A Purist's Review: Yes I've finally seen it! All welcome!

[Thorin]

Okay, first off let me say that it was an okay movie. Some of the things that I was worried about did not bother me so much. Others that I didn't have an issue with truly peeved me. Here goes!

Characters in General: Though it is difficult to establish deep character development to the extent that Tolkien did, I felt PJ really fell flat in Aragorn. Half the nonsense he spent at Orthanc (I'll get to that in a minute!) Could have been better used at Bree to develop Aragorn better. For one of the most important characters, he was most poorly developed. Gandalf didn't bother me as much as I thought. Overall, Ian did a good job with what was given to him. Ian Holm did a good job of Bilbo. Elrond and Galadriel bit the big one and I'll get to that in a second. Legolas, Boromir and Gimli were good. The hobbits were made out to be more like baggage then any useful characters. Make no mistake, I was nearly dying trying to live through the Arwen at the Ford scenes. That was too much to take. "Hang on Frodo!" "I've never seen a Ranger caught unaware." Sorry FADs or NLDs, that was just too bad. And Saruman....oh my, we'll get to that in a minute.

Moria: Moria satisfied me quite well (except for the cheesy cave troll and extended battle with him). The Balrog looked good, but was a bit too large. Tolkien said that the Balrogs stood about 14 feet high.

Rivendell: Rivendell as a place looked good. Elrond's character and the actor who played him were downright disappointing. Elrond was so flat and gloomy and the council of Elrond was a HUGE bomb. Once again, the time wasted at Orthanc (I'm getting to that) could have been better spent there.

Lorien: Though the gloomy-ness of Lorien bothered me, I was most perturbed by the evil/slow-mo, poor portrayal of Cate Blanchett. Her character was so poorly done, I don't even know why PJ stuck her in there. Almost as sad as Aragorn.

Emyn Muil/Amon Hen: Despite the "Frodo meets Aragorn on the hill and Aragorn lets him go" scene which was totally against the spirit of Frodo's decision, I was quite pleasantly suprised with it all. Boromir was great and lived up to how I imagined it all to be. (I ignored the Lurtz thing and just imagined him as some wayward orc)

Saruman and Orthanc: Okay, where do I begin. Let's just say that out of all the changes (Yes, even Arwen). Saruman was the HUGEST travesty of his character! All the time wasted on Orthanc and Saruman with pathetic orc scenes, the cheesy wizard fight and idiot telepathic dialogue between Gandalf and Saruman could have been put to better use in other areas of the movie. Saruman bringing Caradhras down on the Fellowship?? Saruman in league with Sauron?? The dark Lord's crony?? His character was the worst portrayed in the movie and I am ashamed of Christopher Lee as a Tolkien fan to allow himself to act it (though I'm sure he didn't have much say). Pathetic, pathetic!

My wife just finished reading FotR today for the first time (I told her she couldn't see the movie until she did. And she was bitterly disappointed with the movie because of the liberties and unnecessary changes and lack of character development. Here is someone who liked the story and has not internalized it as much as us purists and despised the changes in the show. Being an English major I guess she recognizes the sacredness of the written word! So just remember that movie lovers! Heh, heh.

Overall Diagnosis: Moria, Emyn Muil, Shire and Bilbo's party : GOOD
Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, Bree, Orthanc and Saruman : BAD
Weathertop, Trip from Shire to Bree, Character Development: POOR

[Foe-Hammer]

(Rude remark removed by foe-hammer)

Where to start.....

Characters in General: Though it is difficult to establish deep character development to the extent that Tolkien did, I felt PJ really fell flat in Aragorn. Half the nonsense he spent at Orthanc (I'll get to that in a minute!) Could have been better used at Bree to develop Aragorn better. For one of the most important characters, he was most poorly developed.

There's plenty of time for Aragorn to develope over the next two movies.

Overall, Ian did a good job with what was given to him. Ian Holm did a good job of Bilbo.

Agreed

Legolas, Boromir and Gimli were good.

Agreed

The hobbits were made out to be more like baggage then any useful characters.

Baggage that laughs, crys, causes the wisest characters to change their plans, etc.?

