goodbye

[Talierin]

Well, thanks to the Threats against TTF thread, I finally see what people and even my fellow mods think about me. I'm glad you all could say it in such a nice way, out in public in front of the whole forum. Makes me feel real great, especially about ending my nearly two year long term as a mod.

A little history: When I was made a mod two years ago, nobody really modded S&B, and it was a mess. So I made the decision to mod it and not the book sections. As the board grew and we added more and more off-topic sections, I sorta just became the off-topic mod and since that took up all my TTF time I slowly just quit participating in the book sections. I felt I wasn't needed in the book sections, and that was fine. Then I was made a supermod and suddenly everyone's angry about it cause horrors, I don't read the book section. Well, hate to break it to you, but supermods have more to do with actually RUNNING the site than they do with modding either S&B or books. It's taken me awhile to learn that, but I guess it's too late.
Sorry I wasn't a book mod like everyone seemed to want. Goodbye.

[Kellivara]

*cries* but.....but.....I'll miss you!! *will IM you on MSN as soon as she sees you* buh bye Tal!:(

[korhall]

whoever made tal leave is in so much trouble

[Eledhwen]

Originally posted by korhall
whoever made tal leave is in so much trouble Yes, what's all this about Tal? I don't spend much time in S&B so I seem to have missed a scrap. Why not just take it all in your stride and remember this little ditty:

Life is butter, life is butter,
Melon Cauliflower'
Melon Cauliflower.
Life is but a melon,
Life is but a melon,
Cauliflower,
Cauliflower.

It's called "Life is but a melancholy flower".

[Eliot]

*sniff* :(

Oh no...there goes another greatly-loved member of The Tolkien Forum. :( :(

You'll be missed greatly, Tal!

[Celebthôl]

*sigh*

This is very bad for the forum. Well i tried to talk her back, but failed, you guys really blew it this time! :(

[Gandalf White]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
you guys really blew it this time! :(

Don't generalize, it was actually a very small number of people, 2 or 3 at most, I believe. :(

Tal, the best way to come back at these people is to stay right where you are, doing your job as well as ever. If you still want to leave I wish you the best of luck and a saddened farewell. :(

[Nimawae's hope]

Tal, please don't leave! You've been here longer than I have and have done so much for this place. I don't know exactly what happened, but I agree with Gandalf White. You can get back at these people by doing just what you have always done.

No one wants you to go. We'll miss you.:(

Goodbye, Tal. You've been a great mod.:(

[Scatha]

Well Tal, what can I say? Let me be amongst the rest to state I do NOT wish to see you leave, but I do want to add something, despite what caused this to happen.

A moderator will always be a position where you are being whined at, argued about, etc. In light of these recent events, allow me to tell you something:

You did what you had to do as a mod, supermod there after and most of all as a member, plus you did it well. I enjoyed your presence, even though we never talked that much, aside from in the artists guild and in regards to modding issues.

It saddens me to see you leave over a petty thing like this, even more that you took the entire matter personal, or so it seems. At this point, i'm going to tell you something, which you may not like. I really thought that you would have more stamina, then the one you are currently displaying. You're a mod and a fine one at that, therefor you must know that wind will always blow your way, as you can never please everyone. You know that as much as I do.

Whatever decision you make as a mod, there will always be someone not agreeing with it and giving you a hard time for it. So what if they do? Just as long as you know you did the right thing, which you can tell by the reaction of WM, who cares what the rest think?

I seriously hope you will reconsider.

[Khamul]

Hmm, emotions are a tricky thing, Tal. Wherever you go, you are not going to be liked by someone. Heck, I get bashed all the time, but you just have to learn that things will sort themselves out soon enough. Maybe taking a break from the forums for a little while would best be in order. Would really be a shame to see you leave.

Though, you would be welcome at Fantasyvault, if you wanted to join; though, I think there are probably too many hard feelings from that anyways. :(

[Rhiannon]

AAAAAAAAH!!!!

No no no, bad bad bad bad!

Tal is a great mod. She is a great person. She is not vindictive or cruel and she's done the best she can at a thankless job. That she feels she needs to leave is a crime.

