The "Letters" - what to remember

[Lhunithiliel]

An immense amount of Tolkien's time was taken up with the written word: not just his academic work and the stories of 'Middle-earth', but also letters. Many of these had to be written in the way of business, but in any case letter-writing was on most occasions a favourite activity with him.

...priority has been given to those letters where Tolkien discusses his own books; but the selection has also been made with an eye to demonstrating the huge range of Tolkien's mind and interests, and his idiosyncratic but always clear view of the world.
Humphrey Carpenter , "Introduction"



What letters do you think should be remembered well for their content and why?

[Gothmog]

I think that each and every one of the letters "should be remembered well for their content". Apart from giving an insight to the Man behind the name of "John Ronald Reuel Tolkien", they show us the thoughtfulness with which he answered even the simplest of questions and the care he took to ensure clarity in his answers. Something that many of us could try to copy. Myself included.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'd like to start with a very short letter, #3 from the whole collection, or it it rather a part only from what must've been a letter of a very private character from Tolkien to his wife Edith Bratt.

Because of it's brevity, I'd better quote to whole of it.

From a letter to Edith Bratt 26 November 1915

This letter was written from Rugeley Camp in Staffordshire, where he was training. Meanwhile he was working on a poem, 'Kortirion among the Trees'...
The usual kind of morning standing about and freezing and then trotting to get warmer so as to freeze again. We ended up by an hour's bomb-throwing with dummies. Lunch and a freezing afternoon. All the hot days of summer we doubled about at full speed and perspiration, and now we stand in icy groups in the open being talked at! Tea and another scramble – I fought for a place at the stove and made a piece of toast on the end of a knife: what days!
I have written out a pencil copy of 'Kortirion'. I hope you won't mind my sending it to the T.C.B.S. I want to send them something: I owe them all long letters. I will start on a careful ink copy for little you now and send it tomorrow night, as I don't think I shall get more than one copy typed (it is so long). No on second thoughts I am sending you the pencil copy (which is very neat) and shall keep the T.C.B.S. waiting till I can make another.

What impresses me here is to think that such an amazingly beautiful picture as is 'seen' in "Kortirion among the Trees" could be born in the mind of a person in a situation and surroundings as Tolkien was in at that very time!

That is why I think it is worth remembering this letter ... though, of course, I do agree with what was said by the Lord of Balrogs! :cool:

[Eledhwen]

What I gleaned in general from Tolkien's letters was how little time he had for writing. If he had been paid modern authors' rates for his work, maybe the Lord of the Rings would have been finished earlier and maybe he would have had more time for the Silmarillion (though would it ever have been completed, I wonder). I was amused by the letter dissuading a woman from naming her prize cattle after LotR characters.

I do not find it strange that Fair Kortirion should be written in the mud and dust of the trenches of the Somme. The fairest of surroundings can become so familiar that you cease to look at them; but when you find yourself somewhere worse, the memory of them is magnified. Tolkien would be very sad to know that most of the Elm trees in the UK were wiped out. They are only now beginning to recover, mainly in hedgerows.

[Lhunithiliel]

I do not find it strange that Fair Kortirion should be written in the mud and dust of the trenches of the Somme. The fairest of surroundings can become so familiar that you cease to look at them; but when you find yourself somewhere worse, the memory of them is magnified.
Well, now... not strange it is, and I agree with you ... yet it is amazing! Because not every mind can experience what you're saying.

Now...
I think that Letter # 5, written to G. B. Smith and dated on 12 August 1916 - a letter Tolkien wrote still being against the 'ugly face' of war - 11th Lancashire Fusiliers, B.E.F., France, is another one to be remembered.

