Round 7, Guild of Outcasts vs. Guild of Elves and Dwarves

[baragund]

Hi Everybody...

I will be serving as your friendly neighborhood debate host for this round. Now before Nom and Yay run screaming from their computer monitors, I promise the debate question will be less, shall we say, philosophical in nature than the last one. Still, it should be fun. It's kind of geo-political in nature.

Maedhros has my proposed topic so go ahead and post your teams. We should get started shortly

[Nóm]

Now before Nom and Yay run screaming from their computer monitors, I promise the debate question will be less, shall we say, philosophical in nature than the last one.

No need to worry, as will I not be debating in this round! Not only do I scream and run from philosophy (I've no idea why you think I would!), but also politics. ha!

Maybe if it is okay with GoE/D this debate can be 2 vs 2. YayGollum and Sarah for GoO.

[YayGollum]

Argh! Running and screaming? I can take any topic you people feel like tossing at me! I never complained about the last topic. I even said that it was fun. Hmph. *tosses nose in the air and waits for opponents* :rolleyes:

[baragund]

LOL, I couldn't resist a little kidding there. Hmmm, maybe Maedhros will let me put up a LOTR debate question about something along the lines of who was really the hero or some such thing:D

[Nóm]

Yeah or maybe they can debate which hobbit is their personal favorite! Or, if Melkor uses heat or cold! :D

Bad baragund! :( Yay and I are not daunted by 'philosophy' or any other thing in these debates.

[YayGollum]

Nah. If the debate was about who the hero was (and Gollum was what I got to debate for, of course), I would win too easily. I write long and achingly sensible rants about the subject in my spare time. It would be very sad for the other team. I wouldn't want to be that evil to them. No, it's better to come up with something that I could care less about. Have fun.

[Bethelarien]

The Guild of Elves/Dwarves team will consist of the following:

~Bethelarien (the fearless)
~Nevavarein (the insanely beautiful)
~Omnipotent_Elf (the gutsy wonder)
~The_Swordmaster (the cute little dwarf)

Let's get this party started!

[baragund]

Here we go!!!

Did the Dunlendings get a raw deal from Gondor and the Rohirrim or were they treated fairly?

GoO will be represented by YayGollum and Sarah. They are the home team so they get the first post.

Fearless Beth, Don't forget to judge Round 6 for me.:)

[YayGollum]

I say that they were given what has been called a raw deal. Why not? Yay for defending the Little Guy! What raw deal were they given? I forget. just them getting beaten at that little battle at that Helm's Deep place? Oh, okay. Oh! So sad! Poor guys! Messed up in the brains by the evil Saruman! Why would they deserve anything that happened to them if the evil Saruman with his evil voice messed with their brainses? Feel sorry for the guys! They felt bad about doing evil things afterwards. Forgive them. *bawls*

Oh. Whoops. Also, baragund person, do you have the right number of judges from the right number of places that you're supposed to be getting them from? I hope so. just wondering. Maybe you're still in the process. :rolleyes: *hides*

[baragund]

The Outcasts fired the first salvo so the clock has officially started. GoO made their first post at around 9:30 last night but I like to round things off to keep things simple. Let's close the debate at 12:00 midnight EST, Sunday September 21.

And Yay... (puts hands on hips and looks sternly at the hiding creature), how can you possibly question my handling of judges??;) After all, Round 6 is, um, uh, still not finished?

*also hides*

[YayGollum]

just because some other judging is still going on doesn't mean that you can't be looking for more judges. oh well. Not a huge deal. Plenty of time. I was just wondering. *twiddles thumbs*

[baragund]

Better get cracking, Elves and Dwarves! More than half of the time for the debate has passed and no opening post yet?? You're not going to let Yay get away with that one sorry post of his, are you?:p

[Bethelarien]

The Return of the King, Appendix A, II: The House of Eorl
Cirion, therefore in reward for his [Eorl's] aid, gave Calenardhon between Anduin and Isen to Eorl and his people;...
The Riddermark, or Rohan, was given to Eorl and his people, of which the Dunlendings were not. The Dunlendings did not have leave to live in Rohan, nor is it recorded that they asked. Therefore, they were merely bandits, driven from a land they had unrightly encroached on. Would we not do the same?

During the reign of Helm (again, according to the Appendices), the Dunlendings attacked and overran Rohan, but were driven out again by Frealaf, Helm's nephew. Once again, the Dunlendings tried to unjustly take what was not theirs, and failed. They attacked again during the War of the Ring, causing great destruction.

A raw deal? Certainly not. They got what they deserved.

[omnipotent_elf]

well, here comes the end to the debate......

They felt bad about doing evil things afterwards

it doesnt excuse what they did.What they did was attempt to take what was not theirs, just like a common thief does.

Cirion, therefore in reward for his [Eorl's] aid, gave Calenardhon between Anduin and Isen to Eorl and his people;...

The land was a prize. Was it the Dunlendings, i think not.

Yay for defending the Little Guy

I struggle to find a little guy who is the aggressor, as the Dunlendings obviusly are.

Indeed, the Dunlendings attempted to take something that was not indeed theres, and paid the price

Thus, they were not given a raw deal.

[YayGollum]

Uh, huh. It's too bad that we didn't really get into this subject. But then, I guess not too many had very much information on it. I found some. Too late for much debate, but maybe we can keep going elsewhere since I got interested in it.

What was the raw deal that they got? That was never really explained. oh well. I guess it was just getting killed whenever they took a step into the Rohan type area. I didn't have that Return Of The King book, so I looked around on this internet thing. I found out that these guys weren't just bandits. They came from that Haleth lady from The Sil., who one of my Outcasts is a huge fan of, but oh well. They also have bits of Bree and Ranging type humans in them. They helped out the Stoor type of hobbitses and some Dwarves in the past.

Oh, but what does that have to do with the evility that we're talking about here? I'm being a character witness. oh well. After reading about them, they remind me of the Beornings. Not especially civilized or organized or anything, but achingly proud of themselves and scary when they want to be.

When the guy that you people mentioned gave that land to the Rohan types, some Dunlending types were still living there. They got forced out. Very sad. They had a good reason to try getting the stuff back, I'd say. One Dunlending type tried to get his son married to some Rohan type king's daughter to get some land back. Looks like the Rohan dude didn't like that and killed the Dunlending dude. That dude's son didn't appreciate it. How do you think that helped their relationship? Thanks a lot, Rohan types!

What else? When the evil Saruman got that Isengard place, he was ready to help them out, but after that very boring passage of The Two Towers about the battle of Helm's Deep, the Dunlending types found out that they had been lied to and promised not to mess with the Rohan types anymore.

Yay for a nice and happy ending, yes? Yay for the nice and peaceful Dunlending types? Even though they had all kinds of good reasons and excuses for doing things that the more popular Rohan types didn't understand. Why say that they deserved it? It looks like the Rohan types and the evil Saruman dude were more responsible for any evility that happened.

[baragund]

Time's up!!

I'll get in touch with the judges so they can do their thing. It shouldn't take long this time:rolleyes: