Aldarion-Erendis Debate. Judging

[Gothmog]

I have been asked to open the Judging thread for this debate.

It was to have been a Team debate however, it is now a question of Either Lhunithiliel or Beleg_strongbow.

The Judges are:

Gothmog
Gate7ole
Anamatar IV

There is no poll but any who wish to post their views are welcome. The debate can be read Here (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10789)

I will post my judgement after I have read through it a couple of times. :)

[Anamatar IV]

Well, since you guys have already had to read through each other’s long posts I won’t make you read through another one with my judging.;)

Both Beleg and Lhun debated wonderfully. There we no “nothing” posts. Every post had a point and delivered it clearly.

Beleg did a good job showing that Aldarion, being a king’s heir, should have been more concerned with his country rather than the Sea. He also presented well how much Erendis tried to please Aldarion to save their marriage. He backed up his arguments with fitting quotes but some times he used quotes that, well, to be blunt, meant the same things.

Lhun did an awesome job of proving that Aldarion’s actions could be justified by the times. She also presented well that Erendis either tried too little to do things or too much (like trying to change Aldarion.)

As for countering each other, I didn’t see a lot of it until the last few arguments (I won’t say posts :D). But when they came, they came! The counters were very good…though I would have liked to see more countering of the counters if you get my meaning.:)

AS for the debate itself, it was very well organized. Each debater clearly pointed out and emphasized important bits and this is what I liked most among the other aspects of organization.

Now as for my vote…Lhun did more of a job convincing me that Erendis basically couldn’t cope with Aldarion’s ways…but Beleg proved to me more that it was Aldarion’s ways that were to blame. So Beleg, you get my vote.

Again, a great debate you guys!

[Beleg]

Well it's not my place to post here, but i want to thank Lhun for agreeing to debate with me, when the odds were that the debate might be canceled. Thank you so much and thanks to the judges also for taking the time to read and assess the debate. Thank you all. My First Online Tolkien debate was a great experience for me. :)

[Gothmog]

I am sorry to have taken so long to give my judgement. This has been a most difficult matter to decide upon. Both debaters have given very good arguments for their side and countered the points of the other well.

To look at the debate in detail would result in a post far too long even for such verbose combatants as we have in Lhunithiliel and Beleg_strongbow.:cool: Each however showed that there was great fault, Beleg showed that Aldarion was overly enamoured of the sea and far too proud to accept any council that went against his own view, even that of the most significant person in the world in which he lived, namely, His Father, The King. In answer to this Lhunithiliel showed that Erendis was equally proud and shared much of the guilt for what befell.

So it comes to who I felt best put forward their argument. When I first read through the debate I was inclined to agree with Beleg. But on re-reading, I found that Lhun's views were very compelling. Aldarion made mistakes at the beginning of their relationship but was honest about the way he felt about the sea. Erendis would not accept this and tried to change him in ways that would make him someone other than he could be.

So, I find that by a very narrow margin, Luhnithiliel was the more convincing and therefore gets my vote.

My congratulations to both. You have made of this a wonderful debate that was a pleasure (even though a painful one:p ) to read and judge. I look forward to reading your posts in future debates.

[Lhunithiliel]

Thanks to both judges that so far have taken the trouble to read through the debate!
Poor Gate!
To know that your vote is decisive!!!!!!! ;) :D

Gothmog: You have made of this a wonderful debate that was a pleasure (even though a painful one ) to read and judge.
Why, Lord Balrog?! Why painful?! ;)

[gate7ole]

Let me congratulate the two opponents of the debate, since I believe they dealt with the topic in a complete and thorough way. It’s among the best covered debates I have even participated or judged.
Both Beleg and Lhun showed with their arguments a clear intention to blame almost completely the other part, which made their arguments sometimes seem too far-fetched, ignoring the obvious that they were both wrong. This is probably acceptable in a debate though.
Especially Beleg was better in his last post, while Lhun having exhausted her arguments early, she simply repeated herself. Lhun’s good point was –in my opinion- the fact that Erendis knew whom she was marrying and that she loved an ideal –for her- version of Aldarion and not Aldarion himself, which Beleg did not confront. On the other hand, Beleg faced Lhun’s argument about Aldarion’s duty with success, pointing that Aldarion was not the normal king. Beleg’s good point was the emphasis on Aldarion’s lack of a stable thesis on the subject of his love towards Erendis, showing a weak man concerning emotions.
Up till now, the score was even. Each debater had his/her share of good and bad points. The case that made the final difference was that of love. Both of them (Aldarion and Erendis) where equally guilty for not adopting their love into the conditions. Each one of the debaters used the matter of love eloquently, but I think Lhun was better here. I could quote her last posts for this, but I don’t think it’s necessary.
Judging from this, I will give my vote to Lhunithiliel. (Sorry Beleg! Women know the matter of love better than us :) ).
For the end, I want to congratulate both of them, but mostly Beleg, because this was his first debate and he surprised me with his skills, while Lhun is known for them :D .

[Beleg]

Congragulations Lhun! You debated very Nicely and Deserved your win! A final thanks also to the judges who spent time and effort in going through the debate.

[Lhunithiliel]

Thanks very much to the judges for liking our work!

Beleg, believe me, you were an excelelnt opponent and I'm looking forward to meeting you again some other time in a debate! :D