The future of GoT

[Lhunithiliel]

Dear GoT members,

I am opening this thread as my very last attempt to do something for the resurection of our Guild.

Think of this thread as the session of whole the community and here follow the points in the agenda":

1/ Who is still around?
2/ Why are you still around?
3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
4/ What to expexct for the future?
5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?

*********

Awaiting for your opinions :)

[Lhunithiliel]

I will be the first to give my own opinion on the above questions. ;)

1/ I am! :D ...... Still....

2/ Because I know what it took to build this place, I know what we used to do around here, I remember how much I enjoyed all the activities and the cooperation with so many wonderful people .... In one word, the memories of old times still keep me here ... as if I am expecting for those times to come back ... maybe, though, in new strength and maybe with a new "flavour" ;)

3/ Hmmm .... :rolleyes: You see....humans and human societies and communities have always had this need of a "strong hand" to run things around. And to run things, one is expected to most seriously take up responsibility. I realize that it is only a virtual community and it maybe not important to many... but in a virtual or in a real world - we are one and the same people! The serious way we run things in our RL should IMO be applied here as well.... Because... I don't know how you feel about it, but to me, you all are absolutely real people and not some ghosts! :p :D

4/ I don't know ... I might start expressing more my wishes .... But even so.... I'd expect the Guild to be resurected and to be re-organized if this is necessary (see p.5 below) ... But in any way, I expect it to be alive again and people to come back and enjoy being around as much as it was before.

5/ There has been an idea to make the Guild of Tolkienology the workshop for new ideas and projects dedicated to Tolkien's writings. I have been thinking a lot about this idea and the more I think about it, the more I like it! I definitely DO !!! :D

I would love to learn the opinions of the rest of you!

[Manveru]

1/ Who is still around?
i'm still here... (sorry for him, he's a little shy;))
2/ Why are you still around?
cause i don't have anything better to do :rolleyes: :p (c'mon... do i really have to answer this question?)
3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
inactive? what are you talking about? (who makes those questions?) look around, everyone, this place's breathing... feel it? yyyyhhmm... phuuuuu... see? *looks around anxiously* hey, where did everybody go?! :confused:
4/ What to expexct for the future?
a little more colorful future would be nice, some new faces around -- old ones are good, too :rolleyes: (i said once that i don't like crowd, but, hey... don't take my words too seriously... i mean, not all the time;))
5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
no objections... i must say (reading the "spring cleaning" thread) i liked that idea... as ithy (may i call you that, ithrynluin;)) and others said (and say it all the time, trust me, saw this in a few places) there's no point in discussing 'book-fora-type-questions' within the guilds (i know that everybody's welcome, but... some are really shy, trust me, i know sth about that; before i came to be a member here, i had been "afraid" as well to post anything on any topic -- still don't do this in other guilds: old habits die hard;)). guilds for projects, essays etc. yes yes and for the third time yes!
oh, and... ah, nevermind... all have been said already

keep this place alive!(trying to avoid capital letters...brr...creepy things;))
i don't mind the company of that wraith alone, but... how long can we whirl around... just two of us, eh? know what i mean?

:D

[Eledhwen]

1/ Who is still around?
me
2/ Why are you still around?
I like the Hall of Creative Endeavours.
3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
I think newbies might find the subsections difficult, as the 'browse' factor requires more work than on the rest of TTF
4/ What to expect for the future
I am more a writer/artist than a debater (though a skill in the latter certainly helps the former). This draws me to certain parts of the Guild more than to others.
5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
I am not sure I understand

[Lhunithiliel]

3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
I think newbies might find the subsections difficult, as the 'browse' factor requires more work than on the rest of TTF
What is different, El? :rolleyes: It is just like entering any of the TTF-fora. One comes in, looks through the threads, picks one up that might be of interest and... participate...IF wishes.

5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
I am not sure I understand
There was an idea to transform the guild into a workshop for projects related to various T-issues and topics. Like for example, the "Gallery of Characters", the "Study", the "Quiz" ....etc., unfortunately all of them dead now, but they could be revived all right if we wish so! In this way, it is not going to be a Guild any more in the previous understanding of what guilds on TTF were for...but sth. else and if this idea finds enough supporters, a lot of work is to be done in order to implement it, a new structure, a new organization.... a lot shall be changed in here if the idea is to be accepted.
It was an issue, discussed recently in the thread "Spring cleaning".

[Lhunithiliel]

1/ Who is still around?
i'm still here... (sorry for him, he's a little shy)
...Still waters, we say, are the most dangerous!!! :p

2/ Why are you still around?
cause i don't have anything better to do (c'mon... do i really have to answer this question?)
If you don't want to feel my "kindness"! :p
3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
inactive? what are you talking about? (who makes those questions?) look around, everyone, this place's breathing... feel it? yyyyhhmm... phuuuuu... see? *looks around anxiously* hey, where did everybody go?! :confused:
Exactly!!!
4/ What to expexct for the future?
a little more colorful future would be nice, some new faces around -- old ones are good, too (i said once that i don't like crowd, but, hey... don't take my words too seriously... i mean, not all the time)
5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
no objections... i must say (reading the "spring cleaning" thread) i liked that idea... as ithy (may i call you that, ithrynluin) and others said (and say it all the time, trust me, saw this in a few places) there's no point in discussing 'book-fora-type-questions' within the guilds (i know that everybody's welcome, but... some are really shy, trust me, i know sth about that; before i came to be a member here, i had been "afraid" as well to post anything on any topic -- still don't do this in other guilds: old habits die hard;)). guilds for projects, essays etc. yes yes and for the third time yes!
oh, and... ah, nevermind... all have been said already
... Go on... (now imagine me saying: Please! :D

keep this place alive!(trying to avoid capital letters...brr...creepy things)
i don't mind the company of that wraith alone, but... how long can we whirl around... just two of us, eh? know what i mean?

Eh, well... at least we have peacefully distributed the space, angel! You've taken the bright side and I - the darkness.... Hahaha :D ....
Tea, my dear? Meet me at .. whenever.... I'll keep the water boiling! :D

[Manveru]

...Still waters, we say, are the most dangerous!!! :p
as they say... you might even drown in a spoon...
If you don't want to feel my "kindness"! :p
say... hey, wait a minute... what?! (guess it's that wind in my ears:p)
... Go on... (now imagine me saying: Please! :D
got a huge imagination, wraith... beware :)
Eh, well... at least we have peacefully distributed the space, angel! You've taken the bright side and I - the darkness.... Hahaha :D ....
Tea, my dear? Meet me at .. whenever.... I'll keep the water boiling! :D
is the above some kind of your being "kind"? good try, really good one...

------
i could fool around for eternity (and a day...;)), but i guess it's not what this thread was meant for in the first place... *shuts up*

[Lhunithiliel]

Ah, Manveru! Good for you to make me laugh! :D

But, well, my friends .... is this all???

One.... two... three...

Only three of us left! :confused: :eek: :(

[Finduilas]

Let's see ....

Questions again,ha, Mum? :)

1/ Who is still around?

Well, here's the fourth one. :)

2/ Why are you still around?

Probably because my computer is clean at last and I want to see my NON-ghost ;) friends again! ...cause I really missed them... :o

3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?

I dunno....Mum pushes too haaaard.... heheh don't mind the whispers of the ghosts...;)...Just kidding, Mum!
Seriously, I'm not sure why it's not active. Lack of members? :rolleyes: :)

4/ What to expexct for the future?

Activeness....:P

The last question seems a bit difficult and it's now late (1 am) so I'll leave it for tomorrow. :)

Once again..
I've missed you guys!!! :)

[Eriol]

I'm still around too, and I'll answer all of the questions at once with a little 'speech'.

I don't think what we have here in our Guild (and the same goes for TTF generally) is something that will last for our lifetimes :D. This is sort of obvious. However, I suffer a lot (more than most people, believe me) when old relationships fade. I want to keep them alive, as much as the next guy.

The problem is, I have found (through experience) that one does not keep a relationship alive, of whatever kind (such as friendship, which is what we have here), by worrying about the relationship itself. This is why I rarely give any opinion in this kind of thread; I am doing it now because it is in our very own Guild :D, but I refrain from doing it (usually) when the same problem is being discussed on a TTF-level. The more people talk about it, the worst it gets (and I think this is at the root of many problems at TTF :().

The best way for us to keep this relationship alive in my opinion is simply to do what we like to do here in this Guild -- talk about Tolkien. Self-analysis, either on an individual or on a group level, is fruitless at best, and harmful in many occasions (I am thinking of TTF here, not GoT :)). Sure, people will come and go, and eventually I will go; it will happen even to Lhun :D. We can't prevent that, and most importantly, we shouldn't try to prevent that "artificially". To make a relationship worthwhile, we should make it... worthwhile. We should offer our best, and if that isn't enough, then we have given our best. And if we find out one day that the Guild is gone, it will be because we the people (I sound like a statesman :D) will have lost interest in it; and then it will be time for the Guild to be gone. Not before that; and therefore the solution is at hand.

I don't know if I'm being clear. I'm using a lot of words to say what is very clear to me -- let's talk about Tolkien (and if anyone wants to post a Lecture, the Lecture Cycle is still alive :D). Let's enjoy each other's company. Let's have fun from the ride while the ride's going on.

And whither then? I cannot say. The road goes ever on ;).

P.S. Nice to see you again Finduilas :)

[Lhunithiliel]

Super! Two more! :)

My dear Findi, I am glad to see you too! :) I wondered what has happened to you ... You and Manv have been for long the "living souls" of this place!
Good to have you back!

Sooooooo........... Let's see.... Who do we have present at the "session" for the moment ...
From a cold-blooded cynic (guess who :p ) to calm pacifists ... :p :D

I am not saying that I expect this community to last forever. As for going away... I have almost done so.... really forever! And I had good reasons to do so! ... But there is a certain special atmosphere here, that I can't find in any other place on the net. And I've missed it. Maybe because of the good memories of old times, maybe for some other reasons... but I've decided to make the last attempt.

I sort of "sensed" that most of you did answer the questions but were not pleased to do so. WHY ??? I am not wrong about this feeling! Am I again "pushing things"? And what if I do! I just don't want this community to have the same fate as some others on TTF. If it cannot last as it has been until now, then ... let's transform it ... keeping the most valuable achievements and go on!

In my opinion not only the activities themselves should take a new turn, but also the relations within the community. I think that one very important kind of relations to exist here is cooperation. Based on this, everyone involved in whatever activity, will enjoy it because he/she shall find a response!
There is a lot we can do based on good cooperation, I think. :rolleyes:

But ... we have also lost communication. We've stopped expressing what we'd like to undertake... or whether we're looking for other participants ... or what we're planning ... or what we'd like to see accomplished...
No communication! Sad.. isn't it!
So, communication perhaps should also be re-established.

As for friendship, etc..... these are good to exist... but they are relationships that cannot be "established" .... Such relations either exist or not, and the level they appear and develop on has nothing to do with what we actually do / or don't do within the GoT as an all-Tolkien-related-and-dedicated community.

Still, to me, the most important types of relations between the people within the guild are - cooperation and communication.... Ah! Well... understanding and tolerance should be added too!!! :rolleyes:

*******

Who's next, please! ;) :D

[Aulë]

1/ Who is still around?
Me, although I only joined the GoT the other day...
2/ Why are you still around?
I'm here because my old Guild (the almighty Periaur) is fading into nothingness, and I can't bear to part with the Guild-lifestyle- that 'family' type of feeling. When the Periaur was active, it felt like a family. When I joined the forum, it made making friends a lot easier. Since the Periaur 'family' has all but left the forum, I decided to emerse myself in a different group of people, and make new friends.
3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
Plain and simply- the lack of new members coming in. Most of the other Guilds have the same problem, along with the loss of their original members. The GoT has avoided being abandoned by hanging onto some of their members.
When the NLC movies came out, it attracted many people to TTF. People who had been enticed by the movies into reading Tolkien's works and wanted to learn more by talking to Tolkien loremasters such as Grond & co. Some of these people joined some of the Guilds at TTF to help out with this.
Unfortunately, these people have moved on to other things now, and those that have not left the forum, have in a way 'oversaturated' themselves in Tolkien's works, and now only linger in the forum as to stay with friends. And with very few people coming in, TTF is drifting back to pre-movie levels- in which there are not enough members to keep as many Guilds active.
4/ What to expect for the future?
Perhaps as the other Guilds are archived, some of their members will come here, as I did, and keep at least one Tolkien-related Guild active. Perhaps we could advertise yourselves to the remaining scholars in GoS, OiE and GotP, and ask them to join. And as there will be less new members joining TTF, we must try harder then ever to entice them to the Guilds. Try not to make it seem too overwhelming for them- have simpler activities for them to do. People who have only read LotR once or twice don't usually feel confident enough to write essays about it.
5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
If it is feasible, and supported by the Mods, I don't see why not.

[Manveru]

gee, that makes us... let me see (always fought off math:p): six? *counting again using fingers, carefully*;) yeah, six :)

what a progress...

:D

[Lhunithiliel]

gee, that makes us... let me see (always fought off math:p): six? *counting again using fingers, carefully*;)....
uhhh.... you mean... feathers .... Right?

yeah, six :)

what a progress... :D

You just look what's happening in the Apply Here - thread !!! :eek:

As Eomer was saying:

'These are indeed strange days ... 'Dreams and legends spring to life ...

[Finduilas]

Is Walter applying? :confused:

Oh, and if so, Mum, as Arvedui said, take it easy cause you may scare him away...:D:p ;)

[Lhunithiliel]

Is Walter applying? :confused:

Oh, and if so, Mum, as Arvedui said, take it easy cause you may scare him away...:D:p ;)
Yes, my sweety, he seems so... or at least he's considering the idea...

As for scaring him.... I doubt he would be scared by a "size7-red-colored-bold-typed" exclamation :p

[Manveru]

uhhh.... you mean... feathers .... Right?
well, wraith... i do have fingers (little, gentle etc. ... ask Mel if you don't believe;))
You just look what's happening in the Apply Here - thread !!! :eek:
oh my... considering this "wave" of new-old members, i'm thinking more and more about re-reading all my T-stuff again and again - till i pass out... if not i guess i will be in need of opening respective thread (in my head, of course:p) considering future of little blue feathered flying object in GoT:

- hey, Man, halls need some sweeping and dusting off... get your feathers back to work, creature...

being serious (i'll try): it'll be great to have such members around...

[Lhunithiliel]

Here are some observations and suggestions from a - formerly regular - visitor of GoT (now mostly "Watcher in the Walter") ;):
Note the change! :p

Another important thing would be the guild-leadership. Interesting and serious projects require some coordination, something that hasn't worked all too well at TTF in the past. The TTF Herald and FAQ are but two examles which demonstrate how important this issue is and how much room there is for improvement...

As much as I like G-G and apreciate his efforts to keep GoT alive and working, I nonetheless think that GoT needs a more "charismatic" leader-figure. Grond has been one, but Lhun even more so, IMO. The fact that she opened this thread should tell us how strongly she still feels for the guild. And from the responses here I get the impression she would still be very welcome as leader. I think she should - at least for a certain timespan - become guildleader again. For the more distant future I think that a council of three would be a better solution, but that requires further thoughts...

Hey, hey, HEY!!!! What is this heresy!!! :p :D

[Manveru]

As much as I like G-G and apreciate his efforts to keep GoT alive and working, I nonetheless think that GoT needs a more "charismatic" leader-figure. Grond has been one, but Lhun even more so, IMO. The fact that she opened this thread should tell us how strongly she still feels for the guild.
naaaaay... that wraith, when feeling bored, likes to stir the atmosphere in this place, make it more lively (as i do, and... every member, i believe;)) it's just that i (having never anything wise to say) just fool around the halls, but wraith... well, it's a different story, right wraith? :rolleyes:
And from the responses here I get the impression she would still be very welcome as leader. I think she should - at least for a certain timespan - become guildleader again.
a former boss... still a boss? hmm... *thinking hard* that's the real "cracker" for my little blue shiny brain :D

----------
EDIT: my internet seems to play some tricks or... i'm too distracted again :rolleyes: :D

[Finduilas]

Hmm...Mum...becoming The Mum again....? :rolleyes: Not sure if she will agree... :rolleyes:
But it's good she's here. :)

[Lhunithiliel]

Hey!

This thread is about something more important than leadership :D

Let's stick to the MAIN point.... Pweeezzzeee :D

Especially Question #5 !

*****

Creature of Light, do I seem bored?! :eek: ;) :p

[Scatha]

1/ Who is still around?
I am around, but have been busy with MERPG lately.

2/ Why are you still around?
GoT is the last of the guilds where I am still active, after having to close down by beloved GoE.

3/ What is wrong that makes the Guild inactive?
The entire board suffers from the lack of activity, not just the GoT.

4/ What to expexct for the future?
Read the post made in here by Walter.
A lot of the work of tolkien has been discussed in some thread here on TTF and the current members remember those threads. So there's little use in restarting a discussion you already had. That is what is going on at the moment, sadly enough.

5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
You might try, but I don't think it will change much in regards of the activity. TTF is at a slow point right now, which will eventually pass.

[Lhunithiliel]

4/ What to expexct for the future?
Read the post made in here by Walter.
A lot of the work of tolkien has been discussed in some thread here on TTF and the current members remember those threads. So there's little use in restarting a discussion you already had. That is what is going on at the moment, sadly enough.
True, but ... I wouldn't like to think that ALL the issues arising from Tolkien's writings have allready been discussed. And what is more, some of the already existing projects have a tremendous potential for further development. I see some of them as a wonderful opportunity for everyone - novice as well as loremasters to participate and cooperate side-by-side!

5/ Shall we transform the activities of the Guild directing them to the specialized area of developing all-Tolkien-related projects ?
You might try, but I don't think it will change much in regards of the activity. TTF is at a slow point right now, which will eventually pass.
Why using the pronoun "you", my friend? ;) It would've sounded so much better using "we"! :)

Activity, you know, sometimes resembles a capricious little child :) One wants it to be good, one has to find the right approach! This is what we are looking for, right?

[Scatha]

Why using the pronoun "you", my friend? ;) It would've sounded so much better using "we"! :)


Do you see anyone else in here that is leading this guild? GG isn't here it seems and the guild needs a firm hand. Sorry Mum, but 'you' fits the bill.

[Lhunithiliel]

Do you see anyone else in here that is leading this guild? GG isn't here it seems and the guild needs a firm hand.
Oh! I must've misunderstood you.... thinking that you meant you ... without me(Scatha) :p :D

Sorry Mum, but 'you' fits the bill.

Oh, Eru!!! Iluvatar and ... the gang.... Now I have one son more !!! ....
Boy, I feel so old! :mad: :rolleyes: :p

[Lhunithiliel]

We could fool around, and other people will be most welcome to still answer the above 5 questions, but what I intent to do is to submit to your attention my concept on Q5 soon.
It will be good if some of you, too, think about doing the same.

[Eledhwen]

(re: Walter's comment)
Hey, hey, HEY!!!! What is this heresy!!! :p :DUnless G-G is a god, and not just a king, I think it is merely treason. Does that carry a lesser penalty?

[Lhunithiliel]

Unless G-G is a god, and not just a king, I think it is merely treason. Does that carry a lesser penalty?

Treason it could've been if I lusted desperately for becoming a Guild-master again.

Well, I don't!

Besides, in the light of the possible changes concerning the guilds on TTF, I think this community is not going to need any GM, as it might very well not be called a "Guild" at all !!!

[Finduilas]

Hehe...

Wraiths are supposed to be pesimists....,right? ;) :p

And yet the current situation doesn't need a GM..but only now!
Soon, when the GUILD is revived, our GM will step in force again..:)

[Lhunithiliel]

As I promised, here are my views on the future of GoT.

I don't know why I am doing this! :rolleyes: :p

Anyway...

************************

There is an obvious need in changing the whole concept of the guild and its activities.
Until present (or rather, until recently) the guild, just as all other guilds, has been a place where a community has gathered - a community of people, obviously sharing common interests and also (and not least!) friendly relations, thus enjoying being together. This, of course, is a wonderful thing, but any community may fall apart if the people in it find no commonly shared activities.
Activities the GoT has developed a lot and of a various kind - discussions, debates, creative endeavours... And it has been fun!
Obviously, however, this form of existence and activity has consumed fully its potential.
Therefore, it is time for a change!

Now... Try to imagine the GoT as a house ;) It has its entrance hall and three large halls inside.
At the moment, the lobby, as well as the halls, are "furnished" with lots of threads. When I reorganized the Guild's space into what it is now, I did that on grounds of the old-existing concept of what a Guild should be.

Now, when it is necessary to change things, here is what I think is to be done:

First of all, the GoT should become the place for designing, developing and in most cases "exporting" to the all-TTF space projects - all Tolkien-related in topics and content.

All these "halls" should be cleared, renamed and re-organised in conformity with the new concept. Further, each "hall" should have its own Administrators who will organise the respective activities in their hall.

