Húrin Thalion
12-26-2003, 01:31 AM
Nirnaeth Arnoediad means, as you all know, Unnumbered tears, but did it have to be that way? Was there absolutely no way that the elvenhost could have overthrown that of Morgoth? From the Silmarillion, "Of the fifth battle"
Quote:
"Some say that even then the Eldar could have won the day, had all their hosts proven faithful; for the orcs wavered, and their onslaught was stayed, and already some of them were turning to flight. "
A little later, when Morgoth has loosed his last strength:
"Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of men. "
As these quotes clearly show, the battle could have been won even at the late stage that they speak of. Before the battle itself began, the Elves made one faulty "decision", their impetous charge downhill, that caused great loss when Fingon's host confronted the enemy alone, was driven back and even surrounded. Thus, the western force was severely battered when it came to the decisive engagement, when all forces were thrown in the balance. Of what would had happened if they had stayed and defended the hills I will not speak, since that would have been a completely different battle. But what if the easterlings had stayed true to the Elven lords? The traitors were in the back of Maedhros's army, and I think they would have been moved northward and deployed to protect the exposed flank and attack the orcs from the west. Even though they had started to flee and it is hard to stop a fleeing army, especially if it's made up of orcs who tend to have lousy morale, my guess is that most would have stayed, and the ones that had retreated been caught by a greater fear than the elves could make them feel, that of Morgoth. Thus, the Easterlings could have played a large part on the northern flank. The eastern part of the orc host (since the southern and probably western had been badly mauled and pushed aside by the assault of Turgon, the orcs were formed like an up and down L around Fingon) would have been surrounded on three sides and heavily battered. After this, it becomes sheer speculation. After a while, the forces of Morgoth would have been driven northwards and northwards, small groups surrounded and cut down. At this point the elven victory would seem certain, and some of the orcs run away, and the lords of tee Noldor order a detachment east, to block the way from Thangorodrim. Being pressed Northwards, outflanked the army of Morgoth would at last break and his fiercest warriors be surrounded and slain. The Noldor possesed no great cavalry and would have been tired after many days of fighting, so one couldn't count on an extensive pursuit, but I daresay that the last remnants would be hunted up after a few days. A rather more optimistic version of the Nirnaeth.
Måns
Quote:
"Some say that even then the Eldar could have won the day, had all their hosts proven faithful; for the orcs wavered, and their onslaught was stayed, and already some of them were turning to flight. "
A little later, when Morgoth has loosed his last strength:
"Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of men. "
As these quotes clearly show, the battle could have been won even at the late stage that they speak of. Before the battle itself began, the Elves made one faulty "decision", their impetous charge downhill, that caused great loss when Fingon's host confronted the enemy alone, was driven back and even surrounded. Thus, the western force was severely battered when it came to the decisive engagement, when all forces were thrown in the balance. Of what would had happened if they had stayed and defended the hills I will not speak, since that would have been a completely different battle. But what if the easterlings had stayed true to the Elven lords? The traitors were in the back of Maedhros's army, and I think they would have been moved northward and deployed to protect the exposed flank and attack the orcs from the west. Even though they had started to flee and it is hard to stop a fleeing army, especially if it's made up of orcs who tend to have lousy morale, my guess is that most would have stayed, and the ones that had retreated been caught by a greater fear than the elves could make them feel, that of Morgoth. Thus, the Easterlings could have played a large part on the northern flank. The eastern part of the orc host (since the southern and probably western had been badly mauled and pushed aside by the assault of Turgon, the orcs were formed like an up and down L around Fingon) would have been surrounded on three sides and heavily battered. After this, it becomes sheer speculation. After a while, the forces of Morgoth would have been driven northwards and northwards, small groups surrounded and cut down. At this point the elven victory would seem certain, and some of the orcs run away, and the lords of tee Noldor order a detachment east, to block the way from Thangorodrim. Being pressed Northwards, outflanked the army of Morgoth would at last break and his fiercest warriors be surrounded and slain. The Noldor possesed no great cavalry and would have been tired after many days of fighting, so one couldn't count on an extensive pursuit, but I daresay that the last remnants would be hunted up after a few days. A rather more optimistic version of the Nirnaeth.
Måns