Exploring: Foresight

[Artanis]

Some thoughts about foresight:

The Ainur, many of the Elves, the Drúedain, and some Men of noble inheritance are gifted with foresight. This ability is easy to explain with the Ainur, they got their knowledge from the vision of the great music and words spoken by Iluvatar (published Sil):And many other things Ilúvatar spoke to the Ainur at that time, and because of their memory of his words, and the knowledge that each has of the music that he himself made, the Ainur know much of what was, and is, and is to come, and few things are unseen by them.But the Ainur's knowledge is incomplete (published Sil):Yet some things there are that they cannot see, neither alone nor taking counsel together; for to none but himself has Ilúvatar revealed all that he has in store, and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past.Now there are many (maybe all?) Elves and a few Men that have this ability. There seem to be only Men with partly Elvish inheritance that are foresighted. How do we explain their foresight? It is tempting to believe that also their glimpses into the future come from Iluvatar, that it is one of the ways of Iluvatar to affect the course of the events in the world. Faramir's dream is a well-known example. Cirdan, Elrond and Galadriel were the most foresighted of the Elves in ME in the third age, and they were also among the chief enemies of Sauron.

An interesting thing about foresight is that it may reveal the consequences of a choice, like when Gandalf advices Thórin to take Bilbo on the quest to Erebor (UT):'Listen to me, Thorin Oakenshield !' I said. 'If this hobbit goes with you, you will succeed. If not, you will fail. A foresight is on me, aid I am warning you.'And when Gilraen's parents are discussing whether or not their daughter should marry Arathorn (LotR, Appendix A):'Arador was the grandfather of the King. His son Arathorn sought in marriage Gilraen the Fair, daughter of Dírhael, who was himself a descendant of Aranarth. To this marriage Dírhael was opposed; for Gilraen was young and had not reached the age at which the women of the Dúnedain were accustomed to marry.
' "Moreover," he said, "Arathorn is a stern man of full age, and will be chieftain sooner than men looked for; yet my heart forebodes mat he will be shortlived."
'But Ivorwen, his wife, who was also foresighted, answered: "The more need of haste! The days are darkening before the storm, and great things are to come. If these two wed now, hope may be born for our people; but if they delay, it will not come while this age lasts."The main outlines of history seems to be pre-destined, but in a small scale the choises of each individual make a significant difference.


Another intersting question is whether something that is foreseen is bound to happen. I think not, but I also think it would be unwise to try to escape the future as seen. It is like Iluvatar is saying: This is what I have in store for you, now I expect you to surrender to it.

At last, is foresight really a gift, as a thing to envy? In the Athrabeth, Finrod says to Andreth (HoME 10): " Foresight is given to the Eldar in many things not far off, though seldom of joy, ....", and I would think his foresight about his own fate and the future of his realm were not easy to bear.

Comments, anyone?


(Btw - hope this is posted in the most appropriate place - I'm not so familiar with this place yet :) )

[Snaga]

Frodo also dreams about the future.

I don't think there is any reason to think that predestiny is implied in foresight. Foresight is really a good prediction. Bad predictions are forgotten, and the good remembered as foresight. Those with insight, knowledge and judgement may predict better than those without it. So 'the Wise' predict better, and then perhaps add persuasion and advice to mold the future to the path they have foreseen. Elrond reminds Aragorn of the words of Malbeth, and hence they are fulfilled. The amount of direct intervention from Iluvatar may not be that great.

[Artanis]

Frodo also dreams about the future.
...
The amount of direct intervention from Iluvatar may not be that great.So, if Iluvatar is not the one who encourages Frodo through his dreams, where in your opinion did those dreams come from?

[Ruinel]

You'll notice that there is a correlation between the sequence a being came into existance and the quantity of foresight. Valar first... Men last.

Eru has always taken a back seat to the tale, allowing it to unfold without his hand. I don't believe foresight is Eru speaking to anyone, but rather a byproduct of being made in the Music, which revealed most of what Eru created and planned, and life unfolds as a lady's fan... most things are meant to be, they are part of the plan.

(I still believe that Melkor's evil was part of the plan. He was in fact made by Eru to be who he was.)

[Artanis]

You'll notice that there is a correlation between the sequence a being came into existance and the quantity of foresight. Valar first... Men last. Well - the Ainur had foreknowledge of certain (not all) parts of the history of Arda, because of the Music. I think we have to distinguish between foreknowledge and foresight, the latter being what I'm talking about here.
Eru has always taken a back seat to the tale, allowing it to unfold without his hand. I don't believe foresight is Eru speaking to anyone, but rather a byproduct of being made in the Music, which revealed most of what Eru created and planned, and life unfolds as a lady's fan... most things are meant to be, they are part of the plan.So what you're saying is that the incidents of foresight that we know of was all in the music? I think it's a rather depressing view ... everything being laid out on beforehand, down to the smallest detail ... does it give any room at all for a personal touch?
(I still believe that Melkor's evil was part of the plan. He was in fact made by Eru to be who he was.) This is another discussion entirely, but - if Eru really meant Melkor to become as evil as he did, then Eru would be a pretty bad guy himself. I still believe that Melkor was not created evil.

Great to have you back here Rui! :)

[Lhunithiliel]

I also find some difference between "foreknowledge" and "foresight".

But .. to the topic.

