Yule in the Shire

[I KNOW KUNG-FU]

I'm sorry if this is not in the correct area, but I did not know where to put it. Plus, I thought that this was the most correct place to post it because it is querying something that Tolkien wrote about in the appendices...

Basically, Hobbits celebrate Yule don't they? But NOT Christmas...they obviously don't because, well, Jesus just didn't exist in Middle-earth. They had Eru and all the other amazing beings instead

Anyway...I was just wondering whether - you're going to hate me for saying this - Tolkien had made a minor error there?

I looked up the definition of 'Yule' in a dictionary, and it came up with 'Christmas time'. But surely, the hobbits don't have Christmas?

Is 'Christmas' just what Yule has been known as over the years or is it just an alternative name? I always thought that 'Yule' was just a time of celebration that fell on/around christmas but didn't actually celebrate the birth of Christ.

I get the impression that the 'Yule' in the Shire is the celebration of Winter and the New Year (it also falls on 25th Dec by the Shire Calendar) but I was just wondering whether Tolkien wanted Hobbits to have their own version of Christmas, but obviously, not the same sort of celebrations as we have.

Please give me your opinion, I'm rather confused!:confused:

And I'm sorry if this makes no sense!

[Niniel]

I believe Yule was in Old Norse societies a feast celebrating midwinter, and the lengthening of the days after midwinter. When these societies were christianized they started using the name Yule for Christmas. But I'm sure Tolkie used it in its old sense, since there were lots of other things that he took from old Norse society as well.

[I KNOW KUNG-FU]

Thanks for your comments. I must admit that that was what I thought, but I was just curious as to whether this was actually the case...

...I'm pretty sure (no, 100% certain) that Tolkien would not have made such a foolish mistake!:D

[elffriend]

Yule is celebrated on the winter solstice on the 21st of december, which in the western hemisphere is the day of the shortest hours of daylight. It is a festival to celebrate the return of the sun, as from this point on the sun becomes stronger and there is more daylight, most pagan traditions celebrate yule, and not christmas. Christmas came in to being when the western world was christianised, this was done so that they could convert the pagans.
Most pagan beliefs celebrate the birth of the sun on 21 december, it is also pagan tradition to give gifts, burn a yule log, decorate the home with, holly, ivy and mistletoe.

[jallan]

Tolkien explains Yule in his "Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings", a list of hints to translators:Yule. The midwinter counterpart of Lithe. It only occurs in The Lord of the Rings in Appendix D, and 'Midwinter' only occurs once during the main narrative. The midwinter festival was not an Elvish custom, and so would not have been celebrated in Rivendell. The fellowship, however, left on December 25, which had then no significance, since the Yule, or its equivalent, was then the last day of the year and the first of the next year. But December 25 (setting out) and March 25 (accomplishment of the quest) were intentionally chosen by me.
In translation, Yule should like Lithe be treated as an alien word not generally current in the Common Speech. It should therefore be retained, though with a spelling suitable to the language of translation: so for example in Danish or German spelt Jule. Yule is found in modern English (mostly as a literary archaism), but this is an accident, and cannot be taken to imply that a similar or related word was also found in the Common Speech at that time: the hobbit calendar differed throughout from the official Common Speech calendars. It may, however, be supposed that a form of the same word had been used by the Northmen who came to form a large part of the population of Gondor (III 328), and was later in use in Rohan, so that some word like Yule was well known in Gondor as a 'northern name' for the midwinter festival; somewhat like the appearance in modern German of Jul (as a loan from the North?), in such words as julblock 'Yule-log' and Julklapp (as in Swedish and similarly in Danish). In Scandinavia, of course Jule would be well understood.At Info on the merin sentence (http://www.elvish.org/elm/merin.html) is a further mention of Elves not celebrating Yule:In his letter he mentioned a wholly new Quenya sentence Tolkien sent to some Dorothy, who had been mailing with Mr Dawson's mother. Dorothy wanted to know how to say 'I wish you a merry Christmas' in the Elfin [sic] language. Tolkien replied that it was difficult to translate, since the Elves did not celebrate Christmas and therefore had no word for it. However, he wrote that there was an Elvish greeting which could be a substituted for 'I wish you a merry Christmas'. The sentence he gave read according to Michael Dawson:

meriu sa haryalye alasse nó vanyalye Ambarello, lit. "I hope that you have happiness before you pass from the world" (the latter part nó vanyalye Ambarello is said to be added when greeting a mortal).The Elvish year began in the spring rather than at Midwinter. See Appendix D which explains that the Elvish solar year (loa) began with the day called yestarë, which was the day before the first day of tuilë (Spring); and in the Calendar of Imladris yestarë 'corresponded more or less with Shire April 6'.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

I KNOW KUNG-FU and others:

In Finnish (on which elven language Quenya is based on) Yule is 'Joulu'.
I don't know where this word "Christmas" came, of course it refers to Christ's birth, though now mostly abbreviated by many non-Christians as X-mas, at least in cards. I wonder why Yule is not in wider use in the English speaking world too since Christmas has it's 'uncomfortable' Christian meaning for many.. but in my country we don't have such word, we have only this 'joulu'. And as far as I know 'joulu' doesn't have anything to do with Christ's birth or Christianity. (We Scandinavian pagans!!!) :)

I'm only a beginner in Tolkienology but I'm sure for the Shirelings Yule was just a midwinter celebration just as it in fact is for many people in the real world..

[jallan]

I wonder why Yule is not in wider use in the English speaking world too since Christmas has it's 'uncomfortable' Christian meaning for many.. but in my country we don't have such word, we have only this 'joulu'.Yule is most likely to occur in current English in the compound word Yuletide. Its occurence in some Christmas carols keeps it alive as a synonym for Christmas. Similarly French Noël often Anglicized as Nowell is also kept alive in the same way.

I suspect, however, to most English speakers Nowell and Yule are exactly synonymous with Christmas and there would be no recognition that Yule is an older pre-Christian name in origin. Similarly it is hardly noticed that Easter is a pre-Christian name also.

In such cases meaning is more important than etymology.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

Thank you jallan and Walter for the information about these words.
I have heard before that Christmas is a Christian replacement of the Roman Saturnalia and I've never checked it but I suspected that "Christmas" was an abbreviated form of "Christ's Mass". If we called Christmas that in my own language it would sound very strange: "Kristusmessu", though it probably could be possible to have that word in our language, if the language had developed a bit differently when Christianity was first introduced here....
This French word "Noël" is also very interesting, though I don't know its original meaning.

[Eledhwen]

On the abreviation X in Xmas

The X represents the Greek letter Chi which takes the form of an X, and is the beginning of the word "Christ". Tolkien used this same abreviation when sending letters from Father Christmas to his son Christopher (Xopher).

[Ireth Telrúnya]

Aber Christusmesse ist nicht ein Deutches Wort, "Christmas" ist nur Weihnacht auf Deutch? (and what is the actual meaning of Weihnacht? Consecrated Night?)
In Spanish it is "Navidad" and as far as I know, it means birth.
So, French have similar word...