"What if?" - work-book-Archive

[Lhunithiliel]

Now having this space, I would like to invite you here and discuss the problem with the time for the development of one topic.
Elen suggests that we should give a topic as much time as it needs. I see the positive in this, but on the other hand, this game is not an RP, so how can we say that a story has come to an end and be able to introduce the new topic?
I still think a topic should have a certain period of time available, but I was wondering whether a week is not too short one. :confused:

What do you say? :rolleyes:

[Melian]

In my view,it depends on the topic itself.There are some itchy issues that will definitely take more than a week.Moreover,I think the period should be expanded by at least a week so that everybody could see the topic and get involved.
So what's your first suggestion of "What if.."???
I've got an idea waying through my mind but I thnk I'll keep it for some other time.It concerns Hurin...whatever.
Anyway,I absolutely support you about the workbook.Go ahead!

[Nenya Evenstar]

I think that we should use however much time is needed for each topic simply because some topics need more time than others. This way no one would drag out the story just because it isn't supposed to end for another three days, and no one would rush the story because it is supposed to end tomorrow. However, these are just my little thoughts. :D

[Húrin Thalion]

I can cure! I think that you Lhunitiliel should judge when a topic seems unnecessary to continue and if anyone disagrees they'll tell you here.
Still we can set a recommended time of say, two weeks.

Elen

[gate7ole]

I don’t see why we should set strict rules. We should let each story unfold as much as it needs. Of course we can put some flexible limits, say at least 1 week and at most 2 weeks.
The only think I would like to see is more participation. There are 4-5 members that write their stories, though I hope all people read them ;) . Here I would like to properly welcome Elen Carnë, a new guild member that participated in our last What-if story. Elen welcome aboard!
A final suggestion. If you people are familiar with Tolkien’s early work, we could try to write a story that contains some of his rejected concepts (e.g. the Faring Forth). This will be very interesting, because we won’t have an already developed story, since Tolkien never completed his first schemes. What do you say?

[Melian]

Could I possibly disagree with an essay contest winner?:D

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Melian
So what's your first suggestion of "What if.."???
I've got an idea waying through my mind but I thnk I'll keep it for some other time.It concerns Hurin...whatever.
Anyway,I absolutely support you about the workbook.Go ahead! [/B]
My dear Melian, what do you mean by "FIRST suggestion"?
The game has been running for quite some time now! :)
Your idea is pretty good. Keep it in mind!

Now, looking through your comments, I would like to say a few things:

1/ The time limit - how about 1 to 2 weeks (no more), really? I mean, some of the topics have demonstarted they needed more time to develop and others "died" even with the time of one whole week. So, I'd suggest that if a topic does not develop within a week - we stop it and the next one comes. If however a topic is developing well - let's give it two weeks.
2/ The topic itself - Gate7ole, I'm afraid that most of the people haven't read even pieces like the UT, or HoME... Then how could they participate? .... Or if the topic is one of those, that you suggest, then the others may just use ONLY their imagination... :confused:
3/ Participation - I would LOVE that the game would be attended by more people! :)
4/ The form - I would applause ANY new form of developing a topic! We have done "a movie", we have written stories.... Now, I know that the narative form is the easiest... yet, it would be great fun to invent other ways of developing a topic!

Looking forward to your suggestions, comments..AND ....critics! ;) :D

---------------
Oh, I forgot!
WHAT ABOUT THE ON-GOING TOPIC?! ISN'T ANYBODY GOING TO CONTINUE? ;)

[gate7ole]

First Lhu, let's not be too hasty. Remember last time when Nenya didn't get the time to write about her own subject? Also, this activity is the most time-consuming of the forum.
And Elen, the subject is very interesting. Believe me. Escpecially when things progress more.

About my proposal of writing a What-if about Tolkien's earliest concepts, I could provide a summary about the topic. Remember, Tolkien gave us only scratches of his ideas. We would write the story from the beginning with little guidance. But let's discuss it afterwards when the current topic is finished.

Originally posted by Melian
Could I possibly disagree with an essay contest winner?:D
I didn't know that I had such a reputation!

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by gate7ole
First Lhu, let's not be too hasty. Remember last time when Nenya didn't get the time to write about her own subject? Also, this activity is the most time-consuming of the forum.
And Elen, the subject is very interesting. Believe me. Escpecially when things progress more.

About my proposal of writing a What-if about Tolkien's earliest concepts, I could provide a summary about the topic. Remember, Tolkien gave us only scratches of his ideas. We would write the story from the beginning with little guidance. But let's discuss it afterwards when the current topic is finished.

I didn't know that I had such a reputation!
Oh. yes, you do, Gate7ole! :D

I'm sorry if I seem in a rush! It is just that when aI like a topic, I get impatient to watch the development of the events.

This thing with the summary - it could work! We can really give it a try!

[Nenya Evenstar]

Yes, I believe that the new idea with a summary could work very well, and I would give it a try myself. As for the present topic... I'm having problems finding computer time - please forgive me if I do not post in the What If's? for a while.