How?

The lobby:

It will be the place for threads of organizational matters. Leave this to me, Scatha and Finduilas! ;)

the Noldorin Forge: (it may be renamed)

The place for Debates - projects. I think that the trinity ;) - Gil-Galad, Eriol and Aule will be perfect Administrators of that place!

the Library of the Istari: (again, may be renamed)

The workshop for Study & Research - projects. I think that another "devine" ;) trinity - Walter, Inderjit and Arvedui, is the very right choice for administering the place!

The Glittering Caves:

Place for Creative endeavours - projects. I think that Eledwhen, Manveru and Gandalf the Grey (if he wishes) will be the very right people to administer this Hall.

************************

This is the draft of my ideas. I of course, hold in my mind a lot of other details, but these are not on the agenda now .

I would appreciate all and any comments, criticism and .. most of all, OTHER concept-views!


Wraithfully yours! ;) :)

[Lhunithiliel]

Thank you so much, M'L! :)

Now...... ***scratching her head****...

They do differ - our two concept,but that's wonderful, because this is how it should be!

The only comment I'll do concerns the following:


I have not considered an area for debates within the Projects Area, because they - like the RPG - IMO deserve an entirely separate area which btw. already exists: TTF Debating Society).
Yes, the Debating Society does exist, but my idea was GoT (or whateve the name) to design new tournaments and "export" them to that place where the project will be actually implemented.

The same idea of "exporting" activities into the TTF-space, once they have been thoroughly thought of and organized, refers to all other sections.
This however, does not mean that inside the Project Area there are not going to be actively working activities, apart from the "creation" activities.

I very much hope our two concepts are to be followed by others and/or comments. :)

[Eriol]

My first impression was that Walter's scheme was the better one, but this last post of Lhun was quite convincing... I really like the idea of an area devoted to the study of the books from an internal point of view, where the infamous argument "it's how the author wanted to write it, so that's it" would be banished :D. That's what I find most attractive in Walter's conception.

So tag me "undecided". Like Aragorn at Parth Galen, I may need a little time to "cast a vote" if this is eventually needed, but I hope we may have the best of both conceptions in the final result. I'll think about that too.

[Manveru]

The Glittering Caves:

Place for Creative endeavours - projects. I think that Eledwhen, Manveru and Gandalf the Grey (if he wishes) will be the very right people to administer this Hall.
feel honoured to be set amid such names... will be an honour (i wonder how will they endure with me? :rolleyes:, if so)
The Lobby: The area for project-coordination, maintenance, general project related discussion (as well as some threads just for the sake of having fun)
i would sign under it (the bracket, of course:p ;)) even with three or four pairs of hands...

not too many comments (and not so thoughfully deep as others), but...
i know others will do them better... i just don't feel like matching with anybody on the terms of books (slowly starting to forget what they were all about;)). both, Lhun and Walter's, "presentations" seem good... just melt them to be even better :p

[Lhunithiliel]

But the "Project Area" IS TTF-space, so why "export" anything anywhere within TTF?
I know, I know... But this is what the old guild concept was most criticised for - holding INside the good topics and activities. This happens to have prevented "shy" people from participating in them ( :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: no comment :p ), so I'm thinking of a way out.

Originally Posted by Walter
The Lobby: The area for project-coordination, maintenance, general project related discussion (as well as some threads just for the sake of having fun)

i would sign under it (the bracket, of course ) even with three or four pairs of hands...
Me too! :D .... But ... Wait!!! That's what I said too!!! Why give all the credits to that Renegade Gentleman!!! :p :D

And .... Mariner, no need to vote!!! The best thing to hapen will be to have a few more ideas like mine and Walter's and to eventually pick up the best from all of them and decide the final structure and strategy. Right? :)
So ....
How about a project of yours? ;) :D

[Eledhwen]

I'm reading all this with great interest, though without any worthwhile suggestions of my own to make. Watch this space ... you never know!

I'd be happy to help administer the 'caves'.

[Finduilas]

Mum, I'd gladly accept the responsibility you have chosen for me...;):). Thank you. I'm in...:D

True, it's really hard to come up to new suggestions after reading all these great ones..so here's something mixed up : :)

The Lobby :
"The area for project-coordination, maintenance, general project related discussion (as well as some threads just for the sake of having fun)" ..in other words "organisational matters". ;)

The Noldorin Forge:

-First Subhall : The place for discussing Tolkien's works.
-Second Subhall : The place for debating on Tolkien's works.

The Library of the Istari:

-First Subhall : The place for discussions on terms of Tolkien as a man, writer, professor, etc.
-Second Subhall : The place for debates on Tolkien's life, conceptions, etc.

The Glittering Caves:
The area for "Creative Endeavours".

That's it.
I guess it's like a compromise...Don't know...you decide. That was from me.:)

[Scatha]

The lobby:

It will be the place for threads of organizational matters. Leave this to me, Scatha and Finduilas! ;)



I would be honoured. :D No matter in which form it would end up.

[Lhunithiliel]

I understand that this is where your heart is, but on the other hand there are few people around on TTF who are so well read in Tolkien's non Middle-earth writings and have such a wealth of knowledge about Tolkien, the man...
But, Walt, the person to administer a Hall will never be restricted to participating in absolutely all and any activities in all and any other Halls!

Scatha, El, thank you ! :D

It would be wonderful to read your detailed opinions and why not your own projects!

Findi, my fair, I appreciate your input!! However, please, let me say that IMO, debates, no matter what their topic is, should be organised and kept in a separate space.

In other words, letting too much diversity of activities in one Hall may lead to chaos.

[Lhunithiliel]

This was not what I was hinting at. IMO Eledhwen should administer the Librari of the Istari (or whatever this section will be called that deals with Tolkien, the man, his non-M-e writings, history, mythology, etc.)...
Ah... Yes... the misunderstanding must have come from the slightly different aproach of our two concepts ... I see...
Still, when it comes to electing the administrators of the halls I think each one of them shall have to provide good evidences to show ability and willingness to do the job as well as their serious commitment to the cause. ... When it comes to that point.... :cool: :)

[Manveru]

i know i look so, but... i'm not that serious (believe me :p)

so...

when it comes to that point... as i said earlier, it's an honour to me to be counted among the great three (tho, i don't know why, wraith... i'm just a good soul in the creative endeavours' hall, nothing more), but don't think, reading the last two posts, that i'm the man (angel or anything else) for the place (maybe i just didn't understand all the info gathered there, yeah, that could be it :rolleyes: )

but...

i'd be more than happy if i could help in anything (except for being a "ruler" in the caves... no, it's not for me). El, IMHO, is the best choice you could ever come up with... reading her endeavours makes me feel like an apprentice having a loooooooooot to learn (which is good, i can get in touch with such creative "force";))

and, to end this post, i've never come up with a good idea, so...
i can only guarantee commitment to the cause (maybe not so serious, but true... to the last breath)

[Aulë]

Still, when it comes to electing the administrators of the halls I think each one of them shall have to provide good evidences to show ability and willingness to do the job as well as their serious commitment to the cause. ... When it comes to that point.... :cool: :)Hmmm....I can't think of any previous instances on TTF where I have shown my ability to run large scale debate competitions....;) You might have to give that job to someone else then. :p

[Inderjit S]

Thanks for nominating me for the Lib. of the Istari section. I would be honoured to join in. :)

[Lhunithiliel]

Hmmm....I can't think of any previous instances on TTF where I have shown my ability to run large scale debate competitions....;) You might have to give that job to someone else then. :p
Hold it, Vala... Hold it!.. Still there is time until we reach "that" point!
...

BTW, what large debate competitions are you talking about? :rolleyes: :p
***

Angel, will you stop doubting my assessments ?!!! ;) :D

Inder, thank you for being here!!! I'm wraith-dead serious! :D

Gentlemen, I think it would be wonderful to learn about your opinions, too!

[Scatha]

The lobby:

It will be the place for threads of organizational matters. Leave this to me, Scatha and Finduilas! ;)

the Noldorin Forge: (it may be renamed)

The place for Debates - projects. I think that the trinity ;) - Gil-Galad, Eriol and Aule will be perfect Administrators of that place!

the Library of the Istari: (again, may be renamed)

The workshop for Study & Research - projects. I think that another "devine" ;) trinity - Walter, Inderjit and Arvedui, is the very right choice for administering the place!

The Glittering Caves:

Place for Creative endeavours - projects. I think that Eledwhen, Manveru and Gandalf the Grey (if he wishes) will be the very right people to administer this Hall.



The Lobby: The area for project-coordination, maintenance, general project related discussion (as well as some threads just for the sake of having fun)

The Noldorin Forge: The area for projects dealing with Tolkien's sub-creation from an internal point of view (i.e. gathering all material about the Origin of Orcs).

The Library of the Istari: The area for all projects dealing with Tolkien, the man and creator of Middle-earth, as well as for projects comparing Tolkien's Legendarium with other myths, legends and real history.

The Glittering Caves: The area for "Creative Endeavours".


The two quotes above taken into a single idea, is what seems the most logical way to set this up. That would lead to the following:

The lobby would still remain the area for organisational matters and things like "getting to know the guild".. for us all to enjoy.

The Noldorin forge will be the project area, whether it be large or small scale, or the setup of a debate. (which will be hosted in the debating society)

The library shall be the place for study and research, as a library should, concerning everything that revolves around Tolkien.

The glittering caves, aka creative endeavours, for the making of artwork, poetry, writing, etc. (I may even pop in there on occasion to post some stuff.) ;)

This is what makes the most sense to me, everything neatly organised and clearly defined. Areas for all the guildmembers to enjoy themselves in. :)

[Manveru]

see, see? haven't i told you "mixing" would be the best idea...? maybe we could add some more liquids to the mixture, eh? this place will be a whacko center, i assure you...

--------
and, wraith, don't you already know i can't... i mean, it's all in nature... the light fighting off (or rather "teasing") the shadow :p :D

[Inderjit S]

regarding the noldorin forge and the library:

Will it over-lap with the Noldorin Forge? And will we be dealing with things such as the origins of Orks, Noldorin histories etc.? 'Everything that revolves around Tolkien' is a pretty broad spectrum.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'll leave to Walt the comments. ;) :)

Meanwhile, let's come up with a few ideas on startegy.

I mean, the structure of the place will soon be polished, and with the help of a Mod (or two ;) ) we'll make it work.
But have you noticed that in the "business" of administering the respective halls are involved almost all the presently active people? Of course these are to and [b]will]/b] participate (... I hope :rolleyes: ) in the projects, but what about other people?
How shall we attract others to participate?

