Tween of the Fellowship

[Aulë]

FotR: A Long-expected Party
At that time Frodo was still in his tweens, as the hobbits called the irresponsible twenties between childhood and coming of age at thirty-three.

RotK: Minas Tirith
'Which question shall I answer first?' said Pippin. 'My father farms the lands round Whitwell near Tuckborough in the Shire. I am nearly twenty-nine, so I pass you there; though I am but four feet, and not likely to grow any more, save sideways.'

FotR: The Ring Goes South
`You speak gravely,' said Elrond, `but I am in doubt. The Shire, I forebode, is not free now from peril; and these two I had thought to send back there as messengers, to do what they could, according to the fashion of their country, to warn the people of their danger. In any case, I judge that the younger of these two, Peregrin Took, should remain. My heart is against his going.'

Was Elrond right in saying that Pippin (a tween) should have stayed behind?
Would the quest have been more successful if someone like Glorfindel had gone instead?
Did the Fellowship benefit from having a tween within?

Discuss.

[Legolam]

I think a Tween has the capacity to make as great a contribution to a mission such as this as anyone else, if not more. Pippin brought with him his youthful energy, enthusiasm and strength; qualities that others may not have had.

Sorry for the shortness of the post. Not much time, and no books!

[DGoeij]

I don't think it's a good idea to put Pippin up against Glorfindel, let's just look at Pippin coming with the Fellowship or not.

I think I understand Elrond's reasoning in trying to protect the inexperienced Pippin from dangers he couldn't possibly comprehend. He wasn't stupid or anything, but hardly able to see the real danger. In my view that's more of a benefit. How many people succeeded somewhere because they didn't believe something was impossible?
His youthfull attitude saved the Faramir's life, by convincing Beregond not to do the proper thing, but the right thing. Of course, the same youthfull attitude made him drop the stone in the well in Moria and possibly made him look into the Palantir.

And if I consider the benefit (to either the Shire or Pippin himself) of sending him back, there would be hardly any. Peregrin Took, without his experiences of the War of the Ring, wouldn't have made much of a difference when the ruffians appeared in the Shire. In my opinion he would have been one of the Tooks, defending Tookland, uncapable of doing much for the rest of the Shire.

[Aulë]

Yes, but just think:

If Glorfindel had gone along in Pippin's place, he may have ended up saving Boromir's life at Amon Hen.
Therefore Denethor would not have been so grief-striken because of the loss of his favourite son; and may have ended up making more sensible decisions- saving hundreds of Gondorian lives.

Frodo and Sam would still have gone off on their own to Mordor, so the Ring would have still been destroyed.

And Merry, Sam and Frodo would have still been able to rescue the Shire from Sharkey & co. But also, the Shire would have been much more prepared for oncoming evil thanks to Pippin, and the destruction would have been lessened.

[DGoeij]

If Glorfindel had gone along in Pippin's place, he may have ended up saving Boromir's life at Amon Hen.
Therefore Denethor would not have been so grief-striken because of the loss of his favourite son; and may have ended up making more sensible decisions- saving hundreds of Gondorian lives.

Or maybe he wouldn't have saved Boromir. Hard to tell. Adding Glorfindel to the Fellowship in the first place, wether replacing Pippin, Legolas or anybody else, would mean a totally different course of action throughout the story. What if Glorfindel fell to the desire of the Ring himself?



And Merry, Sam and Frodo would have still been able to rescue the Shire from Sharkey & co. But also, the Shire would have been much more prepared for oncoming evil thanks to Pippin, and the destruction would have been lessened.

I don't know, hardly anyone in Rivendell knew of Saruman's affairs in the Shire or his plans for it. After al, it was a Hobbit (Lotho) from inside the Shire who started it all. More likely, Pippin would have been laughed at, for becoming as ***** as mr. Frodo and mr. Bilbo after a yourney east.

[Aulë]

*bump*


We must look at this from when Elrond made the decision to allow Pippin to tag along (unless you think he and Gandalf had some foresight of the deeds that Pippin would partake in).
It seems rather silly to send an inexperienced and immature Hobbit on a mission of that importance. Sure, he brought along 'youthful energy, enthusiasm and strength', but so did Merry. Surely one was enough?
Elrond compared the Nine Walkers to the Nine Riders. I doubt Pippin would had stood for long against a Nazgul (Although I probably would have thought the same about Merry, and he kinda proved me wrong ;) ).

And Elrond would have known about the Tooks in the Shire (probably from Bilbo), so he would have known how they were the 'warriors' of the Shire, and it would pay to send Pippin off to warn his family to be prepared for any signs of evil.

[DGoeij]

Exactly the one I meant, good call.:D


Well, as the largest and most well-organised family or clan in the Shire, the Tooks took (I'm not doing any bird here) most things into their own hands and by their own rules anyway. And they did quite well unalarmed to say the least. In this case it would have been more usefull to sent both Merry and Pippin back, to ensure both the awareness of Took- and Buckland. Although I doubt if the other Hobbits would have bothered very much with 'wild stories from the east'.

And, I think Elrond saw some use in adding a Joker to the pack. Hobbits were hardly known by the Enemy and their presence was bound to cause some confusion. And the more one confuses Sauron, the better, right?