[Gil-Galad]

As I said in the thread:"what if question" 14 days are enough for everybody to write really good things.And then I'll read them (I love reading your stories guys) and according to what was written I would very much like to judge whose story was most interesing.............
If it's possible of course.

[Lhunithiliel]

I have an idea for the next topic.
Look at these quotes:
.....for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her, and feared her more than all others whom Eru made.
and
When Manwë there ascends his throne and looks forth, if Varda is beside him, he sees further than all other eyes, through mist, and through darkness, and over the leagues of the sea.
All right.... Now,
WHAT IF Varda had accepted to be with Melkor?
Imagine then:
When MELKOR there ascends his throne and looks forth, if Varda is beside him, he sees further than all other eyes, through mist, and through darkness, and over the leagues of the sea.
Do you like it? My imagination EXPLODES at the thought of this possibility! ;)

[Melian]

That's EXACTLY what I thought to pm to you!!!!!!!!!!!!
My imagination explodes,too:D :D :D
If One villian could cause so much trouble to the Valar,I dare not think what Two of them (the mightiest two spirits!) could come up with!Imagine--the dark lord has a dark queen...
But you know,I tend to think that eventually they would've destroyed each other with hatred.Evil does not suggest peaceful partnership and fair play.

[Lhunithiliel]

My dearest country-fellow...ess ;) :D,
Isn't it strange we are both thinking about one and the same thing?!! :)
So, I see YOU like the idea.... How about the others?
Or maybe we shall first try one of Gate7ole's suggested Tolkien-non-finished stories?
Gate7ole, will you give a summary of one of these and the rest will see whether it will work or not? :rolleyes:
And I would very much like to learn about the topic me and Melian have in mind, too.
Melian, .... You know, I'd rather not let these two destroy each other.... Though... I don't know what will happen...
Sometimes, I sit to write a "chapter" for a "What if?"-topic having a definite idea...and soon after I have started writing, the story itself leads to quite a different outcome... Last it happened with the story about Isildur... I had no idea I'd come up with a dream!

[gate7ole]

Instead of writing a summary, I should better quote from the Book of Lost Tales I & II:
The Elves’ prophecy is that one day they will fare forth from Tol Eressea and on arriving in the world will gather all their fading kindred who will live in the world and march towards Valinor. This they will only do with the help of Men. If Men aid them, the fairies will take Men to Valinor –those that wish to go- fight a great battle will take Melko in Erumani and open Valinor. Laurelin and Silpion will be rekindled and the mountain wall being destroyed then soft radiance will spread over all the world, and the Sun and Moon will be recalled. If Men oppose them and aid Melko the Wrack of the Gods and the ending of the fairies will result - and maybe the Great End.

*the battle of Erumani is the last battle of the Valar with Morgoth at the plains of Valinor.
This is a passage that clarifies the matter of the Faring Forth. It is a prophecy and thus can be interpreted as anyone wishes.

Tolkien also wrote another short passage, giving a disastrous outcome of the prophecy:
…the time is not ready for the Faring Forth, but the fairies judge it to be necessary. They obtain through Ulmo the help of Uin, and Tol Eressea is uprooted and dragged near to the Great Lands, nigh to the promontory of Ros. A magic bridge is cast across the intervening sound. Osse is wroth at the breaking of the roots of the isle he set so long ago –and many of his rare sea-treasures grow about it- that he tries to wrench it back; and the western half breaks off, and is now the Isle of Iverin.
The battle of Ros: the Island-elves and the Lost-Elves against Nautar, Gongs, Orcs and a few evil Men. Defeat of the Elves. The fading elves retire to Tol Eressea and hide in the woods.
Men come to Tol Eressea and also Orcs, Dwarves, Gongs, Trolls etc. After the Battle of Ros the Elves faded with sorrow. They cannot live in air breathed by a number of Men equal to their own or grater; and ever as Men wax more powerful and numerous so the fairies fade and grow small and tenuous, filmy and transparent, but Men larger and more dense and gross. At last Men, or almost all, can no longer see the fairies.
The Gods now dwell in Valinor, and come scarcely ever to the world, being content with the restraining of the elements from utterly destroying Men. They grieve much at what they see; but Iluvatar is over all.
* Ros: the capital of Tol Eressea
Nautar: the dwarves which are evil at this stage of mythology
Gongs: probably the goblins
This is the most important info about the Faring Forth. If it sounds interesting, we can start writing about it, without being obliged to follow the unhappy ending that Tolkien had in mind.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I love the idea Lhun! Can't wait - I will most assuredly take part in that episode.

And Gate7ole's as well - blast posting at the same time. :D

[Lhunithiliel]

Ever since I read about that "Last battle" I have felt so content about the glory of the eventual possible alliance of Gods, Elves and Men....
And now this!
I like it, no doubt!!!!
I am however wondering.... Will 14 days be enough to develop the story?
Which leads me to something a guild-mate (sorry, I can't now remember who exactly) suggested some time ago - a RP ...
What do you say?
I, personally, don't know much about starting and playing RP, though I have read instructions on the matter.
But THIS TOPIC, IMO, deserves it!

