Social Debate: Who is Hotter? Fingon or Finduilas? [Judging]

[Aulë]

Well I said that I would select the greatest panel of judges seen in this forum, and I have not broken my promise. :D
BEHOLD! The 13 wonderful judges for this debate!!!
-Baragund - Fingon
-Eriol - Fingon
-Gothmog - Fingon
-HLGStrider - Fingon
-Idril - Fingon
-Ithrynluin - Fingon
-Lhunithiliel - Finduilas
-Maedhros - Finduilas
-Manveru - Finduilas
-Snaga - Fingon

Fingon 7 - 3 Finduilas

(Yes- that's right. 10 judges!!! :D I like taking things to the extreme...)

The debate is here: http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13150
LET THE JUDGING BEGIN :D

[baragund]

I am a pygmy standing in the company of giants! Nevertheless, I will do my best to pass a fair and balanced judgement in this most critical debate.

[Lhunithiliel]

Ha! 13 judges! ... BUT!!!! ONLY 5 women among them!
I wonder which he-judge will admit another man as being hot!? ... Oh! But it can happen of course! :p :D

Anyway... before I post my opinion, I'd like to ask a quesiton: ummmm..... is the debate going to continue? 'Cause I couldn't find any conclusion on behalf of both sides... and it all seems a bit...unfinished :rolleyes: :confused:

[Nóm]

Hey 13 is an unlucky number, therefore Aulë the host should be the 14th... I have already asked Gandalf to put a mark on his door.

Well guys, I'm surpised some of you agree'd to judge this informative and well reseached debate... but don't take it more seriously than it deserves... I hope you'll have some fun where you can.

We have made our closing posts now (darn Beleg for brining in good points in closing that I can not reply to!)... But nevermind gender Lhun! I see a bigger problem here... ithrynluin is anti-Noldor and Fingon has 75% Noldor blood whereas Finduilas has no more than 33%.

Finarfin - 1/2

Angrod - 1/4

Orodreth - (even if Angrod's wife was all Noldor) can have no more than 10/16ths Noldor blood... her mother was a Sinda so Finduilas was at the very most a little less than 1/3 Noldor.

Should Gothmog be asked to judge about an elf that he killed? Rather disrespectful to Fingon! But Turgon and Maedhros also had personal dealings with Fingon... so they may have some insight into the topic.


PS Aule will you ever learn:

c h r y s o p h -->a<-- l a x :p

[Beleg]

Anyway... before I post my opinion, I'd like to ask a quesiton: ummmm..... is the debate going to continue? 'Cause I couldn't find any conclusion on behalf of both sides... and it all seems a bit...unfinished

That problem is now settled. ;)


Hey 13 is an unlucky number, therefore Aulë the host should be the 14th... I have already asked Gandalf to put a mark on his door.

Well guys, I'm surpised some of you agree'd to judge this informative and well reseached debate... but don't take it more seriously than it deserves... I hope you'll have some fun where you can.

We have made our closing posts now (darn Beleg for brining in good points in closing that I can not reply to!)... But nevermind gender Lhun! I see a bigger problem here... ithrynluin is anti-Noldor and Fingon has 75% Noldor blood whereas Finduilas has no more than 33%.

Finarfin - 1/2

Angrod - 1/4

Orodreth - (even if Angrod's wife was all Noldor) can have no more than 10/16ths Noldor blood... her mother was a Sinda so Finduilas was at the very most a little less than 1/3 Noldor.

Should Gothmog be asked to judge about an elf that he killed? Rather disrespectful to Fingon! But Turgon and Maedhros also had personal dealings with Fingon... so they may have some insight into the topic.


PS Aule will you ever learn:

c h r y s o p h -->a<-- l a x

Sorry mods but ROTFLMAO!



:D :D

[Aulë]

Originally posted by Nóm
PS Aule will you ever learn:

c h r y s o p h -->a<-- l a x :p

Bah!
I only spell it the way Tolkien spelt it! :p ;)

(I think I'll just resort to 'Chrys' now :) )


btw, if this thing somehow ends in a tie (:rolleyes: ), I have a back-up judge arranged. :D

[HLGStrider]

I voted. ..other people vote now. . .good bye. . .

[Snaga]

Thank you for being invited to play the role of 'Bombur', the 13th and unlucky judge. Unlike Baragund I will make no attempt to be fair or impartial in judging this debate. In fact I will vote on the basis of personal prejudices and irrational desires.

I am deeply disappointed by the positive tone of this debate. I was hoping for much more insults, much less positive discussion about the supposed good qualities of elves. Really.... I am sickened by the whole thing.

