Guilid of Pagans and Wiccans

[spirit]

hi!
Is there any witches or pagans or wiccans here?
i thought i start this because there arnt any about this, just christians and shristians
And if you arnt and you are interested you can join!

(BTW if i offend anyone, i am sorry)

[Celebthôl]

Hewwo, ill join, im not either Pagan or Wiccan, but ill join coz you asked me to :)...so ill just...be here ;)

[spirit]

Hello!
ok! well, i will sent you the tarot readin tomorrow! is that fine?

[Celebthôl]

it surely is :), thankyee

[reem]

hello there! i'm not pagan or wiccan or anything, but it'll be very interesting to learn more about it:)
anyway, i think i'll post some questions about the Wiccan Rede now, wait a sec...
1-what is the Circle that has to be cast three times?
2-what's 'Deosil'?? it's line 6 in the Rede.
3-what are 'Widdershins'??
4-can you tell me more about the Lady??
that's all for now folks:) there's be more on the way:p
reem

[spirit]

3-what are 'Widdershins'?? Definition: Counter-clockwise. Used to describe movement around a circle during ritual.

what's 'Deosil'?? Definition: Clockwise. Used to describe movement around a circle during ritual.

what is the Circle that has to be cast three times well, i am not sure about that! might be something to do with the triple Goddess! :confused:

can you tell me more about the Lady what would you like to know! The Lady is the Goddess, depending on which Gods/Goddesses you ask hor help when you do spells etc! there is Egyptian, Celtic, Asian...etc

[Wolfshead]

I am neither pagan nor wiccan, but, the world of pagan I find very interesting. Quite a few of the bands I listen to are pagans, and produce some great music, and paganism is definately more interesting than Christianity :D So, while I'm not a pagan myself, it interests me. But wicca? Nah, in the words of King Arthur in The Holy Grail, it's silly.

[tookish-girl]

hi spirit, again, I'm not Wiccan, but my housemate is and I am interested in the subject.

So, I might skulk around here for a while, if that's okay! :)

[spirit]

this is confusing!So, while I'm not a pagan myself, it interests me. But wicca?
here:
Despite what you may have heard, the terms "Pagan" and "Wiccan" cannot be differentiated. I've heard people say, "I used to be Wiccan, but now, I'm Pagan." and vice versa. It's sad that people easily get these terms confused, and refuse to let go of such titles by which they identify themselves. The article I wrote, "What is Witchcraft" explains the origin of the word wicca. The article, "What is a Pagan" will explain further the ideas of paganism. With all that I've spoken on the subject, what more do I have to say? Wicca is an organized religion, where Paganism is not a religion at all. Every Wiccan is pagan, but not very Pagan is wiccan.

[reem]

hmm. correct me if i'm wrong but aren't all the religions (other than christianity, juedism and islam) are considered pagan religions?
reem

[spirit]

no! Hinduism isn't!

[reem]

really?! how come??
reem

[spirit]

Hinduism is totally different to wicca!

hmm. correct me if i'm wrong but aren't all the religions (other than christianity, juedism and islam) are considered pagan religions?
i dont think so! wiccan and paganisn (IMO) seems like a one of a kind of thing! Satanism is totally different! (in a way) I dont believe in Satan!

[reem]

ofcourse hinduism is different than wicca, but they still, i think, come under the heading of paganism. i've always understood paganism as anything that's not concerned with the woship of the One God (you can see that i concider christianity to be so also.).
reem

[Wolfshead]

Every Wiccan is pagan, but not very Pagan is wiccan To me, wiccan is making spells and stuff - all those people you see now doing that kind of thing - and I've yet to see it work. Paganism, and this is to me again, is more violent, you're looking at multiple gods of war, death and so on. Wicca (and this is how it's been conveyed to me) is the magic without the violence.

I don't believe in magic, though.

[reem]

paganism is just a wide heading for other religions other than the three i mentioned before. it doesn't matter what they beleieve as long as it doesn't include the believe in one diety or so, i think (though christianity is not included as a pagan religion).
maybe Spirit should post the Wiccan Rede here so you can have a better idea of what Wicca is.
reem