Well?:rolleyes:

[gate7ole]

The last story was really great. Well done Lhinithiliel and Elen.
I guess that we should now move to the next subject. Having two alternatives, we can choose one for now, and the other for afterwards. The choice is yours:)
As for the RP, personally I don't have any xp at all. We shouldn't try to dive in deep waters, without any guidance.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I have RP experience... and I can assure you all that you would do just fine. We could give it a try.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'm glad you liked the story!
Oh, Elen, I was almost crying myself when I finished writing. ;) In fact I wanted to write one more chapter - charged with more "positive" emotions, but enough is enough.
It's time for the new topic.

Now, we are having a dillema, right?
Shall we take the "Melkor-Varda"-topic for the "What if"-game and with the help of Nenya try the other one in a RP?
OR
Shall we chose one of the two topics for the "What if"-game ONLY?
Today is Tuesday - HIGH time to start a new topic.
So, let's make our choice today.
All right? :)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Very well! Let's settle it tonight, today, whenever! ;) I suggest that we take the Melkor-Varda topic at the moment in What If? form. This would give us time to discuss our RP idea in the meantime and get something good going. So, I say we start the What If? and discuss the RP.

[Lhunithiliel]

I agree.
What about the others?
Nenya, is the Melkor-Varda topic is accepted for the next in the "What if?"-game, will you start the topic? :) You can chose whatever form you like.

[gate7ole]

I agree too.
Nenya, you can start the Melkor-Varda topic and at the same time, we can discuss the RP details in this thread.

[Lhunithiliel]

We have been expecting Nenya to start the new topic, but she PM-ed me that she was not able to use a computer for some time. She said she was grounded ;) No wonder! Having more than 1200 posts ... Nenya, you must have really needed a break :D

This is why I will post the beginning today and if I don't make it today, then it will be tomorrow and then we shall have full 2-weeks-time to dvelop the story Melkor+Varda.

[Gil-Galad]

Hmm,the most interesting "what if" question is coming.And again Lhun was the heart and the soul of the thread!!!:)

[Nenya Evenstar]

She said she was grounded No wonder! Having more than 1200 posts ... Nenya, you must have really needed a break
Break? :eek: I'm afraid that's not in my native language. ;) But anyway, I'm back now and will post when I can. Please forgive me for the confusion.

[Lhunithiliel]

:D
Oh, Gate7ole!
What's that obcession with having a war! :eek:
But wait and see what I'm going to post ;)
We have almost full two weeks' time ahead!
I intend to bring forward a new surprise!
Because the more unexpected turns the story has, the more interesting it becomes! Right? :D

You know what I'm only sorry about? -
I'd really like more people to participate in the story! Imagine! As many people - so many opinions on the development and the outcome of the story! It wouls have been much more interesting!
However, we both are doing it fine :D

Nenya, my dear, welcome back!

[Húrin Thalion]

Oooh I'm not sure that I'm going to make a try in this one. That is because though I am not religious I see the divine goodness as irrevocable and har to write about... What the heck let's do it anyway. But this was the actual reason for me not posting in this topic.

Elen or E.C

[Nenya Evenstar]

Nenya, my dear, welcome back!
Thanks, Lhun! :)

Elen, I just utilize the idea that everything that happens in Ea will eventually come about to the glory and praise of Eru - makes for some great ideas.

[Lhunithiliel]

Nenya, what you have written is wonderful!

Oh, those wars! Now I shall have to think over my idea of continuing the story :)

I was thinking last night about the organization of the game......

Do you think it will be suitable if we set up a certain order of posting?
I mean, at the beginning of each game, we can "admit" those, who wish to participate in the current story, then we make them in order - for ex. Elen posts first, Nenya - 2-nd, Gate7ole - third ... etc.

I somehow think it will give some good rythm to the development of the story.

What do you think?

[Nenya Evenstar]

Thanks Lhun! :) I love the idea of an order! It would make things easier for me because I would have a certain time in which to post in the game and not have the open opportunity to post after every other post. What If? is definitely one of the more time-consuming things on board, and it's a big load to try to post as much as that.

[Húrin Thalion]

I support that great idea Lhun! And if you cannot write for a while just put it up and we'll continue the order.

Elen

[gate7ole]

Mmm, am I the only one who does NOT want a fixed order of story-tellers?
1) If I have this great idea bout how to continue the story and it's not my turn, then the idea may be wated.
2) On the reverse, if someone doesn't have any ideas at the moment, but wants to participate in the story, it would be wrong to force the story go on.

So, I suggest: leave it as it is (with only one change, that me and Lhun will not be too anxious to continue the story and wait for a while). Or at least, if evryone wants an order, let it not be too strick.

[Lhunithiliel]

Da-a-a-a-a!
(in translation into English : Yea-a-a-a :) )

You know, you're right Gate7ole!
Let's leave it this way. Creativity should not be restrained in some bonds and limits...
I don't know how it is with you all, but to write sth. for our game it must first be "born" in the mind. Right? And such things surely don't happen by order.... They just happen! :rolleyes:


So... Who's next? That war that broke out confused a little "my plans" ;) Well, I have an idea of what Varda is up to... Let's see if I find time today to write a new episode....
-------
Gate7ole, did you look at my UT project? What do you say?

