What Changes in the movie tick you off the most: An Outcast Twist!

[HobbitGirl]

I was looking for some good Tolkien topics that we could discuss with an Outcasty twist, and I found this one in Old Threads-Great Topics! (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=171939#post171939).

So what does tick you off most about the movies? Is it the old rant that they cut out the fabulous Tom Bombadil? Is it that they made Helm's Deep way too long? Or is it that they stopped TTT in the middle of the book? Let's hear what the Outcasts think!

[Niirewen]

For me it would definately have to be how much they messed up Faramir's character. I love Faramir, he is so totally awesome, and they had to go and make him a jerk! Hmph. I'll never forgive them for that.

Btw, great topic, HG:)

[kohaku]

Things that ticked me off:

The warg scene/Aragorn over the cliff. Why??? The movie really didn't need more action scenes, and the time spent on this could have been used elsewhere, where it was needed. And I still cannot figure out what Aragorn going over the cliff accomplished.

Osgiliath. Again... what was the point of going to Osgiliath? MORE action??? A waste of time that could have been used elsewhere, again.

At first I was really angry at the change in Faramir's character as well, but there is a chance that it will be redeemed. I think the point was to emphasize his kinship to Boromir, then to contrast this with his decision to let Frodo go. Maybe not how I would prefer it to be done; I feel it was over the top to have him take Frodo and Sam all the way to Osgiliath, but we'll see how things turn out.

Luckily I was forewarned about the placement of the ending of the TTT movie.... otherwise that would probably be on the top of my list. However, I still think it could have made a great ending, to end after Shelob's lair. I think some of the unnecessary things in the movie could have been left out, and the time used to develop the plot to this point, leaving more time for ROTK.

[Turin]

The way they portrayed Faramir also anoyed me, and the way they overdid the Aragorn and Arwen relationship.

[ely]

Well, the "Aragorn over the cliff" scene was probably in order to give Arwen a bigger part in the film. And I didn't like it either.

Though what upset me most was the change in Faramir's character. Tolkien made him different from Boromir, in the film he was the same (remember that Boromir did understood his mistake and regretted his attempt to take the ring and so did Faramir in the movie).

The fact that the movie ended in the middle of the book didn't bother me at all. Because half of the ROTK book is actually appedixes. So, yeah, I would have probably done the same.

Other plot changes, well, I can live with them. Generally, I think it's a wonderful movie and I enjoy watching it. :D ;) :p

[My_Precious]

The attempts to make the movies funny, with the "No one tosses a dwarf" and the horse-makeout scene as follows. Besides that, the changes that were made to Faramir's character (although I have to see ROTK in order to weight the damage fully), and, as far as I could see in the trailer for ROTK, unnecessary plot twists involving Arwen/Elrond/Aragorn. Plus, I did not like the development in Gollum's character, but I only saw 2 minutes of the trailer, so, as I said, I have to wait till December.

[Arebeth]

*doesn't know if she's going to write it down or not*

Well.:o . As you may know, I always like the villain more than the good guy (don't ask me why), so the worse thing in my opinion will happen in ROTK. I don't think I will stand what they are going to do with Saruman.:( I know he had to die anyway (that's horrible enough, I... I... ahem), but if they change the end he...he will be betrayed...:( :( :( And as I'm not sure that... mmm. I'd better stop here before I fall in stupidity.:rolleyes:

[Mindy_O_Lluin]

Pretty avatar Arebeth. Looks kinda like Marlena Deitrich. Is it?

My major grief in the movies was Aragorn separating him self from Arwen - Cowardly, cruel, commitment phobic tripe. I would not take him back if I were her. I have still yet to concieve how they could now get back together in a way that would make sense and not be dysfuctional.

I also hated that Sam did not get his box of Lorien dirt. The rope was not so valuable as the other gifts and Sam was insolent in his response.

The rest didn't bother me much at all.

[Arebeth]

Originally posted by Mindy_O_Lluin
Pretty avatar Arebeth. Looks kinda like Marlene Dietrich. Is it?


Congratulations!!!:D

(Actually someone asked me who was Marlene Dietrich. Argh.)

[Mindy_O_Lluin]

Wow, I was way off on the spelling. Sorry about that.

[Gandalf The Grey]

Great topic, Hobbit Girl! :)

Mostly I'd have to go with Niirewen and Turin with unabashed dislike for how they mishandled Faramir's character.

In the movie, it looked like the only reason Faramir gave up the Ring was because keeping it meant getting dive-bombed by Nazgûl. True, he ended up ready to forfeit his life, all well and good. But this one good act had now become a fractured exception of an alien changeling Faramir, instead of fitting in with the wholesome integrity of book-version Faramir.

It was as if movie-version Faramir was "dumbed down" morality-wise. Like someone patronizingly thought modern audiences are now so programmed towards displays of greed, explosions, and special effects that we no longer have the patience to watch more gentle attributes of simple decency, when such simple decency is deemed unglamorous.

