The Guild Of Christians

[Samwise_hero]

This is a guild for all those Christians out there wishing to congregate and talk about all different things. So if you're a Christian and want to talk, welcome.

[Lifeling]

I'm in!

[Bethelarien]

Count me in as well.

[FREEDOM!]

Ditto.:D

[Jesse]

Count me in! What do you all think of the Jesus film? Have any of you ever seen it??

[Samwise_hero]

There are more movies about Jesus than there are James Bond movies. Which one do you mean? =)
By the way to all of you Welcome! It feels so good to know that there are a lot more of us out there than i originally thought! =)

[FREEDOM!]

I've never actually been able to sit through any of the Jesus films!

[Elendil3119]

I'm here too! What should we discuss?

[Lifeling]

I think the best Jesus Movie would be the Visual Bible's Matthew... it's pretty cool, it does the story word for word from the NIV.

[Jesse]

There's a new Jesus film coming out with Mel Brooks. I forgot the title. I want to see it!:)

[24framesasecond]

Are you positive your not confusing names? I know there is a Mel Gibson movie about Christ, cause i doubt Brooks would do one, being a Jew and all.
The Gibson one is going to be a staunch Catholic version portraying the last 12 hours of our Lord. Dialogue will be in Aramaic, Latin, Greek and some Hebrew (i think). REALLY COOL!!!

[24framesasecond]

Most of the "Jesus films" aren't that good.
I am hopeful of Gibson, even though he is a vehement Roman Catholic (some issues with that), but hey, him and his like 13 odd kids and his wife are all about Christ, so YAY for that.

Hey, thanks for starting this.

[24framesasecond]

You know, a great convo that i haven't seen on this site yet is parallels between Bible and Tolkien's work. He stole like crazy. So many great allegories and such. After all, T was a Christian and was compadre with Lewis.

[Jesse]

24framesasecond,
Just a reminder: Don't double-post, or triple-post (like you did). It makes people think you're only posting to increase your post count. Which I hope that's not why you joined TheTolkienForum.
I double-posted once and got told by a mod that I can't. I don't want to see that happen to you. Welcome to TheTolkienForum by the way!

[Bethelarien]

it does the story word for word from the NIV.

Speaking of the NIV, I don't know (maybe I'm just crazy), but I really don't like the NIV. Does anybody else feel that way, or is it just me?

[Lifeling]

I prefer the amplified (Which is the best bible translation) But I think that the NIV is good.

[Elendil3119]

I think that the best translation of the Bible depends mostly on its accuracy. The King James Version, although hard to read, was translated extremely accuractely and preserves the poetry and beauty of the original languages. Some of the better modern translations include the NASB, ESV, and the NKJV. The NIV is easy to read, but it has very poor translations in areas, which often affects the theological meaning.
Speaking of the NIV, I don't know (maybe I'm just crazy), but I really don't like the NIV. Does anybody else feel that way, or is it just me?
I don't like the NIV mostly because of theological issues, but I think its a great translation for younger kids because its so easy to read. :)

[Feanorian]

My Church switched over from NIV to ESV, I really like the ESV translation. By the way can I join?

[Jesse]

Question for the one who founded this guild:

Since this is the guild of Christians....does that mean we can post prayer requests here??

[Samwise_hero]

Feel free to post all the prayer requests you like. Anyone is quite welcome to if they want to. I'm sure no one else will mind.

By the way, anyone is welcome to join as long as they're christian's or interested in joining the faith. But please no critics this is a thread for those of us who believe or want to.

[FREEDOM!]

I really like the NIV, I don't know much about some of those other versions. Could someone tell me about these other versions?

[HLGStrider]

Boogie!

You can use my prayer request thread too. . .can't let it get neglected. . .that would be sad (It's in member announcements. A lot of you are already on it.).

I read New King James but most churches tend to be on NIV in my town.

[Samwise_hero]

Elgee! Long time no hear! Lol!
i read the NIV and that's all i've had my whole life. it puts things into perspective for my limited understanding in life. =)
The pastor at my church has a different version, it's really old speach and i don't know what it is. We have all different version throughout the cvhurch we all adapt somehow.

[HLGStrider]

I don't know how you could have missed me. . .I'm everywhere! ;)

He he . . .

[Samwise_hero]

i think i haven't seen you Elgee coz i haven't been to many other parts of TTF lately. I don't get on here too often anymore. It sux

[FREEDOM!]

Could someone help me explain something to Celebthôl, in Stuff And Bother there is a thread entitled Free Will and (God), or something like that, Please help.

[Celebthôl]

sure what do you want explaining?

[HLGStrider]

I think he was asking us to post an explanation of the Christian view on your thread about free will which he wanted there but didn't think he could do it himself.

[Jesse]

Please pray for my mom. She had a test where the doctors put a needle in her back and now she's asleep. Probably will be all night and all day tomorrow. :( She thinks she'll be ready to go to Church by Sunday, but I doubt it. Last time they did this, she wasn't well enough to go anywhere by Sunday. :( :(

[Jesse]

Please pray for my mom. She had a test where the doctors put a needle in her back and now she's asleep. Probably will be all night and all day tomorrow. :( She thinks she'll be ready to go to Church by Sunday, but I doubt it. Last time they did this, she wasn't well enough to go anywhere by Sunday. :( :(

[Feanorian]

Please pray for my mom. She had a test where the doctors put a needle in her back and now she's asleep. Probably will be all night and all day tomorrow. She thinks she'll be ready to go to Church by Sunday, but I doubt it. Last time they did this, she wasn't well enough to go anywhere by Sunday.

Well make sure she doesnt get too upset about missing one Sunday(not that anyone should want to:rolleyes: ) but God wont love her any less

Btw, while your at it could you please pray for my grandfather who is having tests done on his heart and my sister who just had a baby girl through c-section. Thanks.

[Gandalf_White]

hey can I join. This is a really cool guild.
Could you pray for me. Lately I have been having a lot of trouble with stress. Thanks!;)

[Jesse]

Gandalf_White,
Suggestions on how to cope with stress:

1.) Take a long bath

2.) Be online (It works for me daily!)

3.) Read a good book


I just said a prayer for you. May Christ calm your fears and nerves.:)

[Lossengondiel]

Hi all!

Can I join you here?

[HLGStrider]

I'm sure you can. . .welcome and all that. . .

[Samwise_hero]

Welcome all new comers
Do you reckon we could set up a time where we can all be online and pray for all these people at the same time. Kind of like a mass pray. Just put down your prayer requests here or in Elgee's thread and we can all pray at the same time. Giving our hearts God.
I request that we do it on a Sunday. What do you guys and gals think?

[Lossengondiel]

I think that would be a great idea but we should probably set it up a couple weeks before to give time to people to know when they should get on

[Jesse]

I second the motion of having all of us get on at the same time!

[Samwise_hero]

Cool. I think it should be set about a month in advance so it gives people the time to check it out. Say June sometime. i have know idea what date though.

[EllethBronwe]

I am so in on this! And Gandalf_White I love your signature. Reliant K rocks!!! That's one of my favorite songs.

[Jesse]

So...when will we all get together then??

[Samwise_hero]

Say June the 22nd 2pm.
(Australian Eastern Standard Time that is, i don't know when it is anywhere else)
Yea, nay?

[Jesse]

That is excellent! I will definetly be here then!

[EllethBronwe]

Does anyone know when that is in Central Standard time USA?

[BranMuffin]

AWESOME THREAD!

A LITTLE DIFFERENT APPROACH, SINCE I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THAT IS WHERE I LIVE (EASTERN STANDARD USA), I SUGGEST MAYBE WE HAVE IT AT 2:OO WHERE EVER YOU ARE THAT WAY IT WOULD BE LIKE A CONTINUOUS PRAYER FOR PROBABLY A FULL DAY. EITHER WAY IS FINE BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT TIME THAT WOULD BE HERE IF WE DO PRAY ALL AT ONCE.

[Samwise_hero]

I'll see if i can find out some times for you. i've got them in a diary somewhere.

[Flame of Anor]

Samwise_hero, you have all ready said that anyone is free to join that is interested in the Christian faith or is all ready a part of it. so count me in.

I know that where i live it is -8:00 from GMT(Greenwich Mean Time) If you go to this site (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/) you can see what time it is anywhere in the world. It is a 5 hour difference between where i live and Sydney, AU. So someone living in Central US, it will be about a 7 hour difference.

I thought BranMuffin's idea of all getting on here at 2pm their time would be a cool idea because then we could have like a day of prayer like he said. spiffy idea.

-Flame

BTW, i use the NKJV Bible. I figure the most popular versions are NIV and KJV and i can follow along with either one this way :D

[Samwise_hero]

It's the peoples choice whether to all pray at their 2pm or the assorted times. Feel free to do it whichever way you prefer because a full day of prayer does sound like a really good idea.
By the way welcome Flame of Anor make yourself at home and thankyou for coming and joining us. =)

[EllethBronwe]

In the mean time can we still post prayer requests on here. I'm taking my driver's test tomorrow and I really want to pass. I'm very anxious and nervous so I could really use some prayers. Also please pray that it doesn't rain where I am at tomorrow. Thank you.