BTW, if you or anybody else is interested to work with me on this, just let me know. Your participation will be most welcome :)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Very well, the plan for the What If's sounds good to me. I would post but don't wish to double post, so that's not possible. :D

Lhun, I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help in an UT project... I haven't read it yet.

[Lhunithiliel]

I've been reading the "What if?"-game's first topics and you know.......we have mastered the story-telling, which I love!, but how about picking up the next topic to be one that we could sort of discuss.....as with the topic about "Melkor's tune"?

I think that the topic gate7ole suggested could give us this opportunity.

What do you think?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I think that that would be better than the RP idea. The way we're writing now is pretty close to an RP, so it wouldn't be much of a change. So, I'm all for discussing.

[gate7ole]

RP, discussion all sound good. But we have to finish our current story before trying anything new.

P.S. For the RP, we (I) will need some instructions.

[Nenya Evenstar]

P.S. For the RP, we (I) will need some instructions.

I'd be more than willing to give instructions to anyone who needs them. :)

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by gate7ole
But we have to finish our current story before trying anything new.
Sure!
Speaking of which....... in the non-officially established "order" of developing the story, I'm eager to see your new episode! ;) :) :D or Nenya's, or somebody's who is willing to stand against my "Avenging Angel of Light"! :)
It will be quite a battle (if any!) between the Spear of the Flame and the Sword of Aule!

[Nenya Evenstar]

I hadn't posted because I felt that if I did I might be stepping on people's toes where I wasn't welcome. So am I able to post whenever now that we have developed this unofficial order?

Very well, Elen... I will post sometime today. :)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Wonderful story, everyone! :) So, what shall our new story be? Are we going to do our discussion of Gate7ole's topic, or are we going to try the RP idea? I think we should do Gate's topic and discuss the RP since we didn't do that during this topic. :p

[Lhunithiliel]

I suggest we do a discussion of the topic Gate7ole offered.

If all agree, I would like to invite gate7ole to start the new topic :)

[Nenya Evenstar]

If all agree, I would like to invite gate7ole to start the new topic

Aye and Aye! :) Sounds like a plan.

[gate7ole]

Maybe it's time for another Game. And we could return to the descriptive style. Any ideas?

[Lhunithiliel]

OK!
It seems the story-telling is more popular and I fully understand this!
Such a thing make us create!
We can have discussions and debates elsewhere. Right?
About the new topic...... Lots of ideas....... How about this one:

After the victorious end of the War of the Ring... in Minas Tirith.... Aragorn is awaiting for Arwen... But a messenger comes with a letter from Rivendell ....

I will consider any other idea, though! :)

[Húrin Thalion]

Hey!!!!!!! Are you not gonna let me throw in my thoughts on the faring forth!!!! I am truly upset (or not) and I beg you to wait just until tomorrow with the new topic! I think there should be more discussions in this guild for now it feels like we are mostly posting about the guild itself. And that is not the purpose of the guild even if that debate must be too. Even if our Guildmaster is away and without assistant we should start new discussions and such. This would draw inactive members back I think. So let us discuss while not debating!

Húrin Thalion

[gate7ole]

Húrin Thalion, you have much time to discuss the Faring Forth. We will keep it for a few days more. It's just that we're searching the new topic.

[Lhunithiliel]

To those wo would wish to go on participating in this game:

Let us ASAP suggest some good topics for a next game, this time in story-telling-style.

[Gil-Galad]

hey guys,I had some problems with my server,and I wasn't able to read anything from the "what...if" thread,but now I'm back:) .I'm glad to see you again:)

[Lhunithiliel]

I was not quite happy with the topic I had suggested a few posts ago, and NOONE had suggested another :( ......

While I was reading through the wonderfully going discussion Hurin started, I thought:

"What if Feanor had gone to Manwe and discussed his intentions to go to ME and build a new world there - kingdoms with lands for all the Elves in those vast territories..... And What if they had agreed on this plan? "

How do you like that?
---

With all the new things going on in the Guild, we have abandoned our game :(

[Húrin Thalion]

I think that would make an excellent topic, go ahead and start it when you will Lhun!

Húrin Thalion

[gate7ole]

Wonderful topic, but also very broad! It will need to rewrite the Sil!

[Lhunithiliel]

True! :eek:
Then???????

[Lhunithiliel]

I have started the new game as STORY TELLING.

I think it would be better to keep one style of each game :)
As this one is the "story"-type, I would like to ask everybody who participates to keep it this way and write an episode-continuation of the story of the previous participant, even if it is a short episode. But is should be like a story!

O K ??? :)

As the topic may lead to "re-writing the Silmarillion" (as you have said), I suggest we develop it till the moment Feanor and his companions set foot on the shores of ME.

[Húrin Thalion]

All seems good with the new "What if" topic but I'm just wodering, what time is this? Gate7 says that is after the slaying of Finwë and the destruction of the trees while Lhun says that Finwë actually participated the council and that there was light. :confused: I'm really confused here now (as always).

