Project - The Study

[Finduilas]

While reading through the Appendices of LOTR, it came to the mind that there are dozens of events, characters, items etc. that need a thorough and profound research and study if one would claim true knowledge in Tolkien.

It apears that there is a lot of information that can be found on each of the above, which information, however, is scattered throughout the books. Besides, there surely are other reliable sources such as for example Ch.Tolkien's notes, as well as comments, essays etc. by other true loremasters dedicated to Tolkien.
So,

My idea is the following:

We put forward an item, do a profound and broad research and provide any piece of information found in the sources each of us have.

The Main thread (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?p=233264#post233264), where one can read the results from the study - research, is to be found in the "Library of the Istary" - section, where all lore is kept.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
First topic :
The Elfstone of Aragorn


THE ELFSTONE OF ARAGORN

Ok,I have a question- Aragorn was called Elfstone,didn't he?:confused: So the research will actually be for Aragorn?:confused:

[FoolOfATook]

Aragorn was called Ellesar, or Elfstone, but he got the nickname from the people of Minas Tirith because of the Elf-jewel he wore, although he got this nickname because of a sort of prophesy, and Arwen calls him Elfstone in the message she sends along with the standard... I think that Lhun is suggesting that someone study the history of the actual jewel the Elfstone. Right Lhun?

[Lhunithiliel]

I mean EVERYTHING related.
And I mean we ALL do research on a suggested topic = item, event, place, character....whatever.

Let's see.... What is known about the Elf jewel?
> it's green: is there any information on the stone it was made of?
> it had been given to Aragorn : let's gather information on this - who gave it to him and why?
> it is believed that it had been made by Celembrimbor for Galadriel: let's trace the story.
.....
See? just EVERY and ANY piece of information that we ALL could find in the various books.

I somehow see Tolkien's world as a puzzle-game >>> every each item there is in its right place, for a certain purpose and inevitably related and connected to the other pieces... If we study every piece, than we can get the whole picture... Right?

[Finduilas]

OK, I'll start imediately. Thank you for the explanation.:)

[gate7ole]

Excellent idea.
It needs though a bit of organization. Should someone just start searching for info about the subject and post it at this thread? Then many things may be told again and again and we won't reach somewhere. Also, when is a topic considered finished?

On the other hand, it might be good if each topic is not assigned to a particular group each time. Just when someone feels like getting involved in a certain topic, s/he can participate freely.

So, to balance between these two, I would propose that for each subject, anyone can get invlolved, search for info and then post it at the thread only if this info hasn't been told by anyone yet. Just a quote may be enough, or in some occasions, a summary of the found passage. The end of each topic will be determined, when there are no posts from anyone for a certain time-period. Then, a volunteer would gather all the info posted and create the essay on the topic.

This is what I suggest, but whatever will be the procedure, let's deal with the Elfstone!

[Anamatar IV]

Which theory of the Elfstone are we going on?;)

[FoolOfATook]

Oh no, I'm not getting into another Elfstone debate with Anamatar IV. ;)

[Anamatar IV]

bah! If Anduril was Elvish I would have won.:D

But possibly we should do both? I'd much rather do the version that the Elfstone is the ORIGINAL one....

[Lhunithiliel]

gate7ole, yes, some clearer organization is needed. I feel it myself and I'd appreciate any ideas! Anyway, the first topic will teach us what to change and in what way, in order to carry on better organized.
I was thinking..... about a period of 3 weeks. I guess it will be enough.... After all, this is a collective work and everyone, who wishes may provide that piece of information s/he has available and is acquainted with.

Master Took, what's this?!??????
Oh no, I'm not getting into another Elfstone debate with Anamatar IV. :eek: :confused:


AND...


Can we START providing information instead of DEBATING how to start?!
:p :p :p :p :p

[FoolOfATook]

Lhun, this thread (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8762) should answer that particular question.

[Lhunithiliel]

Thank you very much for this link!
It really contains most of the information needed.
I felt it right to quote a few things from that other thread, which directly concern the present item under study HERE.:

ROTK: And word went through the City: "The King is come again indeed." And they named him the Elfstone, because of the green stone that he wore, AND SO THE NAME WHICH IT WAS FORETOLD AT HIS BIRTH THAT HE SHOULD BEAR WAS CHOSEN FOR HIM BY HIS OWN PEOPLE."
The Elf stone was elvish glass, or at least could have been derogatorily referred to as such.
The green stone given to Aragorn II by Galadriel in Lórien, and the origin of his surname, Elessar.
[/quote]Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring.[/quote]
Galadriel, giving the green stone to Aragorn, said: "In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!"
The Fellowship of the Ring II 8

The Elessar

In unpublished writing there is little else to be found concerning the history of Celeborn and Galadriel, save for a very rough manuscript of four pages titled "The Elessar." It is in the first stage of composition, but bears a few pencilled emendations; there are no other versions. It reads, with some very slight editorial emendation, as follows:

There was in Gondolin a jewel-smith named Enerdhil, the greatest of that craft among the Noldor after the death of Fëanor. Enerdhil loved all green things that grew, and his greatest joy was to see the sunlight through the leaves of trees. And it came into his heart to make a jewel within which the clear light of the sun should be imprisoned, but the jewel should be green as leaves. And he made this thing, and even the Noldor marvelled at it. For it is said that those who looked through this stone saw things that were withered or burned healed again or as they were in the grace of their youth, and that the hands of one who held it brought to all that they touched healing from hurt. This gem Enerdhil gave to Idril the King's daughter, and she wore it upon her breast; and so it was saved from the burning of Gondolin. And be-fore Idril set sail she said to Eärendil her son: "The Elessar I leave with thee, for there are grievous hurts to Middle-earth which thou maybe shalt heal. But to none other shalt thou deliver it." And indeed at Sirion's Haven there were many hurts to heal both of Men and Elves, and of beasts that fled thither from the horror of the North; and while Eärendil dwelt there they were healed and prospered, and all things were for a while green and fair. But when Eärendil began his great voyages upon the Sea he wore the Elessar upon his breast, for amongst all his searchings the thought was always before him: that he might perhaps find Idril again; and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast, as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower. So it was that the Elessar passed away, when Eärendil returned no more to Middle-earth.
In ages after there was again an Elessar, and of this two things are said, though which is true only those Wise could say who now are gone. For some say that the second was indeed only the first returned, by the grace of the Valar; and that Olórin (who was known in Middle-earth as Mithrandir) brought it with him out of the West. And on a time Olórin came to Galadriel, who dwelt now under the trees of Green-wood the Great; and they had long speech together. For the years of her exile began to lie heavy on the Lady of the Noldor, and she longed for news of her kin and for the blessed land of her birth, and yet was unwilling to forsake Middle-earth [this sentence was changed to read: but was not permitted yet to forsake Middle-earth]. And when Olórin had told her many tidings she sighed, and said: "I grieve in Middle-earth, for leaves fall and flowers fade; and my heart yearns, remembering trees and grass that do not die. I would have these in my home." Then Olórin said: "Would you then have the Elessar?"
And Galadriel said: "Where now is the Stone of Eärendil? And Enerdhil is gone who made it." "Who knows?" said Olórin. "Surely," said Galadriel, "they have passed over Sea as almost all fair things beside. And must Middle-earth then fade and perish for ever?" "That is its fate," said Olórin. "Yet for a little while that might be amended, if the Elessar should return. For a little until the Days of Men are come." "If – and yet how could that be," said Galadriel. "For surely the Valar are now removed and Middle-earth is far from their thought, and all who cling to it are under a shadow."
"It is not so," said Olórin. "Their eyes are not dimmed nor their hearts hardened. In token of which look upon this!" And he held before her the Elessar, and she looked on it and wondered. And Olórin said: "This I bring to you from Yavanna. Use it as you may, and for a while you shall make the land of your dwelling the fairest place in Middle-earth. But it is not for you to possess. You shall hand it on when the time comes. For before you grow weary, and at last forsake Mid-dle-earth one shall come who is to receive it, and his name shall be that of the stone: Elessar he shall be called."