[FREEDOM!]

Sorry Guys, I can't get on that day at all.
Actually I will be goone for the rest of june, starting the 9th.

[Jesse]

Come to think of it, that won't work for me either. I have my own appointments to keep. I'm sorry all, but I fear I will just be on when I'm on. Know what I mean?

[EllethBronwe]

I can't be here either, I have a bridal shower for my friend that day.

[Samwise_hero]

Is there a time that will work for everyone that we can find? I just suggested that time because it was on the top of my head.
By the way post all the requests you want! But don't forget Elgee's thread though! Ok

[FREEDOM!]

What should Christians think about bands like Evanesence, and movies like The Matrix, and Matrix Reloaded?

I really like the band Evanesence, but one of the dudes said the F word, and that's not such a great thing. Everyone screw up once in a while, i'll admit it i've said the F word before.

And what about movies like THe Matrix and Matrix Reloaded?
They are full of New Ageism, should we still like them?

[HLGStrider]

Never seen them. I know Christians who have. I know Christians who don't like them. No opinion.

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by Samwise_hero
Is there a time that will work for everyone that we can find? I just suggested that time because it was on the top of my head.
By the way post all the requests you want! But don't forget Elgee's thread though! Ok
DOES IT MATTER WHAT TIME? IF YOU PRAY ANY TIME DURING THE DAY ITS 2:00 SOMEWHERE, JUST KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHERS PRAYING ALONGSIDE YOU.

[Firnnovien]

"Also, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about something and pray for it, it will be done for you by my Father in Heaven. This is true because if two or three people come together in my name, I am there with them." Matthew 18:19-20
These verses came to me as I was reading this thread, and I thought I should post them. By the way, I read them from the New Century Version.

Also, I think that Evanescence are a good band, but some of the songs are a bit depressing, but I think that there is hope through their songs.

Firnnovien

[EllethBronwe]

Certain denominations will say certain things about what is okay and what is not. The Bible says to think about things that are pure, noble, and true. The way I interpret this is as long as you don't start speaking the way they do in the songs it's fine. Watch YOUR actions. As for the Matrix, I love it. If you like it I think you are fine to watch and listen to those things. Just remember to keep a pure heart.

[FREEDOM!]

Ya, I agree.

What about like Eminem?

[Eliot]

Hey, can I join?

Originally posted by FREEDOM!
What about like Eminem?

Well, if you're a true Christian, you're not supposed to be listening to that type of music. One question: assuming you listen to Eminem, do you feel ashamed when you listen to his music? Because if not, that shows that you're getting truly comfortable with the worlds ways.

[Flame of Anor]

The Bible states that everything is permissable but no all things are beneficial. Eliot, I would not say that a Christian is not supposed to listen to that sort of music. That, to me is being religious. The Bible doesn't say what we are and what we aren't supposed to listen to. I will not tell anyone not to listen to a certain type of music. Rather, i would ask, "Does listening to this music edify you? Does it uplift your spirit? Does it bring you to a closer understanding to who God is and does it bring you to a closer relationship with Him?"

Eliot, I am not trying to bash your beliefs or anything of the sort, i am just trying to give a different perspective upon things.

Personally, anything that isn't Christian will usually grate on my nerves and i can't stand it for too long and i will shut it off or leave the place where it is being played. Just some of my thoughts. God Bless

-Flame

[HLGStrider]

I've never listened to it, but from what I heard, that sort of stuff shouldn't really be listened to by anyone. There has to be something better.

[Eliot]

1 John 2:15

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."


It's saying that if what you're doing for entertainment (or anything else) looks just like the worlds sin, then it's wrong. Quite easy to interpet. Like, if an unsaved person can't tell if you're a Christian or not, then, um, you need some help, seriously. You're supposed you look, and act a LOT differently from the world.

There you go. That's why you shouldn't listen to whatever weird music you listen to.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by EllethBronwe
Certain denominations will say certain things about what is okay and what is not. The Bible says to think about things that are pure, noble, and true. The way I interpret this is as long as you don't start speaking the way they do in the songs it's fine. Watch YOUR actions. As for the Matrix, I love it. If you like it I think you are fine to watch and listen to those things. Just remember to keep a pure heart.

Hmmm. I can't say that I agree with that. To take that verse the way you are sounds more to me like compromising so we can do and watch whatever we want. That verse says, "whatever things ARE just and pure (etc.) think on THESE things." It doesn't say anything about thinking about whatever we want, as long as our heart is pure.

Does that mean that if I can watch pornography and people fornicating on screen and and can "keep a pure heart", that it is okay? The Bible also says, "By beholding we become changed". If all we put in is garbage, all that will come out will be garbage. What we see affects us. Maybe a little, maybe a lot. Maybe sooner, maybe later. Hence, the reason why the Bible counsels us to fill our minds and spirits with positive things.

[Elendil3119]

I am loth to get in a debate about music here, because I've been in sooo many before. I would encourage anyone who is interested in the topic of permissable music to check out this (http://avlux.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) debate.

Hence, the reason why the Bible counsels us to fill our minds and spirits with positive things.
Like heavy metal? Sorry, I couldn't help it...;) :D

[Thorin]

By Thorin Hence, the reason why the Bible counsels us to fill our minds and spirits with positive things.
Originally posted by Elendil3119
Like heavy metal? Sorry, I couldn't help it...;) :D

Alright...You got me there. :D But I don't listen to it anymore on a regular basis. I burned about 15 songs of old that I used to like on one CD and that is all I listen to (very infrequently as well). And even then, I am selective about what I listen to. Vulgar language, sex and violence are not in the songs I listen to now (well, except for maybe 2 songs. :rolleyes: ) If it means anything, Nicko McBrain, the drummer for Iron Maiden is a born again Christian....Hmmm.

I do feel that it is very important that musicians are responsible for the music they put out. If the music and lyrics didn't mean anything, there wouldn't be such a thing as fans. Hence, there must be some accountability for those media stars who garner such a large fan base. For a musician to say, "I'll sing about whatever I want. If anyone acts stupid because of it, it is not my fault", is extremely naive and very irresponsible.

[Jesse]

If you like music, join the Music Lover's Guild! Sorry, just had to say that! So...what discussion are we talking about now??

[BranMuffin]

HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS MOVIE? IT IS VERY INFORMATIVE ON WHAT SOME FEEL SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T BE WATCHED FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE. EVEN SHOWED THE VERSES QUOTED IN PREVIOUS POSTS. I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GET IT, BUT IF YOU CAN WATCH IT.
I PERSONALLY DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYTHING THAT IS NOT CHRISTIAN, BECAUSE ANYTHING YOU LISTEN TO THAT IS WORLDLY HAS A MATCH THAT IS CHRISTIAN. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME THAT MATCH WORLDLY BANDS I CAN PROBABLY TELL YOU SOME DECENT ONES, BUT I DON'T KNOW MUCH RAP OR POP MUSIC. MOSTLY ROCK, ALTERNATIVE, HEAVY METAL, AND HARDCORE TYPE MUSIC IS WHAT I LISTEN TO. I LIKE ALL TYPES OF MUSIC THOUGH(WELL MAYBE EXCEPT FOR RAP). PM ME IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW SOME GOOD BANDS.

[HLGStrider]

Being slightly tone death, I listen to music mainly for the words, so that means I listen to mostly Christian music.

[Lifeling]

Personnaly I think the music you listen to is between you and God... Dor instance I like alot of secular music.... 'Closing Time' by semicsonic.... 'Hemorage' by fuel.... 'Be Like That' by three doors down.... I can listen to these without having pangs in my conscience, songs that do that, I dont listen to... I will not listen to eminem, I wont listen to music that drags me into sin.... Closing time has referenses to drinking, but as many times as I listen to that song I dont believe it will drag me into sin... Thats how I judge music... if you can and have always been able to listen to a song without having a check in your consience about it, then It is not a bad thing...
I like christian music too...
Third Day
Caedmon's Call
Gate called Beautiful
Michael W Smith
I need to get blinside's CD

[BranMuffin]

I need to get blinside's CD
Ooooo, I got to see them in concert about two months ago.

[Samwise_hero]

Does anyone here like the Paul Colman Trio?? I luv 'em! i got their 'New Map Of The World' fo my birthday last year. My favouries would have to be Africa and Turn.

[Eliot]

Originally posted by Flame of Anor
The Bible states that everything is permissable but no all things are beneficial.

So, do you have any evidence to back that up, or are you just desperate for an excuse? Just curious, no offense.

Originally posted by Flame of Anor
Eliot, I would not say that a Christian is not supposed to listen to that sort of music. That, to me is being religious.