In a draft-letter, numbered 212 in the compillation of Tolkien's letters, Tolkien comments on the issue:
Elves and Men were called the 'children of God', because they were, so to speak, a private addition to the Design, by the Creator, and one in which the Valar had no part. (Their 'themes' were introduced into the Music by the One, when the discords of Melkor arose.) The Valar knew that they would appear, and the great ones knew when and how (though not precisely), but they knew little of their nature, and their foresight, derived from their pre-knowledge of the Design, was imperfect or failed in the matter of the deeds of the Children. The uncorrupted Valar, therefore, yearned for the Children before they came and loved them afterwards, as creatures 'other' than themselves, independent of them and their artistry, 'children' as being weaker and more ignorant than the Valar, but of equal lineage (deriving being direct from the One); even though under their authority as rulers of Arda.

So, based on this comment, the foresight of Elves and Men can, IMO, be understood.

Also, I'm thinking of the fact that not all Elves and Men had the foresight abilities. Only some did. And those were distinguished among the rest. They were wise, learned, experienced in life ...
Well then, could foresight be a consequence of their individual highly developed conscience and ability to understand, analyse and so "foresee" the future events to come? :rolleyes:

[Artanis]

As for the disstinction between prediction and true foresight, and the misuse of the word "foresight", there is a passage in an essay published in Vinyar Tengwar, it's called Osanwe-kenta.Thanks for the quote Nóm, I've read the Ósanwe-kenta but didn't remember these particular passages. :)
The second underlined section does cause the question: Was this less accurate foresight caused by a muddy translation in the mind or bad signal ;), or that what is foreseen need not come pass because it is not written in the tale of Arda yet? The Essay itself contains information that could be used to build a strong case for the first option.Hehe - muddy translation - I think you're right if you by that mean that the receiver in many cases are not capable of receiving the message correctly, or perhaps not at all. Their fëar were not 'tuned in' to the right channel, so to speak. :D As Lhunithiliel said, not all people had this ability, but it was much more common among Elves than Men, probably because en average Elf had stronger fëa than a Man and were much more in control of it.

[Artanis]

EDIT: By this reasonning any Man in a state to eventually leave the world peacefully at his own will would probably also have a better ability with foresight since his body and spirit have a better relationship, more like an elf's than a average man's. Aragorn and some Numenoreans.You're probably right in most cases, but the ability to lie down and die depends not only on the fëa/rhöa relationship, but also on faith, and knowledge of who and what you are, a child of Eru. This faith is not always present even with Men of great strenght of spirit. Look at the later Númenoréan kings, and Denethor too.

Another big factor may be that Elves have minds more open than Men do. If an open mind is the natural state in Arda Unamarred and the Men are more marred as a race it stands to reason I guess. Also the fact that people under shadow of fear will have minds more shut than those not under fear. This fits in with what we do know about who had foresight abilities. The noblest of people, and most wise for the most part: Elves, then Dunedain, then would be the Middle Men, and last of all the Men of the East who were under great shadow.This sounds reasonable.

But interestingly it is noted that: "No mind can, however, be closed against Eru, either against His inspection or against His message. The latter it may not heed, but it cannot say it did not receive it".
....
So where is the difference between those said to be gifted with it and those not? I am not presently aware of all the references or exact wording , so I just don't know.Well this is pure guessing, but I personally think that Eru picks his tools carefully, choosing those as he know will be most receptive to his messages.
Looking at it that way, all people were capable of foresight. And would this mean that a man's foresight from Eru will have the same accuracy as an elf's would, but his foresight from a Vala would be more distorted?Hm - I think an Elf would be better qualified to interpret a message from Eru than a Man would, and Elves who had lived in Valinor better than, say, the Greenwood Elves, and a Númenoréan better than other Men, due to their superior knowledge and wisdom. I also think that a foresight sent from a Vala is not more 'distorted', it is just a question of having an open mind, as you earlier stated. If your mind is open, you will receive the message, if it is closed you will not receive anything, except from Eru, but then as I said above Eru will probably not send a foresight to someone with a closed mind.

[Artanis]

But then, the faith itself would go hand in hand with someone in a state to have a more open mind, so there would be two factors allowing this kind of man to experience clearer foresight. Openess of the mind and a body that acts as less of a barrier than an averae man's?It is interesting then, to notice that foresight often is given to Elves and Men in the moment of their death. Fëanor, Eöl, Huor ...

Btw, good choice of sig. :)

[Osric]

It is interesting then, to notice that foresight often is given to Elves and Men in the moment of their death. Fëanor, Eöl, Huor...That is an interesting observation!
Fëanor and Eöl, however, hardly died in a 'state of grace' comparable to that which allows Men to peacefully relinquish their lives in the fashion of the N&uacyte;menorean kings, as exemplified by Aragorn in Appendix A.

Elves, of course, were not supposed to relinquish their lives in that fashion: in light of their brand of immortality, to voluntarily die that way was in fact a demonstration of poor moral fibre. But it intriguing to consider that they get a moment of clarity at that key moment -- just when it's too late to do them any good. Given the immortality of the fëa there seems little purpose in their being given a flash of clarity, unless it's for the impact it will have when they share it with those around them!

And whilst the flash of realisation might have in some way chastened Fëanor at the end, Eöl was another case again. The Dark Elf used his last moment to poor bile upon his son, to depress him with foreknowledge (or arguably, more actively, to impose a curse upon him, if one goes down the road of self-fulfillling prophecy).

Cheers,
--Os.