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Aulė
03-30-2004, 12:04 PM
The Letters of JRR Tolkien
203 From a letter to Herbert Schiro1 17 November 1957

There is no 'symbolism' or conscious allegory in my story. Allegory of the sort 'five wizards = five senses' is wholly foreign to my way of thinking. There were five wizards and that is just a unique part of history. To ask if the Orcs 'are' Communists is to me as sensible as asking if Communists are Orcs.

That there is no allegory does not, of course, say there is no applicability. There always is. And since I have not made the struggle wholly unequivocal: sloth and stupidity among hobbits, pride and [illegible] among Elves, grudge and greed in Dwarf-hearts, and folly and wickedness among the 'Kings of Men', and treachery and power-lust even among the 'Wizards', there is I suppose applicability in my story to present times. But I should say, if asked, the tale is not really about Power and Dominion: that only sets the wheels going; it is about Death and the desire for deathlessness. Which is hardly more than to say it is a tale written by a Man!
What do you think Tolkien wrote as a fault of the Elves along with 'pride' (where is says 'illegible')?

Ignorance?
Nanciness? Wussiness? ;)

Ithrynluin
03-30-2004, 12:46 PM
Nice idea, Aulė. There are many more gaps like this we could try to fill.

As for the illegible word, I don't think ignorance would be it when it comes to Elves. I've never seen them as an ignorant people, perhaps a little bigoted when it comes to 'lesser' peoples like Men. I'd put arrogance or conceit as my guess.

Aulė
03-30-2004, 03:31 PM
Well they never seem to finish off their messes.

The Elves make the Silmarils and start all those wars with Morgoth, but they don't achieve anything. It is then up to the Valar to save the day, and afterwards the Elves sulk back to Valinor.
Then they create the Rings of Power, and end up relying on the Numenoreans and Gondorians to save the day in the Second Age. Whilst that's all going on, they sulk off to Valinor. And I'd like to add that the Elves of Ost-in-Edhil would have been wiped out bar for the efforts of the Dwarves of Khazad-dum. :)
Then the One Ring pops up again, and alas, they flee to Valinor, and leave the duties to some Hobbits and the Men of Gondor and Rohan.

The Elves never completely fixed a problem that they started, it was always up to the other folk to save the day whilst the Elves got to run away to their nirvana in Valinor. The others ended up with the raw end of the stick, and had to stay in Middle Earth (with the exception of the people of Elros).

The Hammers of Wrath were the ultimate Elf though. They used their skills to the fullest, feared not death, and never sulked off to Valinor. They sacrificed their lives to try and save Gondolin whilst the other wuss Houses hid within the walls of Gondolin. The forces of Morgoth were terrified of them, and if only the rest of the Elves were like Rog & co., then Morgoth may not have been so victorious in the wars up to the War of Wrath.

Eledhwen
03-30-2004, 04:26 PM
Intransigence, xenophobia, giggliness, prejudice.... usw

Inderjit S
03-30-2004, 09:43 PM
xenophobia? Hobbits and some Elves and Men were at least as xenophobic as any Dwarf.

Eledhwen
04-01-2004, 09:26 AM
xenophobia? Hobbits and some Elves and Men were at least as xenophobic as any Dwarf.Just trying to fill in the gap, Inderjit.