[Manveru]

Meanwhile, let's come up with a few ideas on startegy.
...this column to the chariot. this column stay with me... oops, guess i've galloped myself too far ;)
But have you noticed that in the "business" of administering the respective halls are involved almost all the presently active people? Of course these are to and [b]will]/b] participate (... I hope :rolleyes: ) in the projects, but what about other people?
naaay, really? :rolleyes:
How shall we attract others to participate?
how about hanging around, silently, half-asleep, in a thin shadow (like wraiths do), feeling this gentle smooth haze spreading hither and thither, engulfing everything in sight and... seize them, one by one, trap them, cram them in a big brown shadowy sack... then, as they become a little more willing (to co-operate = participate :p) promise them (lightly, of course;)) freedom of choice (muahaha, that was good, need to write it down :D) and so on and so forth...

or...

we could simply change places... i could do some scholarly speech about, hmm, let me think (yeah, right) and Walter or Inder could write a poem...

there's always a way out...

any other napoleons here?

[Finduilas]

The lobby would still remain the area for organisational matters and things like "getting to know the guild".. for us all to enjoy.

The Noldorin forge will be the project area, whether it be large or small scale, or the setup of a debate. (which will be hosted in the debating society)

The library shall be the place for study and research, as a library should, concerning everything that revolves around Tolkien.

The glittering caves, aka creative endeavours, for the making of artwork, poetry, writing, etc. (I may even pop in there on occasion to post some stuff.) ;)

This is what makes the most sense to me, everything neatly organised and clearly defined. Areas for all the guildmembers to enjoy themselves in. :)

Hey, don't you forget something...?;)

M & M Love Nest:
The nest between earth and sky....;) :p

[Lhunithiliel]

how about hanging around, silently, half-asleep, in a thin shadow (like wraiths do), feeling this gentle smooth haze spreading hither and thither, engulfing everything in sight and... seize them, one by one, trap them, cram them in a big brown shadowy sack... then, as they become a little more willing (to co-operate = participate :p) promise them (lightly, of course;)) freedom of choice (muahaha, that was good, need to write it down :D) and so on and so forth...
Just hear him! An "Angel" speaking such things ... like a creature of the Holy Darkness!!!
Oh! Melkor!!! Don't I adore corrupting !!!! :p :D

or...

we could simply change places... i could do some scholarly speech about, hmm, let me think (yeah, right) and Walter or Inder could write a poem...

You might be surprised with the outcome of this challenge, Dark Angel!!! ;)

And... pray... how come that the "love-nest"-issue appeared here? :rolleyes:

[Melian]

A voice from the forest shadows:...Dare not call him Dark Angel! (muahaha).... ;)
Go on, people, feels nice as you discuss the Future of the Guild...me ignorant one...will just remain shy and silent and agree with anything the wise guys say.... :)

-----
btw. What nest?! :p

[Lhunithiliel]

So... what have we come up to? :rolleyes:

Is it time to draw the line? As Walt says, we shall need the "blessing" of the WM and the assistance of the Mods... All right...
But then I guess we shall have to come up with a well structured "statement" in front of the TTF authorites, so that they could know what our point is .

Walt, will you please write such a statement? :)

Another thing.... So far we have talked about the general structure and activity.
I'd like to invite you to share your views on particular activities within the respective Halls.

[Arvedui]

If you want to reorganize the content of the Guild, then you need an admin (Beorn, ReadWryt or dapence). Mods can't do those things. If there are other cleaning that you think ought to be done, then just tell me and I'll take care of it.

(Just be careful. The last time I cleaned a Guild, it ended in the Archives...;) :D )

[Manveru]

Another thing.... So far we have talked about the general structure and activity.
I'd like to invite you to share your views on particular activities within the respective Halls.
i guess Caves will stay as they are... peace and quiet... silence so thick that one can almost touch it (grr, wrong txt;):p) activities should stay the same (what exactly are they like?). if somebody feels inspired, welcome! welcome! pics, poems and other "written-word-delicacies" :) i don't think these halls may be "active" 24/7, but... so they will still roam their own pace...

what about the rest? hmm, let me think... i've been there very very very rarely (esp. scholarly stuff) so, let others (wiser :confused: ) speak...

*hangs in the air*

[Lhunithiliel]

If you want to reorganize the content of the Guild, then you need an admin (Beorn, ReadWryt or dapence). Mods can't do those things. If there are other cleaning that you think ought to be done, then just tell me and I'll take care of it.
Whenever I see the use of so many p.pr.2-nd prsn.,sing/pl. I lose hope! :(

***********

Manv, a good try! :-) And I think that you are right... The only thing that would be wonderful to witness is how the Administrators make the place alive by bringing in new people and developing the already existing activities, as well as designing new ones.

Any more suggestions in 1-st prsn.? ;) :D

[Lhunithiliel]

I shall do so in due time...
***bows*** Thank you, M'Lord! :)

That is about what I was going to suggest now: Y'all - no wait ... I mean ... we :D - should start collecting suggestions for interesting research projects ...
Call me "biased" ;) :) , but as lately I'm under the impression of my first meeting with H.C's biography of Tolkien, I think that I'd find it most interesting to be involved in an in-depth study on how Tolkien's life gave birth to Tolkien's mythology - this involving the a.m. source + the Letters.

... Where could it be placed, "usher" Walt? ;) :D ....

A note aside - I will never be able to look with the same eyes on the Aldarion-Erendis - story, after reading the H.C.'s book on Tolkien's life! ;) :)

[Manveru]

Manv, a good try! :-) And I think that you are right... The only thing that would be wonderful to witness is how the Administrators make the place alive by bringing in new people and developing the already existing activities, as well as designing new ones.
hmm, artists, to me (well, i don't feel fully as one, but maybe... someday:rolleyes: ), seem like people who don't like "restrictions" much, so...
Any more suggestions in 1-st prsn.?
i... i... i'd better shut up ;) no? okay:

just a few more words about the caves... looking thru all the threads (still doing so) i find that there are similar threads at TTF, i.e. there are quite few activities for writer-types (yay:p): isn't that taking potential "souls" from one another again?! threads like Tolkienolgoist's Creative Endeavors Hall! and Poetry are alike... Event Game is almost a twin sis of More Riddles In The Dark (adore both of them, btw) and so on and so forth... until... nobody knows when...

so...

i started thinking (yeah, you heard me) of the purpose (*ouch* Mel's going to kill me for that) of the caves... maybe that is why they're a little "deserted"?? (i don't believe there aren't any artist around, c'mon...) people, looking for an exact thread, usually take short-cuts, cos, where does one seek activities for writers (for example)?? in the writers' guild aka prouncing pony (yeah, i saw our members there--me, don't go too often: terribly shy:rolleyes: ) Grond's Design Pit & still young The Gallery of Character-Drawings! seem like a "refuge" for the archived guild of artists (that's good, come...) are we going to be the reason for closing the prouncing pony?? (don't look at me like that, writers :eek: i'm not against you... don't even like thinking of this idea)
i'm thinking (a long thought, you know)... isn't that the same "problem" as with those book-fora-stealing-threads-or-sth?? those "shy" members of TTF don't feel easy enough to come within the halls of any guild?? so, how can we make them come and participate?? (c'mon, nobody bites in here...save for that wraith--Lhun, do sth with that blood;))
i'm thinking... is it "readable" up to --> here?? it is? goodie :D thx you wanted to dedicate some of your precious time to read this... anything interesting?

well, it wasn't so BIG a problem up to now (participation in the caves, of course--peaceful place, excellent for artists:p), so, maybe i just strain my fingers for nothing writing this post... i don't know... you judge.

Manv (phew! that was a long one)

[Arvedui]

Whenever I see the use of so many p.pr.2-nd prsn.,sing/pl. I lose hope! :(
Oh, women! :rolleyes: :D
Although I am not able to understand what you are writing, I think I understand your meaning. Please forgive, I am not familiar with the use of "we" when typing in the GoT, yet. Still an O-i-E'er by heart, I guess.

BTW, when looking for details to complain about, did we notice the message in what I wrote?

[Lhunithiliel]

(c'mon, nobody bites in here...save for that wraith--Lhun, do sth with that blood ;))
Is this look OK ;) :D :D

[Scatha]

A little too innocent.... and this dragon is getting hungry. *licks muzzle*

[Finduilas]

Mum? Biting? ... What's this??!!!! :eek:
Our friendly wraith biting?! ...hey!...Don't be stupid... ;) :p
Btw, Mum, congratulations on your new avatar...;)

As for the discussion here...well, if there're more artists' threads maybe more and more shy members will overcome their shiness....;)...after all, in so many threads they will not feel so observed.. :rolleyes: :p

[Manveru]

Is this look OK ;) :D :D
what's that :eek: :eek: :eek: disgusting :p

---------
(is that a little martenitzi (or whatever you call it) around its neck?)

[Finduilas]

(is that a little martenitzi (or whatever you call it) around its neck?)

One visit and already a bulgarian..? ;):D
Yes, martenitza, exactly! :D

"Martenitzi" is actually in plural and "martenitza" - singular. ;) But we'll forgive you..;) :p

[Manveru]

well, actually i got one, but... some girl made me hang it on some blossoming tree (what for, i don't know :p)
:( got used to it a little...

oh, and thx, i feel much much better now, little one ;)

[Eledhwen]

Whenever I see the use of so many p.pr.2-nd prsn.,sing/pl. I lose hope! :(Not least, I suspect, because in modern English one can't tell whether it is singular or plural - not even a capital letter to help out. One might end up agreeing to some collective task, only to find that it was actually a one-man job - yours!

I have never heard of a martenitza. What's it for?

[Lhunithiliel]

I am pleased that my new looks please you... it seems so...
Bah! Enjoy it a day more, before I show my true face again!!! :p :D

Now... back to the topic of the thread.

I think that each section of the future All-Tolkien-Project Realm (or whatever the name will be) should have a special thread where participants and Administrators shall submit and discuss the topics of the projects.

But ... in advance, here's a challenege to the "Endevourers" dwelling in the "Caves" :
"Complexity of writing skills vs. complexity of a character in Tolkien's books - does it exist?" ;)

Enough of having fun, dreamy artists! :p :D

There's sth. else. The new place IMO should not only change in structure,, but also in purpose. Otherwise it will be just the same Guild and even though discussions and activities INside will bring satisfaction to the members, the "problem" with the guild being "closed" will still stay.

So..... I see two possible roads to take:
1/ The Guild turns to a work-shop for T-related topics of discussion, research, study etc. and after all details have been cleared and the respective organization ensured, the respective activity goes out to a respective section of TTF thus becoming open for participation of all and any.

