The Meaning of Life

[Arvedui]

No, not the Monthy Python-film, but an attempt to introduce a difficult subject to all TTF'ers.

What do you believe is the Meaning of Life?

he reason for posting this topic is that I have often wondered what really the meaning of human life is?
We are born, then we grow up, and as we do so, we spend our time first in school, then working.
As time flies, some of us are so lucky that we meet someone we fall in love with, and get to spend a number of years with. Maybe we even experience the birth of our own children. We get a home somewhere, maybe a couple of cars, etc etc.
And still we spend more and more time at work, working to make money to pay for fodd and clothes, the home, the car(s) and the various things that we feel we need.
Then we grow old, retire, and after a number of years, we die.

Is that it? Is that all there is to be a living human being?

If it is, then all we do is to spend time and energy to stay alive along as possible, only to experience the inevitable death in the end anyway. And then there is no real difference between the Human Race and other living creatures, is there?

Do you have any thoughts on this matter, or is it too complicated?

----
This thread is open to all members of TTF, not only O-i-E'ers.
The only thing I ask is that you refrain from writing meaningless posts.

[celebdraug]

I use to think it was basically "to have fun", but recently, my views have changed...

Is that it? Is that all there is to be a living human being? No, its to make yourself like perfect being. The mistakes we make in life, we have to learn from them. You know your 'Karmas' (sp) its sort of trying to not get any more bad ones, and living in perfect peace and harmony.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

I guess this is a very complicated matter and can mean many things to different people. For example, some people can be happy in situations where some others are miserable. I remember some surveys done in the development countries that show that people are generally more happy than people in the industrialized countries though they don't have much material wealth.

[Sarde]

I think it is up to ourselves to decide what the meaning of our lives will be. I am not convinced that we can objectively determine the meaning of life. I tend to think that life is completely meaningless in itself and that it is up to us to give it meaning and purpose.

[Arvedui]

No, its to make yourself like perfect being.Why?
What's the point? Will my life be shorter if I am not? I don't think so.
But on the other hand, you and I may have a very different view on what a perfect being is.;)

(If I am starting to sound terribly depressed, I can assure you that I am not. I have two wonderful sons, am married to the most wonderful woman on the planet (I am not biased....), I have a job that I like very much, and my economy is sound.)

[Eriol]

There are two ways to look at this, "What is the meaning of human life in general?" and "What is the meaning of my life?"

As for the first question, I could say it is "to love". I'll leave it like that. I don't know if my musings on God and life interest you ;).

As for the second question, I like the definition of Viktor Frankl, a psychiatrist who studied survivors of concentration camps:

"The meaning of your life is something that only you, in the entire world, throughout the times, is able to do."

By the way, Frankl concluded that meaning is more important than anything else (including freedom) for survival. Man can't survive without meaning. That's not an empty phrase, it is the conclusion of his studies.

This stance reverses the question, as Frankl himself notes:

"Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible."

The meaning of my life is what I am called to do. My life is the answer to the question.

Another quote:

"Universal in its value, particular in its content, the meaning of life is found after a tenacious investigation in which the patient, with the help of the therapist, looks for an answer for the question: What is it that I must do and nobody, absolutely nobody else can do but me? The inherent duty of each life appears then as an imposition from the very structure of human existence. Nobody invents the meaning of his own life: each one of us is, as it were, hunted and beseiged by the meaning of his own life. It delineates and establishes in a given point of space and time the center of your personal reality, and from this knowledge surfaces, clear and inescapable, but visible only from the inside, the duty of each one."

I have some other musings on the meaning of death, if you want me to talk about them give me a call :D.

[Arvedui]

"Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible."

The meaning of my life is what I am called to do. My life is the answer to the question. But what does it mean, "being responsible?"
I can venture through life and just 'exists' if you understand me. I don't have to be responsible! In fact, I can live for 80 years and more, and never stand up for anything. I can exist my whole life and always agree with the speaker before me. And in the end, I might have lived longer than the next person, the one with all the opinions.

I know this is a completely impossible question to expect to be answered. It must be one of the oldest problems since Man climbed down from the trees in Africa, and yet noone have been able to give a plausible answer.
But I posted it anyway, as I thought it could be interesting to hear other peoples opinions, and perhaps have something interesting to debate instead of how cute Legolas is.

And I was thinking of the meaning of human life in general...

What life means to me is probably different from what life means to others. And that is one of the things that does it so wonderful to be a human being, isn't it? We can both have differing views, and discuss them. A lion can't do that.

[Eriol]

But what does it mean, "being responsible?"
I can venture through life and just 'exists' if you understand me. I don't have to be responsible! In fact, I can live for 80 years and more, and never stand up for anything. I can exist my whole life and always agree with the speaker before me. And in the end, I might have lived longer than the next person, the one with all the opinions.

And that would be the meaning of your life. It's an idea both profound and shallow, to realize that it is not us asking the question, it is life who asks us what is the meaning of our life.

As for the meaning of human life in general, I think we're here to learn how to love. I'm sure that this is a minority opinion, even if many pay lip service to love most people in reality look out for money or power or comfort or status or whatever. But that's my opinion.