[spirit]

here is the Wiccan Rede

Bide ye Wiccan laws ye must,
in perfect love and perfect trust
Live ye must and let to live,
fairly take and fairly give
Form the circle thrice about,
to keep unwelcome spirits out
To bind the spell well every time,
let the spell be spake in rhyme
Soft of eye and light of touch,
speak ye little, listen much
Deosil go by the waxing moon,
sing and dance the Wiccan rune
Widdershins go by the waning moon,
chanting out the baleful tune
When the Lady's moon is new,
kiss the hand to her times two
When the moon rides at Her peak,
then the heart's desire seek
Heed the north wind's mighty gale,
lock the door and trim the sail
When the wind comes from the south,
love will kiss kiss thee on the mouth
When the wind blows from the west,
departed souls will have no rest
When the wind blows from the east,
expect the new and set the feast
Nine woods in the cauldron go,
burn them quick and burn them slow
Elder be the Lady's tree,
burn it not or cursed you'll be
When the wheel begins to turn,
soon the Beltain fires will burn
When the wheel has turned to Yule,
light the log the Horned One rules
Heed ye flower, bush and tree,
by the Lady blessed be
Where the rippling waters flow,
cast a stone and the truth you'll know
When you have and hold a need,
hearken not to others' greed
With a fool no season spend,
nor be counted as his friend
Merry meet and merry part,
bright the cheeks and warm the heart
Mind the threefold law ye should,
three times bad and three times good
When misfortune is anow,
wear the star upon thy brow
True in love you must ever be,
lest thy love be false to thee
These eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill,
An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will



that is the origional version

[Jesse]

I'll join this guild. I believe in the Great Spirit as the Creator of Heaven and Earth. I do not believe there is such a place as Hell or that there is a being known as Satan. I only believe in the Great Spirit and myself. So Wiccans, Witches, you are not sinning against the Creator! My people, the Cherokee, so many centuries ago, practiced witchcraft to serve their community. So we are not sinning. The Great Spirit did not say...."Thou Shalt Not Practice Witchcraft". :) The Holy Bible says that, but the Holy Bible is just a book that the needy go to for guidance.

[Jesse]

By the way,
Did you know that the very word Heaven means "Sky" ? So if there is a Heaven....then the Christians go to the sky. Just food for thought. I believe when I die, I will be reuinted with my family on a new Earth where there is only the Indians, animals, and the Great Spirit watching over us. I do not believe in a "Place in the sky". To me, that idea sounds strange. Again, this was just food for thought. Sorry for double-posting....

[reem]

Originally posted by Jesse
By the way,
Did you know that the very word Heaven means "Sky" ? So if there is a Heaven....then the Christians go to the sky. Just food for thought.

i have always attributed that to the lack of richness in the Englsih language.
reem

[Wolfshead]

Originally posted by reem
i have always attributed that to the lack of richness in the Englsih language. What? The English language is the richest there is!

[Idril]

Can I join? I'm into Paganism
Grandmother in law was a 'white witch' - she was a healer:)

What are we doing for tomorrow - The Summer Solstice?

As the sun spirals its longest dance,
Cleanse us
As nature shows bounty and fertility
Bless us
Let all things live with loving intent
And to fulfill their truest destiny
Taken from a Wiccan blessing for Summer

Any Idea, anyone?

[Wolfshead]

Human sacrifice? Joking...

[Idril]

Solstice, Midsummer or Litha means a stopping or standing still of the sun. It is the longest day of the year and the time when the sun is at its maximum elevation.

This date has had spiritual significance for thousands of years as humans have been amazed by the great power of the sun. The Celts celebrated with bonfires that would add to the sun’s energy, Christians placed the feast of St John the Baptist towards the end of June and it is also the festival of Li, the Chinese Goddess of light.

Like other religious groups, Pagans are in awe of the incredible strength of the sun and the divine powers that create life. For Pagans this spoke in the Wheel of the Year is a significant point. The Goddess took over the earth from the horned God at the beginning of spring and she is now at the height of her power and fertility. For some Pagans the Summer Solstice marks the marriage of the God and Goddess and see their union as the force that creates the harvest’s fruits.

This is a time to celebrate growth and life but for Pagans, who see balance in the world and are deeply aware of the ongoing shifting of the seasons it is also time to acknowledge that the sun will now begin to decline once more towards winter.

When celebrating midsummer Pagans draw on diverse traditions. In England thousands of Pagans and non-Pagans go to places of ancient religious sites such as Stonehenge and Avebury to see the sun rising on the first morning of summer. Many more Pagans hold small ceremonies in open spaces, everywhere from gardens to woodlands.

BBC

[reem]

Originally posted by CraigSmith
What? The English language is the richest there is!
err...no it's not:p
as much as i adore the English language, i must admit in allhonesty that it is indeed not hat rich when you compare it to other languages...like Arabic, for example...or even Herew or Japanese!! in Arabic there is about a hundred words for 'cloud' according to it's shape, colour, thickness, season and i don't know what else!! the Arabic dictionary is MUCH bigger than the English one and its grammar is ALOT more complicated!
...actually, that's why i preffer English sometimes, i find it much more simpler and easier to comprehend:)
reem

[Athelas]

Spirit, vis-a-vis your first post: you need never apologize for the Goddess or your beliefs.