2/ The Guild turns to a T.C.B.S. or 'Inklings" - club where those, who seek for serious and in-depth T-related stuff may gather and enjoy all-T-related (and not only!) discussions, research, study etc. .

Which one do you prefer?

**************

The "martenitsa"-topic, please let it go to the Melting Pot. .... beeeee... :p

[Manveru]

I have never heard of a martenitza. What's it for?
still wanna know? check the last post (by our beloved Maia) on this page (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?t=9789&page=1)
But ... in advance, here's a challenege to the "Endevourers" dwelling in the "Caves" :
"Complexity of writing skills vs. complexity of a character in Tolkien's books - does it exist?" ;)

Enough of having fun, dreamy artists! :p :D
say "what"?! :eek: :confused:

she... she knows how to spoil all the fun... now, nobody will come out there :p

[Finduilas]

...or we may transfer the topic a bit...artistically...;)

Use your writing skills and sense of characteristic and create something Tolkish......;):p

[Arvedui]

There's sth. else. The new place IMO should not only change in structure,, but also in purpose. Otherwise it will be just the same Guild and even though discussions and activities INside will bring satisfaction to the members, the "problem" with the guild being "closed" will still stay.

So..... I see two possible roads to take:
1/ The Guild turns to a work-shop for T-related topics of discussion, research, study etc. and after all details have been cleared and the respective organization ensured, the respective activity goes out to a respective section of TTF thus becoming open for participation of all and any.

2/ The Guild turns to a T.C.B.S. or 'Inklings" - club where those, who seek for serious and in-depth T-related stuff may gather and enjoy all-T-related (and not only!) discussions, research, study etc. .

Which one do you prefer?

Personally, I (1. p, sing.) prefer option #2. The reason for this is that it might very well be that GoT will be the only Guild left standing after the spring-cleaning operation. And with the removal of O-i-E and GoSH, it is the only remaining Tolkien-addicted Guild (may the Periaur forgive me ;) ).
If that is so, then the GoT should be a place for those details that does not belong naturally in the book-section or author-section.An example from the top of my head is 'The Study'.
This way, TTF could have a specific place for those in-depth 'things'.

Just my 2c

[Lhunithiliel]

...or we may transfer the topic a bit...artistically...;)

Use your writing skills and sense of characteristic and create something Tolkish......;):p
Aaaaah... no, no, my little one! :D That's not gonna work this way!

Here is another "fun" topic for the writers and lingusts: "Quenya is called the Elf-Latin. So, how much Latin and how much Finnish is there in it?"

Oh! Here is a truly good one!: "Etymology of names in Tolkien's Legendarium"

....or .....why not: "Tolkien's prose is said to be poetry. Can we prove it?"

Mwuahha... OOOPS! ...beeeeeeeeee ......... :p

[Finduilas]

Aaaaah... no, no, my little one! :D That's not gonna work this way!

Here is another "fun" topic for the writers and lingusts: "Quenya is called the Elf-Latin. So, how much Latin and how much Finnish is there in it?"

Oh! Here is a truly good one!: "Etymology of names in Tolkien's Legendarium"

....or .....why not: "Tolkien's prose is said to be poetry. Can we prove it?"

Mwuahha... OOOPS! ...beeeeeeeeee ......... :p

Mum....? I think you finally spoiled it...the fun...:(
Bad wraith... :mad:
;):p

We'll make a new "corner" and fence it with Melian's blessing...;):p:D

[Scatha]

Personally, I (1. p, sing.) prefer option #2. The reason for this is that it might very well be that GoT will be the only Guild left standing after the spring-cleaning operation. And with the removal of O-i-E and GoSH, it is the only remaining Tolkien-addicted Guild (may the Periaur forgive me ;) ).
If that is so, then the GoT should be a place for those details that does not belong naturally in the book-section or author-section.An example from the top of my head is 'The Study'.
This way, TTF could have a specific place for those in-depth 'things'.

Just my 2c


Uhmmm, what is the GoSH?

[Arvedui]

Guild of Scholar's Hall.

(Which is the full name...)

[Lhunithiliel]

So..... I see two possible roads to take:

1/ The Guild turns to a work-shop for T-related topics of discussion, research, study etc. and after all details have been cleared and the respective organization ensured, the respective activity goes out to a respective section of TTF thus becoming open for participation of all and any.

2/ The Guild turns to a T.C.B.S. or 'Inklings" - club where those, who seek for serious and in-depth T-related stuff may gather and enjoy all-T-related (and not only!) discussions, research, study etc. .

Which one do you prefer?

Personally, I (1. p, sing.) prefer option #2. The reason for this is that it might very well be that GoT will be the only Guild left standing after the spring-cleaning operation. And with the removal of O-i-E and GoSH, it is the only remaining Tolkien-addicted Guild (may the Periaur forgive me ).
If that is so, then the GoT should be a place for those details that does not belong naturally in the book-section or author-section.An example from the top of my head is 'The Study'.
This way, TTF could have a specific place for those in-depth 'things'.

All right, I too am for this variant.
It IS important what others think too, because this will determine how much of "spring cleaning" we shall do within our halls.

There is however sth. that just CANNOT be ignored.

From guilds like OiE, Sch, ours etc. there have been a lot of threads = discussions on various topics, that have been moved to the Book Fora. The idea was to "invite" more people to take part in them, once they have been too "shy" as to enter the Guilds before.
What happened?
Nothing! :(
The threads were drowned in the ocean of S&B chat.

This arises a serious question !!!

I mean, there will be topics of value and depth (I hope :rolleyes: ) in the future GoT and those will deffinitely be closely connected to the books, of course. But if these discussions are expected to be taken out for the considerationa and participation by others OUTside the guild, how can we be sure that their fate will not be the same as in the a.m. case? Isn't it going to be a waste to see good book-topics vanish among chat-threads?
********

I also hope that when Walt returns (from wherever he is now :confused: ), it will be high time to finalize the structure of the future guild, decide for its name (IF changed at all), description, activites etc. and I hope then he will be able to write that statemnet to Mr.Da Pence so that we would be given a "green light" and be able to start doing sth,. instead of just talking. :p

********

Wraithfully yours :p

[Manveru]

me, that is i (gee, i guess it's contagious ;)), think that the "club" will be better "project"... one thing that the good discussion really needs is... the atmosphere... yeah! that's why all those "tricks" with moving threads didn't work (in my opinion, have i mentioned "humble"?:p)

i guess now came time for "lighter" discussions (aka chats)... in all fora... i don't know... spring maybe :rolleyes: it will pass...

-------
btw, what's with your avatar, Lhun? is that wraith? omg, beat me, i'm dead (see avatar:p;):D)

[Lhunithiliel]

what's with your avatar, Lhun? is that wraith? omg, beat me, i'm dead (see avatar:p;):D)

SOMEONE ...

PLEASE !!!

HELP me stop that FRANTIC LAUGHTER !!!!

Manv, it's YOU killin' me with this avatar!!!

:D :D :D :D

[Scatha]

Actually, Manveru, Lhun's avatar at the moment is "The archer" by William Li.
Born in asia but now resides in the netherlands, another dutchman like myself.
:D

He is a wonderful artist, great choice Lhun. The larger piece shows very detailed work in lighting, specific details in the armor and a near perfect position of the body. (as it should be) :)

You can find the larger piece in his elfwood gallery.

[Manveru]

i know i know (i do know) that... noticed it, but... it's just... not wraitish at all... so cute and... oh, whatever...

what about that "club-looking-guild"? any other opinions? c'mon, people! this guild has so many members... yet, so few opinions...

psssst, Lhun, just make the changes (nobody cares anyway:p)

[Lhunithiliel]

Actually, Manveru, Lhun's avatar at the moment is "The archer" by William Li.
Born in asia but now resides in the netherlands, another dutchman like myself.

He is a wonderful artist, great choice Lhun. The larger piece shows very detailed work in lighting, specific details in the armor and a near perfect position of the body. (as it should be)
Thanks, Scatha! :) !! W.L. - really great artist! ... But didn't you see this avatar before? I used it once (true - shortly) when there was a grand project of some large RPG and I picked up the role of "Aldoriana" (named after Aldarion), who was to be Feanor's companion. :) The project was, however, never implemented.

This, BTW, reminds me of another grand project, that Snaga started months ago and it has been since then "flickering" from time to time with a casual post by someone who accidentaly finds the thread. It was really a very , very, veeeeeeery good project, but Snaga abandoned it for having departed to the "Gardens of Lorien" (those of sweet dreams and fantasies that the lovers like visiting :p ) and even though our fair Finduilas tried to revive the project, it somehow doesn' work ...
So....... I thought.... Here's sth. that the future Guild could've taken good care of, providing a special place for that project and gather to it only dedicated people.....
Ain't that the whole idea of the change....
****************
Hmmm.... btw, speaking of all this.... I wonder.... our present GM must've lost completely his head for love.... :p
Manv, if you meet him somewhere in the clouds, ask him how he is.

ooops.... I forgot! You're not an angel any more[/i] :p

Here's sth. for you, buddy COWboy! Just hit the "Play" button :)

http://www.superlaugh.com/1/cow.htm

This is my special congratulations to you becoming now a true European .... How does it feel ? - asks a "savage" from the Wild East! :p :D

***************

[Manveru]

Hmmm.... btw, speaking of all this.... I wonder.... our present GM must've lost completely his head for love.... :p
impossible... nobody can do that :rolleyes:
Manv, if you meet him somewhere in the clouds, ask him how he is.

ooops.... I forgot! You're not an angel any more[/i] :p
still am (working undercover:p), and... it's really hard to catch him online these days (and Brussels isn't that near -- although they say we've come closer to it than ever;))
This is my special congratulations to you becoming now a true European .... How does it feel ? - asks a "savage" from the Wild East! :p :D
thx, but... i prefere "savages" (you know that), if you put it this way... feels the same, btw -- waiting for you to join... (although i don't like to meddle into politics; "muddy" ground:p)

[Lhunithiliel]

Well.... well....well...
Look who's back from....wherever he was ... !!! :p :D

...and I too prefer option 2 above...
I don't know why the others haven't stated their opinion, too, but it seems that the "Club"-option is winning. I hope that Mr.Da Pence will accept our offer.
Walt, you shall obviously have to make it an offer he won't be able to refuse! ;)

Meanwhile, we'll have to decide some trivial things like:
- the new name
- the new description
- the names of the sections & their description

Then, the Administrators of the respective sections shall ahve to decide what, out of the existing threads, to leave and what to send to the archives or to some other suitable place.

