Venturers: Melkor's Plans

[Nóm]

Melkor could have destroyed the race of elves early at Cuivienen, but instead he only took a few and caused them to fear Orome.

Melkor did not try to have the Quendi worship him yet, but only wanted them to fear the Valar. Looks like the beginning of turning the elves against the Valar, but if this was his intention he was very subtle and had only began.Just what was Melkor planning with the elves? To let them increase in the world and then go in for the domination, and bring them up against the Valar? Why didn't Melkor go among the elves and feign friendship? Why wait for the numbers to increase? But we can be sure Melkor was scheming as usual, so what was he planning?

Men, he used as a tool of evil, he ensured that a race destined to thrive in the world would be doing his work all the while, but if he was so nihilstic at this point as Tolkien says in Myth's Transformed, why didnt he just kill these men while he could? Why should a nihilist be planting seeds of evil when he could have destroyed then and there? Did he want to bring them all up against the Valar and maybe eventually Iluvatar? Was he getting pleasure out of displeasing Iluvatar with having won over his children to evil?

[YayGollum]

Hm. Well, it seems to me to be that getting people on your side is smarter than just killing them. If they're on your side, you have more people to use. Looks like he was doing that with the elves and the humans. Sure, we know that it would have been smarter in the long run to just wipe everyone out, but oh well. Mel had fun with being sneaky. He liked getting to see people fight amongst themselves, too. A good reason to only grab some of the first types that show up.

[Celebthôl]

It could be that he knew to well what Ilúvatar would do if he killed all the children off. There would be no point in Arda if there were no children on it, what good is a play-pen without children inside?
If there were no children left Arda would be unmade and restarted. . . without Melkor and Melkor knew this.
So he did the worst that that he could without putting Ilúvatar into a possition where Melkor would not come out of....thats my take on it anyways....

[Nóm]

True Yay, especially with the elves. But at the time of men Melkor had changed and become even more hatefull and pure destructive. At this point was he just having fun with them or was there some bigger plan?

Really good point Celebthol. They may very well be why he did not destroy all of the elves at Cuivienen. Do you think he would have eventually tried to have them worship him, like he did with men?

But I don't think this could be the reason he did not destroy men, because had he done so the elves would have still been in the world all over the place. I think Morgoth's attack on men was more an attack on Iluvatar. Tolkien may not say so, but what else could it have been?

Maybe Melkor wanted to use the elves against the Valar but men against Iluvatar, and the best way to use men against Eru was to have them worship him instead? But it still seems weird to me that he didn't try to be some leader with the elves in the earliest days, especially when he wanted to be King of Arda, rather than just destroy everyone.

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Nóm
Really good point Celebthol. They may very well be why he did not destroy all of the elves at Cuivienen. Do you think he would have eventually tried to have them worship him, like he did with men?

But I don't think this could be the reason he did not destroy men, because had he done so the elves would have still been in the world all over the place. I think Morgoth's attack on men was more an attack on Iluvatar. Tolkien may not say so, but what else could it have been?

Maybe Melkor wanted to use the elves against the Valar but men against Iluvatar, and the best way to use men against Eru was to have them worship him instead? But it still seems weird to me that he didn't try to be some leader with the elves in the earliest days, especially when he wanted to be King of Arda, rather than just destroy everyone.

I do believe he would try to get them to worship him, he already started that by getting the Elves to be afraid of Oromë, but when the Elves actually saw Oromë and spoke to him, all of Melkors plans were ruined.....

Well Melkor had by this time consecutivly lost the Elves to the Valar....all that was left to him to rule in his "Kingdom" were Men.
There would be no use in destroying your subjects and end up having no one to worship you.....
It could very well have been an attack on Ilúvatar, for he could 100% NOT go to open war in arms with Ilúvatar, it would be like a 3 year old trying to take on Hulk Hogan....
So yes the only way i can see any sort of war between the 2 would be through who was worshipped...

To be a leader you can't just run into a group of new comers and start bossing them about, you have to work on their good side, trap them in a false sense of security then take them over. If he could get the Elves to fear the Valar then his task would be almost complete. Then he could become the leader and the worshipped...he just didnt bank on Oromë finding them as soon as he did....

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut from the EoA...

They removed to Valinor, and fearing for the coming Elves, made war on Melkor and imprisoned him for three ages. By the time he was released, the Elves had come to Valinor;....

So he never got the chance to apparently

[Nóm]

According to the Annals of Aman, where Tolkien gave dates, the elves had been awake for about 335 or our years before Orome found them.

Melkor knew Orome hunted in Middle-earth and the elves believe that he had sent lies among them for the purpose of having the elves shun Orome when they met him. So even though we do not know how long the elves had been awake before Melkor was aware of them, he do know he had time to cause them to fear some hunter and we know Melkor knew Orome should meet the elves one day. Melkor would have known he must act quickly, and I think this seems like enough time for him to have gone among the elves as a mighty friend to them, and he could easily enough present himself as someone who is protecting them and teaching them the sort of things elves like to learn, especially those who would become the Noldor.

[YayGollum]

Maybe I shouldn't have tossed the idea of fun in there? oh well. No, I would think that he was having fun while being achingly hateful and evil and sneaky. It is possible. I say that there was always a bigger plan. Mel was smart. He was very cool. Chaos was fun, too. Sure, killing off everyone or making everyone worship you would have been good for him, but chaos was also pretty good. Mel spent all kinds of time with making Orcs and whatever else. His house was pretty far from whereever elves and humans showed up. His little minions aren't him.