The History of Middle Earth Volume III: The Lays of Beleriand

[baragund]

I'd like to start a running conversation on this volume of the HOME Series.

Why?

Because I started reading this the other day and even though I'm just a few pages into it, I'm REALLY enjoying it and I'm getting the sense that it is kind of a hidden treasure, even among Tolkien scholars (no pun intended :) ). Even though the lays retrace some of the key stories of the Silmarillion, they do so in such a way as to vividly bring the stories to life and give them a more human perspective as opposed to what can be viewed as the dense and dry prose of the published Silmarillion.

Now I am no fan of poetry. For the most part I find it too obscure and it's too hard to figure out what the Sam Hill the poet is talking about. But what I've read so far from the Lays is quite the opposite! The poetic techniques used make the images and the emotions of the characters just leap off the page! Well, it does for me anyway...

I was expecting the Lays to be a bit of a chore but it's turning out to be a delight, so I'd like to share this by reading through the book with a few other folks and talking about it as we go along.

Here's what I'd like to do. Read a few sections of the Lays over a week, say Monday - Friday, and then share our thoughts, opinions and questions over the weekend. Nothing terribly structured or involved... no writing of essays, no debates (I don't have time for that degree of involvement :( )

Interested? Depending on the level of response, we'll iron out the details of when to start, how much material to cover at a time and anything else that comes up. Otherwise, go dust off your copy of the Lays or go get one at your local bookstore or library (I bought a used hard-cover copy from Amazon for $10) and I'll talk at you soon! :)

[Beleg]

Great idea! I have recently re-started on HOME 3 primiarily for the Tale of Beren and Luthien and I am hooked.

[baragund]

Good deal, Beleg!!

How far have you gotten in the tale of Beren and Luthien? I'm about 25 pages or so into the tale of the children of Hurin. If you just started, then I'll catch up with you and we can go from there. If you are far into it, would you be willing to restart the tale of B&L or to start with Hurin?

Also, I expect this to be a 'leisurely stroll' through the Lays. I find I can only read a few pages at a time because the narratives in poetic form are so... um, concentrated. All the punch of a chapter of, say, LOTR is packed into one or two stanzas of the Lays.

[Lhunithiliel]

Ah! The poetic Lays!!!
I can only tell for now that when I read them that poetry made me!! :o into writing poetry! LOL Amazing! Isn't it! .. I mean the beauty of the poetry!
Enjoy it all the way through, Baragund! :)

[baragund]

Hi Lhun! :)

Would you care to join Beleg and me on this? I can't emphasize enough that this will be a low stress leisurely stroll through the Lays. We simply will read a few stanzas at a time and then chat about them... share our opinions, impressions, questions and the like.

Beleg,

If you would just which of the Lays you would prefer to start with, I'll begin. I'll go at, say, 5-10 page intervals, give a brief summary, share my impressions and ask for the thoughts of anyone else who cares to tag along.

[Beleg]

Right now I am on Line 300 of Lay of Leithian. But If you want I'll start from scratch against because I can't just get enough of the lays.
I agree with your scheme, baragund.
Infact, I am going to re-start it tonight. [In about three hours.]

[baragund]

The Lay of Leithian it is. Go ahead and restart. I'll read up to line 300 and we'll start our discussions. Lhun (or anybody else who cares to :) ) feel free to join in.

[Lhunithiliel]

Oh, baragund, thank you for the invitation!
Really, so much lately to do that those marvellous Lays may serve as taking away the pressure on my poor head.
If and whenever I can, I'll participate.

[baragund]

OK, let's get this show on the road. :)

I've reached to about line 200 of the Lay of Leithian. So far we have been introduced to the characters Thingol and Luthien, "King Morgoth" and Barahir's merry band of guerillas. (Apparently, the story begins after Dorthonion has been overrun.) We see Gorlim's betrayal of Barahir's group which Morgoth cheerfully rewards by murdering poor Gorlim. All of Barahir's group has been captured and/or killed except Beren.

Here are some of my observations so far.

Type of poetry chosen for the story: Tolkien selected the style of poetry for this Lay where each successive pair of lines rhymes. For a poem as long as this, this particular style may get a little tiresome and too 'sing-songy' after a while. I think I prefer the style that he chose for the Lay of the Children of Hurin, that relies on the rhythm of syllables instead of rhyming. This is a minor distraction however, and I'm enjoying the heck out of his descriptions that bring the story to life.

Description of Thingol and Doriath: I'm glad that the tale had evolved away from the rather rustic woodland kingdom Tolkien described in the original Tale from BOLT II into something consistent with what is described in the published Silmarillion. Also, thank God we have moved away from the 'primordial' names of the various characters. (Keeping those names straight drives me batty!! :eek: )

Account of Gorlim: Gorlim is a much more sympathetic character than I previously thought. If I recall correctly, he was a simple traitor in the published Sil and we had no idea what his motivations were. In the Lay, we find out he has a wife who he thought had been captured or killed. He is tricked by Morgoth by showing him an apparition of his wife. After being tormented by the image for days, he gives up Barahir's group to Morgoth, who rewards him by saying something to the effect "You want to join your wife, go ahead." and then slays the poor guy. The wife had been dead all along.

What are your thoughts so far? To make sure everybody (all three of us) stays together, I ask that you keep your remarks limited up to Line 200 (don't want to spoil what happens next for the rest of us!).

[baragund]

Now I've made it to the end of the 2nd Canto, about line 400. The main action here is the account of Barahir and his fighters being wiped out. Beren survives only because he is out in the woods by himself when Barahir's band is ambushed.

I found the account of Beren recovering his father's ring most interesting. The "bad guys" were encamped and their leader was thinking to himself how he would keep the ring for himself, that King Morgoth would never miss it. At that point Beren shoots the guy dead, takes the ring and escapes into the forest. Honestly, I found that turn of events pretty far-fetched. The account of Beren breaking into the enemy camp, wrenching his father's ring out of the dead orc's hand, and then somehow eluding capture or even engaging the rest of the group was not very believable.

Thoughts or comments? I hope this doesn't turn into a monologue! :confused:

[Goldberry]

I have the book, and would love to read and discuss it with the group. I'll try to catch up with you.

[baragund]

Welcome aboard, Goldberry! :) I'll be happy to wait a little while for you to catch up. I'm about 1/2 way through the third canto of the Lay of Leithian. Feel free to post your thoughts and commentary on this wonderful poem as you go along.

[Isthir]

I am planning on picking up at least the first 3-5 books of HoME today, and will gladly join in with the discussions as soon as possible.

-Isthir