Discussion: The Elves and Ents

[Anamatar IV]

*Please note that due to the ongoing debate tournament, this thread is subject to being closed for the duration of a debate.

Still, I take more kindly to Elves than to others: it was the Elves that cured us of dumbness long ago, and that was a great gift that cannot be forgotten, though our ways have parted since.

~Treebeard, The Two Towers.

The Elves cured the Ents of dumbness long ago. What does this mean exactly? After giving this thought, the most obvious answer is that the Elves "awoke" the Ents. Yet, as Manwe says in the Silmarillion, the Ents awoke when or soon after the Elves did. So how did the Elves "awake" the Ents? Is it a misinterpretation of the text? If so, what could the above quote be referring to?

ps. I'll wait before giving my opinion.:D

[Maeglin]

Well I'm back for a day or 2, and since no one seems to be giving any thoughts on this, I guess I will, but bear in mind, like many things I say, this is just a far-fetched theory I have for now with absolutely no evidence to try and back it up.:D
But I think that perhaps the Elves unintentionally woke up the Ents. The Elves, when first coming to life in Middle-earth, certainly would have needed a place to live (i.e. shelter). So just maybe the Elves, in their attempts to build shelter for themselves, cut down a fair few trees, and thereby got the ents pretty ticked off and woke them up. However, I doubt that is how it happened, because as Treebeard says in the quote, he is thankful to the elves, I don't think he'd be thankful if the elves had cut down a buch of his trees.;)

[Celebthôl]

my guess, from being maraudering hunks off wood that killed all living things the elves taught them language about what was good and bad...something like that...

[BlackCaptain]

From The LEtters of J.R.R. Tolkien; Letter 153
Treebeard does not say that the Dark Lord 'created' Trolls and Orcs. He says he 'made' them in counterfeit of certain creatures pre-existing. There is, to me, a wide gulf between the two statements, so wide that Treebeard's statement could (in my world) have possibly been true. It is not true actually of the Orcs - who are fundamentally a race of 'rational incarnate' creatures, though horribly corrupted, if no more so than many Men to be met today. Treebeard is a character in my story, not me; and though he has a great memory and some earthy wisdom, he is not one of the Wise, and there is quite a lot he does not know or understand.

I think basicaly what Tolkien's saying there is that Treebeard is stupid, go with the Silmarillion:D ;) :p .

[Bethelarien]

Nice, BC. :D Very nice.

I believe it's stated somewhere (can't find the reference right now) that the Elves first taught the Ents to speak. Perhaps that is what was meant.

[Maeglin]

You're most likely right Beth, as the word "dumb" can mean both stupid or the literal meaning, which is the inability to speak.;)

[Bethelarien]

Of course I'm right, Glorfindel. When am I not? (Don't answer that.)

The Two Towers, Chapter IV: Treebeard
Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk.

[Maeglin]

Yes of course you were right Beth. When are you not? I won't answer that, but that's the type of thing I would say, I fear that some of my arrogance may have rubbed off on you before I left, or maybe you have just taken my place as the arrogant member of TTF.:D :p

[Anamatar IV]

Congradulations, Beth, you have answered the question.:D

Now to go wonder why when I searched my e-copy for the word awoke I didn't search for the other forms of the word...:p

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
Congradulations, Beth, you have answered the question.:D

Now to go wonder why when I searched my e-copy for the word awoke I didn't search for the other forms of the word...:p

I thought you already knew that Ana?! :eek:

[BlackCaptain]

Originally posted by Bethelarien
Nice, BC. :D Very nice.

Yay! I think that Tree-Beard was wrong though... Tolkien pretty much says he is right there.