Unfortunately, I am not able to vote for you to both lose, and a draw is for wimps.

I have decided to vote for Nom because

[Lhunithiliel]

Oh, boys! You have made such a sl** out of Finduilas! :p :D :D :D... But wasn't that the purpose of this...hmmm.... debate.... :p

So...YOU WIN as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry, Nom! :( You described a true King/prince/chavallier/hero ... whatever but indeed we have no information of him to be the "babes' sweetheart". Too stern and dedicated to the high causes of his people, his nation, ME and the world.

BTW, in a way I see this as the reason why the most valiant heroes in ME never married....But I might be wrong of course! What do I know about men?! ;) :D

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Nóm
But nevermind gender Lhun! I see a bigger problem here... ithrynluin is anti-Noldor and Fingon has 75% Noldor blood whereas Finduilas has no more than 33%.


I am not anti Noldor!

I am anti-overly-swooning-over-the-Noldor-and-overly-praising-them-while-not-giving-the-other-Elves-their-due-credit.

Ha!

[HLGStrider]

Aule says I have to go into depth, but I'm going to wait for the rest of you or a lot of you to do it first because I'm new to this.;)

[Ithrynluin]

For me, the word hot signifies that someone is physically attractive, without necessarily looking deeper to discover what that person is like or if the person's characteristics are appealing to you. So what to do?

Nom suggests:

I am saying we should evaluate each elf in every area possable, rather than for example, a bunch of drooling.

This sounds more like 'who is the greater elf' but

I should tell why women in general (not necessarily me) should find Fingon more attractive than men in general are likely to find Finduilas.

I think this should be a good enough standard. :)

Good argument by Nóm:

In addition to this he was unwed. Unwed high king of the Noldor who carries around a harp and sings, a mighty and valiant warrior with great values. What woman doesn't find attractive a man who is proud and honourable,can be so bold and determined, and is as strong as they come but also gentle, a musician and singer too, an artist!


Then this:

Not all of them were as hot as Fingon, nay none of them were! First off... his brother Turgon can not have been as apealing since he already had a love and though she died, these are elves and their unions last until the ending of the world... so he was taken!

But why should that make him less appealing? Because after his wife's death noone can secretly hope 'Oh maybe he'll meet me one day and fall in love. There is still hope' anymore? :D

little young Finduilas, her heart turned to Turin an over-proud man.

Perhaps it was not her fault that she fell in love with him? Perhaps she got enmeshed into Morgoth's curse?

I generally don't agree with Beleg's train of thought and with most of his arguments.

I vote for Fingon being hotter. ;) Or at least for Nóm presenting her arguments in a more convincing manner. ;)

[baragund]

I'm with Ithy on this spectacle of a debate. Nom presented Fingon as a total package. Not only is he a hunk but he is also talented, rich and smart and, most of all, a musician! He's the First Age version of Eddie Van Halen!!

A babe magnet in the truest sense and uber hot!

Beleg and Inder, on the other hand, present Finduilas more as 'swimsuit model' hot. A real guy magnet but beyond that, not a whole lot going on. Probably could grace the pages of a Victoria's Secret catalog but that's about it.

I vote for Fingon.

[Maedhros]

The debate was pretty even, in a sense anyway. I think that Nóm made some good points but her treating of the first prince of the Ñoldor undid her in my eyes.

I have a thing for tall, blonde woman too.;)

Finduilas.

[Manveru]

Finduilas is hot!!!!!!! *howls like a wolf, his jaw drops and his tongue rolls over on the floor* (sorry for that... that was a "wild" part of my manly nature;)--it's not easy to quiet it down--which is a good sign that everything is alright with me:D). Wait a sec... I can't vote in this state of mind (I wouldn't be much objective a judge;))... *after a few deep breaths* OK, I'm cool now (at least for a few minutes to be able to write this post;)).

It seems to me that both sexes (men and women) understand the term "being hot" in a slightly different way (at least their representatives in this fine debate--Nom, Beleg and Inder).
Originally posted by Nom:
I think most of this will be based on personalities and status. This must be a factor in hottness.
Whereas boys' explanation of the term is:
Originally posted by Beleg:
First of all I take that the meaning of the word hot discussed here is Sexually Attractive.

Dictionary.com puts up the meaning of 'Hot' as: Sexually excited or exciting.
Boys started with arguments "pleasant for the eye", though in the end they 'dug' a little deeper into this sexy-looking-honey-blonde (oops... I guess my 'cool time' is passing... I have to hurry up;)) Elven maiden (excellent closing post--that was a good move, boys).
Now Nom... IMHO, she described Fingon very well, all his merits and stuff (like "long dark hair with golden braids..."), but... he seems to me too perfect to be true (I completely second what Lhun said)...

So...

I voted for Finduilas.

[Nóm]

I'm sorry but this is not right! This is not fair to me! Beleg and Inder waited until the last minute! I'm sorry but some of those judgements are not good enough! Please explain better, judges! My team is OBVOUSLY more organized!! My side was A LOT harder to argue! A poll? I hope you are NOT going to count this as the 14th judge to break the tie, Aule!... this should not be counting as a judge! Some of the first posts were made to influence the judges, this is NOT fair! And isn't it against the rules to have... EXCUSE ME, but 13 judges? Only the first 4 should count, those and AULE's! And before anyone gets out of hand :rolleyes:... I am NOT saying those because it would give my team the victory!

I DEMAND justice!!!

[Idril]

Does this mean you don't want my vote Nom?

I voted for Nom as I felt she presented a better all round picture and Fingon was definitely hotter (or a better catch:D).

[Manveru]

Originally posted by Nóm
A poll? I hope you are NOT going to count this as the 14th judge to break the tie, Aule!... this should not be counting as a judge!
What's wrong with the poll? It seems to me you're winning, Nom, aren't you? So what's the problem?;)

[Nóm]

Oh, you know... just keeping with the spirit of the debate tournament. ;)

But I do want to make a serious comment for a moment. Manveru, I think we were all using the same definition of 'hot', just different criteria.

As for status, I had to use this as a tactic. A lot of women find men of high status to be attractive (I do not, as power hungry and super wealthy people disgust me... but many do) so Fingon being High King... had to use it. So, you can see how it was to my benefit.

But in truth, I do think Fingon was the 'hot' one of the bunch (most were married - and not only what you mentioned ithrynluin, but a man who loves another woman is not attractive but a thorn in the heart)... of course he has nothing over Gildor Inglorion. :)

Maedhros... just curious why you call Maedhros the first prince of the Noldor. Shouldn't that have been Feanor?

[Gothmog]

In reading through this debate I noticed that Nóm right from the start worked at making her point and continued to strengthen her case with each post. Each post contained descriptions that in her view made Fingon attractive to women. She also pointed out that Finduilas had left Gwindor in favour of Turin, not such an attractive point.

Inderjit S Seems to have had some difficulty in remembering which side he was supposed to be debating. :) However, he did seem to enjoy it.

As for Beleg, He did make some attempts to put forward Finduilas' side. But to start with he did not really get involved in the debate fully. It was not until his final post that he gave full thought to the case for Finduilas.

Nóm had clearly shown why Fingon should be considered "Hotter" from the first post. Beleg and Inder. did little to go against this until Beleg's final post. This however, was sufficient to cancel out all of the arguments prior to it so that all was equal. However, in terms of debating style Nóm started in right from the beginning in building up her case while her opponents waited until there was no chance of an answer before giving their arguments. I would have liked to see just how Nóm would have answered but it is too late now.

So with the arguments of equal merit I have to go with debating style and skill.

I vote for Nóm.

[Maedhros]

Maedhros... just curious why you call Maedhros the first prince of the Noldor. Shouldn't that have been Feanor?
Because as impossible as it seems, I made a mistake. :eek:
I meant first son of the first prince of the Noldor.;)

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Maedhros
Because as impossible as it seems, I made a mistake. :eek:


Okay. I made one too... in the debate... a pretty big one... that Inderjit did not catch it is boggling my mind. I wonder if you caught it, Maedhros? Your Noldor fandom is as much as mine! Anyhow, we'll see if anyone catches it in judging... it's actually a pretty easy one... once you catch it you will beat yourself up for missing it. ;)

[Eriol]

Gothmog pretty much summed up my own feelings. Nóm debated better. I should not let myself be swayed by the fact that no one could ever convince me that Fingon is hotter than Finduilas ;). Nóm failed to do that, of course, but that is my own fault, male pig that I am.

Nóm gets my vote. And apparently she gets Inderjit's vote too :D.

[HLGStrider]

Well, the fact that Inj. didn't know what side he was on certainly helped. . .

So I voted for Nom. For one thing, I think the attack led of Fingon was a bit weak. . .if sexual orientation jokes are the best thing you can come up with against an elf, you're in trouble. I mean, is there an elf you can't attack with sexual orientation jokes?

And Nom dared to be deep! She wins.