I am an eclectic Witch. My path includes Hinduism, Zen Buddhism, and Gnostic Christianity as well.

Through this house each fairy stray.
To the best bride-bed will we,
Which by us shall blessed be;
And the issue there create
Ever shall be fortunate.
Oberon, MIDSUMMER NIGHT?S DREAM, V, i

Radiant Midsummer Night's Dreams to all.

[Beruthiel]

Bright Blessings to all for the Solstice!

[Jesse]

I think Spanish is the richest language and culture on Earth right now. Soon, Spanish will be the official language. It has been proven.....

[Athelas]

Traditional by Doreen Valiente,
as adapted by Starhawk

Listen to the words of the Great Mother, Who of old was called Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen, Diana, Arionrhod, Brigid, and by many other names:

Whenever you have need of anything, once a month, and better it be when the moon is full, you shall assemble in some secret place and adore the spirit of Me Who is Queen of all the Wise.

You shall be free from slavery, and as a sign that you be free you shall be naked in your rites.

Sing, feast, dance, make music and love, all in My Presence, for Mine is the ecstasy of the spirit and Mine also is joy on earth.

For My law is love is unto all beings. Mine is the secret that opens the door of youth, and Mine is the cup of wine of life that is the cauldron of Cerridwen, that is the holy grail of immortality.

I give the knowledge of the spirit eternal, and beyond death I give peace and freedom and reunion with those that have gone before.

Nor do I demand aught of sacrifice, for behold, I am the Mother of all things and My love is poured out upon the earth.

Hear the words of the Star Goddess, the dust of Whose feet are the hosts of Heaven, whose body encircles the universe:

I Who am the beauty of the green earth and the white moon among the stars and the mysteries of the waters,

I call upon your soul to arise and come unto me.

For I am the soul of nature that gives life to the universe.

From Me all things proceed and unto Me they must return.

Let My worship be in the heart that rejoices, for behold, all acts of love and pleasure are My rituals.

Let there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honor and humility, mirth and reverence within you.

And you who seek to know Me, know that the seeking and yearning will avail you not, unless you know the Mystery: for if that which you seek, you find not within yourself, you will never find it without.

For behold, I have been with you from the beginning, and I am That which is attained at the end of desire.
*******

Any Witches care to talk about the Rede or the Charge, I'm with you.

[spirit]

Sorry i have not bee here for a while. busy!

Welcome Athelas! Nice to see you here! :D

Originally posted by Idril
Can I join? I'm into Paganism
Yea sure you can join! This thread is for anyone and everyone!

I am an eclectic Witch. My path includes Hinduism, Zen Buddhism, and Gnostic Christianity as well. Cool! My beliefs are based on Wicca and Hinduism! My family is all hindus so i am one too but my best friend is a wiccan and hanging around with her got me into wicca! It is kinda weird to some people!
Blessed be!

[reem]

Originally posted by Athelas


You shall be free from slavery, and as a sign that you be free you shall be naked in your rites.


wow! now that's a scary thought~!!:p no just kidding just kidding! sorry about that! never mind me:) hehe:D osrry, continue continue:)
reem

[Jesse]

Does anyone know any Wiccan spells that can heal others?

[Athelas]

No prayer or spell from any religion should replace the advice of a medical doctor.

I find that some forums that are host to pagans and other magical types have a strict rule about never posting spells and there are many reasons for that. I am sure that many healing spells exist, in all languages, but I have never used a written or memorized spell for healing.

The best spells are the ones you compose yourself, just as your best wand would be one you make yourself, as with a medicine bag or any of your magical tools.

I find that intense prayer, inflamed with Love is the best spell; prayer directed to your own patron deity, but also to the patient's deity.

I believe that the best way to cast a spell is by singing. Harnessing the power of a storm is a very potent way to cast a spell, and singing during a storm, I find to be the strongest of all.

I might be able to be more specific if I know what spiritual path you are on right now. Cherokee Shamanism?

[spirit]

Well, this is really stupid, (if you have not tried it!) If you read Silver RavenWolf's book it might explain it better! (This is the only book of her's I thought was good!) It's calles angels!
If you read it it gives you ways youcan heal the person! i have my own method though! it is really a spell either! you dont need candles or herbs if you dont want o use them!

[Jesse]

I am sort of looking into Shamanism. No specific branch, but Shamanism in general. I believe in the Great Spirit as the Creator of Earth & I believe strongly in magick. If you wish, I'll post my belief statement....it's up to y'all. :)

[spirit]

I believe in the Great Spirit as the Creator of Earth :D i believe in something similar to that! And Jesse, i would love to hear your brief statemant! I am sure we all would!