But, aren't we "religious" already? If we're part of Christianity, then we're religious.

Originally posted by Flame of Anor
The Bible doesn't say what we are and what we aren't supposed to listen to.

Well, it does say that we're supposed to sing praise to God. But, if it (the music you listen to, and sing) looks JUST like the worlds wicked ways, then it's sin. Read 1 John 2:15 again and again, and again. Soak it in. Really think about it.

Originally posted by Flame of Anor
Eliot, I am not trying to bash your beliefs or anything of the sort, i am just trying to give a different perspective upon things.

I know. Neither am I.

[Jesse]

I feel we are called to listen to Christian music. Remember...Jesus Christ said..."Love not the things of this world".

[Inderjit S]

I feel we are called to listen to Christian music. Remember...Jesus Christ said..."Love not the things of this world

Is Nelly a Christian musician? What about that Marilyn Manson fellow?

[HLGStrider]

I wouldn't listen to M. Mansen even if I liked that sort of music because he has been known to spend parts of his concerts bashing the Bible and Christianity. Going to one of his concerts would be like an African American going to watch a White Supermisist band.

The verse Flame was paraphrasing, Eliot was 1 Corinthians 6:12, one of my favorites.
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Helpful can also be transalated profitable according to the margin notes. I'm using NKJ at the moment. Christians are instructed to think upon good, pure things, I suppose because such as you think, therefore you are. Some people can listen to music without thinking about it (heck, I can't understand half of what the Newsboys are saying, and I still listen to them). Also, some bands can have good songs mixed in with bad songs, and occassionally you will hear a heartfelt cry for "something more" from a secular band. . .some Kansas was like that in later days, according to my dad (I only know one Kansas song), and a Kansas musician later went Christian (in music. I don't know if he already was one spiritually).

The thing is about that verse, Jesse, is what constitutes the things of this world? Just about everything. That verse is not telling us not to listen to music that isn't Christian anymore than it is telling us not to eat food not cooked by a Christian (or even meat offered to idols). It's telling us not to love the things of this world (in other words become so devoted to them that they come between you in God or that you will sacrifice your morals to get them).

[Samwise_hero]

For years i was into bands like the Backstreet Boys and all those pop artists but about 2 years ago i started getting sick of listening to them singing about broken hearts and all that stuff so therefore i kinda went off music.
last year when i was given my PC3 CD i started listening to that CD 5 times a day just so i could hear them praising God. Since then i rarely listen to any other music unless it's my LOTR CDs and only three of the songs on the two CDs have words in english so...
As to M. Manson and peeps like that, they only bash Christians and our music because we with God are more powerful than he and Satan ever will be. When God is with us, who can stand against us??? No one.
I agree that we should be avoiding that kind of music eventhough sometimes we don't even think it's making a difference in our lives. but then one day we swear and think oh well that wasn't too bad and then the general concepts they feed you through the songs like immorality don't seem that bad anymore. i've seen it happen. And if we listen to satanic based music, how do we think of pure things?
i know i'm like all over the place talking about different stuff here but i guess i was just writing what came to mind.
So guys and gals.....lada
Oh and always remember Phil 4:13

[24framesasecond]

very true.
"garbage in garbage out"
i listen to secular music, but quickly balk when i hear a GD, or someone bashing christianity (usually occuring becase they don't understand or because they use the media spawned misinterpretations of Christ's teachings).

[HLGStrider]

I don't listen to music much. . .lately became addicted to conservative talk radio. . .he he. . .

[Flame of Anor]

LOL sounds like my brother. I usually listen to Christ centered groups. Like Newboys, DC Talk, etc. and i also like to listen to worship CD's.

-Flame

[HLGStrider]

I know your brother is on site, but I'm trying to remember which one. . .Galdor? No. . .One of the Isildurs? Never mind. . .tell me when I can know. . .I think Galdor was Dr. Ransom's brother. . .My brother joined up and got kicked off a few days later for bad behavior. . . :rolleyes: Never live that one down. . .

[Samwise_hero]

My siblings aren't into Tolkien and my kinda stuff so i'm safe. =) For now. It's just really hard for them to understand the stuff that i'm into because i'm so different to them. i think i take after my mum more, the intellectual side! lol!=)

[24framesasecond]

Maturity is a great divider; my siblings aren't into really qualitative stuff yet, they still love a lot of sappy-go-lucky stuff, but hey, they are young and are unfamiliar with certain things. Plus, they make it up by beig absolutely adorable and just a blast to hang out with.
THey just dedicated their lives to CHRIST about 6 months ago. YYYYYAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!! I was so happy for them, and i was really pleased that they had taken the first step into a relationship with their Saviour, Christ Jesus.

i dig a lot of secular music, but i really enJOY great gospel, christian rap, folk, rock, and blues, as well as a lot of charismatic praise and worship.

GOOOOOOODDDD stuff.

[FREEDOM!]

I don't listen to Eminem that much, he is a good singer tho.

But i do listen to some Metallica, now they are awesome!
sorry but i like them, i probably shouldn't tho.

[BranMuffin]

I don't get why people listen to degrading, perverse, and rebellious music when there is an alternative that uplifts, encourages, and edifies with the same music style.
Eminem is a terrible singer by the way, I've heard better moose calls.

[Inderjit S]

I don't get why people listen to degrading, perverse, and rebellious music when there is an alternative

Because they want to?

[Eliot]

Huh? Because they want to? Well, if they really love God (remember Inderjit, this a Christian guild), they shouldn't be listening to that trash.

[Jesse]

Hi all,
You can listen to whatever music you choose. I am not forcing any of you to listen to Christian music. In fact, I don't know if I even am a Christian. See, I believe in the Great Spirit. So for you Christians, pray for me. Pray that I get my beliefs straightened out. Thank you!:)

[Eliot]

What exactly is the Great Spirit? Just curious.

[HLGStrider]

Basically, the reason you wouldn't want to listen to those people, is they stand for something you don't stand for. . .Some people care what their music stands for. Others don't. . .with a few in betweens.
In general a lot of that music seems to stand for things most average folks don't. . .Most average folks don't support drugs or crime or violence, which some of that music has a lot of.

[Flame of Anor]

Originally posted by Eliot
What exactly is the Great Spirit? Just curious. The Great Spirit usually refers to the religion of Native Americans. It is the name of their God, god, or any other religious connotation that would discribe a god-like figure. He is their Supreme Creator/Being. This is simply put btw, i don't know much about Native American religions.

-Flame

[Eliot]

Ah, thank you, that explains some things.

[Jesse]

I am leaving this guild since I am no longer a Christian. Please remove me from this guild. I slept over my decision to be a believer in the Great Spirit and that is what I am. Nothing more, nothing less. So....see you all later! May the Great Spirit watch over and guide you all.

[Flame of Anor]

We will still pray for you, Jesse.

-Flame

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by Jesse in the Guild of Music Lovers.
Well, I am not a Christian anymore. Yesterday I denonuced my allegiance to Jesus Christ. So that ends that! I find I am much more happy now! More free to express my anger, feelings, thoughts, words, etc.

What? What stopped you from expressing your feelings by being a Christian? I am sorry you feel that way. I hope you find your way back to the Father who loves you more than you could possibly know.

[e.Blackstar]

Hello all. Ditto on Bran's post. I'll pray for ya.

[FREEDOM!]

Well that just pisses me off!

I get back from a Christian camp (it was awesome!) and I find out that a Christian I look up to is no longer a Christian!

What is happening? whatever it is it is sad!

We r praying for u Jesse.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

At the camp i went to, my staffer got me and this other kid to destroy our secular cd's. I am now secular cd free!

My staffer and one of his friends destroyed all their secular cd's earlier this year, they destroyed over $800 worth of cd's!

[Eliot]

Originally posted by FREEDOM!
I get back from a Christian camp (it was awesome!)

What was the name of it? I've been to a couple of Christian camps.

[FREEDOM!]

It's called Super Summer. It was awesome you could really feel God there.

You should have heard the dude they had preach his name was Vodie Baucham, He was awesome!

[Eliot]

Hmm, I've never heard of that camp. Have you ever heard of The Wilds?

[Samwise_hero]

It's really sad to see Jesse go, i'm sure we'll all be praying for guidence and your return back to the father.
Umm......another matter FREEDOM, i don't mean to repremand you but please watch the language you use........
If anyone actually reads this before tomorrow, i go for my learners licence so please pray for me, i've spent most of the day studying my book and i'm praying that i get it.

i haven't been on a christian camp for a while and besides they're not really that well known in Australia. The last one i went on would have been when i was in 8th grade. Not counting the church family camp i go on every year! You should see our bon fires, they're right next to a creek and about 3 metres highs by 5-6 metres wide. and man do they produce heat. you can't toast marshmallows until the embers are all that's left. =)

[HLGStrider]

Those are probably illegal in my state :rolleyes:

I feel fire season coming. . .Fire season sort of makes me nervous. . .I'm not afraid of losing my house, but I am rather tied down to my art and manuscripts. . .that was a lot of work. . .the problems of paper assets. . .