Húrin Thalion

[Lhunithiliel]

Mmmmmmmm...
:confused: :confused:
Did I not understand?
But I've checked gate7ole's story.... I couldn't see that Finwe was slain or/and the trees had perished?
Sorry!!!!

[Húrin Thalion]

To gather all their strength and assail their foe Morgoth to revenge the slaying of their king.

I meant this phrase, and it was only after the perishing aof the trees and Finwë that Melkor was called Morgoth. Just wondering.

húrin thaluion

[gate7ole]

To tell you the truth, I thought that Finwë was considered dead. It seems that I misunderstood the subject. I’ll try to edit my post to be consistent.

[Lhunithiliel]

Well, boys, you have perhaps understood that I hate violence.
So, my "What if"-idea was to avoid Finwe's death and the kinslaying (sp? :o ) and all those horrors that followed....

Especially now, before Christmas! ;) :)

Hurin, let's say Finwe is not dead. Let's continue it as the primary idea was - "What if Manwe had let the Elves leave Aman freely?"

********

Can you, BTW, help me understand how is it that you use the special symbols as in "Finwë" ?

[gate7ole]

I'm sorry to say that I will not be posting in the What-if section from now on. I already regret it but I have involved myself in so many projects lately and I must leave one at least. Choosing the one was a difficult task and sadly the writing lost to the searching and studying of Tolkien's work.
Lhun, I hope you'll forgive me. Of course, I will definitely read all your stories and maybe post from time to time.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'm kidding, of course!
Gate7ole, I understand you...... But writing is a matter of inspiration. It is certainly NOT some duty! Whenever you feel the inspiration from inside, you're welcome to post what comes out of it.

I am SO SORRY that you are abandoning this game! ...
But I can't force you to stay, can I!

[Gil-Galad]

gate7ole,who will write interesting stories?:( Lhun write some but without you the "What if Game" won't be the same:( .I hope you will come back soon:( :( :( .....

[Gil-Galad]

Lhun ,I wonder when a new topic will be posted in the "What If Game".Obviously nobody is going to post something else about the last topic:(

[Lhunithiliel]

Yes, G-G,
Unfortunately, the two most active "writers" here have been swept away with organizational matters of the Guild and the game has suffered.

But, PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE, YOU SUGGEST A NEW TOPIC!

I'll be glad to participate in it!

[Húrin Thalion]

You asked foer a new topic, and I have thoguth of one. I'd say that we shouldn't make it as broad as last one but not too narrow either so it is a hard question. I'd prefer something from Beleriand or LotR, so that is were my suggestion comes from: What would have happened if Fëanor's sons had not sworn their oath? This may be a little to wide but tell me what you think about it.

Húrin Thalion

[Lhunithiliel]

And what about this one?

"What if the Oathbreakers had not come to the Stone of Erech?"

[Morgoth]

I'd like to apologise for putting a new question on the what if thread. I didn't realise that question had been done before, and didn't appreaciate the short amount of time that Gil-Galad's question had been on for so G-G, I'm sorry.
I'm working on a new fiction, for the What If Feanor's sons had not sworn their oath, and it should be on the thread by next week-end. Cheers. :)

[Lhunithiliel]

I just can't bare the thought that the ONLY 5-stars-thread of our Guild is on page 2!

I am reviving the game!

Everyone who wishes to participate - I would be more than happy to read your suggestions about a new topic for the "What-if?"-game.

I'll wait for your entries :) :cool:

[Beleg]

Hehe, Writing and the what-if game! Why didn't i notice this thread before!!! :confused:

The topic should be such that if the task mentioned would have been undertook then it would have effected Middle Earth greatly.
So my Question (And i do hope Lhun you'll consider it) will be.

What would have happened If Finarfin had also come with the host of Fingolfin?

[Lhunithiliel]

" Why didn't i notice this thread before!!! "
BECAUSE it was on page 2!
:eek:

Anyway, isn't it a far too broad topic, Beleg?

How about
"What if Turin did not kill Beleg?" ;)

[Beleg]

What if Turin did not kill Beleg?"

Poor poor Beleg finally got some recognization! But i guess that's an interesting topic. the answer isn't clear in my mind atleast. (But surely someone grave might have been avoided if the greatest huntsman of First Age wouldn't have been killed:eek: :confused: :cool:

[Lhunithiliel]

So, let the game begin!
I'll revise the chapters in the Silmarillion and in all other sources that tell about the story and open the game with my initial post.

Oh! I can't wait!

[Morgoth]

I've got a suggestion for a future game: What If Melkor Broke Free From The Void as Sauron Fell?

[Morgoth]

How about it? I think it would make for some good fictions.

[Lhunithiliel]

Ooooooo, No!
Wait a minute, My Dark Lord! ;)
Me and Beleg haven't finished the previous game yet!!!!

Besides, let me remind that each game usually has about two weeks' time to develop. The present one has had only one so far.

:D

[Morgoth]

No, no, you misunderstood. I didn't mean right now, I'm enjoying this current game as well! No, in my post I put "in the future" because that's where I meant it to be, in the future and not right now! :D Sorry about the misunderstanding, I didn't mean to seem like I was trying to get rid of the current game.

[Lhunithiliel]

Common now! Don't panic! :rolleyes:
It's so.... unMorgoth-ish...;) :D :D

I understand you now and we might have this in mind. But let's see what Beleg has to say about your attemt to "kill" him so mercilessly after I have saved his life! :D

[Morgoth]

It is such a shame that in my absence a great thread has not been posted in as often as it should have. So I would like to suggest a new What If question:
What If The Istari Had Not Come To Middle Earth?
Any comments?

[Gil-Galad]

This is quite a huge topic because it is about 2000years.The Istari's presence was in Middle-earth too long and it will be really difficult to write about all these years.
I suppose we can write about a definite period of III age.A period in which we can just forget about the Istari.
Actually everything depends on the others,if there is somebody who wants to write about all 2000 years he is most welcome.It would be quite interesting!!

[Lhunithiliel]

Morgoth, I am so glad about your post! I LOVE my "baby"... I vcan't help it! ;) :D

But G-G is right. The topic you propose is very huge! It is worth a whole RPG! ;) And the WIG-s deal with shorter events.
Can you think of something shorter in time?
I'd love to see a new story on the way!

For those Interested, I have opened a WIG at the sister MERPG - site. I'll provide a link if wanted.

[Morgoth]

I'm not sure if this really helps the length of time period, but a good question would be to ask What If Only ONE Istari Came To Middle Earth. But other than that, I cant think of anything that could make it much shorter. But hey, I'll work on it :D ;)

[Gil-Galad]

I still think that it is not clear enough.The topic is still too big.But if you want we can start.
Morgoth,can you think a little bit more,I mean try to shorten the period.

[Morgoth]

Doing my best at the moment G-G, but the right wording escapes me. I should be able to get it correct by the weekend.

[Gil-Galad]

Ok,we are eager to start the new "session" so post your update as soon as possible!!:) ;)

[Manveru]

Since Morgoth is still "hesitating" I have a little suggestion, may I? Go and see for yourself... what could have happened if Morgoth had been hesitating just for a sec during his duel...

:D

[Gil-Galad]

OOOoo YEAH!!!!What would have happened if Morgoth had been hasitating just for a sevond during the duel?!!
I like this one pretty much!!Really,I do!
Let's start it?!

[Manveru]

I did that already... go to the "What if? game" thread...

Have fun...

:D

[Gil-Galad]

I just too a sight at it!!!Yeah,I would like to post something,but still I am too busy-I am already late with my lecture(OMG it will be something hugeeeee),I participate in the last debate of our Guild,I host a debate between GoO and GoS,and at the same time I am preparing our intra debate activity and the changes for the Gallery.I wish I were like Napoleon,to be able to do 7 differnet together.....:( ;)

[Manveru]

Well, you need to get used to that, your Highness;):p:D.

Seriously... don't worry. I'm sure there will be others... eager to participate:D. I'm awaiting especially Lhun's reaction--she likes this thread so much;). C'mon, boss... where are you?

:D

[Gil-Galad]

I remember the time when she and Gate7ole wrothe such works,that others were ready to believe they were written by Tolkien himself!!!
I hope,someday,when Gate7ole returns,thisplace will be again like an year ago.

[Manveru]

Gee, that was fast:D.
Those "hasty" Morgoths (both, the real one and that from the forum;)). They always "finish" so quick. And I thought (yeah, that crazy thought came thru my mind;)) how to turn "gently" the tide and try to write about Fingolfin's victory... but Fingolfin's "finished" again (so is this 'episode' of What if?-game;) Be sure not to miss another show. Stay tuned. Until then... tururue:D).

Who'd like to start another "What if?", eh? Anyone?

[Gil-Galad]

I suppose Morgoth has finally clarified his "What If"question.

[Lhunithiliel]

Urrrrr..If I may....
I have a topic.
Would you like to "play":

“What if Manwe and Eru did not punish the Numenoreans of Ar-Pharazon for coming to Aman, but accepted them with honour and in consent with their desire for immortality?”

Moreover, I had already written the first part! :p :D

[Manveru]

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
Urrrrr..If I may....
I have a topic.
Would you like to "play":

“What if Manwe and Eru did not punish the Numenoreans of Ar-Pharazon for coming to Aman, but accepted them with honour and in consent with their desire for immortality?”

Moreover, I had already written the first part! :p :D
Then post it, Lhun (gosh, I wanted to put "boss" in here--old habits die hard;))... I'm sure someone will follow your thought...

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Manveru:
Then post it, Lhun (gosh, I wanted to put "boss" in here--old habits die hard.

Originally posted by Manveru:
Yeah, I won't call anyone else "boss"... this one is "reserved" for you, mummy.

:p :D

But I'll post it! :)

[Gil-Galad]

It is unfair!!Such interesting "What if question" and no time to participate :( :mad:

[Morgoth]

Lhunithiel, when you want the current round to end, I would like to suggest my finalised version of the 'Istari' question. It's quite different to how it originally started out, but I think it may work:
'What If Radagast had particpated for good in the Battle Of The Pelennor Fields?'

