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Starflower
05-13-2004, 02:51 PM
time for chapter discussions again, we're on Ch 4
The chapter opens the morning after the Hobbits' encounter with Gildor and his band of Elves. We catch a glimpse of the strength Sam is going show in the later chapters here:
Well, Sam!' he said. 'What about it? I am leaving the Shire as soon as
ever I can – in fact I have made up my mind now not even to wait a day at
Crickhollow, if it can be helped.'
'Very good, sir!'
'You still mean to come with me?'
'I do.'
'It is going to be very dangerous, Sam. 'It is already dangerous. Most
likely neither of us will come back.'
'If you don't come back, sir, then I shan't, that's certain,' said Sam.
_'Don't you leave him!_ they said to me. _Leave him!_ I said. _I never mean
to. I am going with him, if he climbs to the Moon, and if any of those Black
Rulers try to stop him, they'll have Sam Gamgee to reckon with,_ I said. They
laughed.'
'Who are _they,_ and what are you talking about?'
'The Elves, sir. We had some talk last night; and they seemed to know you
were going away, so I didn't see the use of denying it. Wonderful folk, Elves,
sir! Wonderful!'
Remember, this is before we find out that Pippin and Merry are in on the scheme, so Frodo is still thinking only Sam is going with him.
'Yes, sir. I don't know how to say it, but after last night I feel
different. I seem to see ahead, in a kind of way. I know we are going to take
a very long road, into darkness; but I know I can't turn back. It isn't to see
Elves now, nor dragons, nor mountains, that I want – I don't rightly know what I want: but I have something to do before the end, and it lies ahead, not in the Shire. I must see it through, sir, if you understand me.'
'I don't altogether. But I understand that Gandalf chose me a good
companion. I am content. We will go together.'
this is probably the most convicting quote of the whole story, in it Sam shows himself being more than a simple country hobbit, and we get an idea of deeper, darker things that lie ahead. Then it's off on the road again, but they are clearly afraid of been seen by more Black Riders so Frodo decides on a shortcut , which leads them to Farmer Maggot's fields.
Here we learn something of Frodo's teenage years :
'I am terrified of him and his dogs. I have avoided his farm for years
and years. He caught me several times trespassing after mushrooms, when I was a youngster at Brandy Hall.
Seems our Mr Frodo wasn't all goody-goody after all ;)
Anyway, our hobbits find unexpected help in the house of Farmer Maggot, as he offers to take them on his cart all the way to the Bucklebury Ferry. There we meet Merry coming to meet them, andf the chapter closes on a surprise:MUSHROOMS!

Discuss :)

Eledhwen
06-13-2004, 12:47 AM
It is the banter between the hobbits in this chapter that gives the strong sense of cameraderie - people who have grown up together and known each other for a long time. It is echoed again in Theoden's words when Gimli berates the hobbits at the gates of Isengard for sleeping and smoking. It's the way great friends talk to one another.

I don't have LotR in front of me right now (after much pestering - and The Hobbit - I'm reading it to my 7 year old at bedtimes), so I'll try to be less woolly later.

Artanis
07-04-2004, 12:51 PM
It is the banter between the hobbits in this chapter that gives the strong sense of cameraderie - people who have grown up together and known each other for a long time.Agreed, it continues from the previous chapters. The lightness of tine between the Hobbits and their jokes and singing makes much of the chapter seem cheerful, even though we know the nature of Frodo's task. Take this little passage:‘All right!’ said Pippin. ‘I will follow you into every bog and ditch. But it is hard! I had counted on passing the Golden Perch at Stock before sundown. The best beer in the Eastfarthing, or used to be: it is a long time since I tasted it.’ ‘That settles it!’ said Frodo. ‘Short cuts make delays, but inns make longer ones. At all costs we must keep you away from the Golden Perch. We want to get to Bucklebury before dark. What do you say, Sam?’

‘I will go along with you, Mr. Frodo,’ said Sam (in spite of private misgiving and a deep regret for the best beer in the Eastfarthing).

But there are darker moments too. Like when Frodo is thinking about whether he ought to take his friends with him on the quest, and ends up with a 'no', even though at that time he doesn't have a clue of the real dangers he is going to face. And Sam, looking at Frodo just then, I can imagine him thinking about his 'treachery', his little conspiracy with merry and Pip. :D

I think the reason Sam gives for following Frodo is very interesting. The meeting with the Elves has changed something in him. Repeating the quote that Starflower gave: Yes, sir. I don't know how to say it, but after last night I feel
different. I seem to see ahead, in a kind of way. I know we are going to take
a very long road, into darkness; but I know I can't turn back. It isn't to see
Elves now, nor dragons, nor mountains, that I want – I don't rightly know what I want: but I have something to do before the end, and it lies ahead, not in the Shire. I must see it through, sir, if you understand me.'
'I don't altogether. But I understand that Gandalf chose me a good
companion. I am content. We will go together.'Remarkably, here the insight and wisdom seems to be on Sam's side rather than Frodo's.

Melian_the_Maya
08-12-2004, 01:50 PM
Well, chapter four was certainly in my view more dynamic than number three. The danger presented by the Nazgul are the salt and pepper of this chapter, although I have to say Farmer Maggot proves to be an interesting character. I have always considered him somewhat mysterious and in any case he seems more down to Middle Earth than the rest of the Hobbit population: he keeps open eyes and ears, even more than the Brandybucks, who, being on the border were forced to be different from their fellows in hobbiton.

I have the sensation that in this chapter, as is the case in the whole Fellowship of the Ring and part of the Two Towers, Sam, with his generous heart and despite all the light-headed attitude he sometimes has, hides something. I've always found this chapter intriguing at the very least, because it allows us to glimpse into the future: Sam is growing up, since the encounter with the Elves, Frodo begins to realise how much of a burden he has to shoulder to the end and Pippin proves to be active and resourceful and generally a good companion.

Although I get the feeling that Farmer Maggot is there only to provide a climax with his bad news, he comes across as more than the usual empty messenger. He is, if not a dynamic character, at least a hobbit that shows less than all he has. That, for a hobbit, is most peculiar.

Eledhwen
08-12-2004, 02:47 PM
Farmer Maggott is definitely more than he seems. He is acquainted with Tom Bombadil, and like the Old Gaffer, he is not fazed by Black Riders, whose chief weapon is fear.He is, if not a dynamic character, at least a hobbit that shows less than all he has. That, for a hobbit, is most peculiar....though a trait shown by Frodo's companions and Fredegar Bolger, who kept their own counsel about the Ring until the unmasking at Crickhollow.

Barliman Butterbur
08-24-2004, 03:19 PM
...our hobbits find unexpected help in the house of Farmer Maggot, as he offers to take them on his cart all the way to the Bucklebury Ferry. There we meet Merry coming to meet them, and the chapter closes on a surprise:MUSHROOMS!

And elsewhere is mentioned "mushrooms and bacon." That caused me to add that dish to my own menu! Not very often, but sometimes by God, I have to have a plate of mushrooms and bacon (the mushrooms sautéed in the bacon fat) with a mug of beer and steaming hot biscuits and butter!

Barley