[Jesse]

Hi Spirit,
Well, it isn't brief. It is very detailed. Here I go:



MY STATEMENT OF FAITH:


ON THE CREATOR:

I believe the Creator is known as the Great Spirit. The Great Spirit is genderless. With this being said, the Great Spirit is neither mother nor father. The Great Spirit is just that. A Spirit. It does not demand worship, prayer, or praise. The Great Spirit does not demand sacrificial services in order to forgive one’s sins. There are many names for the Great Spirit, such as God, Allah, Yahwaeh (sp?), etc. What the Great Spirit only demands is you obey it’s 28 commandments, & that you believe it is the Creator. The Great Spirit chooses not to intervene with its creation because they have ignored their maker, sinned against the Spirit, & refuse to accept other beliefs. Thus, this has made the Great Spirit sad and disappointed. Now that the Great Spirit is sad, it chooses not to intervene with mankind unless the situation calls for it.

The Great Spirit is the same God of the Israelites. The Spirit lead the Israelites out of Egypt, freed them from slavery, made them wander the deserts for 40 years, and then finally allowed them to come to the Promised Land. The Great Spirit is the same God who gave the Israelis the 10 commandments, King Solomon, & all the kings of old. The Great Spirit is actually an extraterrestrial being somewhere in the universe watching over it’s creation. Being an alien, the Great Spirit is all-powerful, mighty, just, and holy.

ON JESUS CHRIST

Jesus Christ was a prophet, who spoke the words of truth for the peoples of his day and age. Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, for we all are sons and daughters of the Great Spirit. Jesus Christ claimed to be the Son of the highest God to get more followers, etc. Since the Great Spirit is an extraterrestrial, Mary conceived Jesus Christ in her womb by the Great Spirit who had with her, thus having her become pregnant. Jesus Christ started the Christian faith and then died on a cross on Golgatha.

Jesus Christ did not rise from the grave as the Apostles claimed. They all were hallucinating the image of Jesus Christ. In Jesus’ day, the Pharisee’s were in charge and they stole the body of Jesus Christ and burned it so it the tomb would appear empty. Jesus Christ was just a mere human being, with a touch of divine influence. He was not the Son of God; instead, he is merely a prophet. Just like Muhammed, & Moses.

ON RELIGION:

There is no one true faith and/or religion. All religions lead to the Creator, even if the faith has many gods & goddesses. Christianity has made the claim that it is the one and only faith when this cannot be so. Jesus Christ said that He is the only way to the Father. The reason he said this was because he wanted people to believe in him as the Son of God. Jesus Christ, like Muhammed, wanted followers & was a prophet of the Great Spirit. Since there are over a dozen religions on Earth, they all lead to the Creator. They just choose to call the Creator a different name. The only false religion is Satanism. This is because Satan does not exist, for Satan is a state of mind. Just like Hell.

ON SATAN:

Satan is a state of mind. The mind is an amazing tool; it can make us think Satan is tempting us. Satan is like the Boogy-man, and Santa Clause. He is something the Christian world made up to make people believe in Christianity and Christ’s authority. As of 6/25/03, no one has come face to face with the Devil. However people have met the Great Spirit in dreams, visions, etc. With the fact being said that Satan is a state of mind, that means our mind is Satan, and we are Satan. We are our own Lucifer. Each of us is Satan, which is scary to think about, but one must acknowledge this fact.

An argument could be arisen with the belief that we are Satan. If we are Satan, than we are God. God too is a state of mind, except the belief in a Creator, and/or Great Spirit requires faith. There is no reason to believe in a Satan. Our choices determine our destiny. We can live in fear of Satan our whole lives, then we would die and find out Satan didn’t exist. How stupid we would feel! So, all in all, Satan is a state of mind. Which proves, that Satan does not exist as a real figure. Rather, Satan is a mental figure.

ON HELL

Hell, like Satan, is a state of mind. One can believe Hell exists and it brings forth confusion, anger, & depression. Most Christians believe Hell is a place of chopping teeth and screams of pain. This is true, except Hell is in the mind. The mind can produce feelings of sadness, anger, fear, & confusion. Some might say, these feelings would be found in Hell. Whenever one experiences these feelings, it feels like Hell. Hell is indeed, very real, except it is in the mind. It is not, I repeat, NOT a physical place, which one can see. It is an emotional place. There are no flames coming up from the Earth, no demons poking at you, & no burning flesh, so don’t worry.

ON HEAVEN

Being a UFO believer, and being a non-believer in a Heaven, I believe the very word Heaven is not the proper terminology for the afterlife. The very word Heaven, as quoted from the Dictionary means this:

1. The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. Often used in the plural.
2. Christianity.
a. Often Heaven The abode of God, the angels, and the souls of those who are granted salvation.
b. An eternal state of communion with God; everlasting bliss.
3. Any of the places in or beyond the sky conceived of as domains of divine beings in various religions.

