The Silmarillion Ch.#10: Of the Sindar

[Nenya Evenstar]

Alrighties, here's me little chapter. :p I am hoping that in a way this will signal my entrance back into posting in the book sections . . . hopefully my life will allow it.

Having said that, let's get right to business! :p
(1)
The Silmarillion From Nogrod and Belegost the Naugrim came forth into Beleriand; and the Elves were filled with amazement, for they had believed themselves to be the only living things in Middle-earth that spoke with words or wrought with hands, and that all others were but birds and beasts.
What of the Ents? Everyone knows the huge debate of whether or not the Ents were older than the Elves, but surely the Elves would have known about the Ents by this time!
The Two Towers, Treebeard Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk. They always wished to talk to everything, the old elves did. But then the Great Darkness came, and they passed away over the Sea, or fled into far valleys, and hid themselves. Never again. Aye, aye, there was all one wood once upon a time from here to the Mountains of Lune and this was just the East End.
Soooo . . . I am assuming that the Great Darkness signifies either this:
The Silmarillion, Of the Coming of Elves Yet many of the Quendi were filled with dread at his coming; and this was the doing of Melkor. For by after-knowledge the wise declare that Melkor, ever watchful, was first aware of the awakening of the Quendi, and sent shadows and evil spirits to spy upon them and waylay them.
And the "they passed away over the Sea, or fled into far valleys, and hid themselves" signifies this:
The Silmarillion, Of the Coming of Elves Thus it was that when Nahar neighed and Oromë indeed came among them, some of the Quendi hid themselves, and some fled and were lost. But those that had courage, and stayed, perceived swiftly that the Great Rider was no shape out of darkness; for the light of Aman was in his face, and all the noblest of the Elves were drawn towards it. And those Elves that went to Aman were those who Treebeard mentions as "passing over the sea."

OR. . . .

The Great Darkness could signify the destruction of the Two Trees and the coming of Melkor to Middle-earth and the beginning of the Wars of Beleriand.
But then the Great Darkness came, and they passed away over the Sea, or fled into far valleys, and hid themselves. This could be when Melkor sent his first host of orcs into Beleriand against Thingol.
The Silmarillion, Of the SindarAfter the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called the Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the colour of the leaves. But many went north and entered the guarded realm of Thingol, and were merged with his people.
The Simarillion, Of the SindarTherefore he withdrew all his people that his summon scould reach within the fastness of Neldoreth and Region, and Melian put forth her power and fenced all that dominion round about with an unseen wall of shadow and bewilderment: the Girdle of Melian. . . .And this could be the "hiding and fleeing" that Treebeard talks about. However, there is no "passing over the Sea" in this scenario unless you consider the coming of the Noldor to Beleriand as passing over the Sea, but I think that's stretching it, as it's heading the wrong direction.

So, I would lean more towards the first option . . . but if it's the first option, where does this part fit in?
The Silmarillion From Nogrod and Belegost the Naugrim came forth into Beleriand; and the Elves were filled with amazement, for they had believed themselves to be the only living things in Middle-earth that spoke with words or wrought with hands, and that all others were but birds and beasts.According to what I've come up with, the Elves would already have awoken the Ents . . . unless my second supposition is true? After all, the woods Treebeard mentions extended all the way to the Mountains of Lune . . . so could the Ents have still been sleeping?


(2)
The Silmarillion, Of the SindarAnd when the building of Menegroth was achieved, and there was peace in the realm of Thingol and Melian, the Naugrim yet came ever and anon over the mountains and went in traffic about the lands; but they went seldom to the Falas, for they hated the sound of the sea and feared to look upon it. To Beleriand there came no other rumour or tidings of the world without.
What caused this fear in the dwarves?

(3)
The Silmarillion, Of the SindarAt this time therefore the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off all creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol's armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail; for the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-burnished. And that proved well for Thingol in the time that was to come.
How in the world did the dwarves manage to create mail and weapons that did not rust? :p I was reading this at lunch today and looked up at my brother and asked him the same question. He just looked at me and said, "It's fantasy." Hopefully you can do better. ;)

(4)
The Silmarillion, Of the SindarSoon afterwards Ungoliant fled from the north and came into the realm of King Thingol, and a terror of darkness was about her; but by the power of Melian she was stayed, and entered not into Neldoreth, but abode long time under the shadow of the precipices in which Dorthonion fell southward. And they became known as Ered Gorgoroth, the Mountains of Terror, and none dared go thither, or pass nigh them; there life and light were strangled, and there all waters were poisoned.
Obviously the Elves knew of Ungoliant . . . why didn't they do anything to attempt to destroy her? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too comfortable having a giant spider living at my borders . . . especially since the Girdle of Melian was not in affect yet. So, could the Elves of Beleriand have helped themselves more by not sitting and simply accepting things as they were? What if they had taken aggresive action against the evils that were assailing them instead of waiting to be assailed? In short, where was all that Maia wisdom?

Also, any ideas of what happened to Ungoliant? How did she die? Did she go under the sea and drown when Beleriand was submersed in the War of Wrath?