I've been at the forum less than a year, and I love it, but Tal has been my friend for more than two years, and I loved her first. She's the reason I'm here. I don't know all the history of the forum and all the past squabbles, and I obviously haven't been watching the current ones closely enough because this comes as a shock to me. And it's unfair. People, Tal has been beating herself up for the forum, and it is not fair for her to be driven away.

Tal, I don't want you to leave! Let someone else step forward to mod the off topic discussions, so you can take a break and come be with us who like you!

[Talierin]

Thanks for the support guys, but my mind is made up...

And a note: I'm not leaving ttf just yet..

[Ciryaher]

Adieu, comrade Tal. It is not good when people who are putting so much into doing a good job get blamed for others' shortcomings.

As far as I can tell, it was Lantarion, Gil-Galad, and snaga1 who were the primary voices of criticism.

[Elbereth]

It is a shame to see you go Tal. You were the finest mod that I have ever come across. You have shown nothing but hardwork, dedication, and fairness to the Tolkien Forum in all of the months that I have been a member of this forum...and I will miss you greatly. You have always been there for people in need...and at least for me have been the "go to" person whenever an issue needed to be dealt with in the forum. And I know I can't say that about many other mods on this forum.

Those who criticize her validity as a mod for not participating in the book threads, I would like to say...please, give it a rest already! Just because someone doesn't post in those threads doesn't mean they know less of Tolkien-lore then other members. If someone chooses not to post in the book threads, it does not make them a lesser member, nor does it mean that their knowledge of Tolkien is any less than those who post in those threads frequently. There could be a number of reasons for someone not to post in Tolkien-related threads....and I don't believe it is anyone's place to judge them for it.

If that has hurt or offended anyone...then I'm very sorry that is not my intention...but it needs to be said.

All I'm saying folks is stop judging and picking apart each other...it is only going to result in more animosity.

[Rangerdave]

My dear Talierin.

I am greatly troubled by your decision to resign your position. When I was asked to join the Forum staff, you were instrumental in helping me in my understanding of the dynamics and necessities of a Moderator. Just as you again have helped guide me with my new responsibilities. Both I and the Forum as a whole are lessened by your decision to relinquish your charge.
I ask you, please: not only for myself, but also for the good of the forum to look upon this as a temporary situation. I completely understand your decision to leave, but suggest that you not make this a permanent solution. Perhaps a leave of absence would be the best resolution for this quandary. That way, the other members of the staff and myself can try to heal the rift that is deepening, while giving you some time to relax and enjoy yourself without having to deal with the day to day minutia that is TTF. Then, at a time of your choosing, you can reassume the mantle of Moderator or return to membership at large without these troubles forcing your hand.



To the membership at large, and most especially those who have actively sought to intensify the strife on the Forum. I will not use this sad occasion to conduct a witch-hunt or vendetta against any member. While I will greatly miss Talierin’s guidance, I will continue to moderate the Forum as I deem best. I do not hold a grudge, neither do I forget.

Thank you
RD

[Idril]

Originally posted by Ciryaher
As far as I can tell, it was Lantarion, Gil-Galad, and snaga1 who were the primary voices of criticism.

*sign* will it never stop. I really don't think naming fellow members in this way is constructive in anyway. It only leads to devisivenss and bad feeling and is really downright irresponsible.

[Niniel]

Exactly, those responsible will hear from it, so let's not name them in public.
Tal, I really hope you reconsider your decision. I know from experience that if you do a job that is important, but does not happen in 'public view' (I for one never knew what a mod exactly does), you never get the credit for it that you undoubtedly deserve. I have never thought that you were any less 'worthy' of being a mod, because you didn't post in the book forums. In fact I think that only 20% of the members posts in the book forums regularly, so everyone should ask themselves if they have the right to criticise only you. And because the book forums aren't that often visited, the others need special attention- and I think you gave them all the attention they needed. Please Tal, don't let some shortsighted people spoil it for you and for TTF!

[Lantarion]

Despite what everybody here seems to think, it was NEVER my intention to get talierin to quit as Moderator!! I am well aware of her efforts and work for the bettering if the S&B section, and have never said that she was doing a bad job as a Moderator. I am overwhlemed and extremely sad to see her go. :(
(Oh and thank you Cir, for adding to my already crushing guilt. I suppose I deserve it. Oh and Niniel I don't appreciate the threat, but I guess I deserve that too.)

I was in fact critisizing WM for promoting her to SuperMod, for which I felt there was no reason: again that is not saying that Tal was doing a bad job, read my words as you will. :mad:
Negative aspects of the forum are present, and it does no good to ignore them. I brought one up, and hey presto! it's made things worse. What an infinitely ironic turn of events.
But I will no longer address this issue in public, but with WM personally.

I ask that all shouts, criticisms, flamings and general nastiness towards me be expressed via PM, so I can answer that member personally. But it's only a request..

[Niniel]

Originally posted by Lantarion
Oh and Niniel I don't appreciate the threat, but I guess I deserve that too.
I wasn't threatening you Lanty (I wouldn't dare...:) ), I was just repeating what WM had already said in another thread, that he would deal with was going on, to remind people that they shouldn't go about naming people as guilty of anything that has happened recently.

[Galdor]

I'm utterly disgusted with the lot of you. You're nothing more than a bunch of hypocritical snobs. Lanty hurt Tal unintentionally, but you are ten times worse, as you hurt Lanty intentionally. Tal over reacts at something he and the others say and suddenly you all find it your duty to demonize them? How many of you have actually read the thread? The only one who said something against Tal was Snaga, the others just suggested that she wasn't the best choice for super-mod. Tal had absolutely no reason to take offence, and is acting horribly immature in this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tal, and would be more than happy to see her stay. And I also see her as a good choice for a Super-Mod, I think she is a great asset to the forum. After I read the thread I talked with her on MSN to try and talk her out of leaving. So don't think I'm just trying to bash Tal. While Lanty and the others may have been wise to voice their opinions with perhaps a little more tact, that doesn't change the fact that she has no excuse for her conduct in this. The blame for her leaving rests on only one person, herself.

Do you all think that Lanty is dancing with glee because he hurt Tal? You are by far worse than he. Do you not take a moment to think about how Lanty and the others feel about this? You make them out to be such horrible people for doing so much less than what you do now. Don't you realize how much guilt they must be feeling over this? Do you think they feel good about hurting Tal, even if they didn't mean to? All you guys are doing is being a bunch of self-righteous unfeeling hypocrites. One good member leaves because she over reacted and took offence where none was meant, and you all try to chase away another good member just because it makes you feel good. If this is the over all attitude on TTF, than I'm ashamed to call myself a member. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

I understand that some of you in this thread have not attacked Lanty and the others, and I applaud you for your sensibility. And as to the rest of you, yes, I called you names. And while I do not believe that you are as you have acted, and with a brief look in the mirror will realize your fault, your actions still displayed the names that I gave. I gave them to make a point, in order that you might see your aditudes is this, not to show how I actualy feel or view you. Some of you who I am addressing are actualy friends of mine. There is no reason for anyone to take offence at this, but rathe that ehy step back for a moment to take a look at things, and than perhaps change their aditudes.

Everyone needs to calm down and relax. There is no need to take offence where none is intended, no reason to give offence, no reason to make minor issues into major forum fights, no reason to attack the person just because you don't like his point of view, no reason to attack people before you get all the facts, and reason to get all mad about what does not warrent your anger. If everyone would just relax, takes things in stride, be calm, understanding, senitive, etc. We wouldn't have these problems.


If the Mods still want to warn me anyway, than so be it.

[Lantarion]

I'd just like to say (without lessening my guilt) that those were inspired words, Galdor; terrifically said.

[Rhiannon]

I wasn't blaiming Lantarion- I posted above before reading the Threats thread, and everything I said was directed to the public in general. Having read the thread now, I have to say that while I disagree with what you said, Lantarion, and I thought it was certainly inappropriate to be saying it publicly, I don't think you were trying to offend anyone or drive anyone away. I am placing the blaim primarily on other people.

[Ciryaher]

I was not trying to demonize Lantarion, but someone asked who all started it, and I relayed the names. If there is some sort of lynch mob forming, I will be among the first to stand up for Lanty, Snaga, and Gil-Galad (as well as anyone else who feels that things need to be said reasonably). Nobody did it for me but I'll sure as heck do it for you, Lanty.

[korhall]

everyone, lets just calm down for a sec. this is a place where the accused have rights remember. let the people accused explain their actions before judging them. i know something is not being told here, because i know snaga, its not in his character to do what you all say he has done. give him a chance to defend himself before condemning him.

lets give anyone accused of making tal leave a chance to come and face their peers. but in the end everyone remember that this is not our decision and tal might not want us doing this on her behalf. so lets be a little bit less eager to crucify someone based only on what we have heard untill we have heard it all from both sides.

[Talierin]

Forget it, I'm a biased overemotional mod and there's nothing else to be said for it. It's over now. I'm leaving.

[Snaga]

Thank you Cir. Thank you Korhall. But I think in fact it would be better all round if I did NOT defend myself. It has been said elsewhere that WM will take the steps that he sees fit in this matter and I do not have a public right of reply. In any event I have already said that I will not speak further on this subject on TTF, and I will stick to that commitment. If there are any lynch-mobs forming, then if my orc-hide is as thick as legend has it, I believe I will survive a little ritual scape-goating if that is what is needed for peace.

[Galdor]

Forget it, I'm a biased overemotional mod and there's nothing else to be said for it. It's over now.

Sigh, Tal, as far as I've seen no one has called you bias, or overemotional. All I said was that you over-reacted and that you should have been more mature about this situation. This is simply objective critism. Everyone of us reacts badly to situations at times. If you didn't you wouldn't be human. To point out that someone reacted badly in one situation is not to say that you don't respect that person, or appreciate all that they do. I believe that I can speak for the vast majority of us here in saying that you are a very good mod, and we don't want to see you leave.

Take a couple days off to calm down a bit and think things through a bit. It might be good for you to have a few days not having to deal with the forum. It might take a load off your mind for a while. You put in a lot of time to keeping this forum running smoothly and making it a all around better place for all.

[Talierin]

You didn't see the thread in GoM...

and I've made up my mind, I'm leaving. Have fun.

[Lantarion]

Take it as you wish. I wish you would not go, seriously. I tried to convey that, but apparently to no avail.
All I said in the thread in GoM you are referring to is that you are taking this childishly; and I also point out that you have every right to. I have apologized over and over, in public, in GoM, in PM... But if you still feel that you need to leave, by all means do so. You will be missed, remembered and grieved, but go. I'm sure it's what you think is best, thuogh I beg to differ.

[Talierin]

*sighs* I guess I"m coming back. I talked to Lanty and I think we cleared things up. I still want to be a mod, but no more of this supermod stuff, I'm not cut out for it, I guess... I"m sorry for all the people I've been biased towards, I'll try better in the future not to be... :(

[Kellivara]

*claps* I'm so glad things are getting better again! I was sad that everyone was yelling at everyone else!

[Ancalagon]

Supermod is not all its cracked up to be Tal, I mean, you could be liek me and find yourself with all these extra tools and inadvertently remove all the posts in the Writers Guild while trying to do someone a favour...DOH!

[korhall]

now lets all go to the pheonix lair pub, i'm buying

[Rhiannon]

*relief* Yay! Now, where's my 'I <heart> Tal' shirt...

[Beleg]

and I've made up my mind, I'm leaving. Have fun.


*sighs* I guess I"m coming back.

LOL! Sorry, it's just funny the way human nature works!
Anyway, glad to see that you have ventured to change your decision Talierien and bridged up your problems with Lantarion.




:D

I only disagree with one thing. Repeated topics. If anyone would care to look at the threads in the recent past in both History of Middle-earth and Silmarillion section, one will find many debate questions, many interesting analysis, many fascinating questions that have not been asked/repeated before, atleast not discussed in detail.

[Eledhwen]

This thread reads like the book of Job!

Time for Tal's detractors to sacrifice a bull and ask her forgiveness.

Welcome back from the brink, Tal. This forum's too good for all this slagging.

[Helcaraxë]

I too am glad that you are staying Tal.

Lanty, don't beat youself up too much over this. I'm sure that whatever you did, you did unintentionally. We should just forget about this and move on. Pretend it never happened.



--MB

[Nimawae's hope]

I'm so glad you are staying, Tal. And I'm so glad this is starting to wind down. :) Welcome back Tal.