H.Carpenter reminds us who G.B.Smith was.
While they were at King Edward's School, Birmingham, in 1911, Tolkien and three friends, Rob Gilson, Geoffrey Smith and Christopher Wiseman, formed themselves into an unofficial and semi-secret society which they called 'the T.C.B.S.', initials standing for 'Tea Club and Barrovian Society', an allusion to their fondness for having tea in the school library, illicitly, and in Barrow's Stores near the school.
What this letter is to be remembered with, I think, is Tolkien's understanding that the 'spirit' of that secret society of his youth had expired and he admits in that letter that he sees the end of the T.C.B.S., also comenting briefly on its importance for himself personally and for the others that once had formed it.

some quotes:
TCBS had been granted some spark of fire – certainly as a body if not singly – that was destined to kindle a new light, or, what is the same thing, rekindle an old light in the world;

So far my chief impression is that something has gone crack. I feel just the same to both of you — nearer if anything and very much in need of you —I am hungry and lonely of course – but I don't feel a member of a little complete body now. I honestly feel that the TCBS has ended – but I am not at all sure that it is not an unreliable feeling that will vanish – like magic perhaps when we come together again. Still I feel a mere individual at present — with intense feelings more than ideas but very powerless.

I do however dread and grieve about it – apart from my own personal longings – because I cannot abandon yet the hope and ambitions (inchoate and cloudy I know) that first became conscious at the Council of London. That Council was as you know followed in my own case with my finding a voice for all kinds of pent up things and a tremendous opening up of everything for me:—1 have always laid that to the credit of the inspiration that even a few hours with the four always brought to all of us.

[Eledhwen]

The feeling of closure Tolkien felt at that time was, I believe, prophetic; as only one other TCBS member survived the horrors of the Great War.

One of my lasting childhood memories is of my elderly grandfather, who was also in the battle of the Somme with the Lancashire Fusiliers, in his last days. He thought he was back in the trenches and needed watching closely as he kept putting his cigarette lighter to his arms to "burn off the ticks". This was a 'visible' mental scar. But what other horrors lay buried in his mind that we were not party to, I wonder? My grandfather was no wordsmith, so had no outlet for his pain. Tolkien took his own pain and raised beauty out of the ashes.

From Lhun's post, quoting JRR Tolkien:That Council (of London) was as you know followed in my own case with my finding a voice for all kinds of pent up things and a tremendous opening up of everything for me:—1 have always laid that to the credit of the inspiration that even a few hours with the four always brought to all of us.

[Barliman Butterbur]

Humphrey Carpenter , "Introduction"



What letters do you think should be remembered well for their content and why?

It depends on my interests. My primary interest at the moment is the ME saga, so I'd be more interested in the letters that bear on it. Otherwise, I "tangent out" to whatever else is there. :)

Barley

[Lhunithiliel]

El, that was a touching story - about your grandfather! And a most interesting coincidence, too !!! :eek:

Let's go on though with this 'review" of the "Letters".

Letters ##6 to 8 reveal to the reader the period of establshing and development of Tolkien - the linguist and the Professor. In these letters he comments about his 'passion' towards language -s tudying and about going deeper and further back towards the roots of the English language.
Letter# 6
Middle English is an exciting field-almost uncharted I begin to think, because as soon as one turns detailed personal attention on to any little comer of it the received notions and ideas seem to crumple up and fall to pieces — as far as language goes at any rate. E.D.D. is certainly indispensable, or 'unentbehrlich' as really comes more natural to the philological mind, and I encourage people to browze in it.
Letter # 7 would be extremely interesting to those, who would wish to remember about Tolkien's development in the field of Philology, as well as about the course of his career.
The content of these letters, IMO, also could be taken as to oppose an obviously existing non-understanding and even reproach on part of some of his own colleagues who thought it was a shame for a philologist to 'lose' his 'true' path and start writing fantasy books ... not ever thinking of or/and knowing that in fact it was Tolkien's deepest love and keen interest towards philology and languages, that 'brought' him to the worlds of Aman, Middle-earth, Numenore etc.
As a professional linguist, Tolkien had this aims:
... to advance, to the best of my ability, the growing neighbourliness of linguistic and literary studies, which can never be enemies except by misunderstanding or without loss to both; and to continue in a wider and more fertile field the encouragement of philological enthusiasm among the young.
Anyway, these three letters tell us the 'story' of Tolkien getting to Oxford.
From this point on - starts the creation of the "Hobbit"

[Barliman Butterbur]

I have read — perhaps I should say skimmed — through the Carpenter collection of letters about half a dozen times, and perhaps it will be interesting to present (a bit at a time) the sections I highlighted as of particular interest to me.