[liteheartdmerry]

steps in looks around

looks like i'm in the rite place

[Flame of Anor]

Welcome, liteheartdmerry.

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by HLGStrider
Those are probably illegal in my state :rolleyes:

I feel fire season coming. . .Fire season sort of makes me nervous. . .I'm not afraid of losing my house, but I am rather tied down to my art and manuscripts. . .that was a lot of work. . .the problems of paper assets. . .

They make Fire safes, Elgee. You could put your prized belongings in there.

You should see our bon fires, they're right next to a creek and about 3 metres highs by 5-6 metres wide. and man do they produce heat.

*Remembers Boy Scouts*
Man, that is a puny fire. Find an old oak tree, set it on fire and then you'll get an idea of our fires. Probably not the best idea but get a bunch of pyros together and that what will happen. Oh, and by the way TRUE pyros are careful and knowledgeable about fires. So while the fire was huge, it was also under control. We weren't stupid, we just liked fire.

[HLGStrider]

Don't talk to me about pyros! My great grandfather (paternal side. . .) died in an English prison for arson(They didn't kill him. He was just in prison when he died) Came back from WWII and torched a building or two. . .I don't know why.

My grandmother has the honor (maternal side now) of accidentally starting a forest fire.

So, it's in the blood.

[BranMuffin]

Oh, and by the way TRUE pyros are careful and knowledgeable about fires.

Thus the reason I posted this.

How did your Grandmother start a forest fire? Have you started one and just aren't telling us?

Sorry, we're getting off topic. Though I guess it could be on topic a bit if we related it to Hell. Maybe that's why some people refuse the truth, they are demented pyros wanting to see the biggest fire ever- Hell.(Thorin might have something to say about that though)

[FREEDOM!]

I am a pyro, i am very knowledgable about fire, and bombs.

Did all of you here know that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is better documented than the works of Shakespeare.

[FREEDOM!]

OK guys, I really need you to pray about something.

My frriend who is, or was, a god Christian has started to smoke and drink. And her friends who supply her with alchohal are out of town, so her other friend who is 22 was going to by beer for her, but he would only buy it for her if she would have sex with him. But he had too work late so she couldn't. Please pray for her!

And pray for me, cause I am the only person she has told all this to, and i'm supposed to keep it a secret and not tell anyone.

Please Pray!

[BranMuffin]

Yikes, that is a scary situation. I would probably tell other people for her safety or arrange for someone else to be there and hold her accountable. She may hate you for it but it is for her own good. You have to look out for her and pray that God will lead you and her to do the right thing. I will pray for both of you.

[Lifeling]

Way to keep a secret:rolleyes:

Ill pray as well...

[BranMuffin]

Some secrets are better off being told as to not cause harm. I actually am good at keeping secrets, unless they can cause pain in the long run.

[HLGStrider]

I've never started a fire. . .my brother almost did fooling around with a magnifying glass. . .

My grandmother was burning trash in her burning barrel and let some of it get away. . .poor grandma.

[BranMuffin]

Yeah poor Grandma.

So, who all is going on a missions trip or going to camp this summer?

[Eliot]

I'm leaving for a Christian camp in a few days, actually on Sunday after my church's morning service. I'll be coming back from camp on Saturday. :) YAY!

[Lifeling]

Yeah Ill be gone for a good two weeks.. a very good two weeks... starting today! Im staffing a training school, Id appreciate all your prayers. Its an urban ministry training school. Be back on the 20th probly... ill miss ya all.

[Talierin]

*wishes she was going back to her camp this summer* Maybe next year....

[Firnnovien]

I'm going to a youth/family camp for the last week of July and first week of August. I went last year, and it was really cool. We saw a miracle. Jake, who was 13, had Spina Bifida, and when he was born, the doctors told his parents to let him die, as he would never get better. At one of the meetings, the leader asked that if anyone who wanted to pray for Jake then they should stand around him and pray. Around 150 people (everyone in the meeting) got up and prayed. After about half an hour of very emotional prayer, Jake got up and walked, unaided, about 6 steps. His mom said that he had never even got up without any help before, so him standing by himself was a miracle, let alone walking! The next day, his feet started to grow properly, and later in the week he walked about 10 feet with only someone holding on to his hand for support.

Firnn

[syongstar]

I love Jesus ,I think when he said the way to tell if someone is a christian is that they "drink all manner of poisons unharmed,lift up serpents....."he meant we should be understanding,read any book without judgement="drink all manner of poison"and the lift up serpents is bestow wisdom even on the wisest or foolish because the snake was a symbol of wisdom in his day.
When I read the begining of the of the new international version I was shocked this was the most discussed bible on how to put the wording.After compairing it to the original Greek writings it was very close!The only difference I found was compairing it to the Aramac( old Hebrew) version of the old testiment.In the 23 psalm it says "only goodness and mercy" and the NIV said "only goodness and love" that got me to thinking if we are suppose to love one another how important is mercy?

<Roman Catholic (some issues with that)>what ? if you are certain "there is a time for every purpose under heaven?~~*~~

[Jesse]

Can I join this guid? I am a Christian, however I do not want to talk about my beliefs or anything like that. I also tend to stay away from Apologetics and the like. It confuses me terribly. I do however love to talk about how wonderful Jesus Christ is and I love to witness online. I'm an online evangelist and so far I have brought 2 people to know Christ online! :)

[Talierin]

You like to switch religions a lot, don't you, Jesse?

[Eliot]

Um, weren't you a follower of the "Great Spirit" or something like that? :confused:

[Elendil3119]

No, Eliot, that was last week...;) j/k :D

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by syongstar
I love Jesus ,I think when he said the way to tell if someone is a christian is that they "drink all manner of poisons unharmed,lift up serpents....."he meant we should be understanding,read any book without judgement="drink all manner of poison"and the lift up serpents is bestow wisdom even on the wisest or foolish because the snake was a symbol of wisdom in his day.

I have never heard of the snake representing wisdom before. Some people take this too literally and actually drink snake poison and play with poisonous snakes. Kinda creepy.

When I read the begining of the of the new international version I was shocked this was the most discussed bible on how to put the wording.After compairing it to the original Greek writings it was very close!The only difference I found was compairing it to the Aramac( old Hebrew) version of the old testiment.In the 23 psalm it says "only goodness and mercy" and the NIV said "only goodness and love" that got me to thinking if we are suppose to love one another how important is mercy?

The closest translation from greek was the King James Version, though for some it is difficult to read. Most versions have the same principles and teachings but different wording.

Its spelled Aramaic.

It is important as well but Love is the most important, its the reason Jesus came to die on the cross, because He loved us that much. He was showing mercy at the same time though. A lot of things we are commanded go hand in hand with each other.

Jesse, welcome back! I hope you have found the Peace of God. And understand fully Jesus' Lordship. I will gladly welcome you though.

[Jesse]

LOOK Talierin, & Eliot-

It's not like I had a choice when I was switching religions alot. Satan tricked me into thinking that faith was better than the truth. The truth can only be found in Jesus Christ and studying the Word, praying daily, talking online with Christians (a Christian forum), & going to Church! SO BACK OFF! I know as a Christian I shouldn't get mad, but sometimes people can be such jerks.

I'm at peace with God now. That's all that matters right? I am no longer judging others and making fun of others (hint hint). I'm done now. Talk to y'all tomorrow.

I wish to thank Elendil3119 for her joke. It was welcomed. The other two though...ugh....part of my Autism is I just can't take sarcasm even though I do it sometimes myself. Please stop the sarcasm. Thanks!


P.S.--Not that it matters, but I am giving this thread a ***** rating.

[Eliot]

Look Jesse, I didn't mean my previous post in an offensive manner. I was just wondering if you were the Great Spirit follower. I just have a hard time figuring out how some people can change religions *poof* just like that.

Oh, and Elendil3119 is male, just so you know. :) :D

[Talierin]

Sorry man, just teasing you a little bit... no harm meant

[Flame of Anor]

Originally posted by BranMuffin
So, who all is going on a missions trip or going to camp this summer? Yeah, I am going on my first mission trip to China. I am leaving Saturday, we are gonna be teaching in an English camp. If you could keep me and my fellow missionaries on this trip in your prayers that would be much appreciated.

[Jesse]

Thanks all. Sorry I was so harsh.

[Eliot]

That's OK. I've done the same thing to a LOT of other members. :(

[HLGStrider]

It's hard to understand what everyone is saying when you can't read the vocal tone. . .The smilies help somewhat but not nearly enough. . .

[Jesse]

I agree HLGStrider. :)

[cardanas]

can i join this guild
im a christian...............:eek:

[Arlina]

Hey!! May I please join in??

I think that it't ok to change religions, because as long as you're true to God as a follower, then it doesn't really matter what religion you are. The only way to heaven it through Jesus Christ, his one and only son.

