Outcasts' views on love?

[Eriol]

That book is "The Four Loves".

I always was the "perceptive boy", since I was very, very young (my first "amazing mind-reading", as my mom calls it, was at 7). And 20 years later I must confess I hardly have a clue about women :D.

Woman was not made to be understood, she was made to be loved (quote from favorite Brazilian poet). That's the depth of my understanding of women...

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by Talierin
*sniffles* my bf is so sweet.... yesterday was our 6 month anniversary, woohoo, and he called, and it was just... nice :)

Awww, so sweet. Now I'll have to mess with him...a little, not too much though.

*Thinks Tal is a copycat by quoting from a Philmore song.*
*Starts singing Philmore song, Tal got it stuck in my head.*

[Talierin]

HEY! No messing with my guy!

Yeah, I'm a copycat :D Except I haven't actually heard the song... can't seem to find that one to download... Livin' on a Prayer is the one that gets stuck in my head all the time, it's too catchy!

[Kailita]

Originally posted by Eriol
I always was the "perceptive boy", since I was very, very young (my first "amazing mind-reading", as my mom calls it, was at 7). And 20 years later I must confess I hardly have a clue about women :D.

Woman was not made to be understood, she was made to be loved (quote from favorite Brazilian poet). That's the depth of my understanding of women...
I think we could probably turn that quote around and say the same thing about men. I don't know...I guess I just don't understand what it is about females that just mystifies males...I want them to understand that we're not so confusing if they pay attention and we're really not so mystifying. But maybe that's what attracts men to women in the first place...the whole mystifying quality...heh, I really don't know. :rolleyes: Maybe I'll change my mind in 20 years anyway. :D

[BranMuffin]

Originally posted by Talierin
HEY! No messing with my guy!

Yeah, I'm a copycat :D Except I haven't actually heard the song... can't seem to find that one to download... Livin' on a Prayer is the one that gets stuck in my head all the time, it's too catchy!

Psst. I have the CD. If you want I'll get Mac to send it to you. Livin' on a prayer was a Bon Jovi song originally.

I only mess with him in good fun though.

[Talierin]

ooooooo, yeah, cd piracy sounds good! :D

[Arathin]

Yay for cd piracy... in fact, it is the reason I have almost all my cd's.... hmm... maybe that's a bad thing.... nah!!!

also on topic... I have a question... whom here believes it is possible to have a steady relationship with a boy that you were friends with when the relationship was started for ... shall we say other than proper reasons??? will that get me warned??? I hope not... I'm trying to be good...

[Dragon]

um? that's a little confusing, I can't think of something u would do w/ a friend that would cause u 2 bc more than friends taht isn't proper...:confused: :confused: :confused:

but I do think u can have a relationship w/ sum1 u were friends w/ b4

[Arathin]

*sighs* relationships are confusing... this is why I don't usually bother with men at all other than simply as friends... in fact, I don't usually bother with anyone other than as simply friends unless they are family or worth the effort... thing is I know one guy that is and lives too far away and another that isn't overly worth it but is trying to get me to go out with him... I hate when this thing happens and it always happens to me too.

[Kailita]

Ummm..."other than proper" reasons? You'll have to be more specific. But then again, maybe you shouldn't...:rolleyes:

Relationships really shouldn't be confusing...but I guess, inevitably, that all are in some way or another. I don't know these people, so maybe I shouldn't say anything, but my first instinct is to tell you not to go out with the guy who's not overly worth it, Arathin. Too many people go out just to go out. Ugh. But...I don't know...maybe if you get to know him, you'll change your mind. I'm not sure...it's probably one of those things where you just have to know the person...:rolleyes:

[Arathin]

probably... *sigh* I hate relationships...

[Kailita]

Life is all about relationships...they are the most important things you can build here on Earth. But I suppose you are referring to a different kind of relationship - the one that I refer to as The Evil R-Word. ;) (There are actually a lot of Evil R-Words...words that used to be all right, but then were warped and taken out of their correct context and made into something that they're not supposed to be...relationship, romance, religion...) With those kind of relationships, you just have to be cautious. You have to know the other person well, and know yourself even better. It takes a level of maturity on both sides.