Make no mistake, I was nearly dying trying to live through the Arwen at the Ford scenes. That was too much to take. "Hang on Frodo!"

I'm sure that every elf in Rivendale was hopeing the little weenie would become a wraith?

"I've never seen a Ranger caught unaware."

If anyone could sneak up on a Ranger, it'd be an elf.

The Balrog looked good, but was a bit too large. Tolkien said that the Balrogs stood about 14 feet high.

Did you get out your measuring stick? Can you say nit-picking?

Rivendell: Rivendell as a place looked good.

Agreed

Elrond's character and the actor who played him were downright disappointing. Elrond was so flat and gloomy and the council of Elrond was a HUGE bomb.

I always thought the guy from matrix reminded me of an elf.

Once again, the time wasted at Orthanc (I'm getting to that) could have been better spent there.

patiently waiting....

Lorien: Though the gloomy-ness of Lorien bothered me, I was most perturbed by the evil/slow-mo, poor portrayal of Cate Blanchett. Her character was so poorly done, I don't even know why PJ stuck her in there. Almost as sad as Aragorn.

She always reminded me of an elf too.

Emyn Muil/Amon Hen: Despite the "Frodo meets Aragorn on the hill and Aragorn lets him go" scene which was totally against the spirit of Frodo's decision,

Try re-reading that part of The Breaking of the Fellowship. You missed it.

I was quite pleasantly suprised with it all. Boromir was great and lived up to how I imagined it all to be.

I wasn't suprised in the least.

(I ignored the Lurtz thing and just imagined him as some wayward orc)

You should have done the same thing with 90% of your complaints.

Saruman and Orthanc: Okay, where do I begin. Let's just say that out of all the changes (Yes, even Arwen). Saruman was the HUGEST travesty of his character! All the time wasted on Orthanc and Saruman with pathetic orc scenes, the cheesy wizard fight and idiot telepathic dialogue between Gandalf and Saruman could have been put to better use in other areas of the movie.

Oh, I thought you were going to enlighten us with the specifics.

Saruman bringing Caradhras down on the Fellowship??

They knew that Sauron had great powers and many allies. Gandalf said that Sauron's arm had grown long. Meaning Saruman was an extension.
Next.

Saruman in league with Sauron?? The dark Lord's crony?? His character was the worst portrayed in the movie and I am ashamed of Christopher Lee as a Tolkien fan to allow himself to act it (though I'm sure he didn't have much say). Pathetic, pathetic!

Show me where is says that only Saruman could resist the power of Sauron. The book say exactly the opposite. Tolkien expected that the reader would know that Saruman was under Sauron's control to an extent. He still has the desire to get the ring. We know that if Saruman uses the ring that Sauron will eventually take it from him. Sauron HOPES that Saruman gets the ring, then he'll know where it's at.

Overall Diagnosis: Moria, Emyn Muil, Shire and Bilbo's party : GOOD
Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, Bree, Orthanc and Saruman : BAD
Weathertop, Trip from Shire to Bree, Character Development: POOR

Overall diagnosis: I'm not surprised in the least.

[Rhumatad]

i just want to put in a few things.
i agree that galadriel was not well done.
i also agree that emyn muil, although changed, was a great scene in the movie. maybe i only liked it so much because i am a battle-loving martial arts enthusiast but i believe we can look forward to mind blowing battle scenes in the next two films.

[Thorin]

Foe, I don't know which book you're reading, but in my Tolkien FoTR, it says that Frodo went straight to the river from Amon Hen without telling anyone because of the rings effects on those around it. He knew that Aragorn and the others would have followed him, and had every intention if Frodo decided to go to Mordor instead of Minas Tirith first...Oh, wait, that wasn't in the movie so you may not be aware of that..Sorry, read it, it's there. Don't sit there and tell me what Tolkien says when you don't seem to have any clue what it says.

You're ignorant and rude response towards my wife is duly ignored. Please put me on your ignore list because I would rather have some reasonable, respectful and intelligent responses to my posts, like Rhumatad's. You are a waste of my time.

[Foe-Hammer]

Well, if we had the same copy I could give you the page #. We were talking about Aragorn, not Frodo.