Notice I highlighted the words “The sky or universe as seen from the Earth; the firmament” in bold font. This is something to think about: If this is what the word Heaven means, then Heaven is the sky, and that’s where the Christians go. I believe in a place after death, another Earth, where the animals, the Great Spirit, & the humans live peacefully. All religious followers are on this planet, and everyone lives in harmony. Until the end of the universe, if you will. This is my faith statement. I hope you enjoyed reading it, and your comments are welcome as I always am making improvements.

[spirit]

Hehe!
Thank you for the brief posting! lol! But i found that really intresting! I have similar beliefs to you! I dont believe in Satan and that kind of thinks! But what you said about the Great Spirit! (God). He is the creator!
:D

[Jesse]

Indeed,
The Great Spirit IS the Creator Spirit. PRAISE THE LORD! Sorry, just had to get that out. :) Where can I find more information on Shamanism?

[Athelas]

I recommend:

Fire in the Head by Tom Cowan

By Joseph Campbell:
The Masks of God
Transformations of Myth Through Time
The Hero with a Thousand Faces

Doesn't it seem pointless to bicker over which name the creator prefers?

Godspeed on your path, Jesse. The road less traveled is always more of an adventure.
:)

[reem]

:confused: wow!! Jesse that was....interesting!! i never thought of God as an extraterrestrial!!!
i was kind of nodding my head in agreement to what you said in the beggining but then i was like "er???!" hehe!:p
well, i don't think my religion can be considered as a pagan religion, but i do believe in God, Allah, who created the universe and is not an extraterrestrial, he is niether a 'he' or a 'she', but for some reason we have addopted the 'he' when speaking of God.
he created the universe and that's in it, thus we believe that we are his creation, not his children. that's too familliar and romantic a word for it.
we beleieve in angels, judgement day, and his prophets (which include Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed and many others that i don't know how to translate their names into the English version:p) and his books (the torrah, the bible and the qoran).
we believe that the message sent to us from God is only to believe in Him, the One God, and to be good to others and ourselves. that means living honestly and decently and doing good and so on and so forth.
....we don't believe that Jesus was God's son, since he has no relations or family members:p;) and we don't believe that Jesus claimed that either, nor that he was crusified.
my theory about how Jesus suddenly became Gods son was that when Christianity reached Europe it got mingled with the older European beliefs, since they were unable to fathom such a concept as one god and with nother rivals or sons or daughters or anything.
it's a very natural thing and is expected, since all new religions get mingled with the old ones one way or another. for example, take hallaween:) that was taken from Samhane or soemthing like that, which was an old pagan ritual or something that's connected to the other world or something of the sort. it's not a christian concept at all, and it's a wonder christians (who denounce paganism) actually celebrate it with as much zest as can be shown:p! such examples can be given on all of the three religions (islam and Jeudism and christianity). it's not an uncommon thing.
anyway, that's just what i think.
reem

[Jesse]

Reem,
If you read the account of Elijah and when he was taken up into heaven in a chariot of fire, the chariot is similar to a UFO abduction case...just something to ponder.

[reem]

that might be very well if i actually had a copy of the Bible or actually read it...or infact, if i believed that it hadn't been altered in some places. but until that time, i request keeping the liberty of being a skeptic:):p
reem
ps
though it is a good theory in itself;)

[Jesse]

The Truth Message For Mankind:

Hello,
Last night the Great Spirit told me my calling was to be a prophet. Yes, a prophet like Elijah, Moses, etc. This is the message the Spirit told me last night:

The Great Spirit is God, yet it does not demand worship, prayer (although praying to the Great Spirit IS encouraged), & it does not demand obedience. This is because mankind is sinful & disobedient. Often times, the Great Spirit stays away from mankind. The Indians and Conservationists are the only people with whom the Great Spirit dwells with. Salvation can come unto those who ask the Great Spirit for forgiveness. Then they are in harmony with nature, the universe, the world, & their Creator. The Old Testament, except for the book of Genesis is the Divine Word. The Koran is also holy, for it is the Spirit's words to mankind. All religious books are "holy".

The reason the Great Spirit (God) refuses to make contact with it's Creation is because of the constant bickering over which religion is the true faith, who is the true God, etc. Not to mention it is saddened by the fact that MAN has destroyed their wonderful Earth and the planet's inhabitants (animals). This has caused the Great Spirit great sadness, disappointment, & even some anger. This is a time of serious testing. The Great Spirit is testing mankind to see if they are obedient.

The Spirit told me that mankind must learn to obey these 28 commandments:

[b]
1- Thou shall not sneak out while parents are asleep.