'Jesus answered, "I an the way and the thruth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do kknow him and have seen him." John14:6-7 NIV

By the way, I read NRSV. It's easier to read, and that's the version that my church uses. Hope that I can join!!:D

[liteheartdmerry]

sure come on in

[BranMuffin]

I doubt anyone will be turned away from joining. Welcome though.

[Arlina]

Thank you for letting me in!!

[Feanorian]

I'll throw a random question out there:

Has anyone read I Kiss Dating Goodbye or Boy Meets Girl boy Joshua Harris?


If so any thoughts?

[HLGStrider]

Read it.

I liked it but I feel a lot of it is in danger of becoming a tad bit cliched. . .sort of getting sappy if you know what I mean.

I suppose that is because it is becoming a more mainstream thing and that is what is most apparent outside of the nitty gritty.

I don't plan to save my first kiss for the wedding. Ideally it is for engagement. I figure that that is comitment and something we can sort of do when he gives me the ring to seal it.

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by Feanorian
I'll throw a random question out there:

Has anyone read I Kiss Dating Goodbye or Boy Meets Girl boy Joshua Harris?


If so any thoughts?

I have read them both and have read another(that has slipped my mind, I'll probably edit this when I remember). They were all really good books. They were more about taking your mind off of the stereotypical dating mood/scene and making it into a time of uplifting and encouraging the other person. Boy Meets Girl was all about courtship and what Joshua Harris did in his courtship. He gives advice on what you should do and what you shouldn't. Though it was written by a man it goes for both genders(although it seemed to me more focused on the men).

[Jesse]

Next time I'm at the local Christian bookstore, I'll buy those books y'all mentioned.:)

[cardanas]

can i join...:confused:

[BranMuffin]

The more the merrier. Welcome.

[Eliot]

Hey, I just back from camp last night. I had a really good time! I was amazed at how many e-mails I had in my inbox. :) 48, to be exact. ;)

I made some really important decisions in my spiritual life. And I mean some really important decisions! I got myself out of a sin that was bound to destroy my life, and I decided to stand up for God whenever my friends were talking about sin. It's pretty hard to do that at times. :(

[Arlina]

and I decided to stand up for God whenever my friends were talking about sin. It's pretty hard to do that at times. :( [/B][/QUOTE]

I know what you mean, some of my friends aren't christians, so it's really hard to stand up for God in though times they talk against Him. Once, when I and a group of us friends were at a freinds house, we had a huge debate over religion. Me, and one other person were for God, while the other four of five were agrugiing against us. They were saying thangs such as the bible isn't really, it's written by some physco old people...etc. It got me really mad. They're still not christains, and nothing that I say can change that. I keep praying for them, and I would like ya'll to pray for my friends to if you don't mind please!

Oh, way to go Eliot!! Good for you!!!!!!!!:D :cool: ;) :p

[Samwise_hero]

Welcome to those who are new and to those who have returned to us. Welcome back Jesse it's really good to have you here.

Now speaking of standing up for Jesus. i had a confrentation on Sunday night when one of my closer friends got a little discriminative shall i say. i find it really hard when they start doing that and sometimes i don't know what to say. i try to stand up for Jesus but i'm not really sure if the right things come out. i love Jesus with all my heart and i want nothing but happiness for my friends so i don't want to push them away and i don't want to deprive God of my time and praise either. I just want to help my friends find God but i just don't know how to go about it. Can anyone help?

[BranMuffin]

Some times there is nothing you can do, except pray for them. If they don't want to hear about Jesus or how their lives are not very good, then don't push it. That doesn't mean stop all together, just for that time. But do keep bringing it up if they give you a chance. God will work on their hearts, and when they are ready they will listen.

Don't worry about saying the right thing. If you whole heartedly folllow God then the words will come naturally. And remember to read the Bible, whatever you put into your mind you will also put out through your mouth.

Mainly show them Jesus through your life. Remember to some you may be the only Bible they read and the only Jesus they see. So live your life the way God would have it, to show the love and joy of being with Him.

[Jesse]

Hi,
I don't mean to start a debate, but who here thinks ************ is a sin? I am confused on this whole issue. Personally, I think it is a form of release and pleasure that can only come from a loving God. Now I am not doubting the possiblity that it is a sin. I just want your thoughts...

[Eliot]

Hey Jesse, I think this would be a better discussion over PM. I don't have AOL or MSN IM. Sorry. I only have Yahoo! IM, and it's not installed yet_on my new computer. So, we'll just have to PM each other. I think I know what word was deleted by the language deleter (whatever the thing is called).

[Jesse]

Okay. :)

[Feanorian]

Wo wo wo I agree with Eliot if that is what I think it is. I have MSN and AIM phatjn06@aol.com for both. I would be glad to talk to you about it.

[Jesse]

Well,
I talked to my Pastor and after our discussion, I came to the conclusion that it IS a sin.

[Feanorian]

Good, you did the right thing. When in doubt talk to your pastor:)

[Eliot]

That's great, Jesse! :) Good job!

I'll try to remember to pray for you. It's a big struggle. :(

[Samwise_hero]

Hey good on you Jesse! Proud of you!

By the way thanks BranMuffin, i have been praying for my friend. Every day. I have to admitt that i haven't been doing much bible reading lately but i've always found it kinda hard to do on my own. I don't know why. But i have decided that i'm going to try to fit at least a 1/2 hour before bed. all i need to do i guess is to make time. and that i can do.

[HLGStrider]

I always find it hard because I don't know what to read. I prefer furious studying leafing through to find verses on a topic than reading sections.

One thing I found great was looking up every reference to the word life and every reference to the word death in the Bible.

[Jesse]

Thanks all for your prayers & friendship! :)

[Eliot]

One of the biggest reasons that some of you are having trouble reading your Bible every day, is your putting all the focus on yourselves. You're saying "I won't stop reading the Bible" over, and over, and over again. But, the problem with that is, you're not trusting God to help you read. You're putting your trust in yourself.

[Elendil3119]

Here's a great quote on the reading of the Scriptures by C.H. Spurgeon that I read the other day.
But let me say one thing, before I pass on to the second point. If this be the Word of God, what will become of some of you who have not read it for the last month? "Month, sir I have not read it for this year." Ay, there are some of you who have not read it at all. Most people treat the Bible very politely. They have a small pocket volume, neatly bound; they put a white pocket-handkerchief round it and carry it to their places of worhsip; when they get home, they lay it up in a drawer till next Sunday morning; then it comes out again for a little bit of a treat, and goes to the chapel; that is all the poor Bible gets in the way of an airing. That is your style of entertaining this heavenly messenger. There is dust enough on some of your VBibles to write "damnation" with your fingers. There are some of you who have not turned over your Bibles for a long, long, long while, and what think you? I tell you blunt words, but true words. What will God say at last? When you shall come bvefore him, he shall say, "Did you read my Bible?" "No." "I wrote you a letter of mercy; did you read it?" "No." "Rebel! I have sent thee a letter inviting thee to me; didst thou ever read it?" "Lord, I never broke the seal; I kept it shut up." "Wretch!" says God, "then thou deservest hell, if I sent thee a loving epistle, and thou wouldst not even break the seal; what shall I do unto thee?" Oh, let it not be so with you. Be Bible-readers; be Bible-searchers.

(I'm not 'condemning' anybody by posting this quote. Just food for thought. :))

[Eliot]

Hey, I'm leaving the Guild of Christian's. This doesn't mean I'm not a Christian anymore.

[HLGStrider]

Everyone weeps over the loss of a fellow brother from the internet circle. . .Weep, weep, weep.

[cardanas]

eliots not leaving the website is he

[HLGStrider]

Yeah, he is. He has a thread about it in Member Announcements.

[Evenstar373]

Hello everybody I would like to join

[Flame of Anor]

Hi all, I just got back today from China. Oh my word, it was so awesome. God really opened some doors there, but I can't share now for i am tired and have been up for 36 hours on as little as 4 hours of sleep. GoD Bless you all.

[Firnnovien]

Hi all. I'm going to a Christian youth camp today for 2 weeks, I'm so excited! Anyway, I'm leaving in less than an hour, so i thought I'd say bye.

Firnn

[Samwise_hero]

I hope you have heaps of fun! Even though you won't see this post till you get back.
I wish there were more christian camps where i live. it would be so enlightening to go to one. i go to a family one once a year. but once a year just isn't enough.

[HLGStrider]

Welcome Even!

[Arlina]

Hello, Hi, and How ya doin?? Welcome Even!!

Yeah!! I'm back from this bible camp that I went to. It was very imformative!! ((or however you spell that word)) It felt like all that we did there was eat and go to a worship/bible study!! lol I mean, we did do other things, but we just mainly did those things.