Start from the paragraph right after he takes off the ring when he's on Amon Hen. It starts with "Frodo rose to his feet...."
Start there and read through to where Boroimr reappears. You will see that Aragorn would go with Frodo, but doubt's they could force themselve's on him. It was still Frodo's choice, as it has always been. This is another reason why I don't agree that he was portrayed as a piece of luggage.

I apoligize for the remark about your wife. I will remove it immediatly.

[Jaco]

While it was a generally decent film, it was a poor representation of the book. Although i am suprised that no-one has mentioned Aragorn's final line

"Lets hunt some orc"

Still makes me cringe

[Ancalagon]

I have to say, I thought that a great deal of Galadriels (Kate Blanchett) screen-time has been removed. This obviously means most of her overall presence has suffered as a result. The reason I say this is because I watched 'Elizabeth' this evening and realised what an absolutely tremendous actress she is, because of this, I feel that we have lost possibly one of the more credible performances to the cutting-room floor.

[Rhumatad]

something for the DVD perhaps?
lets hope so

[Greymantle]

Originally posted by Jaco
While it was a generally decent film, it was a poor representation of the book. Although i am suprised that no-one has mentioned Aragorn's final line

"Lets hunt some orc"

Still makes me cringe

Ick, why'd you have to remind me of that!? :rolleyes: That made me gag.

" 'Yes,' said Aragorn, 'we shall all need the endurance of Dwarves. But come! With hope or without hope we will follow the trail of our enemies. And woe to them, if we prove the swifter! We will make such a chase as shall be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!' " -TT, 22

Now, which do you prefer...

[Jaco]

Sorry.. It seemed the line that was the least Tolkien and most 'Hollywood' in the film. Oh.. and although people have said that loads of lines had been kept from the book they were placed out of context and in totally the wrong scenes

[Foe-Hammer]

But that doesn't work in a movie. It would come off as redundant, preachy, and contrived.

"Lets hunt some orc" works, if you allow for the difference in the mediums. (it will never be an "I'll be back" line)

[Jaco]

It does not work i feel. It is out of character. Lile the T-800 saying 'I shall return shortly'

The people of Middle Earth did not speak like that.

Can you imagine Russel Crowe in Gladiator saying things in a cheesy american way. No i imagine. Yet the language in that film worked perfectly. I feel the director and screeplay writers could at least respected the characters in middle spoke and not put that line to appeal to the lowest common de-nominator

[Foe-Hammer]

I see what you mean. It didn't sound cheesy to me, but I am an american, so what do you expect? :)

[Jaco]

Sorry for any offence. By american i meant the epitome of american films that is hollywood. Generalising and stereotyping are generally bad things.

Most of the greatest Jazz musicians have been/are american so i don't think all americans are cheesy, but some are. same for every country wouldn't you say....?


By the way i am not patriotic in anyway..

[Foe-Hammer]

I think you're right. A more middle earth dialect and words would have done better.

" Legolas! Gimli! Let us hunt these orc and exact a dear price upon thier heads!"

How's that?

[Jaco]

I would not be so hasty as to devise a new line so soon. I don't know what would have been better. Something paraphrased from the original line would have been better... but a valiant effort nonetheless;)

[aragil]

Originally posted by Thorin

Lorien: Though the gloomy-ness of Lorien bothered me, I was most perturbed by the evil/slow-mo, poor portrayal of Cate Blanchett. Her character was so poorly done, I don't even know why PJ stuck her in there. Almost as sad as Aragorn.


I think the portrayal of the elves (except for Legolas) is one of the more interesting things in the movie. After reading the books I immediately fell in love with them, considering them to be the most noble people I'd ever heard of. In fact, I remember telling my school matest that Santa had DWARVES with him up north, that elves were in fact tall and beautiful and not so much given to toy-making. But humans in the books (esp. Eomer and Boromir) were very mistrustful of them, at least before meeting them. I think the portrayal of Galadriel (and Elrond) were portrayed to reflect this. They are a little cold, a little aloof, a little other-worldly, and a little scary. They act a little differently than the same characters in the book, but they also give an indication as to why mortals might be fearful fo them.

[Bucky]

>>>I'd bet a million dollars that tolkien would be more ashamed of you than
the interpretation of his book.