The other tale runs so: that long ago, ere Sauron deluded the smiths of Eregion, Galadriel came there, and she said to Celebrimbor, the chief of the Elven-smiths: "I am grieved in Middle-earth, for leaves fall and flowers fade that I have loved, so that the land of my dwelling is filled with regret that no Spring can redress."
"How otherwise can it be for the Eldar, if they cling to Middle-earth?" said Celebrimbor. "Will you then pass over Sea?"
"Nay," she said. "Angrod is gone, and Aegnor is gone, and Felagund is no more. Of Finarfin's children I am the last. 20 But my heart is still proud. What wrong did the golden house of Finarfin do that I should ask the pardon of the Valar, or be content with an isle in the sea whose native land was Aman the Blessed? Here I am mightier."
"What would you then?" said Celebrimbor.
"I would have trees and grass about me that do not die – here in the land that is mine," she answered. "What has be-come of the skill of the Eldar?" And Celebrimbor said: "Where now is the Stone of Eärendil? And Enerdhil who made it is gone." "They have passed over Sea," said Galadriel, "with almost all fair things else. But must then Middle-earth fade and perish for ever?"
"That is its fate, I deem," said Celebrimbor. "But you know that I love you (though you turned to Celeborn of the Trees), and for that love I will do what I can, if haply by my art your grief can be lessened." But he did not say to Gala-driel that be himself was of Gondolin long ago, and a friend of Enerdhil, though his friend in most things outrivalled him. Yet if Enerdhil had not been then Celebrimbor would have been renowned. Therefore he took thought, and began a long delicate labour, and so for Galadriel he made the great-est of his works (save the Three Rings only). And it is said that more subtle and clear was the green gem that he made than that of Enerdhil, but yet its light had less power. For whereas that of Enerdhil was lit by the Sun in its youth, already many years had passed ere Celebrimbor began his work, and nowhere in Middle-earth was the light as clear as it had been, for though Morgoth had been thrust out into the Void and could not enter again, his far shadow lay upon it. Radiant nonetheless was the Elessar of Celebrimbor; and he set it within a great brooch of silver in the likeness of an eagle rising upon outspread wings." Wielding the Elessar all things grew fair about Galadriel, until the coming of the Shadow to the Forest. But afterwards when Nenya, chief of the Three," was sent to her by Celebrimbor, she needed it (as she thought) no more, and she gave it to Celebrían her daughter, and so it came to Arwen and to Aragorn who was called Elessar.

Unfinisted Tales The Elessar
By Hurin Thalion in the other thread: That piece of jewelry is of pretty much importance, works in a way like an elven Ring, gives bliss, preserves and amends happiness, compare to when it is in the havens of the mouths of Sirion. It was one of the oldest works of hand that was left in Middle-earth in the third age, many had disappeared, so I would say that it was notified by the mouth of Sauron and thus he scorned him for it.

Very useful information!

Any other information? Anyone knowing something else about this jewel?

[Lhunithiliel]

Does anyone know of a stone in the "real" world, that could resemble the green Elfstone?
We all have heard about the "magic" powers of various stones, haven't we. Some are used to protect from bad luck, some for health... Maybe these are "myths"... Yet as we have a saying here: "There is no smoke without fire". There must be some truth deep somewhere...about those "magical" powers of the stones...

[Lhunithiliel]

Gate, you're wonderful!!!!!
THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH!

That was such a useful information!

Anyone else ?
Any opinions, knowledge, quotes... ?

[gate7ole]

I guess that there is no more info about The Star of Elendil (at least I didn't find anymore).

So, let me tell propose another theme.
What is known about Telchar and his works?

[Lhunithiliel]

Reading another thread, I came across Grond's post that would be of help here.
I quote:
from The Two Towers, The King of the Golden Hall:
Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'
Grond:Telchar is mentioned twice in the Silmarillion ...first as being the greatest Dwarven-craftsman of Nogrod and then as being the forger of Angrist, Curufin's blade that was taken from him by Beren and later used to cut one of the Silmaril's from the Dark Lord Morgoth's crown.

Telchar is mentioned again twice in Unfinished Tales; first, as the maker of the Helm of Hador (which was originally made for Azaghal, Lord of Belegost) and then in reference to Thingol's armouries, insinuating that they may have been made by Telchar or Feanor or both.

[Ecthelion]

I found the following from a website called 'The Encyclopedia of Arda'. If you want to check it out go here (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm) . Anyway this is what I found about Telchar and his works:

A Dwarf of Nogrod in the Blue Mountains, and one of the greatest smiths in the history of Middle-earth. Among his works were Angrist (the knife that freed the Silmaril from the Iron Crown), Narsil (the sword of Elendil, later reforged for Aragorn as Andúril) and the Dragon-helm of Dor-lómin.

[Ecthelion]

I definately believe that Gate, I don't know many others who were THAT good with craftsmanship. So what is the next thing we will be researching about?

[Lhunithiliel]

Oh! I am late! I already have THREE summaries to draw up and prepare them as entries into the Wiki Knowledge-base (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?FrontPage) !

But as for the next item to study:
How about "Buildings of the Numenoreans"
I know it is a large topic, but I have always been amazed by the Argonath, the white tower in Minas Tirth, the city of MT itself, Osgilliath.. etc...

I wonder if it would be appropriate to start with the Numenorean building in Numenor before it was destroyed and then procede with the works in ME?
Opinions?

[Ecthelion]

I've already started research so I think we should just search for anything we can find.

I found some odd things about the Argonath:

1 The details of the Argonath's origins given in this entry are taken from Appendix A (iv) to The Lord of the Rings, which states of Rómendacil II: 'He it was that built the pillars of the Argonath at the entrance to Nen Hithoel.' Rómendacil was King of Gondor between the years III 1304 and III 1366, but before taking the throne he had served as Regent since III 1240, and the context of this quote strongly suggests that Pillars were raised during his Regency period, in about the year III 1250.

Basically the source I got this info from says that the Argonath was built by Rómendacil II who is not Númenorean so the Argonath is not a part of the Númenorean Buildings. I go now to reasearch other buildings you posted.

[Lhunithiliel]

Thank you for your participation!
I see this can be quite a large subject of study, so I suggest:
Why don't we make a list of those exciting and/or important buildings of the Numenoreans and then focus on each separately?

1/The Temple on Meneltarma (the isle of Numenorean kingdom)
2/The ships of Aldarion Eämbar and Palarran and the ship-building of the Numenoreans in general (although these are not exactly "thing" but a whole activity)
3/ Armenelos itself

Later in ME:

1/ the Argonath
2/ the towers for the Palantiri: HELP me enlist them!
3/ Osgilliath
4/ Minas Tirith
5/ The White tower of Ecthelion in MT

What else?
Let's complete the list and then look for, find and provide some information (as much as can be found).

[Ecthelion]

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
2/ the towers for the Palantiri: HELP me enlist them!


Does Amon Sûl count as one of those?

[Lhunithiliel]

Absolutely!

Do you, guys and gals, think that the list ic all right?

[Ecthelion]

I like the list right now. SHould we assign people to research certain things or everyone help out in everything?

[Lhunithiliel]

This is a splendid idea, Great Captain of the proud Gondolidrims! :D
Whom do you suggest?

For example: me - the isle of Numenor = p.p. 1-3.

[Anamatar IV]

Anyone mind if I take the white tower of ecthelion and Orthanc since they are made of the same unbreakable stone supposedly.

[Lhunithiliel]

Well, since you asked FIRST - they are YOURS! :D

[Ecthelion]

I'll research the Argonath (already did some on that) and Amon Sûl.

[Eöl]

Hey everyone, I will do the towers of the Palantiri, other than Amon Sul of course. I will try to post my results by Saturday or Sunday at the latest.

[Lhunithiliel]

Guys, I first of all would like to apologize for my absence but I was dead-ill for five days :(

But what I really would like to say is that I thank you ALL for the co-operation and the interest shown! Go on! I'll do my research work as soon as possible (this illness kept me away from a lot of things I usually attend and take care of and now I have to quickly cope with everything).

One more thing:
I hope you will not have anything against entering your research work in the Wiki - knowledgebase. Your TTF-names will be shown there.

Good to be back :D

[Lhunithiliel]

To all who are participating here:

I have entered all your contributions so far into the Wiki knowledgebase. There I represented all of us as the StudyTeam! and created a special page to represent us.
See for yourself and visit the Wiki, look for the Index and you will find your work immortalized there! :D

Our Team's page is here (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?StudyTeam)

[Lhunithiliel]

A few things about the Study:

1/ As you all know I enter your research works in the Wiki Tolkien knowledgebase. There, as I also informed you, we all are under the name of the "StudyTeam".

Yey!!!! :D !
For the page of the team, however, I would like to ask you:

..... Would you like to PM me your real names, so that I can enter them in the list of the glorious team?!

Why?
Because for example when I write the name of Finduilas, a link is automatically provided to the name - but this is the name of the character and not our dear colleague Findi :D!

Of course, if you don't wish to do it, it's OK!

2/ Eol, have a look
here (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Of__the__Palant%edri) and here (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?The__Palant%edri) on the matter of the Palantiri. Me and Walter did these surveys some time ago.
So, would you "twist" around your research in such a way that it would focus on the towers themselves. Why not prepare it as a summary on: their exact location, which tower which exact stone held, when was it built.....

3/ I HOPE YOU GUYS WILL NOT ABANDON THIS ACTIVITY!

Why? Common!

>> it's fun
>> it makes us study
>> it makes you famous! ;) :D

[Eöl]

Hmm, is there some more topics you would like us to research, Lhun? Also, I hope my revisions were as you wanted!

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Eöl
Hmm, is there some more topics you would like us to research, Lhun? Also, I hope my revisions were as you wanted!
As I said in my previous post, I THANK ALL who are participating in the "Study"!

Eöl, what do you say of note #2 of my previous post?

As for new topic, I am afraid, we haven't covered the previous one - "Buildings of the Numenoreans (and later - those of Gondor)".
But we may think of new ones!
Suggestions?

[Eöl]

Eöl, what do you say of note #2 of my previous post?

Does this mean that it still wasn't quite what you were looking for, because if it isn't I am not sure how much more there is on the towers that the palantiri were kept in. I may have missed things in HoME but I am pretty sure I got most of everything in The Silmarillion, LotR and UT. References to the towers mainly consist of things like this "And the Numenoreans built there the great tower of Amon Sul." or something along those lines.

[Lhunithiliel]

Excellent work boys!

Beleg, thank you for helping me out with some of the items on the topic!

Boys.....and girls, will you please PM me with your names in order to put them in the Wiki instead of the forum names?
As I have explained, your forum names coincide with some characters from the writings and thus your forum name gives a link to a Tolkien books character - not to you as members of the Study team!
Ecthelion has done it already. Will you too?

[Lhunithiliel]

I have entered into Wiki almost everything that we have provided so far.
The information is organized in diferent pages, so if you visit Wiki, go to "Recent Changes" and you will see them and from there you can enter and read them and see how your work has become world-wide available!

Congratulations! :D

*****

Now... What shall we procede with?

Any ideas?

You know, I'm tempted by SWORDS.
What d'you say? Shall we make a list of the most famous swords in T's writings and perform a good research on them?

Of course, if some of us find information on any other items, related to the previous topic - POST!

And of course, if you have other ideas or if you have just come accross something interesting and want to share - you're welcome to post here :D

[Eöl]

Just a suggestion...how about weapons, instead of swords? Off the top of my head (not very reliable:D) I can't think of too many swords with actual histories other than Narsil. Any other ideas?

[Lhunithiliel]

Yea, perhaps you're right....:rolleyes:

Yet, we still could do some research in this , I think.

Let's see: the Black sword of Turin, the sword of Turgon, Narsil (of course!), the sword of Gandalf, the Sting, the sword of Eomer...which one else?
Can you help me complete the list?

[Beleg]

I am doing research on some of the swords and have for this mater researched an unfinished list of swords. But i wont be able to come online a lot this week so i'll post it till atleast saturday.

[Eöl]

Let's see: the Black sword of Turin, the sword of Turgon, Narsil (of course!), the sword of Gandalf, the Sting, the sword of Eomer...which one else? See how reliable my memory is!:p I can't really think of any right now, but maybe swords would be fine after all.