(5)
The Silmarillion, Of the SindarBut new tidings were at hand, which none in Middle-earth had foreseen, neither Morgoth in his pits nor Melian in Menegroth; for no news came out of Aman, whether by messenger, or by spirit, or by vision in dream, after the death of the Trees. In this same time Fëanor came over the Sea in the white ships of the Teleri, and landed in the Firth of Drengist, and there burned the ships at Losgar.
I wasn't aware that the Valar communicated by messenger with those in Beleriand before the death of the Trees. Perhaps Orome gave messages at times to Thingol? Perhaps Ulmo spoke through the waters?

And now, to finish (for the time being). I find the quote I just gave completely amazing, and it gave me goosebumps when I read it. It is placed at the very end of the chapter and right after the beginning of the Wars of Beleriand when everything looks so dark. I cannot help but be amazed at how the Rebellion of the Noldor, though seemingly bad, served such a great purpose: to ultimately free Beleriand from Morgoth's hand. It only further demonstrates the truth of Eru's words:
The Silmarillion, The AinulindaleMighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.

************
I am sorry that I do not have any additional readings. Unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with any of the books to give any insight into this . . . please feel free to add additional readings!

[Ithrynluin]

1.

I think 'The Great Darkness' might be a reference to Melkor's menacing presence and growing influence in Middle Earth during the First Age. Quite a puzzling one. The Elves might have been less willing or interested in speaking to other beings during Melkor's sojourn in ME, and they were busy with wars.
I am of the belief that Ents were awakened by the Elves when these still lived near Cuivienen.

From Nogrod and Belegost the Naugrim came forth into Beleriand; and the Elves were filled with amazement, for they had believed themselves to be the only living things in Middle-earth that spoke with words or wrought with hands, and that all others were but birds and beasts.

What of the Ents? Everyone knows the huge debate of whether or not the Ents were older than the Elves, but surely the Elves would have known about the Ents by this time!

This quote might mean that the Elves thought there were no creatures that 'spoke with words' in Middle Earth, and the Ents were not counted here since the Elves themselves taught them how to speak.

2.

What caused this fear in the dwarves?

The Dwarves were children of Aulë, the Maia associated with the element of Earth. Earth, mountains, stone, jewels...these were their 'natural surroundings', and they were unused to water much like any creature of the land feels uncomfortable swimming in water or at the very sight of water and avoids it. Another thing that comes to mind is that the sound of water reminded Elves of the Undying Lands and it called to them and made them long for Aman. To Dwarves water would hold no such appeal.

3.

How in the world did the dwarves manage to create mail and weapons that did not rust?

I guess we could simply ascribe this to the immense skill of the Naugrim, and some 'magic' of their own. ;) The following quotes show that they were extraordinarily skilled with iron and copper:

In the darkness of Arda already the Dwarves wrought great works, for even from the first days of their Fathers they had marvellous skill with metals and with stone; but in that ancient time iron and copper they loved to work, rather than silver or gold.

4.

Obviously the Elves knew of Ungoliant . . . why didn't they do anything to attempt to destroy her? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too comfortable having a giant spider living at my borders . . . especially since the Girdle of Melian was not in affect yet. So, could the Elves of Beleriand have helped themselves more by not sitting and simply accepting things as they were? What if they had taken aggresive action against the evils that were assailing them instead of waiting to be assailed? In short, where was all that Maia wisdom?


Perhaps her power was too great for the Elves to oust. Perhaps the cliffs where she dwelled were just too steep to climb. Perhaps she wove a darkness around her at all times, which prevented anyone from coming near her or finding a way - or at least prevented larger companies from finding her, since she would welcome a bewildered wanderer to fill her belly.

Also, any ideas of what happened to Ungoliant? How did she die? Did she go under the sea and drown when Beleriand was submersed in the War of Wrath?

In the previous chapter the manner of her death is stated, or at least hinted at:

...and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand, and dwelt beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, because of the horror that she bred there. For other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed, and went whither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring abode there and wove their hideous webs. Of the fate of Ungoliant no tale tells. Yet some have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last.

It looks like she departed before the ruin of Beleriand, and even if she had not I doubt she would have drowned - rather run away in search of a hiding place, much like the Balrog, Sauron, the Dragons...

5.

I wasn't aware that the Valar communicated by messenger with those in Beleriand before the death of the Trees. Perhaps Orome gave messages at times to Thingol? Perhaps Ulmo spoke through the waters?

The quote says:

for no news came out of Aman, whether by messenger, or by spirit, or by vision in dream, after the death of the Trees.

Prior to the destruction of the Two Trees, there was either messenger, spirit, vision or dream...out of Aman. The quote implies that one or two of these happened, not all of them necessarily and afterwards there was no message whatsoever.

I think the most likely way of communication between the Valar and the dwellers of Beleriand were visions that came to those who had foresight, notably Melian.

On the coasts of the Falas, Círdan might have recieved tidings of Aman from Ossë and Uinen.