[Arebeth]

I really don't know much about relationships. I'm sixteen and I suppose that I hardly have an idea of what most of twelve-year-old girls know. Well, it's always been like that, I've been some kind of asocial child since kindergarten. But it's still frightening.
I've heard some brilliant psychologists saying some brilliant things about how the fact of being-too-developed-for-his-age (intellectually) or something like that can be bad for a child's social developement. I used not to believe those silly theories in a "you don't know what you're talking about" way, but I start thinking that some of this stuff is true. In fact, it would be a very good excuse for me being such an outcast, I expect.
This means, I fall in love several times a year with the most surprising people, it's obviously impossible and all i got until now was some new stuff to put in my future books. Otherwise I cry like a little girl at the idea of what-will happen-next. Great.

Sorry for this post, I haven't grown up yet. Try to forget it if you can.

[Kailita]

Oh yay, Arebeth, don't be ashamed of any of that - you'll fit right in with the rest of us! :) A lot of us are Outcasts because we're anti-social or more intellectually developed than the kids our age. So don't worry about it. ;):)

I can't understand falling in love several times a year, but maybe that's just me. I don't fall in love very easily at all. I used to develop crushes fairly easily...but these days, even that isn't happening. But I'm okay with that...I'm perfectly fine with being a nun for the next few years - at least until I'm out of highschool - and just loving guys with the love of Christ. :rolleyes::)

[Arathin]

Actually I find myself agreeing with you that being too intelliculally developed growing up does effect your social standing and ability to be in a social group, etc. I had a very well developed intelligence as a young child... I mean reading The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings at age five and six by myself... and that is no exageration... You should see my library... and I do mean MY I have my own starting. I look at those books and in many I see my childhood in one way or another... I see my whole world because those books are my world. I have never had a very active social life and in all truth I dont' think I would want one because I wouldn't know what to do, how to act, etc. I would feel that I was betraying myself and all my private standards.

To me love is like a social gathering... The type of people that grow up in social settings because they are more or less on the "equal" level of intelligence with those of their age are given more opportunity to learn about what is expected, etc. Those of us who were outcast even from such a young age as five or six for an extremely advanced intelligence, perhaps so advanced as to scare their peers, are never given the opportunities to learn and thus enter the world with very little experience.

For example, my best friend mark was not exerated as a child, like I was, and she knows worlds more about this type of stuff than I could ever hope really. I am an infant in this where she is a seasoned veterin really... She knows how to act to get people to call her pretty to get them to ask her on a date etc. I don't know how to do that... thus I don't get called pretty nearly ever and no one ever asks me out... I have to make the first move all the time if I want anything... *sigh*

[Kailita]

Originally posted by Arathin
For example, my best friend mark was not exerated as a child, like I was, and she knows worlds more about this type of stuff than I could ever hope really. I am an infant in this where she is a seasoned veterin really... She knows how to act to get people to call her pretty to get them to ask her on a date etc. I don't know how to do that... thus I don't get called pretty nearly ever and no one ever asks me out... I have to make the first move all the time if I want anything... *sigh*
Honestly, don't worry about it, Arathin. I'm the same way. Love shouldn't be manipulated or treated like a sport...then it's not love. If someone worth it comes around, you won't have to worry about getting them to call you pretty or ask you out. It will be different, trust me.

[Arathin]

cool I hope so

[YayGollum]

Ah, I loved that longer post of the Arathin person's. Makes all kinds of sense. I am achingly glad that I was a nasssty and evil and anti-social type little kid. If I wasn't, I would be just as sickeningly normal as some! Too scary! Yay for being smarter than your age group! Mostly. I also say ---> Don't even worry about it. But also ---> Ick. Avoid the stuff. Be smart. There's no reason to be sad about ---> "Oh, I'm not good at relationships!" type things. Ick. Don't try. Nothing wrong with that. It's safer.

