Post Counter

[Nóm]

I know this subject of post counts has come up in a lot of threads where people have asked about why posts do not count in one section of the forum, and mods have explained how it works.

Posts to not count in the new members forum because it was thought that this area is used to raise post counts, and posts do not count in Green Dragon for reasons I am unsure of... because it has a lot of spam? Because a lot is not Tolkien-related? I'm not sure on that one. Also posts do not count in Stuff and Bother because it is not Tolkien-related. At least this is one reason which has been offered.

It leaves one wondering why posts in Guild of Politics, Entmoot and Guild of Religion do count.

I really don't think it matters one way or the other which posts get counted since people do not get rewards of any sort for having a high count, but I seek to know what sense there is in it.

If the only reason for posts not counting in certain areas is to discourage people from posting for the sole purpose of raising their count (as opposed to them not being Tolkien-related areas), why then is S&B not counted?

I'll also ad that some threads in Bag End and elsewhere in Tolkien areas are great places to go if one wants to raise his post count. Just as well as Green Dragon, or new members, for example.

So I wonder what people think of this, and I'd like exact reasons for why the posts do not count where they do not count.

I am not tyring to stir up trouble, nor am I complaining... yet ;)

[Ithrynluin]

Also posts do not count in Stuff and Bother because it is not Tolkien-related. At least this is one reason which has been offered.


There's a lot of nonsense (even if it's fun nonsense) going on in Stuff and Bother, and there's no need why this should add up to one's post count. Prior to the post count being switched off in there, some people have been using S&B to increase their counts.

S&B is a highly-lighthearted area, and though threads with serious content do pop up from time to time, they are rare nonetheless.

In contrast, The GoP and GoR are 'serious' discussion areas, and I guess that posts that require thought and effort deserve to be counted, even when they are not Tolkien related.

The Green Dragon...well I don't really visit that section often so I can't say whether there's spam there or not really.

I'll also ad that some threads in Bag End and elsewhere in Tolkien areas are great places to go if one wants to raise his post count. Just as well as Green Dragon, or new members, for example.

Yup. But I don't think I'll go there, since I was ripped to shreds when I deleted the Middle Earth Name Game.

Perhaps a whole new section for Tolkien-related games would be a good solution? Of course, post counts would be turned off there.

[Elendil3119]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
Perhaps a whole new section for Tolkien-related games would be a good solution? Of course, post counts would be turned off there.
No, not another section! We have too many already. :(

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Elendil3119
No, not another section! We have too many already. :(

I share your sentiments.

The other solution would be turning post counts off in Bag End. That is, if the membership really feels the need for something like that being done.

[Nóm]

I don't see need for that to be done. But on the other hand I didn't see a need for posts in those other sections to stop being counted either.

[Talierin]

Spamming in S&B has been cut down tremendously since the post counts were turned off there, so it's been a good thing. As for New Members, there were some people in there that were replying to every single thread in there (in like a day) so I asked that the post count be turned off in there, which has helped that problem. Green Dragon I really can't say, I don't go in there enough (although I prolly should...) to know.

And I've long been a supporter of just turning the post counts off period, to me, in the sections we've done it, it's proven itself to help cut down the amount of spam. And I agree that Bag End really should have it turned off.

[Ithrynluin]

Well what does everyone think?

Should post counts be turned off altogether, or should they remain as they are now?

Or should we just turn them off in Bag End?

[Aulë]

The C9 have been discussing this very topic for about a week now.
Unfortunately, a few of the C9ers are away at the moment, so we don't have a verdict yet. I think the decision to remove the post counters all together has a small majority though.

[Celebthôl]

I really dont think that turning the PC off is a good idea...i doubt many members would support such an action. . . its a fun thing and hurts no one :rolleyes:

[Aglarthalion]

I don't really have an opinion either way, because I'm not concerned about post counts at all :p

[Aulë]

Well if members would stop posting short, usless posts all the time just to improve their post count, we wouldn't have to do this...:rolleyes:

And how is it fun? It's a number! :p

[Eledhwen]

Get rid of them!

They encourage spam.

They tell you nothing about the person who is posting and are not a reliable guide to a person's dedication to the forum (apart from Elgee of course).

Perhaps the post rate could be kept with an option for a rolling figure (post rate over the last week/month as well as overall).

If my husband were a member, he would disagree with me. He thinks numbers are fun (Aulë) and he finds statistics fascinating (maths degree). I only like them when they give me an understanding of a situation, and I don't see how post counts do that.

But then again, if people find them important.....

[Aulë]

Don't get me wrong, Eledhwen, as I do enjoy statistics myself.
But a single number on it's own really isn't that exciting...
"Woo! I have 6000 posts- that is so exciting" :rolleyes:

And Thol, they do hurt people.
Members who put a lot of thought and effort into their posts have to sit back and watch their threads degenerate into **** as people like you banter backwards and forwards in MSN-type convos.

[Ithrynluin]

But the question that comes to mind is: Would turning post counts off really stop the kind of posting habits you describe, Aulë?

[Aulë]

Well it couldn't become any worse than it is now if we remove the counter... (Although Thol says otherwise...:rolleyes: ).

[Starflower]

well I like the counter, I like statistics of any kind any way, but as a newbie, it makes one feel really quite proud of oneself when the post count increases , you know, like "gosh, I've posted 23 already " , and i see no harm in keeping it, and if people post useless stuff to increase the post count, maybe they should be disciplined somehow? like banning them from posting for a certain time or something?



Starflower
(87 posts ! YAY!!! )

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Aulë
The C9 have been discussing this very topic for about a week now.
Unfortunately, a few of the C9ers are away at the moment, so we don't have a verdict yet. I think the decision to remove the post counters all together has a small majority though.


Was C9 not going to get our opinions before deciding what is best for us?

How many other things have you guys decided for us without us being aware the thing was being decided, or having heard our opinions on the matter?

Or, maybe I'm just wrong about what C9 is.


About the poll here, I voted to get rid of them! But what do I know.

[Lúthien Séregon]

Is there really that much spam in the forum to result in the deletion of the post counter? The only place that allows for off-topic posts are the S&B and New Members sections. All other sections that aren't related to LotR are still dedicated to serious discussion, or are restricted by particular interests or groups.

Therefore, I don't think deleting the post count would really help improve the forum that much at all. I think the only two areas that needed the post count being turned off were the S&N and New Members sections, in which they already have been, so I think it's all good as it is. :D

[Nóm]

I'll give my reason for wanting the post count gone.

Look who the most popular people at TTF are and then look at their post counts. I know after my count got high then all the sudden people started to listen to my opinion, but back when I had 200 posts no one even heard me (except maybe Grond :D). I think people get undue respect for having high counts, and some (not all!) people think a person is 'cool' or umm... a great quality poster just because the person has a high count.


Simply: People get judged by their counts.

However, a few die hards may start getting their counts using the search feature and then manually insert this into their 'Deep Thoughts' or 'siggie' ;).

[Idril]

Originally posted by Nóm
Was C9 not going to get our opinions before deciding what is best for us?

How many other things have you guys decided for us without us being aware the thing was being decided, or having heard our opinions on the matter?

Or, maybe I'm just wrong about what C9 is.

I too would like to know the answer to this. Is C9 doing things off there own back?

Back to the poll, I have to admit I like having the counter, and I've voted to keep it.

There is a lot of rubbish being posted my a few members - What's happened to the warning points for spamming which could lead to banning - is this not being enforced? A more drastic action would be to simply delete the offending posts (not entire threads) and mark them as spam. Between the warning points and deletion, I'm sure spamming can be brought under control.

[Ithrynluin]

You're right about the warning points as the solution to this. The mods have been far too gentle and forgiving concerning people who post short sentences that are relatively off topic or useless pieces of information, only to increase their post counts. And even if it's not to increase their post count, this is still not okay.

I also agree with Nom's point. Some people just instantly look up to members with high post counts.

[Idril]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
I also agree with Nom's point. Some people just instantly look up to members with high post counts. Only for as long as it takes to read some of their posts;).