2- Thou shall not do or use alcohol.

3- Thou shall not do anything that harms another.

4- Thou shall not steal.

5- Thou shall not get in fights.

6- Thou shall not break the law, which is given to the peoples of the Earth.

7- Thou shall not think about immoral things.

8-Thou shall not disobey these commandments.

9-Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself.

10-Thou shall not covet.

11-Thou shall not be jealous.

12-Thou shall not have anger.

13-Thou shall not commit ery.

14-Thou shall not lie.

15-Thou shall not destroy wildlife and the Earth.

16-Thou shall not bash out against other believers in a different faith.

17-Thou shall not discuss your faith in places which discussing any faith is illegal.

18-Thou shall not disobey their parents.

19-Thou shall not have any gods before me

20-Thou shall not value earthly possessions.

21-Thou shall not disobey authority.

22-Thou shall not do, think, or act unholy.

23-Thou shall not disobey your Creator.

24-Thou shall not divorce your wife.

25-Thou shall honor the privacy of your boyfriend/girlfriend/partner/husband/wife.

26-Thou shall have fun in life.

27-Thou shall obey the LORD your God.

28-Thou shall obey the laws of your family without question.

I am not trying to be a Buddha, Jesus Christ, or Billy Graham here. My job is just to keep sharing this message of peace, & hope. For there is hope & it can be found in this one place:


THE AFTERLIFE


Live life to it's fullest. Have fun, create, share love. Obey the 28 commandments, & believe in the Great Spirit. Other than that, there are no laws for us to follow. How hard is it for mankind to obey 28 commandments? All I ask is that you trust in the Great Spirit. For the afterlife gives one hope that one day they will be reuinted with their family, friends, etc. on a new Earth. Remember this:


We are only passing through this world. Let's live life to it's fullest till it's time for us to depart.

[FREEDOM!]

Jesus Christ did not rise from the grave as the Apostles claimed. They all were hallucinating the image of Jesus Christ. In Jesus’ day, the Pharisee’s were in charge and they stole the body of Jesus Christ and burned it so it the tomb would appear empty. Jesus Christ was just a mere human being, with a touch of divine influence. He was not the Son of God; instead, he is merely a prophet. Just like Muhammed, & Moses.

Did you know that the life, death, and resurrection is better documented than Shakespear's works?

It wasn't the Apostles that were Jesus's 12 best friends, they were the Disciples.

By saying that they hallucinated you are saying that Mary started hallucinating when she went to the tomb, then the disciples hallucinate, wait Thomas wasn't there, so they start the hallucination again for Thomas's sake. Then the 500 people Jesus visited after He rose from the dead hallucinated! Seems a bit odd doesn't it?

And the pharisees hated Jesus, after killing he was crucified they didn't want Him to raise from the dead, the too denied it! So why would they burn the body and make it look like he rose from the dead?

And how many commandments of those have you broken?

[Jesse]

Well,
Today I became an Atheist. I just can't believe in a higher power. It's too...confusing and mind boggling. I AM PROUD to be an Atheist. So Spirit, cancel my membership. Thanks

[reem]

....er...that was very enlightening!!!
....no comment....
reem

[Athelas]

Pay no attention to the jerk jerking his chain. That's probably all he'll ever be capable of.;)

[Ciryaher]

I am responding to a reported post. Please keep your tones both civil and respectful; religious discussions in particular.

On a side note, Jesse, you perplex me.

Thank you.

[spirit]

lol! alrite
7- Thou shall not think about immoral things. i dontlike this rule! And i am glad i dont follow it! :rolleyes: ...vampires...

[Wolfshead]

Whee... I'm 16 and I've so far broken 21 of 28 commandments... Oh well, I'll get by :rolleyes:

Anyone seen Stigmata? If I was more impressionable, I might well have been converted by it - it's certainly left me with some questions. And has anyone heard of the gospel that was mentioned at the end?

[Athelas]

Gospel of Thomas saying 77b.
Jesus said: "Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there."

http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/thomas/stigmata.htm

Jesus had a sense of humor that is lost in most of the Gospels: "One does not have to disfigure one's face to see the kingdom of heaven." In other words, you don't need to squint to look for heaven in the clouds, because it is all around you.

Or as the Goddess would say: "It that which you seek, you find not within yourself, you will never find it without."

[spirit]

the whole point of the thread (for me) was to get away from the bible...oh well...:rolleyes:

does anyone do spells here? or other things? like tarot or runes...?

[Athelas]

Originally posted by CraigSmith
Paganism, and this is to me again, is more violent, you're looking at multiple gods of war, death

Most Pagan pantheons will have only one god or goddess of war and one of death as distinct, individual deities. In the Greek, Ares is the god of War, and Hades is the God of the Underworld, for example. The real litmus test lies in the behaviour of their worshippers. I don't often hear that any of the inbred neanderthals bombing abortion clinics are Pagan; in fact I've never heard of any threat to my country from Pagan Terrorists at all.