[Gil-Galad]

Ok this topic is better than the previous ideas.Actually it is quite intersting.
After the end of the round,I let start the topic which Morgoth suggested.After that I will keep the next topic in secret because it was offered by one of the most honoured and respected members in TTF and the topic is really(really really) interesting :) :D

*Surprise!!*:)

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Morgoth
Lhunithiel, when you want the current round to end, I would like to suggest my finalised version of the 'Istari' question. It's quite different to how it originally started out, but I think it may work:
'What If Radagast had particpated for good in the Battle Of The Pelennor Fields?'
It's OK but..... I am waiting for someone to continue the present story!:rolleyes:
C'mon, writers! ;)

[Arvedui]

Originally posted by Gil-Galad
After that I will keep the next topic in secret because it was offered by one of the most honoured and respected members in TTF and the topic is really(really really) interesting :) :D

*Surprise!!*:)
I can't wait!!!!

(Well, actually I can...)

[Manveru]

Originally posted by Gil-Galad
Ok this topic is better than the previous ideas.Actually it is quite intersting.
After the end of the round,I let start the topic which Morgoth suggested.After that I will keep the next topic in secret because it was offered by one of the most honoured and respected members in TTF and the topic is really(really really) interesting :) :D

*Surprise!!*:)
Originally posted by Arvedui
I can't wait!!!!

(Well, actually I can...)
Hmm... I "smell" sth very interesting... I wonder who that "one of the most honoured and respected members in TTF" might be?:rolleyes: ;) :D
Originally posted by Lhunithiliel:
t's OK but..... I am waiting for someone to continue the present story!:rolleyes:
C'mon, writers!;)
:eek: We've got "writers" on the forum?! WOW!! C'mon. Where are you?

:D

[Morgoth]

Well, the current topic has been up for a while, and i dont want to seem like im trying to take charge and rush things, but I would really like to know what this amazing question is. So, if the powers that be allow it, could Gil-Galad possibly tell us the question that we have been dying to here :D
P.S. This thread should also be sticky, as well as the Hall Of Essays work book.

[Gil-Galad]

Morgoth "The Hall of Essays -work book" is not sticky,only the Halls are sticky ;)

Ok,then,I am eager too to post the new What If topic:

by Arvedui
What if the armies of Gondor and Cirdan had arrived before the Witch-king had defeated Arnor and King Arvedui?

Could have had some interesting long-term consequenses...


I would like to thank Arvedui for this really interesting and difficult topic. :)
Come on Writers!!!

[Arvedui]

Originally posted by Manveru
Hmm... I "smell" sth very interesting... I wonder who that "one of the most honoured and respected members in TTF" might be?:rolleyes: ;) :D
It is just Gil-Galad overdoing things.
Until he posted it, I thought he had another one coming...

[Gil-Galad]

This wonderful topic?Overdoing?!No way ;) :p

[Lhunithiliel]

I feel as if there is a dark spell cast on the "What if" - games!
No matter how good a topic is, it just don't develop!!!

WHY ???

I really can't understand! :confused:

Anyway, since the boys did not do anything on their wonderful "battle"-story, I would like to suggest a new one. Let's see if it gets more lucky...

"WHAT IF ALDARION - ERENDIS 'S STORY WAS DEVELOPING AT THE TIME OF THE DROWNING OF NUMENOR?"

To be more precise in time - A&E when Ar-Pharazon is already completely obsessed by the idea of attacking Valinor and turns to Aladrion's Guild of Mariners with the task to build him the fleet for the assault.

Now.. I would suggest that people whio wish to participate in this game "check in" here and after we get the volunteers, we can start the game.

BTW, if the GoT - community and ARVEDUI wish, we can first give a chance to the previous topic and then return to the one I suggest.

Opinions??? :)

[Gil-Galad]

I still find Arvedui's topoic pretty interesting.I hope that somebody will start it and then I will continue it and the somebody else......... ;)

[Lhunithiliel]

Then, please, find this "somebody" and let him/her start the game! :)

Meanwhile, I am still recruiting volunteers for my suggested topic. ;) :D

[Manveru]

Geesh, what a mess 'round here...
For the past couple of months this thread was rather turned into "suggest a topic and then leave it" thing... (it's so much fun:D) c'mon! so many topics... so little "words" that speak of them...
Now I see we have some kind of "competition";): which topic will gather more volunteers to be eager to participate in, eh? (better than to let this wonderful thread "die out"...).
So... should I choose or what? I mean... I volunteer...

[Gil-Galad]

Well I am not that good with the beginnings so can you start Manv?With Arvedui's topic?I will continue it ;)

[Lhunithiliel]

All right, boys, let's do either the one or the other. :p
What about Arvedui?
But ... it seems he's away for some time and so I suggest you do sth. about that battles-topic, once you wish to go on with it first. I'll watch... I'm not too good with battle-scenes.
But meanwhile the story-line of my suggested topic is developing in my head so i will be soon ready to post the initial post ... But I'll play the "gentleman" and let you go first with your topic! I give you a deadline, though - one week!!! :p :D :D :D If in one week's time there's no development of Arvedui's topic, I'll start mine! Fair??? (...and even if it is not.... will you oppose a Nazgul? :p :D )

[Gil-Galad]

It seems fair.I hope that Manveru will start with it,as I said I am not that good with the beginnings. :o

[Manveru]

Wait... wait... wait just a minute here. Sorry to disappoint you, but a week is too short a time for me. You see, I'm so "ignorant", though my Maia says it's not that important;), I must admit that in my journeys thru that world of master T. I haven't wandered so far away yet...
So how am I gonna write of sth which I hardly know anything about...
Sorry again, GG... cannot "catch up with it" in a week (don't think so... don't even have right materials to do so...).
Maybe someone else can start this...