[Arebeth]

I just wanted to thank you both -it's strange but nobody ever spoke to me in that way. People are usually saying "it's your fault/ you don't do anything to understand people/ you just think that you're better than everyone else/ you'd frighten anyone only by the words you use and stuff. At a time I really thought I had a problem. And, when I said I fell in love many times a year, I didn't actually meant that (I'm a French speaker...) in the way you understood it. I used to feel in love when I was bored. It's just that I've been so disappointed that in a way I "regressed" and started having some kind of obscure fascinations for people I had never met. I didn't do that when I was twelve, but now I'm still into it... I had been told a long time ago that I'd start becoming like "everyone else" around 15 or 16. Actually I find it worse. Well, no, in a way I don't care about what they say anymore, but it doesn't make me feel much closer to them.
It's great what you say, Kailita, but sometimes I just feel really alone and I just would like someone to hold me and... there's no one. There has never been. I'm afraid I don't care about love or anything anymore. I'm just fed up of being alone. I know everybody is, and that I "should stop thinking that I'm different", as I've been told since I was three. But still. They just seem to have friends and fun and to be enjoying life while I stay in my room trying to write a silly book I'll probably never finish, listening to Wagner or Evanescence and reading something they've just never heard of. I'd like to be like them. I'm tired of seeing their faces when a teacher asks me something and hearing whispers when I answer. If I'm not different, as they say, why do they feel so? Why do they look at me as some kind of E.T.? I'm sick of hearing people telling that I have what I deserve because I take myself for more than I am. Even if it's true. If I wasn't so conceited they would walk on me. They tried.
I hope it won't remain like this. I'd like to know.

[Annushka]

I know everybody is, and that I "should stop thinking that I'm different", as I've been told since I was three.

Why on earth must you stop thinking that you're different? Not to be lonely? But people are lonely always! "Different" people especially, but that's the cost for something that nobody else has! I'd be really happy to be sure that i'm different. I just suspect that I'm not. But anyway, you have something inside that nobody has never even thought of. And that's worth a lot.

I'm a little older than you're and I guarantee - it gets a bit easier with time. It's like your skin becomes thicker:D

[Rhiannon]

Or your brain and heart get bigger.

[Arathin]

or smaller Rhi...

I have to give a hats off to Arebeth. I couldn't have worded it better and I have tried many times. That is exactly what I am beseiged with really. The same prejugdices, the same difficulties, the same 'different'-ness.

Just because I have nothing against being intelligent, just because I don't flaunt my body and am not concerned with my appearances, just because I don't put a front to attract people, just because I give correct answers without hesitation I am ostasized... (I may be intelligent, but I never said I could spell... ) I am swept into the corners like lint or that little bit of dust you couldn't sweep up with the rest and throw away. The truth is... I'm starting to like these corners I always get thrust into. I'm starting to think I might not be able to leave them because I've been pushed into them for far too long now. Maybe they are simply were I belong, in the dark, hidden corners of all things, people, and places...

[YayGollum]

Oh. I don't remember getting pushed into the corners. I remember running into the corners voluntarily just so I could make my way out of the box. :rolleyes: It's much more fun out here. I see no reason to reminisce about the time you were in the box. Or be jealous of the people still inside. Or anything like that. It's fun to just sit and laugh and watch them do the exact same thing as everyone else. There's more room out here for originality.

[Rhiannon]

Yeah. Who cares about being ostracized by a bunch of sheep? It can get kind of lonely if you're not a natural loner and you don't have any other cool sheep-defying friends to hang out with, but that's what we're around for. If the sheep don't know how cool you are, they aren't worth your time!

That's it, Arathin. Embrace the corner...feel the corner...be the corner....

I'll let you in on a secret. There's a hidden door in the corner. And it leads to the cool people. Down a long windy secret tunnel, down a long twisty spiral stair, through a long tangly labyrinth, there's this big room. It's got all kinds of cool stuff in it, and big couches and chairs and ottomans, and one wall of just books, and one wall of computer stuff, and one wall that's a stage, and it's full of all these really cool people who dress the way they want and act the way they want and do what they want, without worrying about what anybody else things, and some of these really cool people are off by themselves, reading or messing with the computers or just sitting around, and some of them are in groups talking and laughing together, and some are watching Monty Python on a big screen TV. So you walk in to this big, cool room, and some people wave at you, and you realize you can do and dress and act and be whatever you want.

