Elves>Men>Orcs - The three "faces" of mankind?

[Lhunithiliel]

Could it be?! :rolleyes:

Could these three races be in fact some form of Tolkien's vision of mankind - from purity and innocence >> through knowledge >> to the ugliness of people's use of that knowledge >> leading to destruction of moral values >> destruction of creativity >> in one word, leading to d e s t r u c t i o n ?

I don't know.. perhaps this is a strongly "vague" idea, but when I think of these three races, having so much in common in their roots ... it looks possible... they could be envisaged as the "faces" of mankind.

*****
Poor Tolkien!

But I guess that's the doom of every great author - to be analysed by amateurs... :p
********

Yet, what do you think of this?

[Aulë]

Grrr,
Dwarves are always forgotten. :)

But it's a good theory, though I'd think it was more of a coincidence than anything.

[Eriol]

I think you have something there, but not an 'evolutionary scheme' in which we are slowly turning into Orcs :eek:.

I think the three races can be seen in today's mankind. There are people with Orcish mentality, unfortunately. People with 'mannish' mentality -- longing for an unseen and undefinable good, striving, always. They are the vast majority.

In fact, only 'elvish' mentality -- that is, contentment with the earth and acceptance of fate -- is lacking. But 'Elves' are supposed to be one face of mankind that is never prevalent, the purely artistic face that contemplates and creates beauty for its own sake.

I'm way over my head here :confused: .

As I see it, we have 'Elvish' moments, but not 'elvish' personality. The longing is too great for that.

As for Dwarves... they came from stone! what did you expect?

;)

I always thought the line "slow to make friends, quick to make enemies" as the definition of Dwarvish character. Sure we see that in mankind, too.

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Eriol
I think you have something there, but not an 'evolutionary scheme' in which we are slowly turning into Orcs :eek:.
Aren't we?! :rolleyes:

I think the three races can be seen in today's mankind. There are people with Orcish mentality, unfortunately. People with 'mannish' mentality -- longing for an unseen and undefinable good, striving, always. They are the vast majority.

In fact, only 'elvish' mentality -- that is, contentment with the earth and acceptance of fate -- is lacking. But 'Elves' are supposed to be one face of mankind that is never prevalent, the purely artistic face that contemplates and creates beauty for its own sake.
That's a comforting theory, you know... I'd be willing to accept it
I however wonder, did Tolkien think of them as the three "faces" mankind has or...some unwanted and ugly process of its evolution.
Did he ever comment on that? Has anyone read sth. about it?

As I see it, we have 'Elvish' moments, but not 'elvish' personality. The longing is too great for that.
I guess these come more and more rarely in our everyday life...
So, could it be that he wanted to remind us what perfect and high-spirit creature a human can be?...

Boy, now I have my head way too .... misty! ;) :D

[Finduilas]

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel

That's a comforting theory, you know... I'd be willing to accept it
I however wonder, did Tolkien think of them as the three "faces" mankind has or...some unwanted and ugly process of its evolution.
Did he ever comment on that? Has anyone read sth. about it?


I guess these come more and more rarely in our everyday life...
So, could it be that he wanted to remind us what perfect and high-spirit creature a human can be?...

Boy, now I have my head way too .... misty! ;) :D

I believe that if Tolkien has really had something in mind by this 'coincidence' it is probably his approach towards man's personality, dreams, etc. He has been disappointed by many people during his entire life and thus he has gained a lot of experience and knowledge concerning us. I reckon that this negative 'development' of man's personality is more of a personal oppinion and disappointment than a general conception.

[Lúthien Séregon]

Where would the hobbits fit in with these "faces"? I would think they would be those content to leave a simple life with complication, but I doubt that this fits in with any comparison that can be drawn between Tolkien's characters and humankind.
And don't forget Ents...

[Marah Seph]

It is a fact that things keep getting worse. I do not say that we commit worse crimes, for I don't believe there is such a thing, but that we simply are doing more of those evil things.
As for it being the "faces" of mankind, I think that is more likely. We've allways had our differences. And I do believe that the elfish quality has been dissapearing.. but some of the elfish qualities remain. Such as the arrogance. I do believe that the elves are arrogant.. been livin too long with us stupid humans! :D
I also argee that they represent some form of the human race, and tolkien's view. Whenever a writter writes, he can not help but include something of what he thinks of what is going on around him. It is the way we are, we wan't everyone to know our opinion. Why do you think that these boards work so well?

[Arvedui]

I haven't seen Tolkien writing anything on this matter, although he uses words like 'orc-crowd' on a couple of occations.

So perhaps it could be that Elves & Men & Orcs show three faces of mankind, but I think that this is not intentional by Tolkien. I guess that he just took some kinds of behaviour, and refined them into describing the various peoples in a way that would make it easier for the reader to relate to.

[Thorondor_]

As one saying goes, no analogy is completely false, neither is it completely true.
I think that humans are the most complex beings, having the capacity either to become as great as the elves or as low as the orcs.

[Ingwë]

As one saying goes, no analogy is completely false, neither is it completely true.That's true.
I think that we must ask the questin 'Why do we create God, elves, orcs, etc.' Because we want to explain the unexplained! We thing it is God. Probably the ancient people have created other races because they saw differences in the Men. Some were Evil, some people weren't. Evil are the Orcs, good are the Elves (they're fair :) ). However, I don't think that Tolkien thought about 3 races of mankind. Probably the ancient people thought about that. He used the mythology.

[Barliman Butterbur]

I think you have something there, but not an 'evolutionary scheme' in which we are slowly turning into Orcs :eek:.

I think the three races can be seen in today's mankind. There are people with Orcish mentality, unfortunately. People with 'mannish' mentality -- longing for an unseen and undefinable good, striving, always. They are the vast majority.

In fact, only 'elvish' mentality -- that is, contentment with the earth and acceptance of fate -- is lacking. But 'Elves' are supposed to be one face of mankind that is never prevalent, the purely artistic face that contemplates and creates beauty for its own sake.

I'm way over my head here :confused: .

As I see it, we have 'Elvish' moments, but not 'elvish' personality. The longing is too great for that.

As for Dwarves... they came from stone! what did you expect?

;)

I always thought the line "slow to make friends, quick to make enemies" as the definition of Dwarvish character. Sure we see that in mankind, too.

And...what of HOBBITS?

Barley

[Arvedui]

I believe that Hobbits represent much of how Tolkien would like Man to act in accordance with nature. Hobbits were living off the land, using Mother Nature, but not exploiting it.