Fëanor and Hitler

[BlackCaptain]

In a Silmarillion thread, the thought occured to me that Feanor and Hitler are very simalar.

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Hitler was one leader, who wanted more land, and was very greedy. He wouldn't have drove all of the German's into war, and woujldn't have made them look bad in front of the entire world if some people had just stood up to him.

Feanor, was one leader, who wanted his Silmarills, and was very greedy. He wouldn't have drove all the Noldo into ME, and war with Melkor, and made them look bad in front of all the Eldalie if some of the Noldo had just stood up to him on Tirion.

It was once said by a great pope that greed and selfishness is theh root of all war. WWII completely devestated Germany, and the Wars of Wrath plundered Belriand because of Hitler's and Feanors greed for land and jewels. If Feanor hadn't took the Silmarills to Foremenos, they wouldn't have been captured and war had to been waged in the first place. It was out of greed that Feanor brought the Silmarills to Foremenos, and it was out of greed that Hitler enflamed the Germans' hearts and waged war.

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It appears to me that Feanor has alot of 'Silmariliaties' (haha... see what I did there? oh im good...) with Hitler.

I don't have any good quotes or anything, but it's just an idea that arose in my head. Does anyone else think this now that iv'e brought it up?

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by BlackCaptain
Hitler was one leader, who wanted more land, and was very greedy. He wouldn't have drove all of the German's into war, and woujldn't have made them look bad in front of the entire world if some people had just stood up to him.

This isnt true as those who did stand up to him i.e. the Communists, were taken to concentration camps, and he didnt just want land, he wanted Germany to have a good reputation!

[Feanorian]

Hitler also wished to kill everyone who was not part of the perfect Arian(Aryan?) race. Feanor never had a desire to kill millions of Dwarves(example:D) because they werent perfect in his opinion.

[Celebthôl]

exactly, they arent that similar.

[Inderjit S]

He wouldn't have drove all the Noldo into ME, and war with Melkor, and made them look bad in front of all the Eldalie if some of the Noldo had just stood up to him on Tirion

Drove them there? The Noldor were already restless as it was, and if you hadn't noticed Finarfin DID stand up to him, and ending up leading a small force of the Noldor to Tirion.

Visions he would conjure of the hearts of the mighty realms they might rule at their own will, in power and freedom in the East... HoME 10; Of the Silmarils

Here we can see that Melkor's lies had been spread among the Noldor.

In him she percieved a darkness that she hated and feared, though she did not feel the shadow had fallen on all the Noldor, and upon her own... Of Galadriel and Celeborn; U.T

Here is why Galadriel hated Feanor, though she couldn't see that all the Noldor were tainted.

Also, Quendi and Eldar, hoME 11, mentions that the Noldor sometimes considered the Teleri to be Avari at heart, but the Vanyar thought the same about the Noldor. So it is questionable as to whether Aman was 'suitable' to the Noldor.

Therfore when Finarfin spoke again for heed and delay, a great shout went up 'Nay let us be gone!' The Published Silmarillion; Of the flight of the Noldor.

and the Wars of Wrath plundered Belriand because of Hitler's and Feanors greed for land and jewels.

Plundered Beleriand? More like SAVED it and M-E.

...we shall see that ther heroic Noldor were the best possible weapon at which to keep Morgoth at bay, virtually besieged...frenzy of nihillistic destruction...

The War of Wrath was the one undertaken by the Valinorean forces and the War of the Jewels the one by the Noldor/Sindar/Edain, btw.

If Feanor hadn't took the Silmarills to Foremenos,

The were his to take. What do you want him to do? Hand them over to the treacherous Valar, or his scheming brothers in Tirion or to those prissy Vanyar....:p

[BlackCaptain]

Hmm... what I meant to say about standing up to Hitler and Feanor, is all of the people, or the majority. We had a guest speaker who was at a concentration camp at our school the other day, and she said that the Holocaust happened because the Germans didnt do anything to stop them. They just let the fire burn.

I'm not saying that they're 100% the same, I'm just pointing out thier simalarities.

Im also not denying the unrest in the Noldorians hearts. Feanor just was the leader that they needed to go to ME. They wouldnt have gone leaderless. Hitler also was the last straw on the camel. The Germans prior to WWII were dismayed that they were so objectified in the treaty of Versailes. They couldn't have made war on Europe if they were leaderless.

I myself think that they are very simalar, but I'm not trying to say they are exactly the same; rather pointing out the simalarities.