Here's something from #7 that caught me by surprise:

"(I should like to add) to veto anything from or influenced by the Disney studios (for all whose works I have a heartfelt loathing)."

Whoa! That was as surprising to me as his distaste for Shakespeare!

And that all the fuss and furor over the dwarfs/dwarves and elfs/elves was nothing more than this (from #17):

"No reviewer (that I have seen), although all have carefully used the correct dwarfs themselves, has commented on the fact (which I only became conscious of through reviews) that I use throughout the 'incorrect' plural dwarves. I am afraid it is just a piece of private bad grammar, rather shocking in a philologist; but I shall have to go on with it." (Emphasis mine)

And this tidbit from #24:

"...why dwarves? Grammar prescribes dwarfs; philology suggests that dwarrows would be the historical form. The real answer is that I knew no better. But dwarves goes well with elves..."

And all this time I thought he had done it all for a quite deliberate stylistic effect.

That's enough for now. Comments, reactions? :)

Barley

[Lhunithiliel]

I could never understand well the big 'fuss' about the 'Dwarves' - issue. :confused:

When I started to study English, rules were clear:

knife - knives
leafe - leaves
Elf - Elves
...hence...
Dwarf - Dwarves

Was that Tolkien's grammar I was taught? ;)

[Barliman Butterbur]

I could never understand well the big 'fuss' about the 'Dwarves' - issue. :confused:

When I started to study English, rules were clear:

knife - knives
leafe - leaves
Elf - Elves
...hence...
Dwarf - Dwarves



Works for me!:D

Barley

[Astaldo]

To me also

[Lhunithiliel]

Good! :D

Let's go on...

In Letter #9, I found sth. that "triggered" a thought. It comes actually not from the letter itself, but from H.Carpenter's introduction to it:
[Tolkien wrote the greater part of The Hobbit during his first seven years as Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford. A text was in existence by the winter of 1932, when it was read by C. S. Lewis, though at this stage the typescript apparently lacked the final chapters, and broke off shortly before the death of the dragon Smaug. This typescript was eventually seen by Susan Dagnall, an Oxford graduate working for the London publishing house of Allen & Unwin, and she encouraged Tolkien to complete the story and offer it for publication.
Good girl, this Susan !!! ;) :D
What would've happened if she hadn't encouraged Tolkien to go for publishing the "Hobbit"?!

Well, thinking of it ... I'd speculate that he might've turned all his mental forces to his beloved Silmarillion stories and we could've been able to read them nowadays in the form of the UT... perhaps .... ;)

Opinions?

[Gothmog]

Good girl, this Susan !!!
What would've happened if she hadn't encouraged Tolkien to go for publishing the "Hobbit"?!

Well, thinking of it ... I'd speculate that he might've turned all his mental forces to his beloved Silmarillion stories and we could've been able to read them nowadays in the form of the UT... perhaps ....

Had the Hobbit not been published there there would have been NO sequal. And then you have the question, without the Hobbit would we have heard of John Ronald Reuel Tolkien? Or would he have remained a brilliant but rather obscure Professor of Philology and Oxford Don?

[Lhunithiliel]

The LotR as a sequel to "The Hobbit" could've not come to being, but I am sure Tolkien would've not abandoned the Silmarillion.
After all.... wasn't it that 'mythology' he wanted to give to England ?

[Gothmog]

I never implied that he would abandon the Sil. I posed the question would we have heard of it had it not been for the Hobbit? The manuscripts could well have simply been among many other papers belonging to Tolkien. We do not know if he would have been able to get it published. The Hobbit was the first step to getting The Silmarillion in print, would this have happened without the Hobbit.

I would very much hope so, but it is a distinct possibility that we would never have heard of Arda without the Hobbit.

[Lhunithiliel]

I 'read' you well, firy creature! ;)

In a way I answered back - IMO, and upon my impressions from what "pieces" I have so far gathered from the "Tolkien-puzzle" I think that it was the Silmarillion which Tolkien was really and deeply moved by.
On another occasion when asked what I think about "What was the work of his life - the LotR or the Silmarillion?" - I then stated that I think it to be the latter. And I still do.