I thought Tolkien was just concerned about 'respect for living authors'.......

On 'Let's hunt some orc', reminds me of saying "The batter has 100 RBI".

I know one person, who hasn't seen the film, who said "If I see one more commercial with another anorexic elf-maiden, I'll puke".
I kinda thought Kim Bassinger would've made a good Galadriel.
Or Pamala Anderson.
Just kidding on Pam.
On 2nd thought.......

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm just asking, not commemting: Where does Tolkien say that Balrogs are about 14 feet tall?
I've read TLOTR, Silmarillion & Unfinished Tales numerous times, & I don't ever recall that.

[Eonwe]

I just remember seeing the part after they leave Moria and Sam is slow motion crying...

I started laughing out loud because that is what I felt like doing about the movie.

Too much visual (like Sam slowly drowning with one hand up) and not enough dialog which could have easily been taken from the book. How about when they left Balin's tomb and Gandalf tried to hold the door shut with a spell and the balrog touched the door handle on the other side... boom

I liked Saruman but way too much time on him, I hated the Council of Elrond what a joke, I hated when they left Moria and Aragorn didn't say "if you pass the doors of Moria beware!" because he knew about the balrog ahead of time

I thought too little time on Lorien, too much time with Frodo and Sam and the boats, Borimor was great, Bree sucked, etc... sorry but I was really disappointed. I will see the other two movies.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Bucky
[BPlease excuse my ignorance, I'm just asking, not commemting: Where does Tolkien say that Balrogs are about 14 feet tall?
I've read TLOTR, Silmarillion & Unfinished Tales numerous times, & I don't ever recall that. [/B]

It is in one of Christopher Tolkien's commentaries in the History of Middle Earth series (I think it is either "War of the Jewels, VOL XI" or "Book of Lost Tales 2 - VOL II" Probably the latter. When Tolkien talked about the elves fighting the Balrogs, it says that they were about twice their height. Christopher Tolkien places this at between 12-14 feet high considering that the average height of the elves were between 6-7 feet tall.

[Thorin]

Another thing that bothered me (well there were more under the same principle), was the waste of screen time spent with Boromir looking at the shards of Narsil. Here's a scene that does not belong in the movie and basically takes up more time that could have been used to further develop the characters, or keep a scene or two in that was actually true to the book. Narsil wasn't even reforged, nor was it even emphasised in the movie.

Why put that in? Boromir's impression of Aragorn as heir of Isildur and his change from animosity to respect was made quite evident throughout the movie without that scene. It bothers me that people justify the changes PJ made by saying "Well, he probably cut that part because it doesn't add anything to the story, and it's too confusing and long" etc etc. Yet PJ throws his own creation into it that really does less for the story and time factor than if PJ had kept more of Tolkien in it.

There were so many untrue-Tolkien time wasting scenes (like most of Orthanc and Saruman the way they were portrayed) that could have been used more wisely to further develop the characters and scenes that PJ needed to fine tune his movie. Keeping the movie the way Tolkien wrote it and saying, "There's not enough time! I have to cut some things" is one thing. Saying that and then adding in a bunch of made up stuff that detracts more than adds to the story is unexcusable.

[markrob]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thorin
[B]Okay, first off let me say that it was an okay movie. Some of the things that I was worried about did not bother me so much. Others that I didn't have an issue with truly peeved me. Here goes!

Ah, satisfaction, that is all I wanted to hear from a purist. That is the message us FADG's are trying to convey. Now I feel we have some common ground to work on. Yes the movie had mistakes, big ones at times, but it was a good if not great MOVIE. Isnt it great to see the images youve always had in your mind brought to life. It is better than nothing and the books are always there to read if the need arises. Praise Thorin, great seer of the light!
:D

[Thorin]

Easy now, markrob, though I appreciate the comment. I still feel that PJ sold out and could and should have made a better movie then he did. I can find more fault with the movie (and not just nit-picking detail differences) that destroyed the spirit of Tolkien, more than bolstered it.

Overall I felt that it was okay from a movie standpoint (though if I had not been a Tolkien fan, a lot would have confused me). But from a Tolkien standpoint, I am still upset with the liberties and character assassinations that PJ made that he didn't have to. And much of the changes from the book took away from the movie's impact more than if PJ had let them stand as Tolkien intended.

Nonetheless, you will see from my other posts that, though critical and still a die-hard purist miffed at PJ, I am trying to find and comment on some of the good qualities that the film has. For example, despite Lurtz, and Frodo talking to Aragorn, I thought the Amon Hen/Emyn Muil scenes (especially with Boromir) were quite good. I am not miffed at Gandalf's character like I was before I saw the movie (though I thought that he was a little weak in character and strength in his confrontation with Saruman), and Moria, despite the changes, was great.

As a matter of fact, until Gandalf rode to Orthanc, I really liked everything PJ had done until then. From that point until after they left Rivendell is where I found the movie fell the lowest in Tolkien standards and made me cringe the most out of everything. After that, I was somewhat impressed.

Still a NPW till the end! :)

[Elendil]

Saruman was being controlled by Sauron. He had the Palantir and looked into it. Sauron turned him to evil. However, he never openly said to Gandalf that he should follow Sauron as well. Saruman actually felt that he was aquiring the Ring for himself. Gandalf was also afraid of looking into the palantir. It was Aragorn, its rightful owner, that finally contended with Sauron in the palantir and wrenched its use to his own needs. He also forced Sauron's hand by showing that the heir to Elendil lived, and caused Sauron to strike too early.

I actually like some of the views and underground scenes of Orthanc. It showed well how beautiful it was and how Saruman raped it to build his engines of war. This sets up the anger of the Ents that would have been somewhat boring if it was simply dialog from Treebeard. (Heck, Ents are pretty boring to us "hasty" folk anyway. Haha.)

The summary of there being too much action and not enough dialog is good I think. Geez, there was more dialog and character development in Raiders of the Lost Ark than there was in this movie. I didn't expect to see a movie like "Diner", but you've got to develop character like Aragorn and Legolas more.

I think most of us agree with the principle:
Too much time on PJ **** means not enough time developing characters and important dialog.

Is it just me, or were all the lines that people reacted to the best (even in the theater) straight out of the book? I saw a review that was thankful that the elvin poetry was gone! I would give anything to hear "Namarie" or "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" instead of that subtitled PJ-elvin ****.

[markrob]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thorin
[B]Easy now, markrob, though I appreciate the comment. I still feel that PJ sold out and could and should have made a better movie then he did. I can find more fault with the movie (and not just nit-picking detail differences) that destroyed the spirit of Tolkien, more than bolstered it.

Yes, Yes but you are finally starting to realize that dispite the flaws, many I might add, you can separate the difference between the two, movie and book, and appreciate both of them.

[Perseus]

I would agree with Thorin here that the scene with Boromir and the shards of Narsil was a scene that could have been cut and the those few minutes put to better use. I would also agree with Elendil that the early scenes of Othanc did an excellent job of showing the rape of the trees and the subsequent anger of the Ents. Whether Balrogs are 14 ft tall or 20 seems to be of little importance, considering PJ's vision of the demon did an excellent job of portraying him as a truly fearsome and formidable foe.
As far as the "Lets hunt some Orc " line, well, while Tolkeins line has a poetic strength to it, in a time of haste PJ's line conveys a sense of urgency to the task at hand without seeming that out of place.

[Foe-Hammer]

I think you better hold on tight, cause the next two years are gonna be rough.

I think the changes that bother you are just the groundwork for more adaptations. Someone had mentioned that Arwen may take over the role of Eowyn and that means Faramir's role is weakened or gone. I also don't see how the last few chapters are going to play out in a movie. The climatic scene will be at Mt doom, not the final dealings with saruman. The shire and the grey havens will be short and sweet and I'm dang sure "Well, I'm back" will not end the movie. Although they have brought Rosie into the movie already, so maybe it will make it in.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Foe-Hammer
I think you better hold on tight, cause the next two years are gonna be rough.

I think the changes that bother you are just the groundwork for more adaptations. Someone had mentioned that Arwen may take over the role of Eowyn and that means Faramir's role is weakened or gone. I also don't see how the last few chapters are going to play out in a movie. The climatic scene will be at Mt doom, not the final dealings with saruman. The shire and the grey havens will be short and sweet and I'm dang sure "Well, I'm back" will not end the movie. Although they have brought Rosie into the movie already, so maybe it will make it in.

Despite confirmations I've heard to the contrary of what you are suggesting, I don't think PJ is that crazy. He, himself said he wouldn't make such huge changes like that. As far as I know, Eowyn and Faramir are true characters, so logically they would be doing what they intended. By replacing Eowyn's actions with Arwen doing them and still having Eowyn in the movie makes her more useless then Arwen being in the movie before PJ gave her an extended role. I can understand not having the Scouring of the Shire from a movie climax point of view. If PJ could remain true blue (which is much better for a movie IMO) with what is left, I could live with cuts like Bombadil and Scourging of the Shire. It's when nearly every scene is modified that I have to cry out WHY???

[Foe-Hammer]

Is a fine line to walk, and all the reviews I am seeing say that the movie was entertaining. And CT himself said the book was un-suitable for the medium of film.
Having those two facts, I think the movie does the book justice. And the people whose vision of ME this fits, it's a great movie that brings the book alive. Those that it doesn't have to be content with the book alone.

ps I hope you're right about arwen

[aragil]

My disclaimer here is that this is just stuff I saw floating around the site, so its validity can certainly be questioned. What I've heard is that Arwen might be replacing Halbarad the Dunadan or her brothers in the Return of the King. Instead of sending the standard down with them, she brings it herself as well as (possibly) Anduril at last. I guess this would make sense if you're expanding Arwen's role. I don't understand why Anduril has been left out, I guess maybe PJ thinks a sword is sword is a sword. Then again, maybe it will replace the sceptre of Annuminas, and Elrond will bring it down for Aragorn's marriage?

[markrob]

NPW of FAD, agree or disagree, I think it is safe to say we are all huge JRRT fans. With the amount of time spent on this site, warrented or not, I for one think its awesome and stimulating. I also think we are all a little nuts and wacked out but it sure is a good escape from the real world. I believe I will start reading the series again and I just finished with them again in mid-summer. Currently reading Terry Goodkind's series, Highly recommend it, start with Wizard First Rule. A lot of Tolkiens influence. Not as much name calling going on lately but I still want to spank Greymantle. Merry "Tolkien" Christmas to all, yes, even you Grey.
:D :cool: :) ;) :p

[Wesley_Skiddles]

Your "review" was passionate, crisp, salty, and informative...to a point.

The part that is missing?

No where in your review did you discuss the RING. I have come here to find out about the ring. I hope you can help.

[Thorin]

The ring, as yes the ring. What are we going to do about the ring?

I believe that PJ didn't really show the power of the ring over the individual The only place that PJ truly showed the power of the ring (and quite well I might add) was the scene with Bilbo and Gandalf. By having Frodo just plop the ring out for everyone to see and to have Boromir fondle it on Caradhras then willingly give it back with no problems (a stupid created scene in my opinion) contradicted the power of the ring over the people around it. Some may say that it was too early for Frodo and Boromir to be that negatively affected by the ring, but Tolkine says that at the council, Frodo was quite reluctant to show the ring and then only kept it in his hand.

[Eonwe]

Speaking of the ring:

I thought it was portrayed pretty well as far as being scary and evil. How about Bilbo turning into Gollum when he asked to see the ring?

What happened to the eye of Sauron? Looks more like a fiery female anatomy symbol to me. I know it was supposed to look like a cats eye, but just show a wierd eye (how about a Marty Feldman closeup instead?)

But again how about some stupid things that if corrected the movie would have been much better:

1) Isildur slices the ring off of Sauron. Gee what happened to Elendil and Gil-Galad and Sauron's fall? then Sauron turns into charcoal. How about showing 2 seconds of Elendil and Gil-Galad exchanging blows with him and then show him fall, then Isildur cuts the ring off.

2) How about Elrond. Hey Isildur come on with me I need to show you what to do with that thing... La dee da then Elrond takes him to Sammath Naur and says hey stupid throw that thing in... That was cheesy, the original story was better and I don't think it would have taken more time to tell it!