[spirit]

what country do you come from?

[reem]

a very safe one, apparently!!:p
reem

[spirit]

did anyone see the moon yesterdsay? it was really weird colour. like a orangey color. or was it just me being weird?

[reem]

hehehe:pmaybe it's just the pollution kicking in:0:phehe!
reem

[spirit]

wasnt like that today!:confused: weird?

so does anyone do spell? or tarot?

[Talierin]

The moon turns orange when it's low in the sky from being seen through all the atmosphere and pollution. It also appears to be bigger ;) I've seen it almost red once, rather cool

[spirit]

actually it was pretty high up in the sky i think. never seen it like that before tho....

[Talierin]

How high?

[spirit]

well, i aint really sure, i dint take a ruler and start measuring. lol
but it seened pretty highish to me!

[reem]

here's something that i came across while reading 'tom jones':
can honor exist appart from religion?? and can an ill-character (i.e.theifs and muderers) have honor?? and isn't honor more connected to human-nature than anything else??
...should i start another thread for this or do we discuss this here...that's if any one wants to even discuss it:p
spirit? what do u think?
reem

[spirit]

ya might as well just discuss it here reem. :D

i dont think thieves should have honour. they dont really deserve it. the living they make is not because of their hard work or anythink like that...:rolleyes:

[reem]

define honor?
reem

[spirit]

many ways.
one of them is when you do something great and people look up to you for that.
many other ways too.
but the thieves dont deserve honour because they get rich by just stealing, not because of their hard work and therefore they have nothing to be proud of! :o

[reem]

well, Robin Hood was a thief, and yet, many take him as a symbol of honor and honesty!
reem

[Jesse]

May I re-join this guild? I feel I need to accquant (sp?) with the world religions if my evangelism is to be successful. I need to see things from their point of view....

[spirit]

sure Jesse! All is welcome here!

and reem :), my dear mental friend, (hehe) :D, robin hood stole for a reason. that is ok, because he was stealing TO HELP OTHERS!! not just for himself you know. but the king (dunno kis name) stole from the poor, for him self!

and since robin hooh HELPED people, he shouldhabve honour, which he did!

[Mithrandread]

I was wandering, as is my wont, and I came into this noble Hall. Permit me to make an observation, and to ask a question:

I find it fascinationg that when one speaks of paganism, one immediately thinks of Western European spirituality and traditions. It appears that no one thinks of the great African beliefs and traditions, except to mock or slander them. Is there anyone who is familiar with some of the African or Native American spiritual traditions, as these are the two primary cultures to which I belong.

I have some iformation, but not much.

I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone...

[reem]

ehm..u know spirit, ithink i'll open another thread for this one...it's gonna take alot of space!@...or so I think!hehe! feel free to join, i'd love to argue a few points on human nature with u!:p;)
reem

[Athelas]

Yes, honor can exist apart from religion. It is very elusive to define. For me, it starts with Truth. Being true to others and especially as a Witch, it means being true to my word; never to break an oath, a vow, or a promise. Honor is something that no one can ever take from you; only you can cast it from yourself.

[Athelas]

In other threads I have stated that I am both a Witch and a Gnostic Christian. I think the following will show how the ends of both faiths are the same.

Ecclesia Gnostica

There is an original and transcendental spiritual unity which came to emanate a vast manifestation of pluralities.

The manifest universe of matter and mind (psyche) was not created by the original spiritual unity but by spiritual beings possessing inferior powers.

These creators possessing inferior powers have as one of their objectives the perpetual separation of humans from the unity (God).

The human being is a composite, the outer aspect being the handiwork of the inferior creators, while the "inner man" has the character of a fallen spark of the ultimate divine unity.

The fallen sparks of transcendental holiness slumber in their material and mental prison, their self-awareness stupefied by forces of materiality and mind.

The slumbering sparks have not been abandoned by the ultimate unity, rather there is a constant effort forthcoming from this unity that is directed toward their awakening and liberation.

The awakening of the inmost divine essence in humans is effected by salvific knowledge, called Gnosis.

Salvific knowledge, or Gnosis, is not brought about by belief, or the performance of virtuous deeds, or by obedience to commandments, for these can at best but serve as preparatory circumstances leading toward liberating knowledge.

Among the helpers of the slumbering sparks a particular position of honor and importance belongs to a feminine emanation of the unity. The name of this emanation is Sophia (Wisdom). She was involved in the creation of the world and ever since remained the guide of her orphaned human children.