[Lhunithiliel]

See? :D
Shall we start?

AND WHERE HAVE THE OTHERS GONE?!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Ecthelion]

I'm here. What about Ringil and Orcrist?

[Anamatar IV]

Lhun, Gandalf's sword, Glamdring, was Turgon's sword. I'd be happy to take Glamdring and Angrist if I could.:)

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
Lhun, Gandalf's sword, Glamdring, was Turgon's sword. I'd be happy to take Glamdring and Angrist if I could.:)
I know, I know ... my mistake :eek: !

So, I would very much ask you, boys, to make a well organized list of the possible swords to be researched and post it, so that every one of us could pick up one or more and start work...

Agree?

WHO will volunteer to draw up the list?

[Eöl]

Thank you Beleg! I will do the history of Narsil, that includes date forged, by who important battles and basically the history of who has carried it right?

[Lhunithiliel]

Yes, thank you Beleg!
yet two things:

1/ What are the "*" - for?

2/ Could you regularly fill in the names of the people who will do the research of each item?
For example: Narsil - Eol.
Thus we'll not double our research efforts.

I'll pick up an item today.

[Lhunithiliel]

I will start with Gurthang.

[Arvedui]

Do you have room for one more, who isn't even a Tolkienologist? If so, I could do some research on Anglachel.
But perhaps that would coincide with Lhun, as it was reforged to Gurthang?

[Lhunithiliel]

You are ALWAYS welcome, Arvedui! :)
As for the swords, well, you can do the "first" part of it's history and I'll research it's "second life"... Why not?!

I also think it would be very interesting if we could include in our research (about all the swords) any and all information about swords in general in the real world history.

[Arvedui]

Okay, I'll see what I can dig up during the weekend.:)

[Lhunithiliel]

Eol, your Narsil has been immortalized in the Wiki - knowledgebase! :D
Thanks for the wonderful work!

[Lhunithiliel]

WOW!

Where do you take all this from, Beleg!? ;) :D

Great work!
I myself am trying to go a bit deeper and am trying to find some "external" information about swords generally speaking.
Here is one interesting web-sites where one can get a lot of valuable information on swords - some historical bits of information, types of swords, making a sword - information... it's really worth visiting. And the information is so submitted that it's easy to understand and not boring to read. :D

SWORDS (http://www.selinafenech.com/swords/index.html)

[Lhunithiliel]

Arvedui, Beleg, thank you again for your wonderful contributions! :)

I have entered your research in the Wiki:

Here are the links:

Anglachel (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Anglachel)

Gurthang (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Gurthang)

I kope you like it!
I'm going to add some more about Gurthang.
And I plan to arrange a page called "Swords in Middle-earth".
It will contain all the summarized information plus perhaps some additional facts about sword forging and some historical facts...
I'll see what I will include.

Meanwhile, are there perhaps some other swords uncovered by our research?:rolleyes: Has the above list been covered?

[Beleg]

I must say Lhun you have done a great job in maintaining the above given pages. We just gave the information, you did all the hard work including formatting, arranging and placing suitble points etc...:)

[Beleg]

I dont think any sword is left, well from those mentioned in the list except Glamdring, Gandalf's sword. i think i'll post that later in the night.

[Lhunithiliel]

Study Team,

I would very much appreciate if you come up with fresh ideas on items, characters, places or whatever that we could research :) :cool:

Let's hunt some .... Tolkien! ;) :p

[Eöl]

This is a topic proposed in the Debate and Discussion list, but I'm going to alter it from "The Beginnings Of Hobbits" to "A Comprehensive History Of The Hobbits." Too challenging perhaps? Thoughts please!:)

[Lhunithiliel]

Nice topic, I admit.
But it is worth a more deep and multi-participants' activity.
Which leads me to an offer:

This subject could be eitehr:
1/ discussed openly in a separate thread;
or
2/ included in the coming "Hobbit"-studyng project.

I have offered Samjor to lead and manage this project and I have told him about your interest towards hobbits, so you two can get in touch and figure it all out!

In either case, this topic is too large and worth discussing and researching.

:D

[Eöl]

Ok, time to get this show on the road! I just PMed Samjor, and hopefully we can start soon.

[Beleg]

Is this meant to be a study team Project then? Or is it a part of the Newb activity? And where are you Lhun?!!! :(

[Eöl]

Maybe we could start it seperately when the newbie activity has progressed a little bit. That way, those who finish the newbie thing can then participate in the Study project.

[Eöl]

Sorry to double post....:o

I just got a response back from samjor, and he asked me to take over the project.:rolleyes: *is nervous* So We first should probably divide up the 'sections' of Hobbit history...A few that I can think of off the top of my head are:
The Beginnings Of Hobbits
Hobbits In The War Of The Ring
Hobbit Genealogies

I know there are more things about Hobbits than that, so please post any that you think of. And, samjor, if you are reading this thread, I hope you're not too busy to participate!

[FoolOfATook]

I'm a tad confused- is this project about Hobbits, or about The Hobbit? I had thought that it was about Tolkien's first novel, but after reading Eol's post, I'm begining to think that I was mistaken....

[Eöl]

Well, one of the ideas going around right now, started by samjor, is to have a study/discussion of The Hobbit. It would involve tutoring on MSN Messenger, and some homework assignments as well. Just sort of a way to help newbies get into Tolkien's works a bit more. What I am suggesting is a project for either the Study Team, or the guild in general. Also, I suggested that we start this Study Team project a while after the "newbie" project has started. That way, the newbies can participate in the Study Team project after they are done learning about the book. Make any more sense now?:p

[Beleg]

Now, i am really coufused. What i understood was that the Project of Samjor was not connected with the reasearch of the Study Team. We were supposed to write/search a paper on the Origin of Hobbits not The Hobbit itself. Can someone explain to me what the Study Team is to do?

[Eöl]

The Study Team will compile a complete history of the Hobbits. However, we may be aided by the newbies, after they have finished their study of the actual book. So basically there are two things:

1. The Study Team Project - A complete history of the Hobbits, possibly assisted by newbies who are involved with...

2. The "Newbie" Project - A study of The Hobbit, with online tutoring and homework assignments.

[FoolOfATook]

So, is samjor heading up the "Newbie" project by himself, or is an "experienced" member working on it as well? I know that I'm revealing my ignorance here, but I'm actually becoming quite interested in this project- especially since The Hobbit is the book that has caused nearly everyone, regardless of their Tolkien experience, the most trouble on the ranking tests. I'd be willing to lend a hand if I could help. :D

[Eöl]

I think samjor is actually one of the students...:D Lhun is pretty much the "leader", there are some tutors already chosen...I'm one of them...I don't know the others. Sorry I can't really help more!

[Lhunithiliel]

Guys, guys...
This is starting to look like "Text A ...and B and...C.." of Tolkien writings...! :D

Now, yes, there are two SEPARATE activities:
1/ Hobbit-book newby studying
Samjor's idea>>> I took up the organization>>>"hires" several tutors>>> I offered the management of the project to samjor>>> he accepted>>> samor is now the Manager of this project

2/ Hobbits - research
Activity of the and for the Study team initiated by Eol and run by him. (I simply offered a research I did some time ago and added it to Walter's at the Wiki-knowledgebase)

Did this help to clear any misunderstandings?
So we have TWO projects related with the little hairy-feet fellows and TWO leaders respectively - Samjor and Eol.

:D

[Eöl]

Is there anyway we could get more interest in the "newbie" project? An announcement of some sort?

[Lhunithiliel]

So, Study Team, what is it going to be?

Hobbits?
I wonder if you have read the page at Wiki for which I provided a link a few posts earlier here. If the ST should go on the reasearch on the Hobbits (characters, NOT the book) , then I think data should be provided in addition to what has been already given in that page. Why double any information?!

Then, I think we should also think of some new subject of research to undertake.

[Beleg]

I have read the page at TolkienWiki. What we need to do is to assign different members of Study Team different topics concerning the History of Hobbits. I for once would like to research the begining of the hobbits, their entry into Eriador, their connection with Man etc, someone can research their races, their enytmologies, their names, their customs etc, someone can resreach their character, it'd take some time so we'll have to be a bit patient.

[Lhunithiliel]

Can I take the races of the Hobbits?

Is that all right, Eol? YOU are the manager of this project! :D

[Eöl]

Races is fine, you can have that Lhun! I will take genealogies, and Beleg, you can have the beginnings of Hobbits. Let's get started!

Thus far we have:
Beleg - The beginnings of Hobbits
Lhunithiliel - The races of Hobbits
Finduilas - The role of Hobbits in the War Of The Ring
Eöl - Genealogies of important Hobbit families

[Finduilas]

Can I participate too?
If it isn't too late to take a part I'd like to get the one about Hobbits in the War of the Ring.

Eol, what do you say?

[Eöl]

Yeah, I'm still waiting for more topics about Hobbits though, so please if you have any, post them! Finduilas, go ahead and run with it!

[Arvedui]

I have had some thoughts about why the Hobbits emerged at the time they did, and started a thread about it in the OiE. It can be seen here. (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6736)
Maybe this could be of some interest in the new project?

[Lhunithiliel]

Thank you, Arvedui! :D
I was fearing that I have lost you from the StudyTeam! :eek:

*****

People, when are you ready with your Hobbits - research?
Eol, my friend, you being the Manager of this projectm, why not fix a date for the first entry? ....And you know, I'm thinking that it would be right if you suggest some order of thepost... i.e.: 1/Origin;2/Races;3/Names ...etc..

Well?

[Arvedui]

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
Thank you, Arvedui! :D
I was fearing that I have lost you from the StudyTeam! :eek:


You are welcome:D
And no, you have not lost me. I just thought the idea of mine was a little too far-fetched to be taken into consideration in the main text. Something for a 'comment section' underneath the main text perhaps.

[Eöl]

ack! I completely biffed my role as manager of this project, I apologize everyone!:( I am going to change my topic, because there is not much of a point in the one I picked.:D I will now be doing a brief overview of Hobbit, i.e. how they look, what they wear, etc. The order is:

1. Eöl - Overview of Hobbits
2. Beleg_strongbow - Beginnings of Hobbits
3. Lhunithiliel - Races of Hobbits
4. Finduilas - Hobbits in the War of the Ring

That is all for now, however, Arvedui, you are welcome to find and prepare a topic! And I will go through that thread on Tuesday, because I will be getting cable modem then. No more taking up the phone line!:) I may use some posts as 'Comments', like you suggested.

[Lhunithiliel]

Da*** debates! ;) :D
They have kept me so busy that I have missed a few things here in one of my most favourite threads!!!!

Sorry for not replying earlier Findy!:o

Now......I find your idea very interesting!!!

But do you think we could trace those sources? Where to look for information on them?

Hey, Study Team. wake up!!! :p :D
Let's discuss Findi's suggestion and if we can, let's make it work!

[Beleg]

Originally Posted by Finduilas,

-Plants and flowers:
...........Ents
-Animals:
...........Balrogs

Ouch! Ents=Plants??? :eek:

And Balrogs were Maiar, subordinate spirits to Valar; they were not animals.

[Lhunithiliel]

Ah, beleg! :D
Always nitpicking at our poor Findy! LOL

Anyway...I know it is not important to devide these creatures in cathegories, but to be willing to do some research on Tolkien's inspiration on creating them in his writings. Right?

I am however at a loss! :confused: What information sources are to be looked through in order to find any such information?

Any suggestions? Hints? :)

[Finduilas]

Well,I was thinking about the Letters...I haven't still read them but I recently got them and I will be able to search there.
However,the Biography is appropriate too I suppose.

[Lhunithiliel]

Time for the Study Team to wake up and get working! :p

I suggest a topic for the next few weeks :

Bans, Oaths and Curses in Tolkien's worlds.


I suggest we organize them in three groups and first of all make a list of those "items" to be researched. Then we can each take one (or two) and start posting what we have found. I for one think that I am also going to put in some of my own opinions and thoughts apart from the pure facts.


Well?


What say you?

[Finduilas]

I say, it is a good topic.
So we should make a list of the bans, oaths and curses in Tolkien's works. Well, they are quite a lot, and let me search for a little and then I will post most of them.

But what about bans, what do you mean-the bans that the Valar establish, or is it also about bans that Elvish and Men-kind Kings make too?

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Finduilas
But what about bans, what do you mean-the bans that the Valar establish, or is it also about bans that Elvish and Men-kind Kings make too?
I guess so... Besides how many are the cases of Men's bans? :rolleyes: So...Valar's bans, Elvish bans and those of Men.

We can make a list of them (I will update it till its final version):

Bans

1. Eru - the Ban for the Valar and Maiar to not leave Arda
2. Manwe - banning Melko into the Void
3. The Ban of the Noldor of M-E in the F.A to go to Aman.
4. The Ban on Men to go to Aman
5. The Ban of Quenya in Doriath
6. The Ban of Earendil to come back to the world of mortals
7. The Ban of Luthien to return to the world of immortals



Curses

1. The Curse of Mandos upon the Noldor
2. The Curse of Melkor upon Hurin's family
3. The curse of Isildur upon the Dead Men of Dunharrow.
4. The Curse of Mim upon the Nauglumir
5. Curse of Mîm laid upon Andróg and v.v.
6. The curse upon the Witch King (who by :eek: ???)
7. The curse upon Isildur and his heirs
8. The curse upon Juan



Oaths

1. The oath of Feanor
2. The oath of Turin
3. The oath of Gil-Galad and Elendil.
4. The oath of Cirion and Eorl.
5. The oath of Aragorn and Eomer.
6. The oath of Aragorn and Arwen

[Inderjit S]

The curse of Isildur on the Dead Men of Dunharrow.
The Curse of Mim on the Nauglumir.

The oath of Gil-Galad and Elendil.
The oath of Cirion and Eorl.
The oath of Aragorn and Eomer.

The Ban of the Noldor of M-E in the F.A to go to Aman.
The Ban on Men to go to Aman.

[Manveru]

Also... as far as Mîm is concerned:

The Curse of Mîm laid on Andróg.

Can we also consider Beleg's words:
"The vengeance of the house of Hador will find you yet!"
which he cried after the Petty Dwarf, as a curse, too? (just wondering;))

[Lhunithiliel]

THANK YOU !!! :D

Manveru... What do I know! :confused: :eek: I wonder myself!
But ...to think of it, perhaps we should stick to the greater and more important of these ..... "events"... :rolleyes:

OMG!!!!
Quite a number we shall eventually have! It's going to be quite a work!:cool:

[Inderjit S]

And what of Androg's curse on Mim?

Or the banning of Quenya in doriath?

[Gil-Galad]

I think that we should divide Hurin's and his son's fate.Because the curse is different for Hurin and Turin.I mean Hurin sees everything and suffer,because he knows about the curse,while Turin doesn't know about it and live abd suffer.
(wow I hate this word "suffer"):mad:

[Lhunithiliel]

G-G, this is why I put it as " Curse of Morgoth upon hurin's family", having in mind that the person who will take this topic will probably trace the tragic fates of all the members of this poor family.

I have added the Ban of Quenya in Doriath... But I have (I admit it honestly! :o ) all about that Androg's curse on Mim << >> Mim's curse on Androg - thing and either I shall have to read it through again in order to remember or you, guys (Manveru and Indi) shall be that kind as to remind me what it was all about and whetehr it was Mim cursing Androg or Androg - Mim. :confused: :eek: :o

[Manveru]

About that Mim cursing Androg 'thing';)
From Unfinished Tales (which I'm still struggling to finish;)):
NARN I HÎN HÚRIN - The Tale of the Children of Húrin

"You speak like a Dwarf-lord of old; and at that I marvel. Now my heart is cooled, though it is not glad. My own ransom I will pay, therefore: you may dwell here, if you will. But this I will add: he that loosed the shaft shall break his bow and his arrows and lay them at my son's feet; and he shall never take arrow nor bear bow again. If he does, he shall die by it. That curse I lay on him."

[Inderjit S]

Andróg was afraid when he heard of this curse; and though he did so with great grudge, he broke his bow and his arrows and laid them at the dead Dwarf's feet. But as he came out from the chamber, he glanced evilly at Mîm, and muttered: "The curse of a Dwarf never dies, they say; but a Man's too may I come home. May he die with a dart in his throat!

[Lhunithiliel]

Aha! Thanks!!! :D
But still...you know... I'd like us to stick to the more....."famous" and "greater" curses, bans and oaths. .... Because thinking of the story... Well, we can surely find quite a lot of minor ones...It's such a world!

So... Would it be wrong to omit this Androg<< >>Mim - curses ? :rolleyes:
If you say it should be there - All right (a wraith's grin :p )!

[Gil-Galad]

Well,it is hard to say whether to include it or not.This Androg-Mim curses is not so famous,but still it is part of Middle-earth's history and the question is about all bans,curses and oaths.
That's why I suggest to include it.:)

[Manveru]

Yeah, there are so few of them;).

[Lhunithiliel]

A new suggestion ...
Let us see if someone will be interested :cool:

"The Great Halls"

To be included research about the great palaces and halls of :
>> the Valar
>>the Elves
>> the Dwarves
>> Men

Any volunteers? :)

BTW, I see a need to update the list of the Study Team! ;)

1/ Lhun
2? Gil-Galad
3/ ?
4/
5/
.

[Gil-Galad]

Put me there!!!!
I will like to write about the Halls of the Valar in Aman!!!!!

(I have my BOLT and I will make use of it!! *laughing evily* )

[Lhunithiliel]

OK! :D

GG - the halls of the Valar! :D

[Lhunithiliel]

I need here a few more volunteers, GoT- members or not, who would wish to actively participate in the activities of the Study.
The last topic offered is to research and prepare brief but full descriptions of the most famous dwellings in Tolkien's Legendarium.
G-G has taken the task to write about the halls of the Valar. G-G, BoLT1 has a lot of info about that. :)

Well, we're left with the Great Halls of the Elves, of Men and of Dwarves.

Should we, i wonder, include the Great "Halls" of the Hobbits?
It would be fair, don't you think?

so:

The Great halls of :

1/ the Valar - Gil-Galad
2/ the Elves - Arvedui
3/ Men - Helcaraxe
4/ Dwarves - ???
5/ Hobbits - ???

The dwellings/halls/castles/ fortresses etc if too many (as in some cases), may be distributed between more members.

If ONLY you wished to join me!!!!

[Helcaraxë]

I'll do men.

~Helcaraxë

[Lhunithiliel]

Good! :)

Now... I would like to ask you and G-G - as both of you have chosen a topic - to make up a list of the particular halls you are going to research on and post it in this thread ASAP.

Well.... Who else? We still have the Halls of the Elves and those of the Dwarves and the Hobbits available! :)

[Gil-Galad]

I will use everything from BoLT,including the Halls of :Makar and Measse,who are not part of The Sil.

[Arvedui]

As none have ventured forth to do the Elves, then I'll be stupid and sign up there, although it will take a lot of time that I don't really have, but so what...

Let's see:
- Nargothrond
- Menegroth
- Gondolin
- Rivendell
- Ost-in-Edhil (don't know if much can be found about it, though...)
- Tol Eressëa

I guess I could go on and on...
Maybe I'll take Hobbits instead.:D

[Lhunithiliel]

Now this is good news, King! :D
.. Or shall i say... KingS!!! ;)

So, you take the Elves' Great Halls!
We are left with those of the Dwarves and those of the Hobbits. Hmmm.. I think I shall have to find a "Dwarf" and a "Hobbit" on this forum to ask them tell us about the great architectural achievements of their races!

[Gil-Galad]

WOW,master Arvedui will take the Halls of Elves!!!I am impressed!!! :)

[Arvedui]

Lhun, do you think it would be possible to get Anc along to take care of the Dwarves?

You're impressed Gil-Galad? Always trust a drowned King to voluntaire for something he don't comprehend...

[Gil-Galad]

And Anc here?What a compnay !!! :eek: :)

[Helcaraxë]

Well, I'd like to do Fornost and Meduseld. I've already taken some notes on Fornost, and I'll probably get to Meduseld by tomorrow, as there isn't that much information on it. I'll do Minas Tirith later unless someone wants to help me with it. I could also do Minas Ithil, but that's not vital.

~Helcaraxë

[Lhunithiliel]

Lhun, do you think it would be possible to get Anc along to take care of the Dwarves?

You're impressed Gil-Galad? Always trust a drowned King to voluntaire for something he don't comprehend...
Absolutely yes, Arvedui! :) Bring him along!!!

* * *

Now, I would also like to remind sth. which is in the very foundation of the existance of the "Study - Team" and I would need everyone's approval and confirmation.

The idea of the "Study" in GoT is to have the opportunity to do research on various Tolkien-related topics and write about the results of this research so that the rest of the GoT members, all TTF-ers and whoever comes to these Halls can have the info - digest available for whatever he/she might need it.

The "Study" is a place in GoT, but the idea is to have a constant Study-Team
the members of which can always be changed and hopefully increased. When the first formed Team started working, I asked the host of the TolkienWiki All-Tolkien-knowledge-bank whether the research of the Team can be published there and he agreed ;) :) From then on, there is a special group in that project, which is our Study Team. The Team has its own member page and all the works of its members have been entered there and are signed "Study Team" as well as with the name of the particular person who wrote the info. Thus, I've ensured a wonderful IMO opportunity for the members of the Study Team to go broad international. The TolkienWiki project is visited by hundreds of users daily!!!

Now, if you, Helcaraxe, G-G and Arvedui are serious about it all, let me enter your names in the list of the Study Team, both - here and there. And let's go on "digging" into the books and continue the nice tradition. :cool: I would be glad to have Anc on-board too, just as anyone else who would be interested in such an activity!! :D

So... I'll be waiting for your confirmation. Oh! And don't be worried! The membership in the Study Team only gives you great opportunities and even though it is taking certain responsibilities, it does not require you non-stop work. .... I can give you some breaks from time to time! :p :D But... seriously speaking, it's fun to know that the result fo your won research is read and taken into consideration by hundreds of people all over the world! But the ST can participate whenever they wish and have time.

Wraithfully yours :p

[Lhunithiliel]

Well, I'd like to do Fornost and Meduseld. I've already taken some notes on Fornost, and I'll probably get to Meduseld by tomorrow, as there isn't that much information on it. I'll do Minas Tirith later unless someone wants to help me with it. I could also do Minas Ithil, but that's not vital.

~Helcaraxë
Good! :)
Now... why don't you "recruit" a colleague? Ask someone who you know would be interested to work with you and do it together! :)
BTW, could you, please, make out a list of the Halls you're going to do... as Arvedui did it.
****

G-G could you please do your list as well?

THANK YOU, guys! :D

[Gil-Galad]

I will use BoLT to describe the Halls of :
Makar and Measse
Mandos
Orome
Tulkas
Osse
Manwe

well I will have to revise the BoLT and search for something more,but I think that Ulmo will be included too with some words about him as well as Lorien.

[Arvedui]

Absolutely yes, Arvedui! :) Bring him along!!!Erh.. a slight misunderstanding on my part. My meaning was that the leadership of Tolkienologists should ask him, but OK, I'll PM him 'till he surrenders:D

Having done some minor research, I am lead to the conlution that Ost-in-Edhil will probably end up not being presented. There is simply too little mention of it (The city that is, not the Guild!).

Do we just post the results in this thread?

[Lhunithiliel]

El, eeerrr... about the stone .. what is your post aimed to ?... I mean.. which topic? :confused:

Arvedui, about Ost-in-Edhil ... why... even if it talkes a couple of lines, it should be mentioned.
As for Tol Eressea - which exactly halls do you intend to include there? :rolleyes:
And yes - the research is posted HERE in the present thread. Just put a nice title of the post and place it under this title. :)

As for Anc, PM him please and tell him we'd be glad to see him around if he'd be interested to do the Halls of the Dwarves or/and become a member of the Study Team. :)

And

I am waiting for confirmations from G-G, Helcaraxe and Arvedui whether they consent to be included into the Study Team as its members.

[Arvedui]

Tol Eressëa was put down in a general meaning. I will have to see if there are any particular place that serves to be mentioned.


O-i-E: I have searched through the Atlas of Middle-earth, and it was mentioned in only one sentence, which is not a lot.

I have PM'ed Anc, but have not received any reply yet. But I know that he suffers somewhat from time-constrains. So my advice for now is to keep looking for alternatives.
As for being a permanent part of the Study-team: I can't promise that I will be able to participate in every given topic, but if you want to add my name to the list, feel free to do so. It ios not as if my name isn't already to be found on the Wiki...:)

[Gil-Galad]

For sure I will take part in this round of the Study :),and in hte future I will try to participate as much as possible :)

[Eledhwen]

El, eeerrr... about the stone .. what is your post aimed to ?... I mean.. which topic? :confused:
Either I've posted this in the wrong place or TTF has tagged it to the wrong thread (probably the former). I'll delete it. :rolleyes:

[Lhunithiliel]

El, NP! It happens sometimes! ;) .. But we'd love to have you here in these Halls of research and study!

Arvedui.... NICE! and QUCK! ;) :)
THANK YOU!

I have a question related to the two Great Halls of the Elves that Arvedui posted the info about.

The Elves were not children of darkness. They enjoyed the night and the stars, yes... yet they used to live in the open and enjoyed it.
WHY do you think two of the Greatest Elven Halls were in caves?
Peculiar! :rolleyes: .. Well ... I understand.. Morgoth and all.. yet what more?

Opinions?

[Aulë]

I have PM'ed Anc, but have not received any reply yet. But I know that he suffers somewhat from time-constrains. So my advice for now is to keep looking for alternatives.
If Anc does not have the time, I would gladly do the Dwarves. That is, if I'm allowed. I'm always keen for any Dwarf-related activities. ;)
There aren't too many halls (although they are the best in Middle Earth :)), and very few details are given about them (apart from Khazad-dum). But I would try my best.

As far as I know, these are the only Dwarvish halls mentioned:
-Khazad-dûm
-Gabilgathol
-Tumunzahar
-Erebor

I don't know whether you'd want to include Amon Rûdh though, since it was only a small dwelling of Petty-Dwarves.

[Lhunithiliel]

Of you are, Father of all Dwarves!!! ;)
Who else could know more about his children than you!

Yes, it's OK. Please, do the topic ...

And if someone knows a learned Hobbit, ask him/her whether he/she would like to tell us about the Great Halls of the Hobbits! ;) :) :) :)

EXCELLENT WORK, GENTLEMEN !!!!!!!!!

