questions that the little F.A.Q. thing didn't answer?

[Orclord1990]

No,not really.

[omnipotent_elf]

i have a question, however i dont know weather its good enough for debates, but here i go anyways......

how long would it take a dwarf to turn completely evil with the one ring...?

[Gamil Zirak]

He wouldn't turn evil.

[Orclord1990]

A dwarf would never be curupted by the power of the ring and not even at its full potental ether.Dwarves are the strongest!

[Beleg]

Depends upon your Defination of evil. They become Greedy yes, Unfair maybe, but not downright evil.

[The_Swordmaster]

Well Beleg and Yay if your gonna do your debate you must do it in the Debating Arena thread. For no on this place will be for general discussion.

[Aulë]

Originally posted by YayGollum
Ack! Evil Aule person! Why would you think that their numbers dwindles until they were no more when the quote you provided had the little ---> 'and is in peril' part?

Well, this just confirms what I said:

From HoME 11: Concerning Dwarves
§5 The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their beards were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf - unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls. It is said, also, that their womenkind are few, and that save their kings and chieftains few Dwarves ever wed, wherefore their race multiplied slowly, and now is dwindling.

[YayGollum]

I don't see how it confirms it. It says the exact same thing. The word 'is' is used. Which means that the population is still dwindling. It's not gone yet. No reason to think they're all dead.

[The_Swordmaster]

I have a new topic for the guild.

Was Balin and his followers foolish for trying to reclaim Moria?

[YayGollum]

Of course not. Look at the coolness of Moria. How is it a bad thing to try getting all of that back? Nothing obviously told them that the place still had a balrog in it.

[The_Swordmaster]

Isn't the fact that they left Moria once before enough evidence that something bad was in there.

[Beleg]

A very nice topic. Swordmaster do you want this to be a general debate, or a particular debate between selected teams/personals

[YayGollum]

As far as I know, it's for everyone. If he only wanted certain people in on it, he would have said so. Or am I just crazy? oh well. What are you talking about when you say ---> they left Moria once before enough evidence that something bad was in there? just wondering. I thought that Balin showed up and got killed all at once and that he never showed up, left, and came back to get killed.

[The_Swordmaster]

A very nice topic. Swordmaster do you want this to be a general debate, or a particular debate between selected teams/personals

This is a group discussion if it was a formal debate it would be in the Debating Arena thread.

[YayGollum]

Hm. Got it. No answering of questions. That helps out a lot. :rolleyes:

[Bethelarien]

I apologize for intruding in your thread and your guild, but there is an issue that needs to be addressed.

As many of you know, the Guild of Dwarves and the Guild of Elves are jointly participating in the upcoming debate tournament. Currently, I am the only GoE member on the team. There are two GoD members, but we can have more than four debaters.

I have posted a thread about this in the GoE section, if those already participating and any interested parties could post there, and address any concerns or questions in that thread. Thank you.

[Aulë]

The Round 1 debate thread is here: http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11780

Please arrange the GoE/D team of 4 for this debate as quickly as possible.

[The_Swordmaster]

I thought the team was already made. Isn't it?

[Aulë]

Yes, it was madeup 2 days ago.
The debate has begun, Swordmaster.
It's in the Ost-in-Edhil Guild.
The Guild of Elves/Dwarves team is:

-The_Swordmaster
-Glorfindel1187
-Bethelarien
and, - Ledreanne

So you'd better make an appearance soon :)

[The_Swordmaster]

Yes I will post as soon as I have the time to. Btw what happen to Gamil? Is he still on the team.

[Aulë]

Well you had better be quick. There are only 4 days left in the debate.
And Gamil is still in the squad.

[Ancalagon]

Hurry up and post people, Gothmog is like a Balrog posessed and wants to post his first response! I don't know how long I can keep him at bay!!!!

:D

[Aulë]

Too late....:p
Never mind: it may well be the easiest victory the OiE have ever had...

[Ancalagon]

It may well be the FIRST victory Ost-in-Edhil have ever had:D

[Arvedui]

Sorry to barge in as a stranger in this Guild, but I do recall one Luthien debate that we won.

BTW, Gothmog couldn't be stalled any longer....

[Aulë]

Well that old peoples won the debate....

But here is a chance to even up the Win/Loss record.
The next debate has started, and the topic is a beauty! :D
The Dwarves/Elves have the choice of stance too. :)
Go get 'em Swordmaster. :)

[omnipotent_elf]

AND ME :P

[Scatha]

Besides Omni here, the active participation from within this guild has been very disappointing. Ironic to find this thread in the guild.

Please remove me from the members list.

[The_Swordmaster]

I saddens me deeply for me to do this. But if you want this done I will do it. Goodbye Scatha you will be missed in this guild.

[The_Swordmaster]

Oh I have an idea for a good disscusion.

"Normal dwarves disliked the Petty dwarves. Why was this so?"

Once again this is a group disscusion anyone can post their opinion. This is not a formal debate or anything like that.

[Gamil Zirak]

Their name says it all:

According to Webster
petty:
Etymology: Middle English pety small, minor, alteration of petit
Date: 14th century
1 : having secondary rank or importance
2 : having little or no importance or significance
3 : marked by or reflective of narrow interests and sympathies :

So we know they were disliked because they were called petty dwarves. Why did the dwarves give them such a name?

Were they theives? Mim and Co. did have a nice little hoard built up.

[The_Swordmaster]

Also the petty dwarves such as Mim and his sons told non dwarves his true Khuzdul name which is against the unwritten dwarf laws.

[Aulë]

What do you guys think would have happened if the Dwarves of Belegost had joined up with the Dwarves of Nogrod to sack Doriath?

I don't think any numbers were given regarding the size of thier armies though.