So, ditch the sheep and come down here.

[Eriol]

What a great post, Rhiannon!!

:)

I wrote something here last night but the evil computer swallowed it. I'll try to write it again. It was about the 'other side of the coin' in these relationship hassles that you ladies seem to be running into.

The other side: boys. At the age you are now, my dear friends, boys shun, ignore, or run like hares from personality. They don't want personality. Perhaps there is some cultural influence going on here, but I don't believe it is a major factor.

Boys at that age are run by hormones. And no, I'm not talking about the "sheep", the popular guys, I'm talking about ALL of them -- or enough of them for you to treat this as a general rule.

Males are natural heartbreakers, and the don't pay attention to other people before an average age of 25. Some of them never stop doing it.

Time to address the exceptions. And there are exceptions, of two major kinds. The first kind is composed of those boys who think they are not interested in women (ALL boys are interested in women, except possibly homosexuals). They think women are too complicated, too unpredictable, too much trouble to be worth the effort. They want other toys.

The bad news is that it will not help you to grab one of these, because they revert to type (natural heartbreakers) when they get hold of a woman (and yes, that is what goes through their head -- in so many words).

The other major kind is the rarest kind -- my kind ;). Hehe. Boys who have learned, through experience or thought, that women are people; and not toys. In my own case it was thought; I knew that when I was very young. Most men at my current age know it already, through experience. This the kind of boys you must look for. If he is also a romantic...

:)

The bottomline is that you should not think there is anything wrong with you, because there isn't. It is a matter of age. The boys you know will (hopefully!) grow out of it. Of course, since I don't know you, I can't say that you are all gorgeous women who should have lines of guys at your door wanting to date you. But chances are you are doing nothing wrong by itself, but are simply being yourselves -- and not being noticed by the toy-driven boys. (True) Love is not a matter of merit, anyway; and "relationships" (what is being discussed here) need two to work, and these boys are not looking for a second person.

Beware of loneliness. It can lead you to do stupid things. It is better and more effective to be patient.

I can tell you this: you are all beautiful and lovely women. How do I know it? ALL women are beautiful and lovely. Many of them don't know it -- it is a fact that a loving man makes a woman more beautiful and more lovely. Perhaps you don't realize that in yourselves. No, I'm not making a propaganda campaign against makeup :D. I'm just telling you how it is. Be beautiful, be lovely, and wait until the boys around you grow up enough to look at you and see beauty and loveliness -- and not the sex-gratifying machine most of them are looking for at their current age.

In the meantime, you can visit Rhiannon's big room :D. It will help you to become even more beautiful and lovely when the time for beauty and loveliness comes.

[BranMuffin]

*Joins the others in the big room of cool people and stuff*

Beware of loneliness. It can lead you to do stupid things. It is better and more effective to be patient.

My girlfriend has learned this all too well. And is regretting her impatience, because it caused heartache at the time. But now she is overjoyed and has gotten over the heartache.

The other major kind is the rarest kind -- my kind . Hehe. Boys who have learned, through experience or thought, that women are people; and not toys. In my own case it was thought; I knew that when I was very young. Most men at my current age know it already, through experience. This is the kind of boys you must look for. If he is also a romantic...

That's me, too! I learned through thought as well, Eriol. Though I think that my relationship with my first love(Jesus Christ) has hepled me in my relationships in my life.
I don't know if I am a romantic or not, I guess you'll have to ask my girlfriend...

I agree with your post completely, Eriol.
Girls don't fret over boys who aren't worth your time and effort. Especially at their age. Give them time, and hopefully they will mature to be the caring, loving, protecting, romantic guys you all need.

[Annushka]

They say in Russian (direct translation) - there're no unattractive women, there's too little VODKA! Did you get the idea?

I'm so pessimistic these days about all those things. And I'm afraid to open my mouth cause I'll start to say things I don't really believe.

Why would loneliness lead to stupid behavior?

I erased the 1st part of my post!