From the earliest times of history, messengers of light have been sent forth from the ultimate unity. The task of these messengers has ever been the advancement of Gnosis in the souls of humans.

The greatest of these messengers in our historical and geographical matrix was the descended Logos of God, manifesting in Jesus Christ.

Jesus exercised a twofold ministry: He was a teacher, imparting instruction concerning the way of Gnosis, and he was a hierophant, imparting mysteries.

The mysteries imparted by Jesus (which are also known as sacraments) are mighty aids toward Gnosis and have been entrusted by him to his apostles and to their successors.

By way of the spiritual practice of the mysteries (sacraments) and by a relentless and uncompromising striving for Gnosis, humans can steadily advance toward liberation from all confinement, material and otherwise.
The ultimate objective of this process of liberation is the achievement of salvific knowledge and with it freedom from embodied existence and return to the ultimate unity.

[spirit]

intresting...

well sorry i aint been here for a long time!
i m bach tho!
:)

[Freawine]

I was actually looking for a mythology guild, but this one will do fine, I guess. I'm not a wiccan, but a reconstructionist heathen, i.e., follow a reconstruction of pre-Christian Germanic religion, mostly known as Asatru, although this name is better applied to the specificly Norse branche. If you're wondering what a recon pagan is, try this:

http://www.ecauldron.com/reconindex.php

I focus mainly on scandinavian traditions and practices - well at least my patron god had a greater worship emphasis in Sweden - though I use an Old English nickname and may use germanic non-scandinavian material if it proves useful.

I hope to find some interesting debates here on pre-Christian religions and mythologies (and some nice people too, of course). Made a general reading of all the posts here and I' ll reply to some of them.

Wassail!

[Athelas]

>well at least my patron god had a greater worship emphasis in Sweden<

Who?

Asatru always have the best mead.

Welcome.

[Freawine]

Greetings Athelas,

Originally posted by Athelas
Most Pagan pantheons will have only one god or goddess of war and one of death as distinct, individual deities. In the Greek, Ares is the god of War, and Hades is the God of the Underworld, for example.

Actually that's not exactly true. Pagan patheons can have more than one god or goddess of war, as with most other fuctions. Using the Greeks as an example as you did, Athena is also a goddess of war and many other gods - such as Zeus - are warriors as well. Hades is a different thing, since he got the Underworld after a division of the world between three gods: Zeus got the heavens, Posidon the sea and Hade the world bellow. And there may a difference between beyond a god of the realm of the dead and being one of death. Demeter, for instance, could have a role of death goddess, naturally coming from her agricultural function.

In terms of Scandinavian mythology, you can find Odin, Freya, Thor and Tyr as gods of war in one way or another. Odin and Freya are in many ways death god and goddess, while there's Hella, goddess of the underworld.

Godly functions are not easily set into strict and simple forms of god of A and goddess of B.

Wassail!

[Freawine]

The god Freyr: he was see as the divine ancestor of the Swedish royal family. My nickname translates as "Lord's friend", which may end up being "Freyr's friend", since His name is actually a title meaning precisely "Lord".

And thank you for your welcoming.

Wassail!

[Freawine]

Hello spirit,

Originally posted by spirit
Hinduism is totally different to wicca!

i dont think so! wiccan and paganisn (IMO) seems like a one of a kind of thing! Satanism is totally different! (in a way) I dont believe in Satan!

Reem is right: Hinduism can fall into the paganism category. The same thing for Satanism and everysingle non-abrahamic religion. It so happens that pagan and paganism, in terms of its religious conotation, is a negative definition, i.e., it says what X isn't, not what it is. Here's a bit of history.

Pagan comes from latim paganu which means something like country-dweller. It's origin is pre-Christian and Roman civilization, being proeminently urban, would look at rural folk in a depreciatory manner. We still have something of this with peasants and folk from out of town. The word had no considerable religious meaning until the coming of Christianity. What happened then was that at one point of the conversion process there was a general division: the cities were mainly Christians - centers of power and cultural dissemination - while pre-Christian religions survived in the country areas, where comunication, access and culture diffusion was much more difficult. So the word paganu kept its negative meaning, but with an extra: a religious sense. Pagan isn't country-dweller because paganism is a nature religion - which by the way is incorrect anyway - but because it was in the rural area that pre-Christian religions persisted longer: besides being peasants they now were also non-christians, thus a pagan, originally, is a non-christian. By extension it may also refer to someone that's not a muslim or a jew.

Since it's a negative definition, anything not christian, muslim or jew is pagan and paganism, to the point that it's impossible to define a religion simply as being paganism. And no, it's not an equivalent for polytheism: Zoroastrianism is not an abrahamic religion.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.ecauldron.com/newpagan.php

Wassail!