[Evenstar373]

Hi and thank you I am very glad that they have a place on here like this for christians

[Samwise_hero]

I was amazed that so many peoples came to join when i opened the thread. i'm really happy though coz now i can socialise and discuss topics with peoples who have the same religion and similar points of views and ideas as me. it's really hard to make other people understand what i really mean, they just brush it off as another one of my 'Christian' speeches....

[HLGStrider]

((or however you spell that word)

I'm pretty sure that is how you spell it.

[Eriol]

Originally posted by HLGStrider
I'm pretty sure that is how you spell it.

Being shy, I never posted here though I take a look once in a while. Don't ask me why I never posted, I don't know myself. But I'll take this opportunity.

The word is iNformative, not iMformative.

Having used such a weak reason to post, I hope to come back more often in the future.

:)

[Arlina]

Originally posted by Eriol
The word is iNformative, not iMformative. :)

Thanks, and as my deeps thoughts say: I can't spell worth beans, and I don't even like them!! heh

I know what you mean Samwise_hero!! They tell us that we don't even do as we go around and tell others to do, like spread the word, but when we try to tell others about Him, they just blow us off by saying that we're trying to force 'religion' on them. They're the ones that need to make up their minds!!

Ok, sorry, just had to blow off some steam, but that is really how it is!!!

Have you ever found that it's hard to teach others about God?? They're all like, if you show me you 'God', then I'll believe. Well, God it like the wind, you don't see it, but you know it's there because of the way the leaves blow, or how your hair moves, etc. You can't see God, but you see the things that he had done, for example, you see yourself, the ground, the sky, etc...

again, sorry, but I'd like your thoughts on the subject please!!

[Eriol]

My own experience, Arlina:

It is impossible to convince people who are not interested in hearing the truth :(. It sounds obvious, but it is the most important thing we should keep in mind when talking about the gospel. If the listener wants to mock Christianity, or to prove it wrong by all means, or to show off his cleverness, it will not be possible to convince him. If the listener is not interested in the truth because he does not believe in such a thing as "truth", it will not be possible to convince him.

Being the brother of an apologist (Malbeth) I picked up a few pointers from watching him. But this is the Lesson One of spreading the gospel -- the other guy must want to listen.

[Malbeth]

Hey,hey, an apologist? I am not sure I agree... I mean I have read a lot of books on apologetics, but I dont think I have converted anyone yet:( ... perhaps in the future (by the way, what were the pointers you got from me? I had no idea...)

[HLGStrider]

You know, I knew it was informative, but I just didn't notice that she'd written imformative. . .m's and n's look a lot a like. I used to have problems when I wrote by hand telling the difference. . .my other problem was that my "us" as in the word "use" would look like "w" and so my use would be we. . .which led to all sorts of odd sentences. . .

Why am I discussing this?

I have no idea. . .

[Samwise_hero]

If people do not wish to listen to us all we can do is pray and ask God to give them ears to hear and the wisdom to listen. i learnt that on Sunday and i have been praying with all of my heart that my two closest friends will hear.

[Jesse]

Hi all,
Sorry I was missing for awhile. I had an issue with one of the mods and a friend here looked into it and the problem got resolved. Is it just me or does the forum look smaller?? :confused:

[Arlina]

Thanks for the tips!! They help, but it still hurts to know that friends don't believe in Him!! You know?!

What you said Samwise_hero reminded me of this verse:
'"So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Luke 11:9-10.

It remined me of that verse because i think if you ask God to open to ears of your friends, they will be opened unto you. Do you understand, or am I walking in circles??

[HLGStrider]

The forum hasn't been as busy lately, but I haven't noticed it being smaller. . .Maybe it is because of the way you have your forum viewing set. . .I don't know.

[Jesse]

Hi,
That's strange. Oh well. Anywhou, why hasn't the forum been that busy??

[Evenstar373]

Hey is an one else Church of God???

[BranMuffin]

I used to be....long story, PM me if you want Evenstar373.

I just got back from vacation in the mountains...close to the experience from camp. Just me and God...awesome.

[Jesse]

Why is it I can't edit my profile and see my own posts? Grrrr....:mad:

[Samwise_hero]

Originally posted by Arlina

What you said Samwise_hero reminded me of this verse:
'"So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Luke 11:9-10.

It remined me of that verse because i think if you ask God to open to ears of your friends, they will be opened unto you. Do you understand, or am I walking in circles??

That verse is totally relivant. it reminds us that we should never give up on our friends because we know that God will answer our prayers. we just need to be persistant. and besides we're not the only ones trying to win their hearts back to God.

[FREEDOM!]

Guys I really need you to pray for My friend that I mentioned earlier, and for me.

On Sunday she told me that her pastor gave a sermon that really convicted her, and that she cried during the whole thing, and on the way home, and for an hour in her driveway. So she wanted me to help her live more like a Christian. But I just talked to her 5 minutes ago and she wants to kill herself again. Please pray!

[Samwise_hero]

I'm with you, i've started praying already.

[Galdor]

Hey, as I'm sure just about all of you know I'm a born again Christain.

I always find it interesting to see the different ways different "Christians" believe they can be saved. So if you guys feel up to it I think it would be really interesting for each of you to outline how you think someone gets saved and why you think the way you do...i.e. give some scripture to back up your beliefs.

Btw, Freedom, I'll be praying for your friend.

[Flame of Anor]

I will reply to Galdor's post when I get home tomorrow. Right now i am down at my Grandpa's house.

[BranMuffin]

The only way to be saved is to accept that Jesus Christ is Lord of ALL. And to ask him into your heart.

Ephesians 2: 8)For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9)not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 14: 6)Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7)If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Romans 6: 23)For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10: 9)I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10)The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Acts 4: 12)Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

Acts 15: 11b)We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.

Acts 16: 29)The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30)He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31)They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." 32)Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33)At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34)The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God--he and his whole family.

Romans 10: 8)But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9)That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10)For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11)As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12)For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13)for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [

2 Timothy 1: 8)So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, 9)who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10)but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

Titus 3: 4)But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5)he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6)whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7)so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

[Samwise_hero]

I believe that the only way to be saved is to accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour and to believe that he is there and always will be. I don't have any verses with me right now coz i'm at school so i might add some later.
By the way, i've ben feeling down for the last couple of days and just coming onto this topic brings warmth inside. It's a nice calming feeling.......

[Talierin]

I'd love to hear everyone's conversion stories, if you don't mind sharing :)

I grew up in a Christian household, and I think I was around 6 when I asked Jesus into my heart (funny thing is I think I had just been sent to my room cause I'd gotten into trouble), and I got baptized at 13, but I really don't think I understood Christianity and what it means till I went to this awesome camp last summer... completely changed my life. I want to go back there next summer... didn't get a chance to this summer :( Anyways, that's my story, hehehe

[HLGStrider]

I was saved at two, so I know for a fact that it doesn't take much. I was two, standing next to my mom on the couch, listening to her talk about it, and I through open my arms and said "Come in Jesus."

He never left. I never doubted. . .so it's been pretty simple in my walk.

It's a cute story but not a very interesting one or dramatic one as conversions go.

I think it takes just one moment of surrender to Christ, one moment giving in and letting him in.

[BranMuffin]

I was raised in a Christian home and saved at the age of 7 by an evangelistic youth ministry that came to the church. Nothing really change much though since I was a good kid anyway. Then I started hanging out with the wrong people and got into some trouble. Not until my sophmore year when my friend invited me to youth group with him did I start getting my life back on track. Then on the Sunday before school started back up of my Junior year I recommitted my life to Christ. I have had my own series of ups and downs, and spiritual high experiences. But for the most part I have changed quite a bit from my old self. I have died to self and in Him I am a new creation.

[Feanorian]

I've grown up in a good Christian home...I asked Jesus into my heart in the front seat of my families van when I was 6 one day waiting with my older sisters for my mom to come outside. They started making fun of me because I hadent done it yet........:rolleyes: (girls mature quicker then guys...riiight). That was not really significant because I suppose I had been a Christian in some sorts before that. I just hadent truly understood. As I've grown my understanding has gotten better and better. and my love for Christ has deepened. I am going to a non-christian private school which will be a major thing in my life seeing how I dont really hang out with non-christian teenagers...aside from work but most of them are older...so I guess this is a good time to ask for prayers for this upcoming school year..:)

[Eriol]

Nice avatar BranMuffin :)

I was raised as a Catholic; drifted away at 10, more or less. I never stopped believing in God, but as long as I had to believe in a myth, I thought Tolkien's myth was nicer ;); at the age of 14 I believed in the Valar :eek:. That was the reasoning behind it:

"I can't prove or disprove God; so it is a matter of opinion, of what makes me feel better. God is the option, then; but the myths surrounding him are not as important. So I guess believing in the Valar is ok."

:D

I began to think again about these matters some 5 years ago, after reading and pondering a lot about ethics. In a way, I began to believe in Jesus because Jesus agreed with me :rolleyes:; a more presumptuous thought can't be imagined, but that's what I felt, and I laugh a lot at this feeling now, hehe.