[Aulë]

Originally posted by Nóm
Was C9 not going to get our opinions before deciding what is best for us?

How many other things have you guys decided for us without us being aware the thing was being decided, or having heard our opinions on the matter?

Or, maybe I'm just wrong about what C9 is.


What we were planning to do, was to discuss it amongst ourselves. Once we, as the C9, had come to a sort of decision, we present the pros and cons (and what we suggest) to the members.
The members can then look at what the C9 have said, and look at what options the C9 have suggested. They can either disagree with the C9, or agree.

The C9 can not make any decisions without the support of the members. If the C9 members want a change, but the normal members do not, then the change does not take place.
Otherwise we would sort of be defeating the purpose of the C9 ;)

[Nóm]

Thanks for answering Aule.

As for C9 not making decisions without the support of the members... That reminds me of something! I wonder how many members of the various debating guilds know that the C9 decided for them that people are allowed to be in more than 1 debating guild. Should that not have been up to each guild? Also, were all of the guild leaders contacted and asked for their opinion? Besides... I think they all allowed people who were in another debating guild anyhow?

ithrynluin, I didn't necessarily mean 'look up to' so much as 'value opinion of' or even 'notice existance of' hehe! But really anyone who would (and I'm not saying anyone does... for if they did how should I know?) automaticly assign a very high opinion of a person for the sole reason of high post count, is their own problem. So, I suppose it really doesn't matter if the counts stay or go, but I have to say to me it would make more sense to count all or none, than to only leave out those 3 sections which do not count at the moment. And also, if it has indeed cut down on spam why not apply to the entire forum and see what happens.

About the mods cracking down on spam... hmmm I suppose that wouldn't be easy for you guys considering that for some members this may seem as though the thing they use TTF for is no longer welcome.

I started an Inn awhile back and when I did so I checked out the other Inns and Bars just to see what they were like and some of them are very full of spam. If these were to be cracked down on, I think there would be a lot of very unhappy people, maybe?

But them being full of spam goes to show that folks will spam, and will do so a lot, even if it doesn't add to their count.

[Aulë]

Originally posted by Nóm
Thanks for answering Aule.

As for C9 not making decisions without the support of the members... That reminds me of something! I wonder how many members of the various debating guilds know that the C9 decided for them that people are allowed to be in more than 1 debating guild. Should that not have been up to each guild? Also, were all of the guild leaders contacted and asked for their opinion? Besides... I think they all allowed people who were in another debating guild anyhow?
Our thoughts were that it would be up to the Guild to decide whether to accept members from other Guilds. What would be the point of opening up a forum discussion for something as trivial as that?
I actually don't think we have come to a 'final' decision regarding it. Half the the C9ers seem to have disappeared, and it makes it difficult to find out what the 'majority' of the C9 think.

Anamatar was suppost to PM all the Guild Leaders concerning the matter. Whether he has done that, I do not know.

[DGoeij]

I don't really see the purpose of a post count. It's information, sure, but what's the difference if you don't know how many posts somebody made? I see them only occasionally encouraging someone to start posting a lot of rubbish, known a spam. Quality, not Quantity, if I remember correctly.:D

[Turin]

I don't think pc should be turned off, why would you? I like my post count and enjoy setting goals for myself, I think if you turned the pc off then members wouldn't want to post as much, thus making the forum a pretty boring place. So I don't think they should be turned off and I hope more people agree with me.

[Aulë]

Originally posted by Turin
I don't think pc should be turned off, why would you? I like my post count and enjoy setting goals for myself, I think if you turned the pc off then members wouldn't want to post as much, thus making the forum a pretty boring place. So I don't think they should be turned off and I hope more people agree with me.
Why do you need to set goals?
All that does is tempt you to post lower quality posts to achieve your 'goal' earlier, and there you have it- spam.
Turning the PC off will not stop members from posting. People don't post here to see their post counters (well...the spammers do). If it stopped anything, it would be the bad posts, not the well thought out ones.

[YayGollum]

What makes you think that setting goals for yourself means that you have to do it in a lazy or lighthearted or spammy type way? Or what makes you think that setting goals for yourself makes people want to get there in those ways? I can see why someone might glance at the little number and say ---> "Oo! I have twenty-six thousand, nine hundred, and fifty post thingys! I should get fifty more to get twenty-seven thousand! I like that number better." That person would then go about their business and post as usual. When they get to twenty-seven thousand, they might even miss the time to celebrate because they're having so much fun with intelligent discussions. :D

[Turin]

Alright forget about the 'goals' thing, its just something I do for fun. You don't find my posts meaningless and 'spammy' do you?
What would be the point of removing the pc? If you did how would you know when you could get an avatar if you were a new member?

[Celebthôl]

For crying out loud, why don't you just leave it alone, it hasn't caused any lasting harm ever, and i have NEVER seen it cause any harm at all.
And if people do want to make a competion out of it, let them! It doesn't hurt you, there is no spam on this site, its amazingly clean IMHO, it adds a little extra fun to TTF, if you don't like it, then don't bloody view it, it's as simple as that!

On an ironic note, can a mod please change my vote from "yes" to "no" :o

[Elendil3119]

I agree with Thôl. Just leave the silly thing alone. There are larger 'problems' with this forum than spammers and post counts. :rolleyes:

Personally, I think it's sorta fun to have the post counts there. I could hardly care less about my own, but it's nice to be able to see how many other members have. IF it is decided to remove the post count, maybe we could just have it in the User CP so members can still see how many posts they have.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

HLGStrider 12-17-2001 5167
YayGollum 12-03-2001 4862
Anamatar IV 08-15-2002 4050
Wonko The Sane 05-06-2002 3765
Grond 10-31-2001 2907
Lantarion 08-19-2001 2872
Tar-Ancalime 08-25-2001 2774
Celebthôl 10-02-2002 2698
Nenya Evenstar 08-08-2002 2649
Nóm 04-19-2002 2595

10. Nóm: Elf Friend, and Respectable Poster.
Most of her posts, in fact all I have seen, are honest and well written. They are long and to the topic, and most all are centered around Tolkien's works. Nom is a person I do respect, because she has genuine love for LOTR and the related works, and she posts in a manner that makes me respect her. She is a person worthy of a high post count. I would quote her, but her posts are too long, and quite simply ARE NOT SPAM. Sure there may be a few here and there, but not NEAR as much as the others Im about to highlight.

Good job Nom! Keep the quality posts coming! They're always a great read.

9. Nenya Evenstar: C9 Member and Unsung Hero.
While searching for posts by Nenya, I saw that most of the threads that came up were either in the Member Announcements forum, and other forums concerning TTF and her members as a whole. For not being a mod, Nenya certainly does a lot of work, and is often not recognized for it. Now I did find some examples of spam, generally in the thread 'Great Members', and in some of the 'Heren Istarion' archives. But then again, the Great Members thread IS spam in itself. *There IS MSN for a reason people! USE IT!*

All in all, congrats Nenya! If only more people could be as dedicated to the forum as you are! You are indeed worthy of being looked up to, and even if you do spam (which is rare) you at least use correct spelling and capitilization and more than one sentence. More than I can say for some of these other folks...

8. Celebthôl: The Griffin Tamer full of questions (and spam)!
Just in searching in the LOTR forum, I found 12 threads created by Thol in the last couple of months. Well thats not so bad you say. But these threads are those terrible 'What if' questions, as in what if the Huorns came to Mordor? Or what if Saruman would have remained loyal to Sauron... yadda yadda. But all in all, thats not too bad. To really see the true essence of this person with a high post count, one has to look in such threads as 'The Hobbit Trivia.' Thol really shines in how he does not stay even close to the topic at hand (which happens quite often):
In 'Hobbit Trivia:'
{Post #1}: ROFLMAO!!!!

No you were right to yell at me

I edited it quick and hope it wasnt spotted

Im sowwy

Dont doubt yourself. . .