Realizing it can be said that in TTT, Frodo displayed pity for Gollum, and Sam displayed endearing loyalty to Frodo ... being presented with the Ruling Ring is a test. Movie-version Faramir was disallowed the same courtesy of reacting towards the temptation of the Ring in character that was allowed to Bilbo, Gandalf, Galadriel, Boromir and Gollum.


-- Gandalf the Grey

[Gandalf The Grey]

Other Highly Important Bits of Business!

* I also agree with kohaku and ely that Aragorn sky-diving without a parachute was unnecessary and distracting. (But come on, kohaku, didn't the wargs look cool? :) )

* And like ely, it didn't bother me that the movie ended in the middle of the book.

* Unlike My Precious, I liked the continued running gag about Dwarf Tossing, but hey, humor is a very personal thing, eh? On the other hand, I agree that the horse-kissing (or was that supposed to be CPR?) stuff was not entertaining.

* Hey Arabeth ... question for you. (And thanks for your kind words in the Philosophy thread, btw ... * bows *) What is your opinion of how they handled Saruman in TTT in the scene of the destruction of Orthanc by Ents?

Mindy O Lluin: Agree that they did a disservice to Aragorn by cheapening the relationship between him and Arwen.

* smoking a conversational bowl of Old Toby, settles back to observe for awhile *

-- Gandalf the Grey

[mr underhill]

I liked Gimli being for comic relief . What i hated was :

1) Didn't show enough of the attack on Gondor . Although it shouldn't be there i wanted to see more nazgul action .

2) The olympic runner .

3) The absurdity of merry and pippins adventure . They're on treebeards shoulder for three quarters of the movie .

4) No shelob :(

5) Gollum the good guy . Meh .

6) Sams ridiculous speech at the end .

7) Ganon vs Balrog . Rubbish intro . I could barely see anything .

and for FOTR

8 ) Boromir with ring on caradrhas . And aragorn taking his hand off his sword . Made boromir a villain .

9) The intro . Sauron the monster . Didn't look evil enough .

[Froggum]

Lots of rants:

- Making Arwen way more important than she really was

- Putting people and scenes in the movie that were'nt in the corresponding book. Examples: All the ELVES in TTT. Don't get me wrong, I like elves, but Tolkien is wonderful enough without making stuff up. Also- going to Osgiliath- never happened. There are more, but its been a year since I've seen TTT.

- They didn't make Treebeard half as cool as he really was.

- They cut out Tom Bombadil.

- They made Farimir look like a jerk, though they did pick a guy who looked like the guy they got to be Boromir. I'll give them credit for that.

- The orks didn't look evil enough- ooh.... I'm so scared of dreadlocks.

- Anyone who didn't know better would think Sauron was a giant eyeball from watching the movies.

-Their choice for Galadriel could have been better and the freaky scene where she spazzes out could have had less cheesy special effects- it just didn't seem to fit.

[Kailita]

Hmm. Well, let me first admit that the whole reason I got into Lord of the Rings was because of the movies...the first one in particular. I saw Fellowship and immediately fell in love with it...and even then, it took me a good year to finally crack down on the book and work my way to Two Towers. And even now I haven't read Return of the King. (Don't everyone throw tomatoes at me all at once...:rolleyes::o)

In response to the last two posts:

* I think the Merry/Pippin portrayal was done pretty well, considering that there were other things that were going on at the same time. It was a good way of explaining about the ents, if rather slow. Personally, I thought the ents didn't look bad, but I saw the movie before reading the book, so I really didn't have any previous picture of them in my head to begin with.

* Gollum was great! I had read The Hobbit a couple years before the movies came out, so I already had an idea of what he would look/act like, and Two Towers portrayed him almost exactly the way I saw him in my imagination. I loved the confliction inside him that they made very apparent.

* I considered Sam's "ridiculous speech" to be very moving, though now I can't really remember it word for word since I haven't seen it since last January.

* Boromir with the ring on Caradhras was a bit of a stretch, but I liked the way Aragorn had his hand on his sword. I think it was more to show Aragorn's loyalty to Frodo than Boromir's "villainy".

* Arwen was definitely overused. She was interesting in the book, and I think I would have liked her a lot better if they hadn't given her so many parts that she didn't deserve. That would have made her more mysterious and even more intriguing, rather than angering fans of the book.

* I can understand the cutting of Tom Bombadil. While he was a great and mysterious character, he didn't really seem to fit into the real scheme of the plot...and the movie was long enough as it was. :rolleyes:

* Changing Faramir around was definitely a mistake. Too much drama, not true to the books, screwed around one of the most noble characters in the story...:mad:

* I thought the orcs looked horribly evil, personally. More evil than I would have imagined them from simply reading the books, where there was little description of them.

* I don't think anyone would have matched up to Galadriel's beauty, but I did think - after reading the book - that the actress who played her wasn't really what she could have been. And the scene of Galadriel's struggle with the ring could definitely have been done better. Seeing the movie for the first time, I had no idea what was going on.

Just my two cents. ;)

[Gandalf White]

I agree with several things pointed out.