Then I suppose the Administrators shall have to decide about the activities inside each respective section.

So, let's start the spring cleaning! :D

[Gil-Galad]

WOW.

Lots of thing have been suggested,said and done.
I will have to spend a long time reading this stuff:)

I definitely like some of the ideas ,but also I disagree with some.

I will need some time to think about it:)

Lhun,I would be glad if I can have a chat with you these days,about your ideas and conception.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'd love that too, GG, but in fact... it is ALL here - on the pages of this thread!
All my thoughts, and ALL those of ALL the true Tolkien fans that are trying to survive in the sea of mediocre chit-chat.
My idea - and NOT only mine! - let's keep this place for some really creative work!

I would love to read YOUR thoughts!!

BTW, people, why don't I see any suggestions on those things I wrote in my previous post? :confused:

Here's a reminder:

Meanwhile, we'll have to decide some trivial things like:
- the new name
- the new description
- the names of the sections & their description

Then, the Administrators of the respective sections shall have to decide what, out of the existing threads, to leave and what to send to the archives or to some other suitable place.

Then I suppose the Administrators shall have to decide about the activities inside each respective section.

....You know,... I have been often blamed for being impatient ... :o :rolleyes: ... but I see time's flying and soon it will be summer and .... summer has never been too much of an active season for any forum.... So, if we keep on just discussing the new structure and not actually do it, we might very well meet the summer with this new structure all right, but hardly any activity within.

[Manveru]

...i came to one (and the same) idea, that our little "club-guild-whatever" will be a place for real Tolkien-all-pro's --> in-depth discussions etc. (wasn't that a main reason for constructing this website, in general... whole TTF? :confused: ), and i'm starting to think... will it be (really) a place for all who would like to be here? i'm the member of GoT for nearly a year now and i'm really getting more and more confused by all these changes, re-groupings, moving-outs... simply all this cleaning. i feel that the future GoT (or whatever the name will be) will still be a place for one small (big? :rolleyes: )circle of attendants still "closed" for those "too-shy-to-post-TTF-members" (although GoT has never been such a place).

don't know if all i said makes any sense (gosh, if i try to be serious even i have some difficulty in understanding my "stream of reasoning").

correct me if i'm wrong (i might be), but won't it be the "same" place only with a new name (if any), little changed here and there (but that's only putting some make-up on to an "old" face of our good ol'guild, you must admit...all)? and for what? for acquiring new members (now that all other guilds are closed, or soon to be), for increasing activity? don't think it will be the best way to do that... tho i'm not too shy anymore (thx to you guys!), i start to feel more and more "out of place" here (esp. taking "in-depth discussions") so what can say some person belonging to those so called "shy ones"? do you think s/he will stomp on this ground willingly... even if wraith or any other member will say it's okay for everybody to participate? i know it's true, i know they aren't just hollow words (and i will welcome anybody willing to participate), but what about "them"... it's really a hard step to make to "meddle in affairs of the wise"...

i feel like i'm talking only nonsense... so... you can skip that... let's move to those "trivial things" Lhun proposed:
- the new name
i, myself, am for not changing it... Guild of Tolkienology seems very appropriate in this case (maybe that's why we managed to stay "alive" so long? ;))
- the new description
hmm... ditto?
- the names of the sections & their description
here... i think we, first, need to decide if all of them stay or not...

---------
about the "caves" (for which i was nominated--gee--one of administrators) in another post... soon

[Manveru]

Strange are the ways of Men, Legolas! Here they have one of the marvels of the Northern World, and what do they say of it? Caves, they say! Caves! Holes (...) There would be an endless pilgrimage of Dwarves, merely to gaze at them, if such things were known to be. Aye indeed, they would pay pure gold for a brief glance!

well, don't think that those "payments" could be still taken into consideration (;)), but... i would like to see not only Dwarves marveling out there... deep in our Caves (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=92&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1)... and not just "merely to gaze at them"... participate, yes, that would be worth to see... a crowd there (tho i love open spaces, give more room to stretch my legs:p)

Caves... our Glittering Caves... let's take a closer look, shall we? such great threads as: the What if? game (did i hear some squeal, wraith?), the Hall of Essays, Event Game or Tolkienologists' Creative Endeavours Hall! what to want more? i know, i know... participation ;)

like i said earlier (somewhere, too lazy to check) almost 90% of the Caves contains threads similar to those scattered all over TTF. now, if we want to increase an activity in this section, i see some possibilities... either merge the Caves with all those scattered threads (but that would include Prouncing Pony...and that is a separate and self-sufficient--IMHO--corner of TTF) or... leave our threads where they are, which will create "cut-throat competition" (TTF members will have to choose where to post, can't just post in both at the same time). that's why i think, despite of really good ideas going on deep in the Caves, they lack activity... so:

the What if? game -- great idea! IMO should stay... it's... very competitive to all similar... just need some air to breathe in...
(oh, and "the What if? game-work book" should be made sticky as well... hard to find if abandoned for too long...just a thought)
the Gallery of Character-Drawings -- cool refuge for all those artists that lost their place to gather in... come, stay awhile :)
the Hall of Essays -- a "must be here"! can't imagine the Caves without it ("the Hall of Essays-work book --> sticky, too, pls! thx)
Event Game -- making out riddles (not necessarily) about different events in M-e... isn't that interesting?! c'mon... there were so many of them...
Tolkienologists' Creative Endeavours Hall -- tough one; guess it will be a corner for (really only) true members of this guild to show some "written word" to the same (not so numerous) audience... let it be
"Talking Tolkien" Game -- seemed like a good idea... little abandoned (like whole section); we may try to revive it, if not, should go to a respective place at TTF (where? don't ask me)
Letters -- ditto... tho i don't feel like giving up this idea to somewhere else... why?! we can make it "popular" here as well, can't we?
Grond's Design Pit -- something like artists' "work book"? any other ideas?
the Tower of Babel -- hmm... anybody interested (still) in sharing some linguistic news? should stay in my opinion... we speak so many languages in RL, right? :)

all the rest make threads that resembles temporary-interested-in questions...

phew... that was quite a journey through all the labyrinths and mazes of the Caves... haven't got any "new" ideas at present, but... if we can gain some attention to those old threads and (hopefully) come up with some new ones... the Caves should prosper... i know i said it once, but i still think so: artists cannot work 24/7, right? so, i'm not too worried about the Caves' activity...

anybody on other Halls?

thx,
Man :D

[Arvedui]

How I see it:
GoT is now the only Tolkien-related Guild left. IMO, Periaur and Outcasts are no more than social-clubs, and will probably end in Floatsam & Jetsam.
Is there then any reason to keep ONE Guild?

IMO, no. At least not in the form as Guilds have today, where they also form teams for inter-guild debates. Book-related topics may just as well be discussed in the book-section, drawings and writings alreay have their special sections, etc.
What we don't have (still IMO) is that special place to discuss topics or participate in Tolkien-related work (like The Study and the "What if..."-Game) that does not naturally fall into one of the already listed sections.

Manveru mentioned the "Afraid to enter-syndrome." I think that this 'disease' will remain as long as any Guild has a member-list.

So what I propose is that the Guild of Tolkienology becomes an open, free-for-all part of the Book-section (or Author-section), where research can be published, where very wide or very narrow topics can be discussed, etc, etc.

I don't see any need to bring about a large-scale restructuring of the Guild to be able to bring that about.

Just my 2c...


*Ducks, and hides from the wraith*

[Aulë]

So what I propose is that the Guild of Tolkienology becomes an open, free-for-all part of the Book-section (or Author-section), where research can be published, where very wide or very narrow topics can be discussed, etc, etc.Yes, I agree with what has been put forward many times now.
Convert the GoT into a Projects Fora. The usual GoT heirachy can keep the projects in order and running on time. Perhaps those 'organisers' can be given Mod status so they can keep things all ordered and such.

These projects would not include general book-discussion. That could all go into the book fora. But things such as debates, essays and quizes could be given their own forums within the Projects fora. Perhaps the Hall of Fire could have a few things moved out of it into the Projects section too? Such as the Quiz/Trivia, Silmarillion Chapter Discussion and LOTR Quiz threads. This fora could be stuck between the The Works of J.R.R. Tolkien (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3) and General Discussions on Tolkien's Works (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8) fora, so it would be nearer to the top of the main page.

As Arvedui said, there should be no member list- all TTF members should be able to post in it, like in the book fora and movie fora. Only the people in charge of organising things (people like Lhun, GG and Eriol) should be given any titles. Something like this would need more than just a Mod to keep things going.

[Manveru]

yeah... delete that nasty member list... it isn't up-to-date anyway... we don't have such a great number of active members :rolleyes:

make the place friendly and easy-going (gosh, i thought it has been like this all the time :p)

Lhun? GG? any suggestions? comments?

[Gil-Galad]

I must confess that I do believe that GOT needs to be changed.
Especially its format.Arvedui is right about the membreship thing.I believe that we don't need it,so we can just delete it,but at the same time we may need some members to do the organizational stuff.)

Some months ago I spoke with WM about an eventual merge with GoS.He let me know that he would not allow GOT's name to be changed in an eventual merge.My opinion is that we shold keep the name of the Guild.Yes,it will not be exactly a guild like the guilds we know from the past,but it will keep the same spirit.The spirit of a place where real Tolkien fans gather and contribute to TTF with real "scientific" posts.

What I mean is that GOT can be a guild,but a different one(just to keep the name).A place where some serious people gather and discuss in depth Tolkien and his world.The title "Guild of Tolkienolgy" can be used as a symbol of that place for,place for serious things,Guild about Tolkienology.I hope we will not forget the reason why Master Grond named that place in such a way,because it is a place for real Tolkien fans.

[Lhunithiliel]

...*Ducks, and hides from the wraith*
Hide??? From ME ???!!! Impossible, Arnorian !!! I sssseeee youuuu! :p

And good that I have found you because I'd like to start my comments having yours in particular in mind! :p

Arv, I can't understand you!!! Once you're saying guilds are not necessary because they become closed societies and "shy" people simply "shy off" from the activities in there. Then you say you'd like to see the new place set up as a club. But clubs are closed societies!!!
So.... which one will it be??? :p

GoT is now the only Tolkien-related Guild left. IMO, Periaur and Outcasts are no more than social-clubs, and will probably end in Floatsam & Jetsam.
Is there then any reason to keep ONE Guild?
In Numenor and, if Im not mistaken, the ONLY guild in ME we know of, was Aldarion's Guild of Marienrs and it was ONE and ONLY! :p
Anyway ... I personally don't have any particular opinion on this issue. I will accept either way - "Guild" or no "Guild"!