In fact I'd say that the meaning of life in general, at a first moment, is to find out what YOU will answer to the question, and then to follow it. If one truly believes that the meaning of life is amassing wealth, then he should follow it. I think he would be wrong, and I think I could convince him of his error if I had the opportunity, but nevertheless if he is honestly trying to find meaning in life and to follow it then I (being an optimist) think he will find out the error for himself and realize that the main thing is to love.

What life means to me is probably different from what life means to others. And that is one of the things that does it so wonderful to be a human being, isn't it? We can both have differing views, and discuss them. A lion can't do that.

Yes :). The important thing is to use our ability to ask questions and go for the answers. If your answer is different from mine, let's enjoy our differences, and in the end they will be solved ;).

[Inderjit S]

I guess the most beautiful meaning of life is that we don't know what the actual meaning is, thus we are condemned forever to a eternal paradox. But seriously, since such things as the 'meaning of life' are intrinsically relatives from individual to individual there is no definitive answer.

What is the meaning of life for me? Well I'll be damned if I care. :D Sometimes conundrum’s are better left unanswered, IMO.

The meaning of _human_ life? To do as we will. Free will is the greatest thing in the world, true at times it can be twisted for evil purpouses, i.e greed etc. but a lot of the time good can spring up from evil.

Does the human race better the world? Hm...I'm not really sure about that. Maybe it would be better if we left the animal's to themselves without us interfering, polluting humans.

[Gandalf The Grey]

In fact, Camilla Unwin once asked this very question of JRR Tolkien, who wrote her in reply, on 20 May 1969, an excellent letter on the subject of "What is the purpose of life?"

You may see the letter in its entirety by clicking the following link:

A Letter to Camilla Unwin (http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com/A%20Letter%20to%20Camilla.htm)

A brief excerpt from the letter appears below:

...the chief purpose of life, for any one of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks. To do as we say in the Gloria in Excelsis: ...We praise you, we call you holy, we worship you, we proclaim your glory, we thank you for the greatness of your splendour." - J.R.R. Tolkien

[Sarde]

I'm afraid I don't agree with Professor Tolkien then.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

Of course that is the primary answer of any devouted Christian. Seeking God with all their heart as the Bible says.
This idea can be extended beyond the Bible and thus the meaning of life is the searching of the meaning of life, the truth behind the "rain curtain" of this existence. Exploring can be part of the truth, if there really is one.
And though it can be subconscious, but every human being continually searches for something through all their lives. There's allways something new we want and try to reach. Stopping the search would make life dull and boring. The searching has meaning in itself.

[Sarde]

Yes, searching for truth is something I could live with. :D It's just that I am not convinced that 'truth' means 'God'.

[Ireth Telrúnya]

I understand. Though who can really define what the word "God" means?
It is the most controversial word in human language.

[Celebthôl]

Just a thought (not what i believe by any stretch ;)). Maybe there is no meaning of life ;) maybe we just live, die and get forgotten about in the depths of time. Just a thought mind. ;)

[Ithilin]

In a way, I sometimes think the answer is simple: we're here to do our very best in everything, to do the right thing always, and to help eachother.

Of course everybody has differnt views on what "the right thing" is, but I think that most people deep down do want the same thing: to have peace.

Even though that is and should be our goal (no matter who you are), it will never be fully achieved until the end of time, so...

*I feel very tired* >.<

[Arvedui]

But where does this 'do our very best'-mentality come from?

What is the reason that I should do my very best at anything? As far as I know, I am under no obligations to do anything inparticular. From my point of view, this is something that we force upon ourselves. Like a good friend of mine use to say: " I don't 'have to do' anything!"

Isn't this my choice? If I don't want to do my very best at something, then does that mean that I do not understand the meaning of life? I don't think so...

[Eriol]

If doing nothing is what fulfills your heart, then by all means do nothing. It is up to you. If at the end of your life you'll look back and say that you were proud to have done nothing, then you have fulfilled the meaning of YOUR life very well.

I'd much prefer a life spent doing nothing than a life spent doing evil. If you are called to do nothing, that's fine.

The problem is when people refrain from doing what they are called to do because of fears or misgivings or any other problem. Then they fall short of the meaning of their lives -- and it is not we who'll say it, or God, it will be themselves who'll admit it at the end.

[Arvedui]

But who has the right to Call me to do something?

[Sarde]

That's an interesting question. I am by no means a religious person, but I do experience that I have a 'calling' in my life. I am called to do certain things, such as fight against the death penalty, fight for animal rights, become a teacher. Who is telling me that I should be doing those things? I think I'm just calling myself probably. :D

[Eriol]

But who has the right to Call me to do something?

Life.

"You do not find the meaning of your life, you are hunted and besieged by it."

[Arvedui]

I guess I can live with that answer.

I was afraid that you were about to suggest God.

[Sarde]

As far as I have yet experienced, Eriol does not call on God to support his statements, because he knows very well that many people do not accept God as an argument, and that they are not obliged to accept Him as such because He hasn't been proven to exist.

I appreciate that in you, Eriol. I hate it when people call on God to make their point.

[Arvedui]

As far as I have yet experienced, Eriol does not call on God to support his statements, because he knows very well that many people do not accept God as an argument, and that they are not obliged to accept Him as such because He hasn't been proven to exist.

I appreciate that in you, Eriol. I hate it when people call on God to make their point.And that is one of the reasons for opening this thread, also. Some people will say that what is preaced by their God, is the real meaning of life. But this can't be true, as you have just stated. This is of course also a contradiction. Some of us sincerely believe that our relationship with the Lord is a central piece in the meaning of our lives. But we must also accept that others have a meaning in their lives without believeing in any God. So I guess that what it comes down to is that the meaning of life is what each and every person put into it?

To your last point: Eriol have the wonderful ability to be able to have a personal belief without having to push it onto others.

[Eriol]

You could say I was not called to push my belief about God on you :D. It's not the meaning of my life. Also, God does fine on His own ;).

[Ithilin]

But where does this 'do our very best'-mentality come from?

What is the reason that I should do my very best at anything? As far as I know, I am under no obligations to do anything inparticular. From my point of view, this is something that we force upon ourselves. Like a good friend of mine use to say: " I don't 'have to do' anything!"

Isn't this my choice? If I don't want to do my very best at something, then does that mean that I do not understand the meaning of life? I don't think so...


In my humble opinion, I think that doing the right thing generally makes life easier. It comes from human experience.

I never said anyone was forced to do anything. (Of course, everything I say is in my opinion anyway, so it is my idea of "the meaning of life".)

[Sarde]

We may have different opinions on what 'the right thing' is in a given situation. For example, if someone places a cow in front of my nose, I would most likely hug it, whereas Eriol might turn it into beef. :D

[Eriol]

I think the beef is going to my head, I didn't have the good grace to thank you guys for the kind words.

*bashful*

Well, thanks :).

Er... I don't have much more to say right now. I'll go have some beef.

[Ravenna]

42!!


No I'm not really being facetious, honest :D

But I feel that this question of the meaning of life is very similar to Douglas Adams' 'ultimate question of life the universe and everything' a question that cannot be defined closely enough to get an meaningful, accurate answer, and therefore as in Adam's book, people can spend 10,000 years looking for the answer, only to realise that they don't really know what the exact question is.

Part of the problem lies in the fact that the 'meaning of life' as a concept in itself, means such wildly different things to every person depending on that person's own outlook on life.

You could go from the very simplistic view that we are here simply to perpetuate the species, to the concept that we are here in order to further the evolution of our species until we have evolved sufficiently to be able to meet our God face to face.

[Helcaraxë]

Well, let's examine the question. What is the meaning of life? By this do we mean, what is the purpose of life? I think life's meaning is inherent in life itself. The meaning of life is to live, to live in a way that is beneficial to all living things. Life can be thought of as a tapestry. It's purpose is to exist. If we ask the question: what is the intended purpose of life, than we must accept a conscious first cause of life. If we don't, or if we do not think that this is relevant, than life can have no external meaning, only meaning insofar as it is.

[Isthir]

Ah yes, a very good and touchy question indeed. I have many stand-points on this, but shall only state a few for the time being. The first would be that I believe heavily in Reincarnation. Now, one may ask, what is the point of Reincarnation? Simply to further our knowledge of life and perfect ourselves. Now, as to what end this brings one to, I know not for sure.....though I believe that our trueselves (soul) ascends to another way of life, to another plane of life as well. Furthermore, I believe that the world we live in is hell itself, yet with redemption in our grasp. Let me state here that I am very anti-organized religon, for every religon started with good intentions but has been manipulated by Man to their own devices. What does this first point have to do with the question? It answers it in an odd way, the meaning of life is to become perfect.

My second point would be that the meaning of life is to gather knowledge and to be benifical to others around us. If one cannot benifit a community of others and nature then there is no point to thier life, except one that is selfish and evil(in my eyes anyways).

These are just points of opinion from me, if any would like to speak further about religon, power, or anything that relates to them just hit me up.

-Isthir

[Theoden_king]

And still we spend more and more time at work, working to make money to pay for fodd and clothes, the home, the car(s) and the various things that we feel we need.


I don't have any quotes from philosophers or psychologists or anything fancy like that but this quote sums up what I think perfectly

"You won't find me working nine to five
it's too much fun being alive"

This is from a Sex Pistols song - Problems and I can't agree with it more. As far as I can see there is no point in working ridiculous hours at a job you don't like, and lets face it plenty of people do that and will keep doing it.

Work is a neccessity in todays life, I can't argue with that however much I disagree with it. I'm not saying I'd rather lie around all day doing nothing but I would prefer to (and plan to) work a job that suits me, where I get the time to do what I want and not have to go home and worry about work. A jobs just a job, at the end of the day you work for your own luxuries and thats fine for some people, only problem is they spend that much time at work they can't enjoy their luxuries.

I'd rather struggle to keep on top of all my finances doing a low paying job that I enjoy then being financially secure and dreading work daily.