**

P.S. Arvedui, perhaps you haven't noticed, but I posted a question related to the info about the two great fortresses - Nargothrond and Menegroth. Would you wish to comment on it?
In fact anyone may comment on it. :cool:

[Aulë]

I have a question related to the two Great Halls of the Elves that Arvedui posted the info about.

The Elves were not children of darkness. They enjoyed the night and the stars, yes... yet they used to live in the open and enjoyed it.
WHY do you think two of the Greatest Elven Halls were in caves?
Peculiar! :rolleyes: .. Well ... I understand.. Morgoth and all.. yet what more?

Opinions?

One word: security.

Would you want to be living out in the open if the armies of Morgoth were traipsing around the neighbourhood? ;) Melian herself suggested to Thingol that he hire the services of the Naugrim to fashion a dwelling in the same manner as their own, as to weather the storm when the Peace of Arda ended.
Also, by being in a cave, Nargothrond was also hidden from Morgoth's eyes, and therefore kept out of his equation.

[Lhunithiliel]

Interesting.... :rolleyes:
I haven't paid attention to the existance of those two Dwarven fortresses. Thanks, Aule!

Do you happen to know any info about how they looked like? And... could you also provide some more info on Eol's visiting Tumunzahar? Perhaps there is some additional info in this episode.

Now... as for the Elven cave-halls. As I had said, I acknowledge the peril from Morgoth's armies. True. .... Thinking of it... Those places must have been quite unpleasant to live in! Vast and exqusitly adorned - yes... but no light comes into caves!... And when I "draw" the picture of them in my mind, I get a bit confused as far as the Elves are concerned. I have this "image" of them as a people that loves living in the open air... but there is that trend to bury deep below the ground, to build palaces in caves.... Poor Noldor! Had they come to ME for that???!!! :(

One last thing:
I think it would be wonderful to provide some quotes from the books you are using for your research. And in case you have them, why not providing some pictures as well!

I am waiting for some more info to read! :)

And one very last thing ;) - How about rating this thread? ;) :D

[Finduilas]

If Aulë allows I may post a description of Khazad-dum from Michael Martinez's Parma Endorion. I know it's the author's work and it's not a Tolkien source but if you are interested I may post it.

[Helcaraxë]

Hmm..

Oddly enough, I can't find much information on Meduseld, and not nearly as much as I thought for Minas Tirith.

[Aulë]

If Aulë allows I may post a description of Khazad-dum from Michael Martinez's Parma Endorion. I know it's the author's work and it's not a Tolkien source but if you are interested I may post it.

Sure, you can do that if you'd like.
I'll do Erebor, and hunt down some more info on Belegost and Nogrod.

[Lhunithiliel]

Well, my Fair Lady Finduilas, I think that any info we can get is only well-met! :)
I personally would be happy to have M.M.'s description here. Aule can post Tolkien's "version" ;) :)

Helcaraxe, I remember that MT was mostly described in... bits and pieces here and there... while someone if walking the city's streets, while looking at or from the city, in memories.... etc. So, I think that what you'll probably have to do is to gather info from these pieces and make up a whole picture.
As for Meduseld... Hmmmm.. maybe more in the peripheral sources? I can't remember well now. But if I do, I'll let you know. OK? :)

[Arvedui]

P.S. Arvedui, perhaps you haven't noticed, but I posted a question related to the info about the two great fortresses - Nargothrond and Menegroth. Would you wish to comment on it? Not really.;)
In fact, I have never given thought to that before you posted it. And even after having thought about it, I don't have any clever ideas.
The only thought that spring to mind is the need for secrecy and security.
I think that there is no reason to look at Finrod in this case, as he was clearly inspired by Thingol and Menegroth. So IMO, any search for the answer should start there. This is what is written in The Silmarillion:
Now Melian had much foresight, after the manner of the Maiar; and when the second age of the captivity of Melkor had passed, she councelled Thingol that the Peace of Arda would not last for ever. He took thought therefore how he should make for himself a kingly dwelling, and a place that should be strong, if evil were to wake again in Middle-earth;

[Helcaraxë]

I've been engaged in some important debates (and still am), which is why I haven't posted in a little while. Not to worry though; once my schedule frees up I'll be a more active participant in this activity.

[Lhunithiliel]

A long-term project that needs as many participants and new ideas as possible

[Gil-Galad]

Well,I know that I haven't posted my "thing" yet,but I still want to do it.It somewhere in the middle,I will try to post it by the end of May.

[Manveru]

i don't usually rove to places i don't know well enough to "survive" in, but...

are the great halls of hobbits still available? just wondering :D

[Gil-Galad]

okay Manv.
Just do it ASAP . :) Ok,I will be merciful,do it whenever you want :),I hope that it will be this century ;)

[Manveru]

you can never be wholly sure...

[Lhunithiliel]

Guys, what do you think about a topic for the Study Team ... like:
"Customs and everyday life in ME" ?
Containing known or/and deducted facts about the everyday life of peoples of ME - the way they lived, the places they lived in, the way they dressed, the everyday things they used to do... You know... those "trifles" :)
In other words... let's read between the lines ;) :)

[Gil-Galad]

hmhmm It is nice idea,but let me first finish my topic ;) (I was supposed to do it long time ago,and still I haven't done it,and I am really sorry for that)

But,honestly this suggestion is really good.I think that we don't even need to "read" between the lines,most of the things are in the books,but we can discuss them.

My ideas is a little bit complicated one,Tolkien created a whole world and several races.There were trade relationships and etx,which means that there should have been somthing like an "economy".For example,the dwarves can be easiliy said to be the "bank owners".The possessed -gold,mithril,jewerly.They valued them more than anything else,they traded with them and thus they developed their civilization -the results were really great-Khazad-dum for example.

I think that we can talk a lot about this kind of things.They are more practical,but I believe they have their own place in Tolkien's world.

[Lhunithiliel]

You mean "Economy of ME?"

BRAVO, GG! A veeeery good topic!!! :)

Absolutely!

[Gil-Galad]

Why not???
Everyone can take again a race or for example different kindreds and make some "scientific researches and assumptions".

[Lhunithiliel]

Well, the "Economy" now has become a Project of its own, so ... I was wondering about a new topic.
Of course, that is if the previous one - "The Great Halls" has been covered ... at least partially.
If, however there's no one else who has prepared or intends to prepare a piece about a great hall, then ... we could consider the topic closed and think of another one.

It would be wonderful to read some new suggestions here ! :cool:

[Manveru]

may i ask of a few more moments to finish what i planned to start a little bit earlier? (i.e. great holes of the hobbitses;))

[Lhunithiliel]

:confused: :eek:
Sure, Angel!!
But ... what was it about, anyway? I've already forgotten.

However, just be sure I'll provide you with all the peace and time you need, guarding you fiercly from the gathered crowd. :p

wraithfully yours