What we don't have (still IMO) is that special place to discuss topics or participate in Tolkien-related work (like The Study and the "What if..."-Game) that does not naturally fall into one of the already listed sections.
Hmmm ... this sounds like building up a TTF - "trash-can"... HAHAHA ... C'mon! I know you did not mean it! As I see, the commonly shared opinion is that the new place shall be the one for in-depth studies, research, publications etc.... All right, I understand you and I agree with you, ... now guess what's coming >>>> BUT...

But if so, then:

1/ "Annals of Eldaniare" goes in!
2/ The "New Mythology" - project gois in!
3/ "J.R.R.T. - The creator of ME" - goes in!

These are only the main ones that will fit IN!!! I'd probably have to walk around the TTF and pick up some more!

Agree? You see... We give... It's only fair we take, too! Those fora/projects just HAVE to be IN the newly established

Manveru mentioned the "Afraid to enter-syndrome." I think that this 'disease' will remain as long as any Guild has a member-list.
I agree ... We don't need it..... guess what's coming now... :p...

But, let's analyse a bit this "syndrome".
Why would one feel "shy" enough to stay away from a place like the one we are about to build up? A person may feel shy only when comparing him/her-self to others in a certain society, and according to his/her purely subjective opinion, finds out that the others are different in most things/ways. So this person feels "out of place" within such a society and we call that state "shyness".
Projected to the particular case of the guild - "shyness" may be understood as coming as a result of: 1/ not enough knowledge and 2/ general shallowness of mind. In case 1/ - the new society must think of project to help a new-by willing to get more knowledge. And so this type of "shyness" will be dealt with. As for case 2/.... Hmmm... May I not comment? I'd only say that I'd be happy to see the new place free and open for everyone, but yet ... spared from silly intrusions into serious activities... just because some peiople feel bored and are looking for some fun!

I don't see any need to bring about a large-scale restructuring of the Guild to be able to bring that about.
And who's talking about large-scale restructuring?!!! :p Only re-arranging!

[Lhunithiliel]

Now... whose turn is it?
Ah! The "mad cow"'s :D

But... in fact I can't find anything to object to! Hmmm... Strange! :p :D

********

The Vala....
This fora could be stuck between the The Works of J.R.R. Tolkien and General Discussions on Tolkien's Works fora, so it would be nearer to the top of the main page.
Exactly! I even think that this whole GRAND FORA - place, including the book fora + the one we are about to build up, has to be immediately after the "The news..." section of TTF!

As for the Quizes etc. threads... Yes, why not!

In fact, I think that these issues are to be decided later by the respective Administrators of each Hall.

Titles and Mod's access:

I am not sure we need any titles. As for moderating the respective Halls, I think each shall have to have one Mod to be responsible for keeping the order within their area. As I suggested before, each section may have three Administrators so that they can pass decisions after voting for/against. But these shall have to pick up one of them to do the Mod's job.

Well, I guess this is all the "wraith" has to say for the time being.
I'm expecting with great interest Walter's opinion, too.
In fact, I'd be happy to learn everybody's opinion!
************

One more thing, though...
What, pray, is this "flooding" trend of Latin signatures???
Walt, you started it all !!!
How very sophisticated !!! :p :D

[Arvedui]

Arv, I can't understand you!!! Once you're saying guilds are not necessary because they become closed societies and "shy" people simply "shy off" from the activities in there. Then you say you'd like to see the new place set up as a club. But clubs are closed societies!!!
So.... which one will it be??? :pNo, I do not say that guild are not necesarry. My point is that they have outlived themselves in the current form. I don't think Isaid that it would be a club, and certainly I do not think it should be. My thought was that it should be a place where the 'scientific' aspects could be handled, but a free-for-all place.

But if so, then:

1/ "Annals of Eldaniare" goes in!
2/ The "New Mythology" - project gois in!
3/ "J.R.R.T. - The creator of ME" - goes in!
Exactly!
And there are various threads hanging around, that also should fit in nicely.

I agree ... We don't need it..... guess what's coming now... :p...

But, let's analyse a bit this "syndrome".
Why would one feel "shy" enough to stay away from a place like the one we are about to build up? A person may feel shy only when comparing him/her-self to others in a certain society, and according to his/her purely subjective opinion, finds out that the others are different in most things/ways. So this person feels "out of place" within such a society and we call that state "shyness". It is my personal opinion that any place with a member-list creates a mental block for some. As long as it is clear to everyone wha this place is about, then that block will not be present. I remember that some mebers were reluctant to post in the old Guild of Politics, because they thought that it was a Guild in tha same manner as the others!
Projected to the particular case of the guild - "shyness" may be understood as coming as a result of: 1/ not enough knowledge and 2/ general shallowness of mind. In case 1/ - the new society must think of project to help a new-by willing to get more knowledge. And so this type of "shyness" will be dealt with. As for case 2/.... Hmmm... May I not comment? I'd only say that I'd be happy to see the new place free and open for everyone, but yet ... spared from silly intrusions into serious activities... just because some peiople feel bored and are looking for some fun!I think that we are all thinking in the same manner about this. There has been very little activity in the guilds as a whole the latest period. Just take a look at those guilds that are still in existance: Which threads are active?
We need more activity concerning the only topic in life that really matters (;) ) JRR Tolkien and his works.

And who's talking about large-scale restructuring?!!! :p Only re-arranging! Must have been my understanding that was twisted, then...

[Lhunithiliel]

All right!
So, as I see, we agree on the most important issues! :)
And if I've understood you correctly, and as I and most of us have agreed, too, we won't need a Member list. I only hope this can change things.
But in any case... What we're striving for is, of course , keep the core of this forum. :)

[Manveru]

Now... whose turn is it?
Ah! The "mad cow"'s :D

But... in fact I can't find anything to object to! Hmmm... Strange! :p :D
is it, wraith?

so...

if everything's cool with everybody... can we start with this thing going on?
(don't think we can expect any other comments, save Walter's... and that's sad :()

--------------
One more thing, though...
What, pray, is this "flooding" trend of Latin signatures???
Walt, you started it all !!!
How very sophisticated !!! :p :D
bella lingua est... that's why :p

[Gil-Galad]

No, I do not say that guild are not necesarry. My point is that they have outlived themselves in the current form. I don't think Isaid that it would be a club, and certainly I do not think it should be. My thought was that it should be a place where the 'scientific' aspects could be handled, but a free-for-all place.

...

As far as I can see,it seems that we all agree about the most important things.

Honestly I do not think that these changes are that big and serious.What I mean is that the only really important change will be the fact that there will be no membership list.Let's say that the other changes will be in a way "cosmetics".

Lhun said it very good :
In Numenor and, if Im not mistaken, the ONLY guild in ME we know of, was Aldarion's Guild of Marienrs and it was ONE and ONLY!

I believe that we should keep the name of The Guild.This place has been and will be place for real "Tolkienology",no matter whether it has free access or not.I think that we should keep the name.

By the way the Guild of Outcasts and GoP are still Guilds,although they are more or less social clubs.Why don't we have one "serious" guild,with free access for everybody who is interested in Tolkien ,just like Aldarion's Guild of Mariners.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'm late again (after having spent another two days mostly under the desk and - literally - halfways within one of my computers).
***......trying to imagine him halfways within a computer...*** :D

But I'm all for it....

1) To keep the GoT, not as a guild but as an area dedicated to Tolkien related projects as discussed above.

2) To get rid of memberlist, titles and tests. Everyone should be welcome to join in and partake in the projects and commit to tasks therein....

3) To re-structure the guild-area so that it is in accordance with the new function, but not necessarily re-name it...

4) To start collecting ideas for projects rather than worrying too much about name, layout, structure, etc., etc....

5) Last, but not least (in fact most important, IMO): To start with projects ASAP, so that our thumbs don't get sore - or dizzy - from too much twisting...
Ah! Manv has had several very good ideas and I'm sure he is ready to start doing things instead of just talking about them..

Green light, Angel!

I have suggested a couple of things too ... :rolleyes: Any volunteers to join me?
Also, I remembered the great project of Maedhros about the chapter-by-chapter studying and discussing the Silmarillion.... and also the excellent idea of Baragund of the same with the BoLT-s...
Need I say anything at all about the "What if?"-games!!!!!!! :p
And I am sure that the "Study" can be very well revived, too!
I am sure that GG will be more than happy to get on with the Gallery!!!

All these could be a good start...

But! I am absolutely sure that along with all the activities - new or/and old the work on re-structuring will be no easier. But it can be achieved with the help of Mods. I think Arvedui, Scatha .... (who else is a Mod here?)... can help a lot in this.

Now... we also have to be realistic about one thing.
With or without any titles and memeber lists, the people who will come and participate will not be many. But the more I think about it, I have realised that in fact there's nothing to worry about. If we suggest good and interesting activities, though there have been and still there are such, people who wish to participate in them will enjoy them greatly and this is what counts. There's no need to "force" anyone to come and participate anywhere.
I, for one, being now in a stage of researching about things far behind the myths, find this "solitary" endeavour very exciting and whatever I find I am only glad to share it with the others - like I did with my essay "Of the seven invasions", f.ex. True, there was no a storm of responses to it, but ... the research itself gave me both - knowledge and immense satisfaction. I have two other of these "solo"-projects pending and I can't wait untill I find some more free time to go on working on them. In fact "working" is not even the right word!!! For it is not an obligation, but pleasure. :)

Of course, I know that it is much more exciting to discuss a good topic with friends and I'll be happy to see this happening in our Guild.
Maybe it will be so... :rolleyes:

per aspera ad astra...
***....feeling again :o :rolleyes: *****

[Gil-Galad]

I'm late again (after having spent another two days mostly under the desk and - literally - halfways within one of my computers).

But I'm all for it....

1) To keep the GoT, not as a guild but as an area dedicated to Tolkien related projects as discussed above...

2) To get rid of memberlist, titles and tests. Everyone should be welcome to join in and partake in the projects and commit to tasks therein....

3) To re-structure the guild-area so that it is in accordance with the new function, but not necessarily re-name it...

4) To start collecting ideas for projects rather than worrying too much about name, layout, structure, etc., etc....

5) Last, but not least (in fact most important, IMO): To start with projects ASAP, so that our thumbs don't get sore - or dizzy - from too much twisting... ;)


[;)
...
6) To light the fire in some great projects which are in The Guild.(The Study,The Gallery of Characters,The What If Game,The Hall of Essays,The Gallery of Characters-Drawings(come on,there are so many talented people here!!) -are only some of the activities which MUST NOT BE FORGOTTEN)

by Lhunithiliel
I am sure that GG will be more than happy to get on with the Gallery!!!