[Eriol]

They say in Russian (direct translation) - there're no unattractive women, there's too little VODKA! Did you get the idea?

Hehe, we have a similar saying here -- only the beverage is not vodka. I was not drunk when I wrote that, Annushka...

:D

Why would loneliness lead to stupid behavior?

Beats me. But it does. I don't know why. I just watch. It is very common :(.

I erased my answer to that first part too :).

[Arebeth]

Originally posted by Annushka

Why would loneliness lead to stupid behavior?

Well, sometimes you feel like you'd do anything to be less lonely. All kinds of anything. I understand the point. I don't think I've ever done anything "stupid" (I'm much too perfectionnist and too ambitious, unfortunately, to do anything I could regret later) but maybe I should. It could be less boring. Anyway. I know I won't. I'm just a pretty little know-it-all- "don't do anything wrong"...

[Rhiannon]

What a great post, Rhiannon!!

Thanks, Eriol! :)

At the age you are now, my dear friends, boys shun, ignore, or run like hares from personality.
Don't they ever. Sheesh. This is why I'm only attracted to older men (Colonel Brandon...*sigh*)

That doesn't stop us from wanting that kind of affection, though, even though we know consciously that it's not the time for that sort of thing. I wrote a big long entry about this in my live journal...Here it is (http://www.livejournal.com/users/charismitaine/2003/07/14/). So I won't repeat it all here ;)

[Kailita]

Gah, Rhi. That...that...*nod/sigh* yeah, that pretty much sums it up. For me, at least. I've got nothing to say that wouldn't echo your sentiments, other than to mention that it's a really good thing that there are people like you who can put into words what the rest of us less-articulate people are feeling as well.

It's funny...sometimes I can be perfectly okay, march through highschool and hold my head high and be good and fine with being a nun, thinking that really I'm okay and I'm not missing out on anything. And sometimes...alone in my room in the dark, staring at my vacant expression in the mirror...I wonder how much longer I can hold up.

I don't want these shallow hormone-driven boys...at least not at the stage they're at right now. But I want to appreciated, loved...cherished. My hope is in God - He appreciates, loves, cherishes me constantly, when I'm at my worst, darkest, loneliest. And Bran is right - guys who have Jesus as their center are the ones who will understand and see things in perspective (though they're not perfect ;)).

I want to echo Eriol on being wary of loneliness - don't let it compromise you or lead you to desperation or doing something stupid that you'll regret later. Don't let it consume you. But know that we all feel it, at some time or another...or at least all the girls I've talked to.

Arebeth, Arathin, you can sit by me, and we'll hang out in Rhian's big room. :) Someone pop in Monty Python...

[Arebeth]

Originally posted by Rhiannon
Thanks, Eriol! :)


Don't they ever. Sheesh. This is why I'm only attracted to older men (Colonel Brandon...*sigh*)


Mmmm... Sometimes I wonder how you can be so right???

[Nóm]

This is how I see it. Normally love isn't something I trouble about or think about much at all really. If I fall in love (which I have a couple times) then it becomes an issue and all the sudden it is worth thinking (and troubling!) about. But, eventually I snap out of it and get back to normal, which is that there is no desire (and certainly no need) to ever find a man/love! Admittedly I don't intend to have children, so there goes one reason that many people have to find love. Really, no children no need of romantic love at all.

Maybe different people are different. It might be some people need love. I'd say love is a good thing for sure, but not necessary to life, and in fact I'd prefer my own life being simpler without it. While not a lesbian, I don't generally find men attractive anyhow (as a rule not unless I already have other feelings for them - so there is rarely any romatic/sexual feelings for them), and the company I would rather have from them is friendship.

I see the sense in what YayGollum asked. Why risk it? I say: Don't! But I also say, it is an individual thing and I would't advise others to think the same.

[Dragon]

love is............

lovely.

[Dragon]

this isnt the dragon lady this is her lover steven also known as stizzle yall prolly dont remember me i wasnt very big among the people in here,and how did i know her password? i am a smart one,why didnt i use my own name?because its gone and i dont know where it went
anyways the whole point of this was to agree with my lovely dragon mistress that love is very lovely