Also, Oromë visited Beleriand:

In Beleriand still at times rode Oromë the great, passing like a wind over the mountains, and the sound of his horn came down the leagues of the starlight

Let me add a few wonderings of my own:

6.

Now Melian had much foresight, after the manner of the Maiar; and when the second age of the captivity of Melkor had passed, she counselled Thingol that the Peace of Arda would not last for ever. He took thought therefore how he should make for himself a kingly dwelling, and a place that should be strong, if evil were to awake again in Middle-earth; and he sought aid and counsel of the Dwarves of Belegost. They gave it willingly, for they were unwearied in those days and eager for new works; and though the Dwarves ever demanded a price for all that they did, whether with delight or with toil, at this time they held themselves paid. For Melian taught them much that they were eager to learn, and Thingol rewarded them with many fair pearls.

What knowledge could Melian have had that the Dwarves would be interested in? She was said to be akin to Yavanna herself - and Dwarves had no interest in living things.

7.

Therefore the Naugrim laboured long and gladly for Thingol, and devised for him mansions after the fashion of their people, delved deep in the earth. Where the Esgalduin flowed down, and parted Neldoreth from Region, there rose in the midst of the forest a rocky hill, and the river ran at its feet. There they made the gates of the hall of Thingol, and they built a bridge of stone over the river, by which alone the gates could be entered. Beyond the gates wide passages ran down to high halls and chambers far below that were hewn in the living stone, so many and so great that that dwelling was named Menegroth, the Thousand Caves.

The Underground Halls of the Mirkwood Elves bear a striking resemblance to Menegroth. When were the former made? Could we assume that an elf of Doriath came up with the idea of underground halls in Mirkwood, after the fashion of Menegroth and in memory of it?
Who built those halls? The Dwarves? Judging by 'The Hobbit', the Mirkwood Elves were not on friendly terms with Dwarves. ;)

8.

And as the years passed Melian and her maidens filled the halls with woven hangings wherein could be read the deeds of the Valar, and many things that had befallen in Arda since its beginning, and shadows of things that were yet to be.

Isn't this reminiscent of the Vala Vairë, the spouse of Mandos who is called the Weaver, and records 'all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs, and the halls of Mandos that ever widen as the ages pass are clothed with them.'

9.

And ere long the evil creatures came even to Beleriand, over passes in the mountains, or up from the south through the dark forests. Wolves there were, or creatures that walked in wolf-shapes, and other fell beings of shadow; and among them were the Orcs, who afterwards wrought ruin in Beleriand: but they were yet few and wary, and did but smell out the ways of the land, awaiting the return of their lord. Whence they came, or what they were, the Elves knew not then, thinking them perhaps to be Avari who had become evil and savage in the wild; in which they guessed all too near, it is said.

It is hinted that Orcs were Avari who were corrupted and mutilated by Morgoth in the pits of Utumno. Though an alternative solution is offered in Myths Transformed (HoME X), I find this one plausible and quite to my liking. Which do you prefer (regardless of the fact which theory might be 'right' or 'canon' !)?

10.

But the victory of the Elves was dear-bought For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid.

Why were the Elves of Ossiriand light-armed? They were in contact both with the Naugrim and with Thingol's people, and if the former refused to give them better armour, Thingol's people at least would give them this, since they were close kin.

[Bilbo Baggins57]

I think it's probably safe to assume that an elf of Doriath came up with the idea of the underground halls in Mirkwood in memory of Menegroth since:
Others of the Eldar there were who crossed the mountains of Ered Luin in that age and passed into the inner lands. Many of these were Teleri, survivors of Doriath and Ossiriand; and they established realms among the Silvan elves in woods and mountains far from the sea, for which nontheless they ever yearned in their hearts.

But the conflict between the dwarves & elves happened because of the whole thing with Elu Thingol & the Nauglamir...Did the Sindar or Avari who were already east of the mountains have any ralationship with the dwarves? I don't remember. It's been a while since I've read the Sil.

:)

[Beleg]

It is hinted that Orcs were Avari who were corrupted and mutilated by Morgoth in the pits of Utumno. Though an alternative solution is offered in Myths Transformed (HoME X), I find this one plausible and quite to my liking. Which do you prefer (regardless of the fact which theory might be 'right' or 'canon' !)?
Regardless of Canon, I prefer this solution too. Seems more likely and logical, seeing that the Orcs alone were never a problem for the elves. Why were the Elves of Ossiriand light-armed? They were in contact both with the Naugrim and with Thingol's people, and if the former refused to give them better armour, Thingol's people at least would give them this, since they were close kin.

Perhaps these people didn't give much heed towards weapons and things of that sorts, being more engrossed in the lighter matters? Perhaps they were more adept in forest warfare and had lighter weapons more suitble for Forest Warfare then open land fight. Did the Sindar or Avari who were already east of the mountains have any ralationship with the dwarves? I don't remember. It's been a while since I've read the Sil.

Dwarves would surely have met elves (Avari) before entering into Beleriand.