Then I read the gospel, with an open mind, for the first time; and I thought it would be really fantastic if it were true... but I was still doubtful. It was only 2 years ago that my metaphysical doubts about it were dispelled, after more reading and thinking; that I accepted the "Jesus account" in the gospels as true, and therefore I saw that I had to submit or die. I chose the first option ;); and here I am.

I was lucky... the road I followed is not a common road, it seems, and many people get lost in it :(. To "think your way" into it is dangerous.

[Malbeth]

I was also raised a Catholic, and even got to Confirmation (a Catholic sacrament... I think some other Churches have it too)... but right after the confirmation I abandoned my faith... I was 15 then, and The Problem of Evil was a problem I could not solve to my satisfaction, so I became sort of an atheist.

But then I read Paradise Lost by John Milton when I was 17, and this poem showed me the solution to the Problem of Evil... so I stopped being an atheist and became a non-descript theist. Around this time I also began to believe in the Valar (that is funny because Eriol and I never discussed the matter, and yet we both for a time believed in the Valar), for the same reason Eriol has stated (they were cool). I even said evening prayers to Elbereth!

Why did I not believe in Christianity then? I just could not believe Jesus was God, it seemed like a contradiction in terms (how can a man be a God?). From Paradise Lost I knew that it made sense for God to try to save mankind, and I knew that whoever saved man would have to be greater than man, but I thought an angel could do it, so I thought Jesus was kind of like Gandalf, an emissary sent to save the Children of Iluvatar.

I had some conversations with my sister, who never stopped being a Catholic. but she was never able to convince me Jesus was God... all the bible quotes she used I had my own interpretation that would make Christ not be God.

Then in the beginning of 2000, when I was 20, a lot of things happened; in the beginning of January I borrowed a Cd from the girlfriend of my other brother... this was an negro spiritualacappella cd, and in it there was a song soon ah will be done that was absolutely beautiful and talked about being done with the troubles of the world and going home to be with God. This phrase, home to be with God moved me a lot, but it only made me wish Heaven existed not convincing me of whether it existed or not, much less if Christianity was true or not. On February I saw Shadowlands, the movie about C S Lewis and his wife... I knew Lewis was a good friend of Tolkien, so I was interested in the movie, and I mentioned it to a good friend of mine, also a Tolkien fan. He said that Lewis was great too and he lent me the Chronicles of Narnia... he likes it a lot, even though he is an agnostic. I read all the books in less than two weeks, and I was reading The Last Battle just when I was beginning a new term in college after the summer vacation... so the end, when Lewis says: The term is over, the holidays have begun, I started crying in the middle of the college courtyard (by my good luck, no one noticed that:) ) Again, this was all preparation, making me wish Christianity was true, but I was not convinced that it was true. Then my copy of Tolkien's letters arrived by mail, and I read letter 250, when he talks to his son Michael about the Faith... and in it there was the unmistakable claim of Jesus, the one claim I was not able to find another meaning to: Before Abraham was, I AM.

Not being able to dodge the issue any more, I started believing again... called my sister, whom I knew would be very glad to hear it, started going to Mass again, confessed my sins and partook of the Eucharist.

Nothing I have read or listened since then has made me think that I have made the wrong decision.

[Maeglin]

In my absence from the forums, I am only finding this now, so I'd like to be a part of this as well.

As for my conversion story......well I'm sorry to say I don't really have one. I was born and raised in a Christian home and have been a believer all of my life. I think my first true understanding of a Christian story came when I was about 7 years old (if you can count that as a conversion), but it was when I had finally figured out the whole Jacob and Esau thing. I had always seen Jacob as the bad guy for taking Esau's birthright, then I figured out that it was the other way around. Anyway, I've been going to the same church my entire life, it's a protestant church (Presbyterian if you wanna get more specific), with a great Pastor who has always been there for his church family (and believe me he's helped my family through some hard times).

[Galdor]

I've grown up in a Christian family all my life. I was saved at about three I think, all I can remember is talking with my older brother about the subject and that it is when I believed the first time. It's really though only in the last couple years of my life that I've really began to understand what it is that I believe. One thing that really hit was about two years ago for a lesson my youth pastor read us a medical account of Jesus' last days. The physical pain, coupled with the emotional stress that Christ went through is unbelievable......it really made me understand just how much he loved us....well, understand might not quite be the right word, because I also realize that no matter how much we think God loves us, we are only scratching the surface of his abundant love towards us. Anyway, that's my testimony...so now I'll go on to answer my own question.

I believe that the way to be saved is simply to believe in Jesus for eternal life. A way I personally like to say it is "You must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name." That seems a bit more complicated than just believing in Jesus for eternal life...but it really isn't, let me explain. "Christ" means(I'm not sure if this is the literal meaning...but it's the practical meaning) "life-giver" and that is how the Jews would have understood someone who called themselves the "Christ,” as someone who could give life. And only the Son of God can give life, and therefore be the "Christ." So if you believe in Jesus for eternal life, by believing He can give you life, you are automatically believing that He is the Christ, and therefore also believing that He is the Son of God...whether you have mentally thought it through or not. Here are some verses to support my belief of being saved through belief alone.


John 3:14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Notice, it is said three times in that passage that for eternal life you must believe in Jesus. Pretty simple.

John 6:28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Ok, right from the mouth of Jesus Christ. The people(they) are asking Jesus what work God requires of them for eternal life. And as you can see Jesus tells them that the work of God is to believe in the one he has sent, which is Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Once again it says here that it is by grace, and through faith(which holds essentially the same meaning as believe), that we are saved. It also clearly states that it is not by works that we are saved.

John 20:30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Yet again, it is by belief in Jesus that we are saved.

Ok, there were four passages that state simply and plainly that to gain eternal life you must believe in Jesus for it. I think that is enough to support my point of view....but if any of you wish to see more I'd be happy to try and get some more for you guys.

[Samwise_hero]

I was brought up in a Christian home and i have been supported my whole life. I asked Jesus into my heart when i was about 3. It was while i was at a Sunday School kind of thing. I don't remember much more of that, but i do rmember asking God to be with me nearly every day when i was a kid. It hasn't changed much but i look around at my friends and see some of the problems that they have and i am eternally grateful that i have never ending help from God.
I am truely blessed and have been for so many years. i was baptised in July last year and have not yet regretted it and i know that i never will. it feels so comforting that i always have someone to look up to and pray to when i have problems. Thankyou God for that.

[Evenstar373]

I was also brought in a christian home and gave my heart to christ when I was 5 a while back i back slided but I am doing beter:)

[Firnnovien]

Well, I'm back from camp. It was absolutely great! Every night of the two weeks, in our meetings we met with God. We learnt about going to the next level with God. It was great.

Anyway, my conversion story. Well, I was brought up in a Christian home, so I always kinda believed in God, but about 3 years ago, I started to think about Christianity in terms other than 'oh yeah God created the Universe and he does pretty cool things sometimes'. I started to think about actually accepting Jesus and stuff, so I got baptised 2 days after my birthday in 2000.

Firnn

[Niirewen]

Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to the forum and I'd love to be a member of this guild:) Well, I don't have a conversion story, I was brought up as a Lutheran by my mother, and I have gone to the same wonderful church my whole life.
Anyway, I was wondering if you all would pray for the Marlatt family, who recently lost their Jesse, an 18 year old young man, in a car accident. His twin brother Joey is taking it especially hard. I know it would mean a lot to all of Jesse's family and friends if you would keep them in your prayers.
Thanks so much:)

[HLGStrider]

That's sad. . .Prayer sent out.

[Flame of Anor]

Oh man that is so tragic. I shall keep them lifted up in my prayers. Please keep us aprised of the situation. God bless.

[Talierin]

That's sad, I'll pray :(

For the first time in three years I'm actually excited about going to church! My church has been having so many problems, and it's just gotten worse and worse, so finally I just left two weeks ago... yesterday I went to this church in my neighborhood, and wow, I absolutely loved it! The pastor is really nice, and his sermon was great, a lot of people said hi, and there's actually people my age there! Can't wait to go next week!

[Niirewen]

That's great, Tal.:) It's so important to be involved in a church that you truly enjoy. It's great when you can find a church that you're actually excited to go to. I'm so thankful that I've had the same wonderful church to go to my whole life.

[Saucy]

...hmmm i guess i can ask u guys then,
"am i a christian?"....my family basically has no religeon, accept my great grandma attends church, and i have never been to a church REAL service in my life, but this summer at camp i accepted god and was baptized, i just started readig my bible.
I probably still wont be going to church cause i cant drive there and none of my friends attend,but can u be a christian without attending church and without having a christian family?
anyways i wanna join ur guild if its ok...

[Eriol]

I think you are a Christian, powersauce_69. As long as you accepted God in your heart, and that Jesus Christ is God and died for your sins, you are a Christian.

Welcome :).