[BlackCaptain]

And saved Belriand? Belriand was completelyl drowned after the Wars of Wrath. Perhaps you mean saved from complete domination by Melkor.

[Maedhros]

I myself think that they are very simalar, but I'm not trying to say they are exactly the same; rather pointing out the simalarities.
I have to say that I'm pretty disgusted with this comparison. To compare the mightiest of the Children of Ilúvatar with Hitler is downright silly.
Fëanor had no rival in his brilliance, hence he made the Silmarils and he invented the alphabet used by the Eldar. He fought on to the end with Balrogs, he wouldn't commit suicide.

[Feanorian]

I have to say that I'm pretty disgusted with this comparison. To compare the mightiest of the Children of Ilúvatar with Hitler is downright silly.

Fëanor had no rival in his brilliance, hence he made the Silmarils and he invented the alphabet used by the Eldar. He fought on to the end with Balrogs, he wouldn't commit suicide.

I totally agree with this. Hitler was a cowardice, crazy, evil man. Think about it, Hitler took advantage of a country that was already anti-Europe he just invaded people and killed them off. Feanor was the son of the King who went to fight for the greatest creations besides the world itself, which were stolen. His Father was killed in his own house, everyone should have taken up the battle against Melkor not just Feanor.

[Inderjit S]

And saved Belriand? Belriand was completelyl drowned after the Wars of Wrath. Perhaps you mean saved from complete domination by Melkor.

1. It is Beleriand.

2. How was it completely drowned? HoME 7 and U.T tells us how Himling, the small island close to M-E was a remnant of Himring the fortress of Maedhros and that Tar-nu-Fuin, the forest of Northern Dorthonion still survived, and of course the parts of Ossiriand and Thargelion, that were later to become Harlindon and Forlindon.

3. Feanor had NOTHING to do with the drowning of Beleriand. That was due to the excessive force used by the Valinorean army under Eonwe. Morgoth was going to destroy and desecrete Beleriand anyway, as well as all of M-E if it wasn't for Feanors heroic decision to go after him, so at least it prospered for some five hundred years.

[Ithrynluin]

I see where you would draw this comparison from, though I don't think it's really fair to make it. Hitler and Fëanor were very similar in their determination, and the fact that they were guilty of killing people - though the difference here is enormous. And the similarities end right about here.

[Inderjit S]

They were both also both brilliant public speakers. That's the only similarity that I can draw.

[BlackCaptain]

I guess that you are all missing my point...

Hitler and Feanor are simalar in the fact that they both were incredibly jealous, and had some simalarities in convincing people. That was just a broad statement of course, but none-the-less it is to the point.

[Inderjit S]

Hitler and Feanor are simalar in the fact that they both were incredibly jealous,

They were incredibly jealous? Elaborate....

[BlackCaptain]

Feanor wanted his Silmarills so badly that he drove the majority of the Noldor to Middle Earth.

Hitler was so jealous for more land, that he drove all of Europe into the most devastating war in history.

[Inderjit S]

Feanor wanted his Silmarills so badly that he drove the majority of the Noldor to Middle Earth

No-He wanted REVENGE as well, for his father who he loved more then the Silmarils. He didn't drive no one nowhere, they went of their own free will. Is it his fault they were swayed by his words?

Hitler was so jealous for more land, that he drove all of Europe into the most devastating war in history.

Hitler was jealous for more lands? Huh? How can you be 'jealous for more lands'? Yes he wanted more land, or 'Living space' (I think the Germanic form is Lebesraum?), but a lot of this was due to the German view of Aryan supremacy, which had been existent since the 'Second Reich'.

[Eriol]

I agree that the only similarity lies in their rhetoric abilities. Hitler was "a little ignoramus", in Tolkien's words -- that he was so successful in swaying the will of the German nation shows how bereaved they were for decades before Hitler appeared on the scene (I could make the case that this was a continuing process that began with Hegel, 18th century). The Germans were a confused nation, angered because of defeat but most important astonished that their view of the world was shattered in the Great War. They were in a state of bereavement.

Fëanor, on the other hand, was a genius, the most gifted of the children of Ilúvatar. The Noldor followed him with eyes wide open, both because of his personal prowess but also because they believed in his cause and in their power to defeat Morgoth. Hubris, perhaps, but a different thing than what happened with the Germans in the 2nd World War.

(The analogy would be better if made with the Great War, World War I, because that war was surely motivated by arrogance from everybody involved, including the people of all countries -- WW2 was motivated by public apathy).