Have fun,
"ignorant" arch.

[Arvedui]

So where do we start writing?

This Guild is such a mess, that I can't find my way around here...:D :p :D :D

I see that Lhun has already started her story, and if I start mine, then it will all be a mess, won't it?
I suggest that we finish off Lhun's first, then we can continue with my suggestion on Círdan & co. (And it will give me some extra time that I can spend preparing the opening, and also take care of the Great Hall of Elves...

You guys are really taking a toll on my time;)

[Gil-Galad]

Ok,then I suppose Lhun can start with the What If story? ;)

[Arvedui]

Just for the record: I am not afraid of a Wraith! I am already dead, you see...


Wait a minute! That is not the Aldarion - Erendis thing she suggested, but another Númenor-related topic!

[Manveru]

Just for the record: I am not afraid of a Wraith! I am already dead, you see...


Wait a minute! That is not the Aldarion - Erendis thing she suggested, but another Númenor-related topic!
Aha... that's right. The one (of many) that was abandoned...
I guess you have a week... and then... if not started... you know the rest...;)

[Arvedui]

And I thought that I was clever and had managed to get a little more time... oh well......


But someone has continued it, so I guess I'll have to wait after all.:)

[Gil-Galad]

Ok I guess we can finish this topic and start Arvedui's one.I hope that he will start it ;),though he is oficially dead :p

[Arvedui]

You mean, right now?

In that case I will have to go away from the computer immediately and be writing for the rest of the evening.

I will have something ready by this time tomorrow, I think. At least a couple of lines, and then the rest of you can finish it off over the next couple of pages.:D

[Lhunithiliel]

Hey!!! What is all this disorder here?!!???

Ah! Men!!!! :p

Listen to me now ..... if you please....

First, as Eledwhen has continued the Numenor story (wonderfully done, El!!!), let give it a go and whoever wishes, please post on the Numenor story until it expires.(when?... when its time comes... it depends on how we lead the story...)

Second, AFTER the Numenor story is finished, King Arvedui, please, you're most welcome to start your story! Thus you have plenty of time to prepare . (Am I not merciful !!! :p)

Third, AFTER Arvedui's story is finished, we may do my Aldarion-Erendis story.

But while I was writing the last line a thought came: .... the Aldarion - Erendis story in the time of atalante of Numenor (as is the presently going story) can be placed within the present story....

What do you think? Would you like it this way?

***

Now ... just some brief explanations for the "newbies" here in the Halls of tale-telling :
The present thread is the place to put forward and discuss "What if" - games topics and for any other related matters. So, any questions, suggestions etc. - please post HERE!

The "What if?" - game - thread is for the stories themselves and ONLY for the stories! When a new story starts, the starter is supposed to put the name of the story at the very beginning of the first post as a title. Thus we'll know that a new topic is on the way.

[Gil-Galad]

Very nice post Lhun.I want to thank you for it:).

Hey,listen to the Wraith Lady ...... ;)

[Helcaraxë]

GG, is it OK if I talk about a very early topic in the What if game thread as long as I discuss it in the workbook and not thread itself? If not, I'll delete this...

If one argues that good and evil are not relative I'd like to hear their reasoning.

I believe good and evil are not relative. First, we must define "evil." I think it can only be defined pragmatically, in terms of its effects. Any action, when considered is meaningless if you don't look at its effects. What are the effects of evil? Harm, discord, chaos. Thus we can define evil as the cause of these things, the cause of harm, discord, and chaos. If we don't see evil pragmatically, and distinction between good and evil becomes enitrely arbitrary, and has no basis at all in any observable characteristic. So Melkor is "evil"; he is the causer of discord. Melkor's discord would still be present if he won over. Hence, he would still be considered by some to be "evil." So I think it would be as Lhun described, with chaos and darkness reigning over order and light.

Second: [people were discussing whether Melkor could supplant Eru..] Ontologically, there is no way that Melkor could win over the will of Eru. The only way this could happen is if He allowed it to. Melkor could never become the one, could never displace Eru. The Flame Imperishable is Eru's and Eru's alone to give. It is far, far beyond the power of anything created by Eru to defeat his will.


~Helcaraxë

[Morgoth]

Is anyone going to start their What If...? question, whoever was chosen to do so, or is the current topic not finished, Lhun? I do have a question of my own, but it isnt very good, and I would very much like to participate in one of fantastic topics that have been suggested?

[Gil-Galad]

It seems that everybody is pretty busy these days,including me.

If nobody starts the topic in 7days I suggest to change it.

Morgoth,what is your idea?You can post it here