-The olympic torch orc. *shudders*
-I didn't really like Sam's speech either.
-Some of Gimli's humor was too much.
-Treebeard definitely wasn't as cool.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned my absolute biggest problem. Theoden! :eek: You think Faramir was slaughtered??? Ack! Manic depressive king...nothing like the books...scorning Aragorn, leaving the dead...:(


Didn't show enough of the attack on Gondor . Although it shouldn't be there i wanted to see more nazgul action . Actually, we didn't see much of the attack on Gondor, for the simple reason that it happens in RotK. In both the books and movies. :o We're supposed to be complaining about changes, not wishing for them. :D ;)

3) The absurdity of merry and pippins adventure . They're on treebeards shoulder for three quarters of the movie . Absurd? :confused: You'll like the EE then...


Ganon vs Balrog . Rubbish intro . I could barely see anything . You have got to be the first person who's said this! Even the most hardened purists I know LOVE the beginning? Were your eyes open? :p ;)

Boromir with ring on caradrhas . And aragorn taking his hand off his sword . Made boromir a villain . Again, I can't agree. This is used to show Boromir's weakness, and his friction with Frodo. (Also, I love how the Ring twitches on the chain as B holds it. Awesome touch!)

The orks didn't look evil enough- ooh.... I'm so scared of dreadlocks. Can I ask what exactly you wanted them to look like? They are "just" corrupted elves, after all...

On the whole Faramir thing. PJ has some good-sounding explanation for doing this, but we all know there really is no excuse. However, I do not think Faramir is on the same level as Boromir. There is much more in the EE to flesh out his character, perhaps he can regain some nobility. At least I hope so.

[My_Precious]

Originally posted by GandalftheGray

* Unlike My Precious, I liked the continued running gag about Dwarf Tossing, but hey, humor is a very personal thing, eh? On the other hand, I agree that the horse-kissing (or was that supposed to be CPR?) stuff was not entertaining.
That's just how I call it. It certainly looked like horse-kissing because the scene combined Aragorn's "dream" of kissing Arwen and the scene of him lying on the shore unconscious while the horse is licking his face... :)
And I'm not even going to start on the whole Faramir thing. He represented the brother who, unlike his family, had higher values than Boromir and his father, not the insecure son that the movie portrayed him to be.

[Arebeth]

Originally posted by GandalftheGray
* Hey Arebeth ... question for you. (And thanks for your kind words in the Philosophy thread, btw ... * bows *) What is your opinion of how they handled Saruman in TTT in the scene of the destruction of Orthanc by Ents?

ARGH!:rolleyes:
Well... Ahem... I don't think it's a good idea to speak about that... Anyway. I hated it when I saw it. Plus, with the lots of spoilers I was seriously afraid. But now I'm getting over it.:D
I don't think it will be so easy after ROTK.

[kohaku]

* I also agree with kohaku and ely that Aragorn sky-diving without a parachute was unnecessary and distracting. (But come on, kohaku, didn't the wargs look cool? )

NO!!!!!!:D

actually, no I was not impressed with the way the wargs looked. Stupid hyena-things, in my opinion. Not worth it at all!!

Merry, Pippin and the ents... that's another thing that could have been more fully developed. Visually, the ents were awesome, but they really did not strike me as the ancient, wise creatures as they are portrayed in the books. And I found it a little ridiculous that so much time would pass, but every time we saw Merry and Pippin, they were still riding on treebeard. A scene with Treebeard's dwelling would have broken the monotony.

See, they could have left out that darn warg scene and used some of that time to more fully develop the Merry/Pippin/ent stuff!!! Argh!!!

[BranMuffin]

RotK is out now so for those of you who haven't seen it this message contains spoilers.

I was upset when they cut out a lot of time needed to develop the intensity of travels through Mordor by Sam and Frodo. They just got into Mordor and then all of a sudden they are at Mt. Doom:confused: . Everything in Mordor was shortened including the tracking orcs(can't remember their names), the capture and retrieval of Frodo, Galadriel's gifts, and their on-going hunger and thirst.
Also they left out how Eowyn, Merry, and Faramir were healed not to mention the love story between Faramir and Eowyn(though I think it will be somewhat on the EE). I'm shure that upset Rhi :p .
I think the Shelob scene should definetely have been on TTT.
Gandalf's face-off with the Witch King was left out(but its in the trailer so I'm thinking it will be in the EE as well).
Pippen went to Gandalf for help with Denethor instead of his newfound friend and fellow soldier(agh, can't remember his name either, not having the book handy sucks).
The trek through the path of the dead was waaaay too short as well. But good effects:D .
A lot of things were left out, some small, some large, but overall it was a really good movie:) :) :) .

[Niirewen]

There were a lot of changes I didn't agree with in the ROTK, but if they had just not done the whole Frodo-telling-Sam-to-go-home thing I think I would be able to get over the rest. That change ticked me off most.

[Gandalf White]

Change that ticked me off the most?

"Arwen's fate is now bound to the Ring." ~ Elrond

Figurative, but it ticked me off for a second.

I hear that in the EE we get to see the disguised Frodo and Sam get stuck in the group of orcs and forced to match... :cool: