Dominus Anulorum, or: LotR in Latin!

[Earendilyon]

Hi. Since some time I'm busy translating the LotR to Latin! If you're interested, you can find my site at Dominus Anulorum (http://www.geocities.com/dominusanulorum/). If you've questions, suggestions or comments, please put them here, or mail them via the suggestion box at the site.

[Beleg]

Hi Earendilyon! Nice to see you here too!
One question, have you thought about creating vocal copies of the translated text, read by you or someone else?

[Earendilyon]

Beleg, in one word: nope.

Nice to meet you too :)

Edit: I've come to Bilbo saying 'good-bye' at the Party, btw :)

[BlackCaptain]

Wow, I'm taking first year latin right now and to the extent of my knowledge that looks GREAT. You should try and find someone who might publish it for you or something like that (That is when you're finished, if you finish)... I'm sure many people'd be interested!

[Earendilyon]

BC, I'm not so sure as you seem, that there will be many people who are interested in it.
Btw, you do remember, I hope, that the next sentence after the quote in your signature is "All save one."? ;)

[BlackCaptain]

Well maybe lots of people won't be interested in buying it, but maybe if you spread the word that you're doing it other people'll be as amazed as me...

As to the line in my signature, you got me... but then again there's also the cool part right after that where I TOTALY tell it to Gandalf! :p

[Firawyn]

Your site is AMAZING!!!! I'm in my second year od Latin and like Black Captian said, all looks great! I think I'll print out a page or two of it and she it to my latin teacher. She will be siked! (And maybe it'll convince her to get the internet-something some of her students have been trying to get her to do for a while)

So hey! Keep up the good work!

PS....So how many years have you been studying Latin?

[Earendilyon]

Thank you, Sabeen, for your praising words. If your teach (or you yourself) has any comments or suggestions, please put them here, or mail them via the site.

I had in highschool some years Latin, at uni I did a basis grammar course, some years back and I'm doing another course on grammer and translation at this moment, also at the uni.

[Firawyn]

That's awsome. In the class I'm taking(I'm homeschooled) we are using a book called Latin Road to English Grammer by Barbra Beers. After this year is over there wont be a Latin III offered but I'd like to continue to study the language. What text do you suggest?

I really didn't know how popular Latin has become :D

[Earendilyon]

Well, I'm not really acquainted with Latin texts, so you might get a better advice from someone else (your teacher for example).
You can always try my translation of the LotR ofcourse, or (assuming from you signature that you're a fellow Christian) you can also try the Vulgate translation (http://www.biblija.net/biblija.cgi?m=&id8=1&pos=0&set=3&lang=en) of the Bible. You can also put more translations at the same time on the page, so you can have an English translation alongside it.

[Firawyn]

Great site! I'll ask my teach about the text books too, though. Yes I'm a Christian! Go to see another one here to. I like TTF so much because there are so many Jesus Freaks hanging out. It's great!

And a suggestian about your site...maybe you could but a little thing one it that says "e-mail this site to a friend" or something. I was anxious to show other people your site but it took me 15 blasted minutes to figure out a way to do so. Thank you.

[Earendilyon]

I really do not know how to do that in HTML code. A bit of copy&paste is not that difficult, is it?

[Firawyn]

Is That all I Had To Do?!!!

[Earendilyon]

Yep. Copy the URL from the address bar and paste it in your email.
In InternetExplorer, you can also go to 'file', 'send', 'link by email' (of that last one I'm not perfectly sure, because I've no English version of IE). It's rather easy. If you know how to do it, that is.

[Belladonna Took]

Hi,
I took Latin in HS and I just wanted to tell you how awesome and totally sweet I think your website is!! I was just wondering if you plan on doing the whole trilogy though, or just selected chapters?

[Earendilyon]

Thank you, Bella for the kind words. I indeed started this with the intention to translate the whole thing. But I think that will cost me some years ... As I do this for my own entertainment and not as a job or something the like, I don't mind, really.

[JennyDolfen]

Oh my life (per deos immortales!) I can't believe you actually did this! Wonderful!

I'm a Latin teacher, and a few years ago, i wrote a synopsis of the Lord of the Rings for my students--just one page (and, of course, I called it "Dominus Anulorum). Wow. And a few years ago, during my University time, i needed to work on my German->Latin translation skills and translated a few Silmarillion passages into Latin. I doubt I have them anymore, but wow, it's so cool to find people who share my interests and obessions! I feel very much at home here already! ;)

[Earendilyon]

You're welcome :)

Please feel free to comment me on my translation, here in this thread or via my site, through the suggestion box.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

LotR is a thousand page book in its entirety! It's like the Bible! Translating it would take some years and then rare people could really read it...but it's a nice thought anyway.
I have never studied Latin in school but many words there seem quite familiar since it's the basic language from which English and German have derived into distinct languages on their own.

What if someone translated the whole LotR into Quenya or Sindarin..? :)

[Earendilyon]

Ireth, the Bible is actually somewhat thicker :) At another message board, there's a group trying to translate the Bible into Quenya! :eek: That's even a larger task than I set myself to :)

[Ireth Telrúnya]

I know it's a bit thicker, both the old and the new testament are thousand pages..They are really trying to translate the Bible into Quenya?!! Would be interesting to read it in Quenya. I know it a little by now.

[JennyDolfen]

...since it's the basic language from which English and German have derived into distinct languages on their own.



Not quite--Latin, as well as the Germanic languages (from which English and German are derived) all stem from one Indoeuropean basis, but English and German aren't really derived from Latin... French and Italian and Spanish are, though. :)

The reason why Latin is almost readable for an Englishman is that many Latin loanwords have found their way into English over the centuries. :)

[Earendilyon]

The reason why Latin is almost readable for an Englishman is that many Latin loanwords have found their way into English over the centuries. "Almost readable" is a bit exaggerated, I think :)

English is, ofcourse, also hugely influenced by (Norman) French, which is a Romance language. IIRC, up to 30% of English is from French descend.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

Oh well, I should have checked this, I seemingly didn't remember it correctly...I knew about the Indo-European origins. Anyway, Latin has influenced English in Roman times, as well as French around the fourteenth century when French ruled England.
English has developed from the language of the Germanic tribes of Anglos, Saxons and Jutes who invaded British Isles around the fifth century A.D.

[Manveru]

Excellent... keep it coming!
I'm in love with this language (though I'm only a beginner... and your work "heated up" even more my desire to master it;)).

All the best with your project...
Ave, Ce...err...Earendilyon!!

:D

[Lantarion]

IIRC, up to 30% of English is from French descend.

And as French is based for an extremely large part on latin, perhaps we can go as far as to say that English is derived at least partially from Latin itself? ;)
As for Latin loanwords, yes as I have realized myself there are extremely many.. But a similarity which I find even more striking, almost uncanny, is that of English and Swedish. In Finland all students are required a minimal amount of Swedish, some four years or so at least, so I have a relatively good bearing on the language. But the similarities in vocabulary are just mind-numbing, it is more than apparent that both Swedish and modern English originated from the same 'root'; as I recall, the actual root would have been the Indo-European root system, but the fork-in-the-road point between English and Swedish was, I think, Anglo-Saxon or 'Old English'.
Swedish has been easy for me to learn on a mild level because of the insane amount of similarities; however, I had such a minimal interest in it when we began to learn it in school (as most Finnish youths do) that I never got around to learning it properly. But I'm told that I have a very authentic accent! :D

It's funny that I haven't posted in this thread before, being the language-lover that I am.. I've also studied several courses of Latin, and got high marks.. But because of the lack of time and amount of work gathreing up, I didn't/don't have time to attend the other courses. :( It's a crying shame, but I have the books from the course and I think I'll continue taching myself in the future. :)
And it's so wonderful to have an English and Latin teacher in our midst now too!! You an a member called 'jallan' will get along fabulously, I reckon. ;)

[JennyDolfen]

If a Mod brings this off-topic, am I allowed to go along? :D

Lantarion: You're right, if English and Latin are cousins three times removed, English and Swedish are brother and sister. :) Add the fact that there was a direct influence of Swedish on English in the seventh till eleventh centuries, when the entire North of England was colonized by the Vikings.

(Can you tell this was my exam topic?) =)

[Lantarion]

Yarr those Vikings.. True linguists.. :p
Haha wow must've been an interesting exam.. Why don't I get given exams like that, instead of mathematics or physics?! :(

Ahem, sorry about going off-topic.. *slaps self* I would give myself Warning Points, but the system isn't up yet! :o

[Earendilyon]

English has, of course, a rather complicated, but nice, history:
It has some traces of the old Celtish language of the Britons, was influenced by the Roman occupation, then by Angels, Jutes, Saxons, and Frisians invading and staying. After some 3, 4 centuries or so the Vikings came and also stayed after some time and finaly, the country was again occupied by Frencified Vikings of Normandy. They all left their traces in the English language. I'm sure contemporary immigrants put their mark on English too, nowadays.

[JennyDolfen]

You forgot the third great wave of Latinization in the Renaissance. :)

Yes, I quite enjoyed Linguistics at University... I even got to write a termpaper called "The Languages of Middle-earth" for a literature course I took. Now that was the coolest paper I've ever written. Much fun.

[Earendilyon]

With all those language waves, one overlooked doesn't matter :)

Btw, I've just added a Guestbook to my site, so people can tell me what they think about the site and the translation.

[JennyDolfen]

I promise to look deeper into it in a while. :) And I'm sure I'll give an excerpt of it to my students one day if you don't mind. :)

[Earendilyon]

That's ok with me. It will be interesting to see how close they will get back to the original text, although you will probably have them translate it to German.

PS nighty night, it's as late here as with you :) [living in die Niederlande and all]

[Ireth Telrúnya]

Old English was more similar with Finnish, since it had more word inflections than today. It just dropped them and moved on first to Middle-English and then the modern one. And all this happened from 500 A.D to sixteenth century time period.
I wonder if this is the trend of languages in general...

Anyway, I've decided that I have to read The Beowulf sometime. I have an interesting excerpt on it in the Old English in a book.

[JennyDolfen]

Ireth: Yes, that is a trend of languages--the dropping of inflections happens if they're not needed. In Latin, you have inflections because the word order is totally up to you. In English, the word order is fixed and you know which is which without having inflections. :)

If several languages are in contact with each other, this happens faster, as inflections are harder to learn. (Ask any Year Eight learning Latin!) So the languages are simplified in terms of morphology (inflections), but acquire all those funny little exceptions to rules we all love English for. :D

[Belladonna Took]

Ireth:
Its awesome that you're thinking of reading Beowulf, may I suggest looking for an audio version of it? I had an awesome english teacher once who played parts of an audio of Beowulf, old English is a great/fun language to listen to.
Sorry, that was ridiculously off-topic I have a flighty brain.

[fadhatter]

isnt it hard enough just trying to understand what tolkien said in his native tongue?? and yours?

[Earendilyon]

isnt it hard enough just trying to understand what tolkien said in his native tongue?? and yours? Nope, no problems, in neither language :)

[Earendilyon]

Just a friendly reminder to all of you about my li'l project. I've not that much time at the moment to work on it, unfortunately, but I hope I will have in the (near) future again.

Here's the last version of the Ring Verse I made:
Tres Anuli regibus Alfonum sub caelo,
Septem Dominis Nanorum in lapidis aulis,
Novem Hominibus Mortalibus ad morendum damnatis,
Unus Domino Obscuro in solio obscuro,
In Terra Mordoris ubi Umbrae,
Unus Anulus ad eos omnes regendos,
Unus Anulus ad eos inveniendos,
Unus Anulus ad eos omnes ferendos et eos in tenebris astringendos,
In Terra Mordoris ubi Umbrae.

[e.Blackstar]

Oh man, that is so cool! I want to learn Latin really badly but there aren't any classes for it at my high school and it bites majorly. :( :mad: :eek:

[Earendilyon]

Well, well, well, it's been a very long time since I posted here :o In that time, I haven't had as much time as I wanted to to work on this, but certain things have been added to my site. Have a look!
One of the things is the improved Ring Poem:
Tres Anuli regibus Alfonum sub caelo,
Septem Dominis Nanorum in lapidis aulis,
Novem Hominibus Mortalibus ad moriendum damnatis,
Unus Domino Atro in solio obscuro,
In Terra Mordore ubi Umbrae,
Unus Anulus ad eos omnes regendos,
Unus Anulus ad eos inveniendos,
Unus Anulus ad eos omnes ferendos et eos in tenebris astringendos,
In Terra Mordore ubi Umbrae.

Another thing is, that my site is mirrored by the people of Eldalie.ch (http://www.eldalie.ch/). So, pay a visit some time at my mirror site (http://www.eldalie.ch/dominusanulorum/) too!

Greetings,
Earendilyon

[Aiwendil2]

Great work! I like "Alfones" for Elves. I've been translating some of the Silmarillion into Latin and struggling to come up with an appropriate translation.

One thought on the Ring verse. You revised line 4 to read:

Unus Domino Atro in solio obscuro,

The original is "One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne". It seems to me that it would be better to retain the repetition of "dark" as you did in the older version:

Unus Domino Obscuro in solio obscuro

Just a thought. Although I suppose the latter line doesn't scan as well.

[Earendilyon]

Thanks for the reaction, Aiwendil!

I chose ater (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D %234233) over obscurus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D %2331814), as ater seemed more apropriate when referring to Sauron.

Could you post some of your translation of the Silm here (or mail it to me)? I'd be very much interested!

[Aiwendil2]

I'd be happy to send you my translation of the Ainulindale as soon as I get my other computer up and running again. Other than that, it's mostly just bits and pieces I've translated, though I do intend to eventually proceed with the Valaquenta and the Quenta Silmarillion. I should warn you, though, that it's been a while since I took a Latin class and I'm sure my version has some errors.

[Earendilyon]

Don't worry 'bout that, I'm no professional either, and I'd be happy to read your bits 'n' pieces :)

[Aiwendil2]

Okay, the other computer is running again (barely). Earendilyon, if you send me your e-mail address I'll send it to you.

If anyone else wants to look at it, I can send it as well.

[Earendilyon]

You could try the mail box thingy at my site (right upper corner) of course ;)

[Aiwendil2]

Actually, I think I'll just put it up on the server space (http://pantheon.yale.edu/~skl28) my school provides.

[Earendilyon]

Actually, I think I'll just put it up on the server space (http://pantheon.yale.edu/~skl28) my school provides.

Looks nice, Aiwendil! Will have a closer look when I've some more time. If you would like, I'd be glad to put your work (with due reference to you) at my site (http://www.geocities.com/dominusanulorum/) and its mirror (http://www.eldalie.ch/dominusanulorum/).

[Aiwendil2]

If you would like, I'd be glad to put your work (with due reference to you) at my site and its mirror.

That would be nice - thanks. I could also link to your site.

[Earendilyon]

Aiwendil, I've put your work on my site (not yet on the mirror site) under "Res reperticiae', with your email-address, for people to ask questions of you. If you don't want this, I'll edit it out right away.