3) The wierd effect of what everything looks like when the ring is on. OK well Sam forgot he had it on in Cirith Ungol, and Bilbo described it as just a bit hazier, etc. I liked very much the Nazgul when Frodo saw them with the ring on. But the high winds and Van Gogh painting while wearing the ring was too much (how will he do the scene in the TT where Sam chases after the orcs? Let me guess that won't be in there).

4) How about Galadriel looking like she stuck her hand in a 115VAC outlet while she tells Frodo how great she would be after he offers her the ring. OK maybe this was allright.

5) Gimli taking an axe to the ring and then suddenly he has another axe. And no-one stops him from hitting it, but just showing it to Bilbo and Galadriel makes them freak.

6) ok ok I will stop

I liked the movie, I think it will have a great effect of getting people to read the book. But I was disappointed.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Eonwe
Speaking of the ring:
4) How about Galadriel looking like she stuck her hand in a 115VAC outlet while she tells Frodo how great she would be after he offers her the ring. OK maybe this was allright.

*chuckle* I thought that was pretty foolish looking myself. I was expecting her eyes to begin bulging out looking like Christopher Lloyd's character on "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" or like the music video "She Ain't Pretty She Just Looks That Way" from the Black Crowes. I'm sure that most people in the theatre were saying, "What the heck is she saying?" due to the 3 part synthesized voice.


Another thing that bothered me as well. Remember when the elves stopped them at Lorien. Why did Legolas raise a bow and arrow towards them? That is so WRONG! If anyone knows anything about elves, it's an elf! Tolkien made the relationship between Legolas and his kin positive from the start. I think that they may have been trying to portray the cohesion and protective nature of the Fellowhip toward each other. But the fact that Legolas would raise a bow and arrow in a menacing way to anothe elf like that is just stupid and out of character.

[Ancalagon]

Wesley my friend, you are obviously in dire need of help and assistance pertaining to your ring. Does it itch? Is it hot? Is there something we can do to relieve the pressure you have mounting on your ring?

Please feel free to ask the forum, I am sure they will be more than happy to help in any way they can.

[Greymantle]

The Ring....the Ring. I think that it's very difficult to get an idea of the true power of the Ring without having spent much time in M-e and with Tolkien's works. I'm not sure what I thought of the movie's portrayal. I think it probably depends upon what your perceptions were beforehand. For major Tolkien fans who already had a good idea of the power of the Ring, its portrayal in the film would probably seem okay. However, for people new to Tolkien, it's very hard to convey how much immense power is contained in such a little thing. I suppose it really depends upon perspective.
The one minute detail of the Brawl of Agent Elrond of which I approved was during the climax of the argument, Frodo looked at the Ring and saw the conflict and division between the people arguing reflected in the Ring itself. I don't know if this "symbolism" (or something!) was intended by the director, but I thought it was rather clever.

[Foe-Hammer]

Legolas was afraid when the Lorien elves confronted them. He sharnk against the bole of a tree. Even their own folk from the north (legolas) were sundered from them.

Couple that with your point about the bonds of the fellowship, and viola'! It fits! Total consistancy with the spirit of the book.

[proudfoot]

I agree that the Council of Elrond was mishandled. It needed to be a far grander and more expansive affair.

As far as Galadriel is concerned, it is a very difficult role to film. Galadriel is part-icon, part character, and these are always hard to realise. The scene where she "tests" the fellowship was, I think, well constructed, since in the book it is largely explained in re-call by the various characters. Similarly, her moment of temptation with the ring required an effect of some sort to demonstrate what Galadriel COULD become if she used its power. The book itself shows her becoming tall beyond measure and bright - both things hard to show on film.

Arwen's role is an on-going bone of contention, but once again we have to consider that the tale of Aragorn and Arwen is not told in the main books, but largely in appendices, and even in the timelines. This cannot be done in the film, therefore an enhanced role for Arwen in the narrative is basically unavoidable. If she hadn't appeared as she did, some other scenes would have had to be devised. The meeting in the book, as I remember was rather unexciting and unsuitable for filming without slowing the plot down.

