TTF/Wiki FAQs need your help!

[Idril]

Some of you may know, I am trying to set up an FAQ for the forum. Nom has produced a question bank and I would like for volunteers to help with the answers.

The thread is here:
http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11885

Thanks in advance for your help in this project:)

(Please don't post on this thread for question request)

[Elendil3119]

Would anyone like to help me out on the FAQ I'm writing on Orcs? The topics I have so far for the essay are:

- What is the origin of Orcs?
- How do Orcs reproduce?
- Are Orcs immortal?
- What's the difference between goblins and orcs?
- Uruks vs. Uruk-hai

Feel free to add more topics to this FAQ. As of today I've compeleted 'How do Orcs reproduce?', 'Are Orcs immortal', and 'What's the difference between goblins and orcs?'.

Goblins vs. Orcs:

In The Hobbit, Tolkien uses “goblin” and “orc” interchangeably. They are just different words for the same race of creatures.
"[The word 'Orc'] occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)."(From the Forward to The Hobbit)
Also the Orcs (goblins) and other monsters….. (From Letter #131)
Orcs (the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitability) are nowhere clearly stated to be of any particular origin. But since they are servants of the Dark Power, and later of Sauron, neither of whom could, or would, produce living things, they must be 'corruptions'. They are not based on direct experiance of mine; but owe, I suppose, a good deal to the goblin tradition (goblin is used as a translation in The Hobbit, where orc only occurs once, I think), especially as it appears in George MacDonald, except for the soft feet which I never believed in. The name has the form orch (pl. yrch) in Sindarin and uruk in the Black Speech. (From Letter #141)
Tolkien never really made the distinction between “orcs” and “goblins”. On clear example of this is from the chapter, The Riders of Rohan in The Two Towers.
Upon a stake in the middle was set a great goblin head; upon its shattered helm the white badge could still be seen.
The white badge on the helmet makes it all but certain that this was the head of one of Saruman’s troops, the large Uruk-hai. In fact, it is quite likely that it was the head of Ugluk himself, slain in a sword-to-sword fight with Eomer at the end of the battle. If Ugluk was called a goblin, any orc could be.

In conclusion, it is possible that Tolkien used the word “goblin” in The Hobbit because of the audience that he was aiming at. It would be easier for a child to relate to “goblin” than the foreign term “orc”.

Notes:
The source of the word "orc" is Beowulf: "orc-nass", translated as "death-corpses".



How do Orcs reproduce?

For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar… (The Silmarillion)
Although there is no mention of female orcs in any of Tolkien’s writings, there is no evidence otherwise. I believe that a female orc would look almost exactly the same as a male orc, kind of like the similarity between female and male dwarves.

Are Orcs immortal?
Whatever their origins, Orcs are not immortal.
They needed food and drink, and rest, though many were by training as tough as Dwarves in enduring hardship. They could be slain, and they were subject to disease; but apart from these ills they died and were not immortal, even according to the manner of the Quendi; indeed they appear to have been by nature short-lived compared with the span of Men of higher race, such as the Edain. (Text X, ‘Myth’s Transformed’, HoMe 10)


Criticism is welcome. :) Please post anything that you think should be included.

[Lhunithiliel]

Well, that was a nice post, Elendil :)

I only would very much wonder on the subject of how Orcs reproduce.
The way their existance came to be have never made me think that they actually reproduced among themselves.
You said it yourself a bit earlier:
The source of the word "orc" is Beowulf: "orc-nass", translated as "death-corpses".
This is what they were... This is what they were made like...
I have always thought that Melkor/Sauron/Saruman just "produced" as many of them as they needed.
Which leads to the question:
The way orcs, dwarves and some other creatures were created.... why does it remind me of the very old idea, so well developed in the tale of Dr.Frankesten? ;) :D >>> genetic engineering??? What was known about its opportunities at the time Tolkien wrote?

But ....these things are of course not to be discussed in a brief Q&A-type entry.

[Elendil3119]

Well, I don't think the 'fact' that Orcs reproduced "after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar" is affected by their origin, whatever it is. I agree that Melkor/Sauron/Sarumen bred Orcs:
Finally, there is a cogent point, though horrible to relate. It became clear in time that undoubted Men could under the domination of Morgoth or his agents in a few generations be reduced almost to the Orc-level of mind and habits; and then they would or could be made to mate with Orcs, producing new breeds, often larger and more cunning. There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age, Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Men-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men
treacherous and vile. [b]('Myth's Transformed', HoMe 10)
but I don't think that they 'produced' them in some sort of 'labratory environment', so to speak. ;) It was probably more like some sort of controlled breeding program, but not anything like PJ's portrayal of it. :eek: :rolleyes: