Oh wow...

[Lúthien Séregon]

The Tolkien Forum is Numenor!! :eek: :eek:

Seriously!

This forum began great, the best forum to be found on the Internet. Tolkien knowledge and lore was at its fullest. Then people began to strive for changes beyond what TTF should be, and dissention gradually grew. As more changes were made to try and heighten its success, so did the greatness of TTF lessen. :(

Tolkien knowledge and discussion is less, and people are reeling over the loss of subjects that had nothing to do with the original success.

The result is, the faithful are leaving and the forum seems to have declined.

( Now let’s just hope we don’t attack the land of the mods, and be cast down into the sea of the Internet. :rolleyes: )

Is our path to be different from Numenor?
I sure hope so.

[BlackCaptain]

"Then people began to strive for power, and dissention gradually grew"

I dont think anyone is striving for power, we're just crossing some boundaries that shouldn't be crossed on a TOLKIEN forum...

The rest seems like an OK analogy...

[Lúthien Séregon]

Well, maybe not so much striving for power, but striving for changes beyond what TTF should be, as you said. I probably should change that.

[BlackCaptain]

Yeah... That makes ALOT more sense. Nice job puttin it into better words. Perfect;) :)

[Nóm]

I think we may be okay.

I've thought a lot lately about how we might cause more people to discuss the books more often, and concluded the best thing is just to be encouraging when the opportunity arises.

I have a hard time seeing how people would be too upset about the ban on those topics. In truth I can not relate to them, so do not know what could be said to help that situation.

This site had been slipping away and sadly most people did not seem to notice until there was an explosion. I think those of us who noticed were all posting in the book forums. It didn't do these people any good to notice because they were already on the path that needed to be taken by others if TTF was to become more about book discussion. Indeed they were the few who kept this place somewhere were the books could be discussed at all. It was those who are not concerned with posting about the books who needed to see what was happening to TTF, but I suspect most of them didn't see it. I think everyone knows now, so perhaps a few, and every bit does count, will turn more to the book forums.

I am not sure what to think about the ban. I would not have suggested it, but now that it has happened, the more I think about it, I start to think it was probably the only way. Initialy I wanted the stuff off of the main page, but in truth even if these topics continued in Stuff and Bother, I think they would have been no less active and the book forums no more active. These topics being forbidden just might make this all more about Tolkien. The topics were too hot and a big threat to the book forums as I saw it.

I know tons of people here at TTF love the books, but why don't they post more about it? I wish I knew the answer to that question, as there might be something some of us could do about it. All I can say to everyone is that they are wanted by those of us who do post in the book forums a lot. They might not know as much about Middle-earth as some few people do, but that does not matter any further than that it means they can get some questions answered. There is more to disucssing Middle-earth than gaining knowledge, there is the sharing of points of view and speculating on the things unknown. And every reader can have equal part in all of this. A piece of information I post from a book you have not read may cause you to come up with a wonderful idea. That is what it is really about to me... that is the purpose of posting at the forum... to share ideas and ask questions.

To value knowledge over enthusiasm, imagination, and curiousity is folly.

[Celebthôl]

Hehe, i distinctly remember having this convo with you yesturday :D but i agree, it is collapsing in on itself :(.

I think that instead of just refuring a topic to an older one where it has been discussed before, we should rediscuss it anew so the newer members can bring in fresh light on it all. *shrugs* just my opinion. . .

[Arvedui]

The more I think about it, the more I begin to think that thôl is right.
Maybe we have been too efficient in trying to keep this place a cozy and smooth-run operation.
Maybe we have scared people from asking questions by being to quick to provide links to older threads related to the new question.
Come to think of it: that is not a very hospital welcome, is it? In fact, it might lead to TTF being reduced from a place of debates and discussion, to an advanced Tolkien-encyclopedia.

Thôl, I'll further your thoughts to some other people I know around here.

[Maedhros]

I know tons of people here at TTF love the books, but why don't they post more about it? I wish I knew the answer to that question, as there might be something some of us could do about it. All I can say to everyone is that they are wanted by those of us who do post in the book forums a lot. They might not know as much about Middle-earth as some few people do, but that does not matter any further than that it means they can get some questions answered. There is more to disucssing Middle-earth than gaining knowledge, there is the sharing of points of view and speculating on the things unknown. And every reader can have equal part in all of this. A piece of information I post from a book you have not read may cause you to come up with a wonderful idea. That is what it is really about to me... that is the purpose of posting at the forum... to share ideas and ask questions.
It depends on the individual really. With some of them the fascination of posting may have gone or they have become more busy with real life.
There are those of us, (like me) who feel that certain members have been shall we say: discarded for a lack of a better word. For me personally, I knew that I couldn't keep posting as I usually did in the book forums because I felt that some mods who I had a high degree of respect left because of Admin differences. I personally felt bad that these people who made a great effort into making that place great, were treated that way. It makes me wonder if such a place deserves that effort. It's not that I won't post there, it is just that I will post less.
There is also the fact that there are things that would be better than posting, like trying to make a more complete Silmarillion if you will.:)
In fact, it might lead to TTF being reduced from a place of debates and discussion, to an advanced Tolkien-encyclopedia.
Now, this is funny.

[Arvedui]

LOL!
I see that now!:p
Maybe I should have said: a weird Tolkien-encyclopedia?

Anyway, I think you understand what I am trying to express using my limited knowledge of English:D

[Ancalagon]

Arvedui, your English is superior to mine...as is most of those who do not hail from the British Isles:)

[Lhunithiliel]

Say... this is ...what... the 4-th or the 5-th thread on TTF about the lay-out of the forum?

Swell!

I'd say that as long as we keep being hot on this topic, Tolkien-related discussions will eventually die for good!

Keep it going! :p

[Adrastea]

I know tons of people here at TTF love the books, but why don't they post more about it? I wish I knew the answer to that question, as there might be something some of us could do about it. All I

My own personal answer to that question is that I have read Lotr 4 times or so and I don't know the book that well. I often read the book forum gaining information and learning more. I have seen that some threads in the book forum are complex and complicated which is a good thing cause it has at least broadened my mined. But when I ever read these threads I have a constant feeling that I know nothing. This puts me in thinking why should I post when I know nothing. So I just continue to read and forget my silly ideas and questions. I know that I should post and ask questions because that is a step towards learning more but I have a feeling of inferiority.
And it feels sometimes, to me, that you have to be an A grade student to be able to post in the book forum.
Just my 2 cents!

[Arvedui]

IMO, there is no such thing as silly ideas and questions!
You can bet that if there is one thing you have a question about, then there is also a lot of other members having that same question. So why not put it forth?
And the same goes for idea or views. Maybe your so-called silly ideas are ideas that no others have thought about? Then they would contribute to other members learning more.
After all, all the other posts are nothing more than a collection of other peoples ideas and questions.I have read Lotr 4 times or so and I don't know the book that well. LOL:) I have read it some 20 times or more, and I also feel that way. And I know that there are others that have the same feeling.

[HLGStrider]

I agree with Lhunithiliel.

1: I see a lot of things like this: Yes, there appear to be a half a dozen members who won't give up on the issue of the removal of the GoR and GoP. If only they'd shut up, this place would be a lot better off.

2: I have a hard time seeing how people would be too upset about the ban on those topics.

3: Why? because some changes and disputes in the forum that they don't like! If you don't like it, deal with it. Stop reading those threads or discover something new in TTF other than politics and religion

Just to name a few.

Isn't it interesting that the gripers who won't give up on the GoP and GoR aren't the ones starting all the threads?

I really don't understand why people hate these subjects all so much. I was fine with just a Serious Stuff and Bother, though I felt as a C9'er I should represent majority opinion and in the end that had called for a GoR and was supporting the GoR from what I could gather.

In return I was called "stubborn" while those who argued past when the GoR was founded that it should not be founded were not called stubborn.

Those is support of politics and religion on this forum are being made out to be disinterested in Tolkien (I can find quotes on this for you from plenty of threads about plenty of members from plenty of members), who are selfishly not looking out for the best of the forum, and are also beaters of dead horses.

Someone isn't playing fair.

[Lúthien Séregon]

I didn't start this thread to just make yet another complaint, but seriously to provide a humourous allegory on what this forum is like at the moment. I too think it will pick up, but I can't help but see the funny side of this situation as well.

[HLGStrider]

I think it was a faulty analogy as political subjects have been around since before I got into the forum which was long before you did, so you could never have seen it before the GoP so you wouldn't be able to know it was its glory days.

[Lúthien Séregon]

I wasn't talking about the fact that GoP or GoR were once a part of the forum, but the fact that so many people are annoyed or leaving simply because they ( the subjects ) were banned, which is very much within my time ( "Then people began to strive for changes beyond what TTF should be, and dissention gradually grew" ). This is supposed to be a Tolkien Forum, after all.

And if TTF was in its "glory days" before GoP, well that just proves the allegory to be correct even further, if dissention has been caused now that it's gone.

[Ithrynluin]

This thread started out fine and original, but thanks to some, it has turned into yet another bickering over the same old subject.

We have a plethora of threads like this one already. Shall we open up another one? Or how about ten?