[Grond]

Welcome to you. Though we should be brothers Foe-hammer, your continued championship of the movie over the book irks me. You seem to compare the book to the movie instead of the other way around. Let us not forget what went first or get the cart ahead of the horse, so to speak.

Yes, the movie conveyed Middle-earth in many aspects.... but it was not the vision of JRRT that guided this. My main gripe is that Peter Jackson, who was the guide, and the cast portrayed this as a true and significantly faithful rendering of the author's works. IT WAS NOT! Don't get me wrong, it was one of the best movies I've ever seen and one that this unemployed hammer will see more than once.... but IT WASN'T TRUE TOLKIEN AND IT WASN'T TRULY FAITHFUL!

In another thread I have discussed my likes and dislikes so you can read them there. But, for anyone to come in here saying that this is a true reflection of the author's world is just mistaken.

And Thorin, in The Book of Lost Tales, Vol II, it does state that Ecthelion thrust his pointed helmet up into the belly of Gothmog as the beast bent over to swing at him. That would concur with you assertion that the Balrog was roughly twice Elf-height or 12-14 feet tall. I will give PJ a pass here though as I liked his Balrog.

To all new members, I say HAIL AND WELL MET! We of the Senior Member Guild welcome you all! We only ask that you understand that this is a Tolkien forum and not a Jackson forum. We appreciate your points of view concerning both the movies and the books but please, as Patrick Swayze said in Road House, "Be Nice". Understand you are entering a forum that holds the works of JRRT sacrosanct and most have read his works many, many times. If you will cut us some slack, we will do the same. Violate the rules and you will suffer moderator consequences. Again, welcome all.

[LadyGaladriel]

It was an excellent movie , the only things i would change were Council of elrond and would have put tom and the Hall of fire in it.


But on the whole I like many others is just waitning untill it comes out so i can see it again and again and agin.......


The awards they won can't be undeserved!

[Camille]

Thorin I have to agree with you, the movie could have been much much better, I undestand that PJ had a difficult task, but I do not undestand why he made such big changes in the movie, I can undestand the tom Bombaldi but the Arwen thing no I can not or the Frodo/Aragon good bye.
And yes it seams in the movie that the big bad guy was Saruman not Sauron.
anyway I hope he will do better in TTT...

[lilhobo]

heheheh, who dug this up??? Harad would have had a field day if he/she were here :D

[Sam_Gamgee]

like i said in the carachter depth thread, it rocked, the movie rocks, the book rocks, tolkien rocks. and that is the bottom line. so pj has things off i dont care i loved it anyway i think he did an amazing job. and i always will think that.

[Grond]

I will reiterate what Thorin has said. I have reread this thread in its entirety and fail to find any instance where Thorin personally attacks or disrespects anyone. He does show a deep hatred of the movie (which is his right) and can't understand how any true Tolkien fan would like it... but he is merely expressing a personal opinion in general. It is when we get specific in pointing out certain posters and attacking them personally that things get our of hand.

Personally, I felt the movie was a poor adaptation but a great movie none the less. That is my opinion and it differs from Thorin's. We agree to disagree and still both respect and like one another.

To quote an old 70's song,
"C'mon people now... smile on your brother,
Everybody get together... try to love one another
right now... right now... right now!!"

[Daerandir]

Thorin, may I say it is wonderful to finally see someone who shares my opinions about the movie. I thought that your review was very well done and fair. Aditionally, I fail to see how any of your posts could be construed as insulting towards other posters. They all seemed well within the range of normal debate.
I expect a movie conversion to be *something* like the book. I tallied it up, and not *one* scene, not *one* character was unaltered, and I am not talking about shortening here. Some say that many of the changes were so "minor" that we should not care. Unfortunately, this arguement is self-defeating. If they are so minor, why did *PJ* bother to change them?

[ReadWryt]

If you have something to contribute to this disscussion about the movie, feel free to discuss it. If you have something to say about another member, say it in PMs and don't use the public forum to get your ya-yas off badmouthing someone just because you don't like their opinion. The next person in this thread who insists on talking smack about another member just to insult them will be removed for the rudeness to the rest of the people who are attempting to talk about the movie without having to wade through personal disputes with individuals.

R.W.