[Saucy]

Thanks tons.....perhaps when i can drive i will go to church and i kno that i will raise my children has christians when i have some:D

[Galdor]

Powersauce, if you have believed in Jesus for eternal life, than you are, without a doubt, a Christian. A person does not get saved on their own merit, or that of their family. It does not matter if no one in your family is a Christian, or if you don't have any friends who are Christians, the only thing that matters is if you believe in Jesus for eternal life. As to going to Church, that also has nothing to do with whether or not you are saved. Believe it or not the Bible never commands Christians to go to Church. What the Bible does command is that we have fellowship with other believers, and that is why Christians go to Church. But truly, whether you go to Church, or simply hang out with some Christian friends for the purpose and growing in your relationship with Christ makes no differance whatsoever. The Biblical "Church" was not a building where people met once a week. But rather the Biblical idea of the "Church" referred to all believers. So in truth, any meeting of believers for the purpose of glorifying God could be called “Church.” The reason Christians say that going to Church is important holds many reasons. It gives us the opportunity to have fellowship with other believers, to receive Biblical instruction, to glorify God as a body, etc. For that reason I would encourage you to get involved in a local Church, or youth group. But it is definitely not essential to being a Christian. Here, let me give you a verse that should help you decide whether or not you are a Christian.

John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

I hope that helps, but if you have any other questions feel free to PM me, or talk with me on MSN. My MSN is tolkienfan3791@netscape.net.

Btw, I believe that you don't have to formally join, or be accepted into this guild. But rather that this is simply a place for the Christians at TTF to hang out together. If I'm wrong, than I'm sorry....and I guess I should ask for membership also.:p

[Saucy]

wow, thats really great help!:eek: :) :D

[HLGStrider]

I think Galdor is basically right since we don't even have a members list and no real guild leader.

[Samwise_hero]

What Galdor wrote was inspiring. I have to admitt that i have been a little afraid that i am drifting lately. i just find myself saying things that i wouldn't normally say and stuff and it really scares me. i don't want to drift becasue i have before and that was when i went into a real depression. i just don't want to go back there. i was wondering if you guys could pray for me to stay on the right track. I know that i am blessed with God's love and i WILL get back on track. no matter what!
Phil 4:13 I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Gives Me Strength!

[Saucy]

im kinda new at the whole praying for others thing but i'll give it a shot 4 u!:) if you pray 4 me i will pray for you and then everyone can pray for each other!

[BranMuffin]

That's the way it works. Though I think I would take out the "if"... and just pray for others with out having to have someone else pray for you. Only because I know that there are others that are praying for me and you.

[Saucy]

good point;) :D

[Samwise_hero]

It feels so nice to know that there are people out there that barely even know me but are willing and eager to see me through my......... time of...... need. Thankyou guys so much.

[Gandalf White]

Oh wow! I don't know how I could have missed this Guild for so long....

Greetings, fellow believers. :)

[Jesse]

Greetings to all! Mesa back!

[HLGStrider]

Welcome here, GW. Welcome back, Jesse. . .blah, what a cold. I HATE COLDS!

[Samwise_hero]

Hey guys, welcome and welcome back nice to see new peoples coming in all the time.
Elgee i sympathise about the cold. i haven't had one all year but i know my time is coming..........hopefully after all my end of semester tests....... .^-^.

[Maeglin]

I'm back!!!! And for good now!! Did you all miss me?:D I was at a Christian camp with some friends from school (the Young Life organization if any of you have heard of it) at Lake Saranac, New York. I've actually been back for over a week but I haven't had time for the forums, but now I do. I feel like I really refreshed my relationship with God while I was there, and it was quite possibly the best week of my entire life. Anyway, I'm glad to be back and hope to get on here on a more regular basis and talk with you all,
Glorf;)

[Jesse]

HGLStrider,
I am praying for ya.

[e.Blackstar]

Can I join?
:confused:

[Saucy]

i think anyone can join if they want:D ;)

[BranMuffin]

Yes, Welcome to all. What is next to do on the agenda?

[Gandalf White]

Ah, is there a certain agenda we are supposed to be following?

If not I would like to post what I found to be a very moving story....Let me know..

:)

[HLGStrider]

The meeting of the Board of Directors will come to order. . .

And the next order of business is for GW to post the story.

Tunchun!

[Gandalf White]

*Thanks Board of Directors* ;)


This story reminds me of the passage

Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.


Ragman


I saw a strange sight. I stumbled upon a story most strange, like nothing my life, my street sense, my sly tongue had ever prepared me for.
Hush, child. Hush, now, and I will tell it to you.


Even before the dawn one Friday morning I noticed a young, handsome man, handsome and strong, walking the alleys of our City. He was pulling an old cart filled with clothes both bright and new, and he was calling in a clear, tenor voice: "Rags!" Ah, the air was foul and the first light filthy to be crossed by such sweet music.
"Rags! New rags for old! I take your tired rags! Rags!"
"Now this is a wonder," I thought to myself, for the man stood six-feet-four, and his arms were like tree limbs, hard and muscular, and his eyes flashed intelligence. Could he find no better job than this, to be a ragman in the inner city?
I followed him. My curiosity drove me. And I wasn't disappointed.
Soon the Ragman saw a woman sitting on her back porch. She was sobbing into a handkerchief, sighing, and shedding a thousand tears. Her knees and elbows made a sad X. Her shoulders shook. Her heart was breaking.
The Ragman stopped his cart. Quietly, he walked to the woman, stepping round tin cans, dead toys, and Pampers.
"Give me your rag," he said so gently, "and I'll give you another."
He slipped the handkerchief from her eyes. She looked up, and he laid across her palm a linen cloth so clean and new that it shined. She blinked from the gift to the giver.
Then, as he began to pull his cart again, the Ragman did a strange thing: he put her stained handkerchief to his own face; and then he began to weep, to sob as grievously as she had done, his shoulders shaking. Yet she was left without a tear.
"This is a wonder," I breathed to myself, and I followed the sobbing Ragman like a child who cannot turn away from mystery.
"Rags! Rags! New rags for old!"
In a little while, when the sky showed grey behind the rooftops and I could see the shredded curtains hanging out black windows, the Ragman came upon a girl whose head was wrapped in a bandage, whose eyes were empty. Blood soaked her bandage. A single line of blood ran down her cheek.
Now the tall Ragman looked upon this child with pity, and he drew a lovely yellow bonnet from his cart.
"Give me your rag, " he said, tracing his own line on her cheek, "and I'll give you mine."
The child could only at him while he loosened the bandage, removed it, and tied it to his own head. The bonnet he set on hers. And I gasped at what I saw: for with the bandage went the wound! Against his brow it ran a darker, more substantial blood--his own!
"Rags! Rags! I take old rags!" cried the sobbing, bleeding, strong, intelligent Ragman.
The sun hurt both the sky, now, and my eyes; the Ragman seemed more and more to hurry.
"are you going to work?" he asked a man who leaned against a telephone pole. The man shook his head.
The Ragman pressed him: "Do you have a job?"
"Are you crazy?" sneered the other. He pulled away from the pole, revealing the right sleeve of his jacket--flat, the cuff stuffed into the pocket. He had no arm.
"So," said the Ragman. "Give me your jacket, and I'll give you mine."
Such quiet authority in his voice!
The one-armed man took off his jacket. So did the Ragman--and I trembled at what I saw: for the Ragman's arm stayed in its sleeve, and when the other put it on he had two good arms, thick as tree limbs; but the Ragman had only one.
"Go to work," he said.
After that he found a drunk, lying unconscious beneath an army blanket, an old man, hunched, wizened, and sick. He took that blanket and wrapped it round himself, but for the drunk he left new clothes.

And now I had to run to keep up with the Ragman. Though he was weeping uncontrollably, and bleeding freely at the forehead, pulling his cart with one arm, stumbling for drunkenness, falling again and again, exhausted, old, old, and sick, yet he went with terrible speed. On spider's legs he skittered through the alleys of the City, this mile and the next, until he came to its limits, and then he rushed beyond.
I wept to see the change in this man. I hurt to see his sorrow. And yet I needed to see where he was going in such haste, perhaps to know what drove him so.
The little old Ragman--he came to a landfill. He came to the garbage pits. And then I wanted to help him in what he did, but I hung back, hiding. He climbed a hill. With tormented labor he cleared a little space on that hill. The he sighed. He lay down. He pillowed his head on a handkerchief and a jacket. He covered his bones with an army blanket. And he died.
Oh, how I cried to witness that death! I slumped in a junked car and wailed and mourned as one who has no hope--because I had come to love the Ragman. Every other face had faded in the wonder of this man, and I cherished him; but he died. I sobbed myself to sleep.
I did not know--how could I know?--that I slept through Friday night and Saturday and its night, too.
But then, on Sunday morning, I was wakened by a violence.
Light--pure, hard, demanding light--slammed against my sour face, adn I blinked, and I looked, and I saw the last and the first wo