I will be really happy to see The Gallery and the Hall of Essays alive again.But to light the fire again,I believe that we,the one who have been here for a long time,should start it.

Why don't everyone of us chose a character again?And maybe we can set a new topic for an essay?

[Arvedui]

I would be very happy to help out with the practical matters of restructuring etc, but unfortunately I do not have the "powers" needed to do so. Only an admin can. All I can do is move and/or delete single threads and posts, pluss editing and warning people.

[Lhunithiliel]

If we are to keep the present structure and naming of the different sections, to which I do NOT object at all!, I still think that the overall thematic content of the activities within the respective sections must be specified.
If you remember, at the beginning of the present discussion, I suggested one variant and Walter suggested a slightly different approach.... Then we sort of "mixed" them ...
Now, I think, it's time for the Administrators to very clearly state the general topic of all the threads/projects/activities in their respective sections.

I also think that the Administrators of each section should exchange PM-s to decide which of the threads in their respective sections are to be left and which to be archived.

The Library of the Istary, for example, IMO should be 100% cleared. It will be a much more usefull space for effective activities than to hold the archive of the former GoT.
As for the other sections ... we'll have to decide, because there are things there that have to preserved and yet others that have to be sent to the archives.
Also, the Administrators IMO should carefully decide about the description of their respective section, that appears under the title.

Scatha, Findi, PM me please, or post openly here, your opinions. After all, the three of us are responsible for the overall order within this new space. ;) :)

One more thing.
I'd suggest to the Administrators of each section to "look around" and pick up from all and any place on TTF, projects that are better to be placed in this new area. Once the three of you have agreed on bringing in a certain activity, please, let the community know and with a help of a Mod, transfer the respective activity into the new GoT.

And who will arrange the new place of the new Guild? I mean, it has to be movved within the book-fora section of TTF, not to mention that two of those book fora should go into it. :cool:
*****************

I would be very happy to help out with the practical matters of restructuring etc, but unfortunately I do not have the "powers" needed to do so. Only an admin can. All I can do is move and/or delete single threads and posts, pluss editing and warning people.
Arv, but can't you move threads from one place to another? And can't you arrange these things with the Administrators of the TTF? After all, you are in one and the same team!

But, if this is the case, then .... Walt, it seems you shall really have to write that "no-refuse-permitting" letter to Mr.Da Pence. :cool:

[Arvedui]

Moving threads is no problem.
And I will take care of coordinating what needs to be done with Beorn or WM.

I would however like to see some sort of conclusion on this thread before I start. Otherwise you can trust me to misunderstand some important detail...:rolleyes:

[Manveru]

oh, yeah... *clapping hands, oops, hooves* ;)

a conclusion... yay! "lucky" s/he who'll be honoured ( :rolleyes: ) to do that (some 8 pages :p)

[Lhunithiliel]

Moving threads is no problem.
And I will take care of coordinating what needs to be done with Beorn or WM.

I would however like to see some sort of conclusion on this thread before I start. Otherwise you can trust me to misunderstand some important detail...:rolleyes:

Ah! Thank you so much, Arvedui! :)
I guess, Walt will give those conclusions when he has the time to do it. :p

[Lhunithiliel]

What conclusions and why me??? :D

Am I supposed to be the scapegoat for this project? ;)
Ah! Men!!! :rolleyes: :p

All right...
Arv,
Here's my own opinion on re-arranging the Máhanaxar:

To be archived:

"GoT - Apply here"; the Member lList -thread; Testing and Ranking; "Your name"; "Analyses..."; the "Thorondor- threads - both - actual and discussion.

To go to other places :

"The best of best" >> to the Noldorin Forge
"Melting Pot" >> S&B
"The Great Debate matters" >> to the Noldorin Forge


From the Lobby of the Guild's space:

Everything to be archived.
I don't know what the final decision of Beorn is about the Quiz, but if some day he decides to let it run again, it has to be freed from the "ranking"-purposes and be there just as it is - a "tool" to check one's knowledge.
In this case, I'd rather place it into one of the inner sections of the Guild aside some other similar projects.
.... But IF only it is activated! :(

**************

What I have just done I think should be done by the Administrators of every section.
In any case, Arv, everything from the "Library" should probably be archived. In this way the LI as well as the other sections will be "cleansed" and ready for the new activities to be started and for some existing to be revived/reorganised (if necessary) etc.

[Manveru]

:eek: sounds drasticly, wraith... seeing our guild being cut, chopped... brr... i "grew up" as a TTF member here, in this very place i was making my first steps... but, what one can do... progress (:( grr! :mad: )

as one of (probable) future admins (don't like all those titles -- prefer to stay in the shadows -- tho, sb has to do sth: too few of us left... too few to manage all of them... you don't even know how true your words might be, Treebeard ;)) of the glittering caves i feel that:

>> i need a moment (;)) to think about what should be moved, archived and so on... maybe you should ask El instead... i'm here for too short a period, i guess (but will try to comment on this, nonetheless... shortly)

[Lhunithiliel]

:eek: sounds drasticly, wraith... seeing our guild being cut, chopped... brr...
Why, Angel!
I see it more like .... like Opening the gates of Gondolin, presuming that "Arda has been cleansed from evil". ;) :)

i "grew up" as a TTF member here, in this very place i was making my first steps... but, what one can do... progress (:( grr! :mad: )
But the community IS still here!!!

[Manveru]

But the community IS still here!!!
and i'm grateful to God, Eru, all the Greek (and their Roman equivalents) gods... and whoever i should be for that :)

[Lhunithiliel]

Shouldn't it be the "White Goddess" then, rather than all that nasty offspring of "Dieus petér" (Zeus, Jupiter, Tiu, Deus)? :p

and ***...came he out of the computer...*** :D

Having said this, a good topic for the Library just occurred to me: "Origins Early Concepts of the Divine". How about that?
OMG!!! That's a huuge topic... but thrilling as well! :cool:

[Scatha]

Scatha, Findi, PM me please, or post openly here, your opinions. After all, the three of us are responsible for the overall order within this new space. ;) :)


Posting as requested. I agree on the proposed new foundation and also agree with the suggested deletions of threads.

I do however need to advise you, that I am in the middle of redecorating our newly bought apartment and aim to move in there at the end of June. (lotsa work to do, even for a dragon) So I might not be around much at the start, but certainly will make up for it. I hope you can do without my immediate presence untill after the move, but in general we are on the same wavelength in regards to organisational matters.

Looking forward to be actively participating in this. :D

[Arvedui]

Shouldn't it be the "White Goddess" then, rather than all that nasty offspring of "Dieus petér" (Zeus, Jupiter, Tiu, Deus)? :p
I can't believe that you did not mention Odin!

The Norseman

[Lhunithiliel]

Thank you Dragon!
And all the best in your new lair! :D

Gentlemen, it's such a pity that the TTF meeting could not take place ... for talkative as we are, we would've spent our time in absolutely thrilling conversations, discussions, chat ... :p :D

Seriously now...
Arv, are you in powers to do the cleaning of those sections?
If so, would you do it please? Space is needed for the new projects.

And we have not heard a word of the same kind (like my 'drastic" suggestions" ;) ) concerning the Noldorin Forge.

Inder?
Walt?
Arv?
GG?
Aule??
Mariner?

:p :D

***********
(psst...... have you all seen my new signature???)

[Arvedui]

As long as it only includes moving threads around, the answer is yes. But are we agreed on this? It seems to me that at least Manveru has some doubts...

However, I am a little short on time in the beginning of this week. I plan on start moving by thursday evening. That should also give you some time to finish arguing about what to move/keep/delete/archive.

I will however, ask for some caution on this. As far as I know, our suggestions have only been discussed amoung this little group of people. I have not conferred my suggestion among my fellow Mods, or the administrators. I will open that discussion right after posting this. I don't think that there should be any big arguments against it, though.

I'll keep you posted on the progress.

[Finduilas]

Ok, after going through the whole 7-paged pile of informative posts....I think I can now freely state my opinion (on the matters I think of now:)).

First of all, I completely agree that we should change the actual 'contents' of the Guild but definetely not its name! Our name gives off a really pleasant feeling of pride and admiration of our connection with Tolkien and his works. Changing it would mean that we sort of turn aside from it. That's not right, I guess....

As for the (re)moving of some threads...well, I'm still making up my mind. There're so many threads that we feel very close since they're with us from the very beginning, such us The Endeavours Hall, The Gallery, The Lectures etc. They certainly shouldn't be removed and I'm sure nobody has even thought of it. :)
But moving threads here and there... I just can't imagine The Melting Pot somewhere out of the Guild (S&B). I guess that my final opinion is that Guild threads should not be moved out of the Guild, but if the majority is "for"...no objections. :)

Oh, concerning the membership... Well, although removing its existance will deprive me of my title ;) I'm all against membership as well. We are not close because we all have passed some tests and some testing periods...no! We are close because we have something incredibly strong to unite us (Tolkien). If memberships are removed it will even be, IMO, easier for greenies :p to adjust. There was a discussion about "shiness"... Well, if a person comes into a free society and not one of tests-pass-in-order-to-join, he will feel more home-like in the beginning and won't worry about initial knowledge, result of tests (mistakes) etc. They'll be happy to join not worrying that they'll be rejected.

Mum, you were asking about the Noldorin Forge:
I browsed all the threads and this are the ones trully essential, IMO:

The Study
The Gallery Of Characters
The Never Asked Question
The Hall of Lectures
The Gallery of Characters
What started you on reading Tolkien? <- This one has a lot of potential.
The reliability of the Silmaillion
Realms Of Arda: A Tolkien Geography Discussion Thread
The road to becoming a Tolkienologist
What the Silmarillion misses from HOME
Quenya Lessons
Trivia, anyone?

Well, cant think of anything else now...guess it is too long, anyway. Sorry. :)

* * *

Oh, Mum, let me quote you for a bit: ;)

Projected to the particular case of the guild - "shyness" may be understood as coming as a result of: 1/ not enough knowledge and 2/ general shallowness of mind. In case 1/ - the new society must think of project to help a new-by willing to get more knowledge. And so this type of "shyness" will be dealt with. As for case 2/.... Hmmm... May I not comment? I'd only say that I'd be happy to see the new place free and open for everyone, but yet ... spared from silly intrusions into serious activities... just because some peiople feel bored and are looking for some fun!

Now, sorry for disagreeing but...;)
I don't think that a person is shy either due to lack of knowledge or shallow mind! A person might be extremely educated and yet be shy. It's not because he lacks something... He may merely be afraid of the others' reaction. He might