*snickers*
{Post #2}: RUN LIKE THE WIND!!!!
{Post #3}: Whats a proverb?
{Post #4}: yes you do, ignore Aulë, hes the resident moron!
Wow! What did that have to do with The Hobbit? And how can anyone post THREE words and sleep at night? Keep in mind that those posts were in successive order, seperated by a few posts by other members, whom were actually discussing The Hobbit. Heres another example, which I have come to realize that most of Thol's spamming occurs in the Members threads: Look at the Fotoalbum thread, or the Great Members thread, or any thread in the Members Announcements forum he's posted in. It's pretty sick, and not worth the great post count he has.

This is how I feel when I read his posts (Thol said it best in the Guild of Pirates thread):ARRR!!!

Tis a day before our special day me scurvy curs!

ARRR!!! Yes, that WAS an actual post...

7. Tar-Ancalime: Dark Queen of Mordor, and of worthless posts which would make Sauron soil his pants.
In the thread: Do you cry while reading LOTR?:
{Post #1} the faramir and eowyn scene makes me happy(i cry thinking about it)
{Post #2} that makes sense i wanted to kill gollum
{Post #3} ohhh,when gollum betrays sam and frodo. i start yelling really loud and uttering a death wish for gollum.
{Post #4} I know the whole betrayl was necesasry for getting into mordor and all, but at the spur of that moment i despised him than it wore off.
{Post #5} LOL, once i was reading lotr for the first time and the teacher was calling me to pay attention and a said,"Saurman you traitor!"~lol
Keep in mind that these posts were seperated by only one post by another member! In regards to #1- I cry thinking about your posts. #3- I start uttering a really loud death wish for any thread spam like this is posted in. #5- The only thing I think is funny is your lack of spelling, punctuation, and capitilization. This is a perfect example of why high post counts are bad and how new members falsely look up to these people with high post counts. Is it right that someone who posts so much spam (with incorrect grammar, spelling, etc.) to be looked up to due to the number of posts they've posted?

Now I dont think I need post examples of posts from the 'Finish this Ridiculous Story thread' as every single post IS spam, but the lovely Queen of Mordor posted 600 TIMES in this thread! 600!!! Mon dieu! Not all of Tar's posts are **** (though most are considered spam), but I simply cannot find a post to use as an example without filtering through obscene amounts of posts that have to do with 'LOL ohhh im so mad i haTe goLuym!!!1111' . To me, the great deal of her posts do not seem worthy of a high post count.

6. Lantarion- Lord Mod, and Loremaster Extraordinaire!
I like people that have high post counts and post posts that have meaning. My main reason for saying this is because it gives my fingers a rest from typing so much abuse! ;) But seriously, Lantarion is a great guy. He posts all over TTF, and the posts I have seen are spam free. Even if they are short in content, they are well thought out, and do not stray from the main subject of the thread.

Very worthy of respect, I cant find a single 'spam' in the search. Good job! All hail Lanty!

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Elendil3119
There are larger 'problems' with this forum than spammers and post counts. :rolleyes:

Are you going to tell us what those are? Of course, if it is a complaint is it supposed to go to Webmaster. :D

Good job Nom! Keep the quality posts coming! They're always a great read.
Thanks Dain, I'm glad you enjoy them.

[Celebthôl]

Which means he cant post them :p

He MUST PM them to WM ;)

[Elendil3119]

Originally posted by Nóm
Are you going to tell us what those are? Of course, if it is a complaint is it supposed to go to Webmaster. :D
This isn't a general 'complaining' thread, so I won't go into detail. ;) And yeah, we're supposed to go to WM now...

[Turin]

I agree with Thol and Elendil, if its not causing any problems just leave it alone, I enjoy knowing how many posts I have.

[Celebthôl]

*SIGH*

Daín, though i do post stuff like that, I do NOT (and I can swear on anything you like), post to raise my post count, I post what is on my mind at that time and generally what i feel like posting. Its a free board after all :rolleyes:. And I post more than the "1 word" that would make it spam :rolleyes:.

[Talierin]

Speaking of spam, I am going to be cracking down on spam hopefully this month. I've already started on the other guilds section, which is pretty bad... and I'd like to get to Green Dragon and get that place cleaned up...

But I still say turn the post count off! Yes, there are prolly other, bigger problems to worry about, but turning it off would be one less thing to deal with.

EDIT: and Thol, spam doesn't have to be just one word... I would have to agree that those posts dain showed us of yours would be spam.

[Celebthôl]

So Tal, just so i am totally clear on this; what problems does it cause exactly?

[Talierin]

Well for one thing, members complaining about other members with high counts, members with high counts running around making threads and posts whenever they reach a certain number, higher rates of spam in some sections, etc

[Nóm]

Well the problems I know of it causing are: 1) Some believe it causes spam. I also believe it does, but I think this is not very common. 2) Some people (I am one) find it a bit annoying that others give much weight and value to the number of posts that people have. Examples would be people who compete to have a higher count than this person or that one. It is also evident (as I pointed out in my opening post) by the fact that high post counts generally go hand in hand with overall recoginition and high opinion of members. However, this can not be measured because those with high counts may not be thought more highly of by some because of the count being visible, but rather because they have a zillion posts out there that people are seeing.

The second is not a serious problem at all, and may even lie with the people are are annoyed with it as much as with the people who do it.

I am not sure to what extent the first problem exists.

I have an overall impression (please correct me if this is wrong) that those in favour of keeping the Post Counts are more strong in that opinion than those who think it should probably go. If this is true, it may be best to keep the Post Counts. If there is no clear answer, is it better to have some slighly unhappy than to have some extremely unhappy?

For example: I am pretty sure that Thol's count means more to him than having no Post Counts would mean to me.

*******************

But again, I started this thread (then later asked ithrynluin to add the poll), to discuss the fact that posts do not count where they don't, and do count where they do, and also to find out the exact reason for the posts in S&B not counting. Talierin has said that the level of spam went down in the forums where Posts ceased to be counted, and given this I think it may be worth finding out how the removal of the Post Count will effect the entire forum. But as I pointed out earlier, Green Dragon has a ton of spam and that area does not count, so I am very skeptic about the chance of the removal of the Post Count cutting down the level of spam.


***Edit***

members with high counts running around making threads and posts whenever they reach a certain number, higher rates of spam in some sections, etc
Yes. This is annoying to me, but I suppose it shouldn't bother me. But, it is really a case of a few people causing us to question the Count for everyone. I do not know why people do this... I suppose it is not really harming anything, but is just irritating. At least that is how it is to me.

[Talierin]

Well, in general the nature of the Green Dragon section gives it over to spam (I would actually love to see it just deleted and done with, although that would make a lot of members mad and they would leave). But even still, in a small way I think it helped in there, for awhile. I have not looked in there in a long time, but I'm assuming it's probably gotten worse than it was before we turned off PCs in there. Part of that is my fault, I've been lazy and haven't really done my job in there. (although it would help if we had a mod who actually reads and enjoys the section to keep it up. It's hard to mod something you have no interest in) I shall try to get it cleaned up this month.

My suggestion is, why don't we have a trial session (say, a month or so) of turning them off completely, and see what happens. If the majority of people hate it, we can always turn them back on. If the majority like it, and don't miss it, leave it off. I think that's the only real way to see what will happen.

[Idril]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
So Tal, just so i am totally clear on this; what problems does it cause exactly?

It's actually kinda irritating wading through all the spam and childish nonsense in some threads.

but then I'm an old fuddy duddy - who cares:rolleyes:

[Talierin]

I agree, Idril... even if it's funny stuff, it gets to the point where there's just so much of it it's not funny anymore.

[Celebthôl]

What is wrong with a little healthy competition? It doesnt cause hate, its just a bit of fun.
And well i don't go full out to get it high, i like to "boast" (for want of a better word) about it, its all in fun, its not serious at all.
And, no, I do not think higher of posters who have high post counts. Some people i.e. Tal and Anc who have relatively low post counts for the time they have been here, I respect heap loads, but i dont respect most people anymore or less because of post-counts but because of how they are on the forum in general.
And no, I had this convo with Aulë, I really wouldnt care if the PC was reset, i think it would actually be interesting, in the way that we can see who posts the quickest etc....

[FoolOfATook]

Frankly, I haven't seen any sort of a persuasive case made to the point that we should keep the bloody things, and although I'm not completely convinced about the relationship between post counts and spam, in the abstract it does make sense.

If they were gone the next time I logged on, I wouldn't miss them.

[Nóm]

My suggestion is, why don't we have a trial session (say, a month or so) of turning them off completely, and see what happens. If the majority of people hate it, we can always turn them back on. If the majority like it, and don't miss it, leave it off. I think that's the only real way to see what will happen.

I think this is what should be done. Maybe some people will object to it, but it seems fair.

And yes Thol, length of post is not a criteria for a post being spam. It just happens that a lot of spam are short posts. But many short posts are necessary posts with a purpose that is useful.

I wouldn't want to see the Green Dragon go, because there are some areas there with great creative writing and real subtsance (hint hint - my Inn ;)). I am sure a lot of people will be very unhappy when Green Dragon gets cracked down on, but those will probably only be the people who have been doing a lot of spamming so maybe they should just deal with it, like it or not. It might be hard though.

[Turin]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
i think it would actually be interesting, in the way that we can see who posts the quickest etc....

Gee I wonder who would win that, since he's on the forum almost all day *cough* Thol *cough*, I used to be on alot but now school and homework are killing me.

[Idril]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
I really wouldnt care if the PC was reset, i think it would actually be interesting, in the way that we can see who posts the quickest etc....

But is this not exactly what we are referring to?

Originally posted by Turin
Gee I wonder who would win that, since he's on the forum almost all day *cough* Thol *cough...

I'm on all day and sometimes I don't post anything ..... . We are back to quality not quantity.

[Talierin]

Well, I still need to have a look in there to see what's been going on, but part of my plan is to go through each thread and judge its worth and whether it will be staying or not. Probably most of the really spammy ones with say, one sentence posts back and forth will either be deleted or archived.


And just resetting the post count is in general a really *bad* idea, because then your little "competition" that you speak of (which really says a lot about your view on this matter.... :rolleyes: ) would just get worse with the spam.

[Celebthôl]

Yes it's fair, but i dont think we should get rid of it, as Turin said before his post got deleted, im on here LOADS, but usually i dont make more than about 10 posts a day, there are of course occasions like today, where i post more, but i dont go hell-for-leather in the boards to increase my post count. :rolleyes:
As i said, i post what is on my mind at that time.

But is this not exactly what we are referring to?

No we are talking about getting rid of it permanently!!! :( :eek:


And just resetting the post count is in general a really *bad* idea, because then your little "competition" that you speak of (which really says a lot about your view on this matter.... ) would just get worse with the spam.

*sigh*

And you are basing this on what? Has this ever been done before?

[Talierin]

Btw, I just posted part one of my cleaning plan to the mods, to see what they think. If they like it, and WM is willing to make it happen, I'll present it to the members.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

5. Grond: Moderator, and King of Balrogs.
Ah... not too much to say about Grond. He's another good guy. His posts were mainly in the Guild of Tolkienology, concerning Member positions, language lessons, and the like. I respect people that do not hesitate to help and instruct fellow members, and he always has something intelligent to say about any discussion on LOTR. A reason for his high post count is most likely his extensive membership to this site. Though the number of posts may have reduced over the years, he is still a strong poster, and full of 'quality not quantity' as Anc would say.

No reason for quoting here, I couldn't find anything to quote. Very worthy of his high post count, and its good to see such a senior member still hanging around.

4. Wonko the Sane: [she who weeps] (as I do when I read some of her posts).
I like Wonko. I respect her. But its not because of her post count. She's blunt, she's friendly, and very honest (painstakingly so). So with that being said, I'm sure she won't mind honesty about her posts. Here are a few examples in the Eowyn Admiration Thread:The Eowyn Admiration Thread:
{Post #1} Hehe. I found it from someone who thought it was funny.
Beorn even let me make a thread about it.
It IS hilarious. It's like, "I think Legolas and Haldir in the movie are getting it on" and then you go to the site and there are the pix to prove it!
But if you click on "Desktops" on their main page you go to the acceptable pix.

Enjoy!
{Post #2} Snaga copied that quote into the copy of The Sil he gave me when he was visiting...
He says that's how he feels about me...

Makes me want to cry it does.
{Post #3} Alright, then I must ask Aulë to clarify if he hates Eowyn because he really dislikes her character, or if he SAYS he hates her, as he indicated to me, only to try to get a rise out of Rhiannon?

If the latter is true, then I suggest you delete his post as well.Just a little snippet of this gal's posts. I wouldn't classify her posts as spam, though they are obscenely off topic, and should be restricted to a MSN convo. Its one thing to have a post where you talk about the topic and deviate from it a bit, but Wonks posts entire posts that deviate from the topic, and do not resemble a thing about the topic at hand. Much of these deviations have to do with her Orcish finacée, Snaga. I think it is great that they are getting hitched, but we do not need to hear about it in every thread we go to, or be barraged by numerous threads concerning that very topic. Now Wonks, dont take this the wrong way, but heres an idea: Maybe make one thread and consolidate all the stuff about you and Snaga in it? That would be much more preferrable than a thread about your engagement, a thread about your trip to England, etc.

Wonks also posts in nearly every forum, which would normally be good except some forums she doesnt have much to do with at all... but whatever, one has to give her credit for being well rounded, right? :rolleyes: I'm a bit torn to say if she deserves the high post count or not... mainly because I'm afraid of her retribution, which will be both swift and terrible.

3. Anamatar- Yoyo, Anabelle! Yoyo Anabelle!
Ah, Anaranamanatar. He's young. He's smart. He's so cute! *pinches cheeks* He's everything Michael Jackson was and everything Gary Coleman wanted to be! Though I havent been here for a year, I've been able to see Anamatar grow up in maturity of his posts. It's like watching a little baby take his first steps... awww...:p . Seriously, Anamatar HAS matured on the forum, and its evident in his posts. Take this for instance, posted in August of 02:'your most esteemed wizards,' said a cloaked man that had just entered the arena and was bowing low. 'May i be of a service in the battle between these valiant warriors?'
{Post #2} is not the arena large enough to house 2 battles? I see before my eyes 2 judges.
{Post #3} The man points his towards the dwarfs head. He awaits the movement of the axe.
{Post #4} please put on a show for us! Ive never seen magic before! PLEEEAAAAASSSSEEE?Wow. Such skill and spam! Now imagine 102 posts just like that! Scary, huh? Thats where the bulk of his post count comes from unfortunately, and Im a bit disappointed I cant find the thread where Anamatar hands people their staves and such. :D But as summer turns to fall, so must people mature. Anamatar went from that, to this:In the middle of a great flat field covered with swaying grasses a dozen horses rode pulling six carts behind them. They stopped in the exact center of the field. Out of one cart appeared Anamatar in workclothes. He looked back to the rest of campus. Four more carts were coming. They came up to where Anamatar stood. Many workmen and builders jumped out of the carts and stepped to the first six. They unloaded the stacks of wood that filled them.

"We should have this gazeebo up by the end of the day," Anamatar spoke to the forty of so builders that were arrayed around him. "Remember, we are in need of haste! I am expecting to use this tomorrow!" With those words the workers sprang to their feet and started building a great gazeebo. When it would be done it would easily fit three hundred and more people. The plans called for a large stage to be set at one end. A large hole would be cut from the roof to allow people to view the stars over head.

The group worked hard, setting up the frame for the Grand Gazeebo first.After about December or so, Anamatar really changed from his lighthearted Tar and Thol-like spamming to actual posts! Yay Anamatar! Now I would have to say he is worthy of his high post count, though I wonder how high the count would really be without all the spam he started out with...

2. YayGollum: Conscience of TTF *ick ack run and hides*
Alas, the Gollum lover is not a spammer, but to me more of an annoyance. Often he posts in every thread, and if he isnt satisfied with whats going on, he will post something rude dotted with those lovely asteriks! {Post #1} just because I disagree with a point doesn't mean that I don't understand it, robbie person. I'm not a huge fan of having my intelligence insulted. I understand that other characters did useful type...
{Post #2} Got it. You're saying that since I seem disagreeable, you'll just toss the opinions out of some crazy window. oh well. But then, yes, I would have found a nicer way to say that if it wasn't so late. I'm losing my ability to hold back the brutal honesty. Whoops!
{Post #3} I disagree with everything you say? I did not know that. oh well. That's a good reason to ignore me? I did not know that. oh well. Anyways, what crazy ideas? Are tossing my own opinions around about your ideas crazy? Huh. sorry about that. I thought that when people toss ideas around, they expect honest reactions. Or should I just brainlessly agree with everything you say? What I wanted to illustrate is how a person with such a high post count is looked up to and then people see someone that can be a bit rude sometimes. I wont even get into the True Hero of LOTR thread. Bunch of nonsense about Gollum being the true hero and more insults for people who have different opinions.

Yay! *hides*

1. HLGStrider: Deluged Skedaddler and Kitty Queen. MEOW!
So she's pretty. She's friendly. She's cute. Meow. The thing with Elgee is that her posts (outside of S and B) are actually with meaning. I was seriously amazed by some of her arguments in the GoP and the GoR. However, the S and B has become her private domain of nonsense, along with every bar and lighthearted thread of TTF's existence (she has 621 posts in The Ridiculous Story Thread!). I am tired of seeing threads spring up saying: 'Should Elgee love this guy?' or 'Which dress should I wear, meow!' and other threads of a similar manner, asking us to make decisions for her. Stuff and Bother is not labelled Elgee's Decision Forum, so lets keep those crazy polls outta there (or at least reduce the sheer number of them)I thought for sure everyone already knew. . .it's hard to miss an elephant in spandex. ;)-Pure Elgee material. I doubt I have room to post the spam in the bars, and the Green Dragon, and etc. but that is where most of her posts come from. Its sad to see a person with over 5000 posts in which most of it is like the above quote. Bleh.

SO
In all, now that I've made about six people very angry, get rid of the post count. It's obvious that the Post Count is not doing an accurate job of highlighting the members who are the most respectable posters and who represent the senior lovers of Tolkien. While they may all love LOTR, it seems they haven't displayed this that well, as most of these Top Ten cant post a thing about him! Argh, get rid of the post count!!! In my eyes, and many others, the people with the most are overshadowing those who actually post worthwhile things. Also if a mod could combine my two very long posts that would be appreciated. Dont take offense to anything I wrote... its not an attack on your character, just on your atrotcious writing.

[Celebthôl]

Yes I know nuthing on Tolkien, the only reason i spent the last year here was to spam and reach top 10 posters just to annoy people and to get the PC deleted :rolleyes:.

This is so pathetic, just leave the darn thing as it is!!!! :mad:

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

While they may all love LOTR, it seems they haven't displayed this that well, as most of these Top Ten cant post a thing about him
A general statement I made. In no way did it say you knew 'nuthing' about Tolkien, just that you dont post about stuff related to him.

You are free to interpret it as you wish, but I do know you know a lot more than 'nuthing' (sp?) about Tolkien than what you often post.

[Nóm]

A general statement I made. In no way did it say you knew 'nuthing' about Tolkien, just that you dont post about stuff related to him.
To be fair I run into him in the book forums a lot more than the majority of members. But Politics and Religion is a big part of TTF now, and Thol posts there too.

Anyhow, we've all spent a lot of time and effort on a topic that may hardly be worth consideration. Is this whole thread spam? ;)

[Snaga]

Dain you have no right to post offensive comments like this.

I don't know who the hell you think you are to post this sort of attack on your fellow members, but I know that more than one of your targets are pretty offended.

Furthermore many of the light-hearted and perhaps somewhat off-topic posts from our Top 10 members (or anyone else come to that) make for a positive atmosphere that your obnoxious, self-important and condescending attacks are only destroying.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Hello Wonks. I wont even try to argue... but I do know that I said what I wanted to say, and I meant every bit of it. Notice I did it without using profanities. Profanities and anger is what I think destroy this wonderful place.

I posted in a constructive manner, its up to each individual on how to take it.

[Celebthôl]

Sorry :( I was....frustraited.

But i do post about other things. . . because altough I love Tolkien and all his works, you cant JUST talk about that, I socialize more than most on certain threads and I talk more about Tolkien and LOTR etc, like in me "skeptics" thread.

[Talierin]

I think that maybe you shouldn't be offended... Dain was just being honest. Don't take me wrong, it was a very blunt honesty, but he does bring up some things that maybe those in question need to fix, as well as the rest of us, but please, let's not start a fight on this thread, k?

And Thol, calm down. It just gets us nowhere when you start getting angry. Besides, this is no matter to get seriously angry on.

And yes, talking about stuff other than just Tolkien all the time is good, but not when it gets to the point of spam, as I have seen some of your posts reach.

[Nóm]

Don't worry Thol. It is just one person's opinion. As I said in another thread a few weeks ago you are one of my favorite book posters. So that's another person's opinion. Almost everyone spams sometimes anyhow... it's only a big deal if it happens all the time or all over the place, or hijacks innocent threads that had a real purpose that was completely lost to the spam, especially against the will of those who were posting on topic.

And your love for Middle-earth does show through (especially when you get all heated about hating Feanor :p), so keep in mind one person's impression (especially if gained from a quick search to evalute you) is just that.

***Edit***

Regarding Dain's posts being just 'honesty' or having good intentions - I seem to recall Wonko and I being discouraged for doing a similar thing awhile back. Granted one was about a moderator... but still. It may not be ment as an attack but it remains that people will be offended by it.

[Celebthôl]

I still think it is totally pathetic even thinking about taking away the counter, it will just cause arguments between members, why not make an option (in the "User CP options" majiga") that allows you to turn it off and not view it, then you lot dont have to bother with it and we can all stop going on about it and can get back to our normal lives! :rolleyes:

Edit: Thanx Nom :)

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Thanks for your support Tal, the truth hurts sometimes, n'est-ce pas?

And I have plenty more fodder to throw, in case anyone wants to play. I really do not appreciate any rude remarks, we members in the shadows have put up with thousands of spam for a while now. So once again I would like to say 'get rid of the post count', the anger of some people shows just how competitive it makes this forum, and how the competition is destroying the forum. TTF is not about who has the most posts, but for some reason people think that way.

I feel like Yoda. Senseless posts lead to spamming. Spamming leads to hate. Hate leads to DESTRUCTION OF TTF!

EDIT: Id also like to say Thol is a devoted Tolkien-ee. But it is discouraging to see someone who is so worthy of being looked up to post senseless things instead of being an example. Thats really all I was trying to say.

[Talierin]

I really can't see arguments between members starting up if we got rid of it...
And I'm still standing by my suggestion of let's just try it for a period of about a month and see what happens. It's easy enough to turn back on if nobody likes it being gone.

[Celebthôl]

I DONT LIKE IT BEING GONE!!! *raises hand* ;)

No, mybe not arguments, but there will be anger/annoyance in the forum from many members.

[Talierin]

I don't think there will be. I'm betting most of them won't even miss it. It's just a little number anyways. But like I said, we'll just have to try it to see.

[Celebthôl]

And what about those few? They just have to like it or lump it? Hardly fair really :( it doesnt effect most people anyways.

[Wonko The Sane]

Dain, it might interest you to know that it was actually I who introuduced the topic of deleting post counts to the C9, and I am in fact, the main supporter of that in our Council.
I suppose that doesn't matter though.
I mean, it's interesting to know what people REALLY think of me, isn't it?
Snaga may be right, you really didn't have any right to say what you said. It's hurtful and cruel.
You are in no place to judge who are the more "serious" members, who are more worthy of respect, etc.
In fact, considering your attitudes on things and the way you've been slagging off fellow members I really don't WANT your respect.
The respect of people like you is hollow indeed.

But on a different note, those posts you quoted of mine actually WERE on topic.

The first was in the context of Rhiannon asking about Eowyn desktops. I linked her to a site that had some, but warned her to steer clear of their homoerotic images as well.

The second was in regards to a quote I posted from "Beren & Luthien" which Snaga wrote in the front of the copy of The Sil he gave me. I likened the way Luthien came to Beren "beyond his hope" to the relationship Eowyn had with Faramir.

The last post you mentioned was in response to something Aule said. He came into the thread to give Rhiannon a hard time. When I told him to cut it out the post was deleted, and I wrote the post you quoted in response, saying that if Aule meant what he said that was fine but he should give reasons for hating Eowyn, and if he didn't mean it and only said it to get Rhiannon's goat then I suggested to the mod in question that his post be deleted as well.

There you are. None of those posts were actually spam, really.
And you mention that Elgee has many thoughtful posts outside S&B in the GoP and the GoR...though I suppose my posts in those guilds don't count, do they?
Is it because I'm expressing unpopular opinions you don't approve of, or because you chose to ignore them in your attempts to make me look bad?


If this is really how people think of me then I'm sorry to say that my efforts to prove myself a serious member have failed, and I will leave the forum after all. About 9 or so months ago I felt that people considered me to be exactly what you have said. This is also in response to a few cutting, and rude remarks I had heard some of the mods had been making about me, as well as the rumoured sentiments of fellow members.
I chose, instead, to try to show people that the days of my true spamming (I will admit they existed the first 3 months or so after I joined the forum) were over. I tried to show that I was, in fact, a serious member.

Though I suppose you'll ignore my posts on the "Could Hobbits use magic" thread, and the "Wings or No?" thread, etc. etc. where I actually discuss Tolkien related issues. (Something I cannot say for the rest of the posters you mentioned. I did, in fact, try to see how many pages of posts I could go through from a few of those members before I found a Tolkien page. For one member I got to 6 pages with NO Tolkien posts, and quit out of despair.)
Yeah, you're right. It's spam. All of it. Right? I mean, and I'll appreciate that "honesty" from you, because I'm not, as I've said before, a deeply sensitive person or anything.

Oh well. I suppose that this is really a good thing right? I mean, when I introduced the idea of taking down the post counts to the C9 I knew my proposal would be unpopular. I never imagined it would lead to such an attack on myself and other members of the forum whom I both respect and consider my close friends.

I don't know what warrants respect from you, Dain. If it's because someone only posts in 100% serious threads all the time, and never strays off topic no matter what kind of person they are otherwise, or if you grant respect to people who do go off-topic but are good people, loving, kind, caring, and sweet. I love Thol and Tar...they're my good friends. Maybe they don't always post on topic. But nobody posts on topic all the time. And they DO have thoughtful opinions about things, and if you just took the time to listen to them perhaps you'd realise that they and people you consider to be "like them" have things to say, opinions, things of great value in their minds, and they are worthy of great respect.
They are good people, and I care about them! And I consider them respectable members because I RESPECT THEM. Despite everything YOU think is wrong with them and their posts, I respect them. Because they're good people.
I've never seen them do anything half so cruel as what you've done in this thread. (In earnest of course, Tar IS the Dark Queen, but that's an RP thing...;)) Anyway, I respect them FAR more than I respect you at the moment.
The things you have said are hurtful and cruel. And they are unnecessary.

You can support the removal or the retention of post counts without itemizing members and slagging them off in a public forum, can't you?

You know, I AM in the C9, I HAVE been trying to make this forum a better place for everyone here. I've been trying to help represent the members and their needs to WM, and I've been trying to do this swiftly, and efficiently, and I've been trying to make myself as a C9 member available to the forum members most hours of the day in case they need anything. The C9 is working pretty hard for you guys, not as hard as the mods, but we're constantly having discussions and polling eachother about what would be best for the forum and its members. We're trying to help you. And one of the ways I wanted to help was to remove the post count.
So many people are unhappy about it. I know a lot of people want the post count, but no harm comes from removing it really, though I've known people on the verge of lashing out at members if they heard them mention another word about their post count...
I was trying to help out everyone. If people still wanted to know their post count they could always do a "search for all posts by this user" in their profile screen and they could get a number. So knowing how many posts you had wouldn't be impossible.
But I thought removing them from each post would help to lessen the focus some people have on it, and help to smooth out member relations between those who love their posts counts and talk about them all the time, and those who hate it when people talk about them all the time.


I thought this would help. Apparently it won't help anything but show me just HOW people really think of me. I nearly left a few months back as I said. Because I thought people thought of me just as you do. And my forum friends convinced me that nobody thought that, that I should stay, and that even if they DID think that I could prove them wrong just by virtue of the fact that they couldn't ignore the fact that I was now posting MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY.

Unfortunately this is not the case.
I feel that I should stay on just long enough to see my replacement placed on the C9, and then take my leave.
I'm tired of fighting this uphill battle to prove to pig-headed people that I'm not this person they think I am.

It probably shouldn't matter to me, but it does. I chose Nienna as my personal theme as of late because she and I have something in common: We cry about everything.
She cries for the pain of the world, not for herself, but I don't have that strength and I'm just as likely to cry for personal injuries as I am about the death of the Swedish foreign minister (which I can tell you is very likely)

When I read Dain's post Snaga was sitting next to me...and I tried to explain to him with tears in my eyes that those posts he mentioned WERE on topic...but I couldn't even finish my sentence.
I went upstairs and just cried for a good 10 minutes before I came back down to post this.

So yeah, Dain, maybe you should think about what you say before you say it. I may be blunt and honest, but that doesn't mean I don't have feelings.


I support you and this forum in their quest to help make it a better place for everyone, and I support the removal of post counts and have cast my vote in that direction to help support you.
I wish you all the best, but I really don't feel that I can stay on here with such an unwelcome atmosphere. I think my sentiments on the "homosexuality" thread in the GoR has made me sufficiently unopopular, not to mention my "spamming", that it won't just be Dain who will be happy to see me go.
So to the mods who've dogged me and slagged me off behind my back for so long: Cheers. You have what you want now.
And to the members who share similar opinions: There you go. I'm off now.

I wish you all the best, and hope that you continue to prosper and share in a healthy environment here on TTF. Cheers, everyone.
It's been really good to know you, debate with you, and make friends with you.

[Talierin]

So we should cater to a few people who like to watch their count go up and up and up? That isn't fair either, to the MAJORITY

[Wonko The Sane]

Originally posted by Nóm
Was C9 not going to get our opinions before deciding what is best for us?

How many other things have you guys decided for us without us being aware the thing was being decided, or having heard our opinions on the matter?

Or, maybe I'm just wrong about what C9 is.


About the poll here, I voted to get rid of them! But what do I know.

Of course not Nom!! We weren't deciding without the members! NO way!

I posted in their to tentatively get a feel for the C9's opinion before I posted just the thread you've beat me to posting!

I wanted to get C9 support because I felt it would go over better with members if it had more backing...but ultimately we would NEVER have deleted the post counts without the member's approval!

We know what our purpose was. I was just trying to get a feel for responses and the like before I took what I knew would be a controversial topic to the rest of the forum.

[Wonko The Sane]

Originally posted by Dáin Ironfoot I
Hello Wonks. I wont even try to argue... but I do know that I said what I wanted to say, and I meant every bit of it. Notice I did it without using profanities. Profanities and anger is what I think destroy this wonderful place.

I posted in a constructive manner, its up to each individual on how to take it.

That wasn't me Dain, that was Snaga. And it's NOT constructive to slag off members, and make them cry.

I was unsure about whether or not I was doing any good for the forum before and whether or not people actually considered me a worthwhile member.

I have my answer now. Thanks for that. :rolleyes:


Nom, I wanted to add my thanks for your support. We did try to make a few "honest" comments about a few of the mods the other day and we were censored...I don't know how Dain can get away with this.
Since I give up and I'm leaving I don't feel bad about saying that I've known for quite a while that Tal has hated me from the start and said unkind things about me and my posting habits, the fact that she deleted the thread you and I were exchanging "honest" opinions on, but thinks Dain should be commended for HIS honesty shows this to be true.
Tal, I LIKE you, quite a bit for the most part. I think you're funny and friendly and I admire what you do for the forum. I've tried really hard to show you that I'm not the member I was the first few months after I joined TTF. I've tried to earn your respect by showing you that I am a serious poster now.
But you've won your battle, ok? I never had anything against you and it always hurt me deeply that you didn't like me.
But it's a moot point now.
I hope the forum can breathe a sigh of relief without me around.

[Celebthôl]

That is really below the belt Daín, i can't believe this!

NOW YOU SEE WHY THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

One of the forums best members is now gone!!

[Aerin]

I think there need to be some people sent to the "time-out corner"....

This is utterly ridiculous. Everyone's up in arms because of .. what? The post count for each individual being readily available? Honestly! Is it such a big deal? It's just a number, for heaven's sake. Get over it!

A while ago (I don't remember how long), Webmaster turned the post count off.... and guess what! Spamming went down, and there wasn't really a problem with it. You could still find your post count; granted, it took a few more clicks on your mouse than it does now, but it was still there. It wasn't a problem anymore.

Wonko - as for your "censored" remarks about the moderators - haven't you read what Webmaster or Beorn has posted? Any of it at all? If there is a problem with the mods, you are to either PM them directly, or to PM Webmaster. Wow. Problem solved right there, without any fuss and nobody getting whacked out over it. :rolleyes:

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Aerin
Wonko - as for your "censored" remarks about the moderators - haven't you read what Webmaster or Beorn has posted? Any of it at all? If there is a problem with the mods, you are to either PM them directly, or to PM Webmaster. Wow. Problem solved right there, without any fuss and nobody getting whacked out over it. :rolleyes:

I dont think she cares, she's leaving. . .

[Talierin]

If you read my post where I commended dain, notice I said: "I think that maybe you shouldn't be offended... Dain was just being honest. Don't take me wrong, it was a very blunt honesty, but he does bring up some things that maybe those in question need to fix, as well as the rest of us, but please, let's not start a fight on this thread, k?"

I wasn't trying to say that JUST those he said something about should fix it, I included everyone. I know that I myself have prolly spammed at one time or another, or done something I shouldn't have. If Dain had gone through my posts I"m sure he would have found something offensive to me too. I was *trying* to stop a fight breaking out on this thread, but I guess I messed that up, again.

And the reason I deleted that thread was because if I recall, your post on it was wondering why it *hadn't* been deleted earlier, so I decided just to delete it then. But I guess that was the wrong decision, again. I was pissed at you because you went and got Aule to make a whole thread about me deleting it, instead of just pming and asking yourself why I had deleted it. *I* thought that was really unfair.
Yes, you have made some valuable contributings lately, and I have seen that, but then again I've also seen the flip side of that coin, with a lot of threads taken off-topic.
No, I"m not going to defend myself on things I've said/thought, because there's no point in that. You and I just clash, I guess, and I don't think there's anything that can be done to fix it. But it's your choice to leave over my opinion, a girl who you've never met, who's 2,000 miles from you.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

I suggest a mod close this thread if it turns into an argument. I certainly wont argue with an overly emotional and angry person who cries because I decided not to argue with her. Never said she wasnt worthy of my respect, just not a high post count.

But... I'll restrict any comments to PMs, as it should be. *Is trying to set an example here*

So, guys, I think it is obvious that the competition for post counts has taken its toll. All the more reason to abolish them.

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Dáin Ironfoot I
I suggest a mod close this thread if it turns into an argument. I certainly wont argue with an overly emotional and angry person who cries because I decided not to argue with her. Never said she wasnt worthy of my respect, just not a high post count.


That is really wrong!!! :mad: :mad:


But... I'll restrict any comments to PMs, as it should be. *Is trying to set an example here*


You have failed! seems like your opinons are perfectly clear! You have set no good examples here! :mad: :mad:

[Nóm]

I dont think she cares, she's leaving. . .

:(... Well if she does I hope she comes back soon, having decided to hell with the fact some people said negative things about her because there is much good that could be said of Wonko instead. I have said such things elsewhere, and would say it again if not for that it would sound very corny and probably insencere right now. I know this is sounds sexist, but what the heck, it is the truth: Wonko is my favorite lady at TTF, and I'm sorry over this stuff, and hoping she decides to stay.

*weeps off to another corner of the forum*

[Elendil3119]

Originally posted by Aerin
I think there need to be some people sent to the "time-out corner"....

This is utterly ridiculous. Everyone's up in arms because of .. what? The post count for each individual being readily available? Honestly! Is it such a big deal? It's just a number, for heaven's sake. Get over it!

A while ago (I don't remember how long), Webmaster turned the post count off.... and guess what! Spamming went down, and there wasn't really a problem with it. You could still find your post count; granted, it took a few more clicks on your mouse than it does now, but it was still there. It wasn't a problem anymore.

Wonko - as for your "censored" remarks about the moderators - haven't you read what Webmaster or Beorn has posted? Any of it at all? If there is a problem with the mods, you are to either PM them directly, or to PM Webmaster. Wow. Problem solved right there, without any fuss and nobody getting whacked out over it. :rolleyes:
My thoughts exactly! Everybody's getting worked up over the post-counter on an INTERNET forum which was created to discuss a bunch of BOOKS (no offense, I love Tolkien as much as the rest of you). Let's just all calm down here and try to sort things out.

[Nóm]

Unfortunately it is not enough to say 'do not be offended' or 'It was not ment to offend'.

When a person's feelings are hurt by something that's that. A natural reaction that can not be controlled. Sympathy of that fact might be just the thing needed to 'sort things out'.

[Snaga]

Dain it ill behoves you to NOW start posing as some kind of peace-maker... especially as you include ANOTHER insult in the same post!!

It YOU that has turned what could have been a constructive discussion of the merits or otherwise into a slanging match about the merits of individual members. It is YOU that made it personal. If there are profanities and anger it YOU that provoked them.

A quick scan of your posts show you are in no position to give out lectures on so-called quality posts. You spam, you take threads off-topic. Your knowledge of Tolkien is meagre... you have to ask who the 'Oath-breakers' were in your one serious post that I could find in a scan. You may believe yourself a role-model for others, but you don't measure up to the standards you set for others. Your attitude is so thoroughly hypocritical it is astonishing.

You want to define a 'good member' in certain terms... that apparently Grond, Nenya and Nom fit and Wonks, Thol and Tar do not. I have to say, you have clearly not looked at all carefully but have merely posted your personal prejudices about other members. Its contemptible in itself, but even more despicable is to believe that just because you add 'Don't take this personally' that it is suddenly alright.

More fundamentally, if you have not yet realised that the forum needs all kinds of members to survive and flourish, wake up and smell the coffee. It takes all sorts to make a world. If TTF is a community, lets not make it one where some people are deemed better than others, where some people are 'insiders' and others are not. I am personally of the opinion that a successful thread is one with lots of posts, like a thriving conversation, not one with a few on-topic that then dies in its own sterility. Every group needs both the serious-minded and the light-hearted. Without fun, without humour, stress levels rise to the point where people can't deal with it any more. And it seems to me that the attempts to police out the fun in the forum, or at least the attempts to tell people that light-hearted posts should be frowned upon or not respected are doing us no good at all.

By all means lose the post count. To me, its no big deal. Because post count tells you nothing important about a member. Neither does posting in the right forum in the right way tell you much. Being able to treat people with sensitivity... that matters. And on that score, you Dain have shown yourself with much to learn.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

I won't argue on this thread. Some people may think that cowardly, or wrong, but I don't care. It's not that I'm afraid of losing an argument, or whatever, I don't want to make the situation worse. Is that so wrong?

But I will post something in defense of myself. I don't recall saying I did not spam or go off topic, but in my opinion a person with a high post count (who would be possibly be looked up to for that reason) should post on topic and not spam. Some people like Nom, Nenya, Grond, and Lantarion got their count through hard work, and without spamming or going off topic, which the other six have done (some more than others, and some more recently than others). I don't think it very fair that people with these high post counts get all the glory by posting much nonsense, and this overshadows those people who post for quality and not quantity. Of course there are good posts by these people, I only highlighted examples to get my point across. There are much more examples as well, but there is only so much room in a post.

So what if my Tolkienology isnt the best? I'm not looked up to, I am not those with these insane amount of posts. The only reason I even get recognized is for being brave and posting what I feel. I dont remember ever talking with Thol or Tar, so I dont see how I could have personal prejudice against them. Wonks, however, I did my best to outline some suggestions for you but you went all ballistic. I thank people like Thol that took it constructively and with a pinch of salt.

If you are going to cry because I said your posts went off topic...When I read Dain's post Snaga was sitting next to me...and I tried to explain to him with tears in my eyes that those posts he mentioned WERE on topic...but I couldn't even finish my sentence.
I went upstairs and just cried for a good 10 minutes before I came back down to post this.I don't understand that. The posts were off topic, but you cannot see that, so I decided to point it out.

When I tried to PM Wonks or Snaga so we could at least discuss it, and move an argument away from the thread I was told to "f off" by a 30 year old. I'm 16... and I'm trying to settle the dispute that was started over a trivial thing. Makes you wonder who really is more mature.

I love TTF because of the blend of lightheartedness with the bare facts, but I don't like to see good threads go to waste and go off topic, as many have done. There is a place for the silly stuff, but those places are being abused for post counts. That's about it. And I don't feel sorry for Wonko if she is going to leave because she blew my comment out of proportion, and went off on a tangent on how everyone hates her: I hope the forum can breathe a sigh of relief without me around.
Don't know why you would think that, but if you keep up this childness they certainly will.

[HLGStrider]

I think it is obvious why this subject always gets heated. The moment it is started someone thinks of someone to accuse of spamming, as an example. . .and even if they aren't named, the people with the high counts automatically assume they are the ones being named. . .

Actually, I found this thread because Eriol mentioned he was sorry Dain said something rude about me or something like that. I didn't find Dain's comments about me particularly all that rude. . .they were almost a backward compliment, but I like being talked about.

They tell you nothing about the person who is posting and are not a reliable guide to a person's dedication to the forum (apart from Elgee of course).

Thanks for the exception, Eld.

I know after my count got high then all the sudden people started to listen to my opinion, but back when I had 200 posts no one even heard me

Actually, I find the opposite with me. When I first got a high count one or two new people pm'ed me asking questions and I thought it was because of the count (and posted that as an arguement for keeping it). I later realized they'd chosen me because my profile states I'm a Christian and I make many posts as one, very openly, more openly than a lot of the other members, and they were Christians too and felt more at home with me.

Another member recently pm'ed me because she likes cats also and wanted to start a conversation. She's been pming me for aobut four months, and I think she treats me with absolutely no respect. I think she actually has contempt for me. I have no idea why she likes pming me.

I can name a few other members who dislike me, disrespect me, etc. Post count or no post count. My popularity is based on being very harmless and very "cute" while still having opinions popular with the majority on site.

but I have to say to me it would make more sense to count all or none

I think it makes sense to have them off in S and B. You can't really set a standard for S and B, so it can't be controled. The others you can set a standard for.

I think I have spammed before. . .mostly in the "Most Romantic Couple thread." That was because I got into an almost pm'y situation with Tar. It was a mistake, and I'd really like to see that thread cleaned up.

And if people do want to make a competion out of it, let them!

I do this more than I should, but it's because it is part of my personality. I didn't start a thread for five thousand because I felt it was getting old.


Very worthy of respect, I cant find a single 'spam' in the search. Good job! All hail Lanty!

You didn't try very hard. ;)

Yes. This is annoying to me, but I suppose it shouldn't bother me. But, it is really a case of a few people causing us to question the Count for everyone. I do not know why people do this... I suppose it is not really harming anything, but is just irritating. At least that is how it is to me.

I think youd have to go back a long time to find the source. I remember there being a post count party, possibly the first, for Grond when he passed 2,000. It was a celebration of a great member. However, it started something. Everybody was jealous. "HEY! I WANT A PARTY TOO!" Grond's party was sweet and complimentary, and the new thing to do. The fad caught on. It went too far. I haven't seen a thread about post counts in awhile. I think I started one for when Ana passed me, but that was my last (or did I start one when I got near 5,000?)

If the majority of people hate it, we can always turn them back on.

But how will we know if they hate it?

Stuff and Bother is not labelled Elgee's Decision Forum, so lets keep those crazy polls outta there (or at least reduce the sheer number of them)

I wouldn't mind this. I just love starting those things. I thought it was ok because they are stuff and bother. I don't mind if they get deleted when they get old.


Pure Elgee material. I doubt I have room to post the spam in the bars, and the Green Dragon, and etc. but that is where most of her posts come from. Its sad to see a person with over 5000 posts in which most of it is like the above quote. Bleh.

But that quote ISN'T part of my five thousand. It's in stuff and bother. I don't post in Green Dragon. You're very wrong, Dain. Check your research again.

I don't post in the book forum as much as I should, but most of it is NOT stuff and bother and none is Green Dragon (I post about 15 percent in S and B).

So she's pretty. She's friendly. She's cute. Meow. The thing with Elgee is that her posts (outside of S and B) are actually with meaning.

Pretty. . .yes
Friendly. . .undeniabley. . .
Cute. . .oh, yes, yes, yes. ..

MEOW! See, I said it was a backwards compliment.

Senseless posts lead to spamming. Spamming leads to hate.

Why dont' we have senseless posts lead to deletion, deletion leads to warning points, warning points lead to banning?

So we should cater to a few people who like to watch their count go up and up and up? That isn't fair either, to the MAJORITY

I dont' really. . .though I do like my position as number one. I don't know why, but it is about my only real accomplishment in life. . .I need to get out more.

That wasn't me Dain, that was Snaga.

Lovers are one. . .just a romantic thought that struck me, Wonks. . .you should tell that to Snags.

A while ago (I don't remember how long), Webmaster turned the post count off.... and guess what! Spamming went down, and there wasn't really a problem with it.

The only time I remember this happening it happened for less than two days. . .or was it before my time? I don't think two days is a very good sample.

Let them stay. It's fun and I never post to raise my count. . .people do to get avatars, but that's it.

[Lúthien Séregon]

This argument is just ridiculous, there was no need to even get rid of them at all, and now look at what's happened! This is more of a spam conversation than most I've seen - it's serving no purpose, it's just offending people and it's an unnecessary argument. This is more likely to be damaging to TTF than anything else. :(

The Post Count IS just an number, but even so what purpose does it serve to get rid it of it, if people with higher post counts DO NOT post just to increase their posts, and actually do have serious posts and conversations!? Most of that was really unwarranted, Dain - you may say it's just brutal honesty, but you ignore the fact that hardly any of that was spam ( if any at all ) with purpose only to increase PC.

Actually, I find the opposite with me. When I first got a high count one or two new people pm'ed me asking questions and I thought it was because of the count (and posted that as an arguement for keeping it). I later realized they'd chosen me because my profile states I'm a Christian and I make many posts as one, very openly, more openly than a lot of the other members, and they were Christians too and felt more at home with me.

I agree, I would've thought that popularity would rarely be based on just post count. It IS quality that matters, and as far as I can see, the majority of those with higher posts do post more quality than off-topic or meaningless posts.

[Beorn]

Dain: we spoke on MSN...

Elendil: What problems are these? The complaints announcement was regarding complaints about mods.


I used to be all for the post counter being gone, but now there seems to be a bit less of "I have 389723498273490247 posts and you only have 389723498273490246"....so either way I don't care. Heck, the closest I can guess on my post count is around 1600.

In regards to closing this thread: It's the first thing I thought of when seeing 82 replies on a two day old thread. Quick discussions leave no time for thought, and self reflection. MANY people need to sit back and consider how other people see them. I would like to close this thread for a few hours (two or three) so people can consider that....