Letter # 19, written to Stanley Unwin in response to the report of a certain reader of the prose 'Quenta Silmarillion' and the poem "The Gest of Beren and Lúthien" (year 1937), Tolkien writes:
My chief joy comes from learning that the Silmarillion is not rejected with scorn. I have suffered a sense of fear and bereavement, quite ridiculous, since I let this private and beloved nonsense out; and I think if it had seemed to you to be nonsense I should have felt really crushed.

I shall certainly now hope one day to be able, or to be able to afford, to publish the Silmarillion!

I promise to give this thought and attention. But I am sure you will sympathize when I say that the construction of elaborate and consistent mythology (and two languages) rather occupies the mind, and the Silmarils are in my heart.
I think, that had he not published the Hobbit first, he would've done all he could to finish the Silmarillion up to a form to satisfy his criteria and offer it to publishing.
Musing further on, I would say that if that had happened - for the Silmarillion to come first, I guess that the Hobbit would've been published, too, as a sequel to the Silm. It was an already existing writing! And .... who knows ... maybe the LotR would've been created, too! ;) :D

But I think it was one of those pure coincidences, the life of a human is full of, that it was the Hobbit that appeared first.
In a way, it was precisely this fact (The Hobbit coming first) which caused Tolkien so much troubles later on with publishing the Silmarillion!

The Hobbit and its "sequel" the LotR are fantastically well written adventure stories! The Silmarillion, however, reveals such a large scale-world! And that makes it not an easy read .... but a must read, as well! It is literature, and philosophy, and mythology, and ... a lot of other things!
I am sure Tolkien would've found a publisher who would've grasped all that and would've most gladly publish the Silmarillion without the Hobbit or/and the LotR existing.

[Gothmog]

In a way I answered back Yes, in a way but not so clearly or so well as in your follow-up :)

I also think that he would have continued with the Sil. and hopefully had it published.

However, while we may well have had the LotR much as it is, I rather think that if the Sil had been published first the Hobbit would have been changed a great deal before it went into print. ;)

[Arvedui]

Just one of those occations where chance changes so much. ;)
IMO, it is fair to say that without Susan Dagnall, none of the published works would have been as we know them today. Maybe not even any Lord of the Rings.
If you think about it, the Hobbit would have been very different if it was published after The Silmarillion.
And The Silmarillion as we know it today would be without those characters that were added as a consequense of The Lord of the Rings. Think about it: no Gandalf!

[Eledhwen]

That lady should get more mention. Encouragement is a rare, wonderful and dynamic gift, and it is the encouraged who goes on to fame and glory.

On the effect publication of The Hobbit had on Tolkien's other works; I believe that the flood of opinions he received as to the merits of his works had an effect on the Silmarillion. If The Hobbit had not been published, Tolkien would not have received all these letters and would not have been affected by their content. As it was he did, and he probably was; so by HoME 10 we were getting revised cosmogenies that better fit into the known science instead of the (IMO) much better earlier works. Thankfully he sent them for criticism to people who preferred the earlier. So, if the Hobbit had not been published, we would have had a completed, but probably unknown Silmarillion. Maybe some would have preferred this; but would they ever have had the opportunity to read it, we wonders, oh yes we wonders.

[Barliman Butterbur]

Speaking of publishing: Evidently a German publishing company (Rütten & Loening of Potsdam) was thinking of doing a translation of "The Hobbit," but they needed to know first if JRR was Jewish:

(#29 and #30)

"29 From a letter to Stanley Unwin 25 July 1938

[Allen & Unwin had negotiated the publication of a German translation of The Hobbit with Rütten & Loening of Potsdam. This firm wrote to Tolkien asking if he was of 'arisch' (aryan) origin.]

"I must say the enclosed letter from Rütten and Loening is a bit stiff. Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or do their lunatic laws require a certificate of 'arisch' origin from all persons of all countries?

Personally I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine.

You are primarily concerned, and I cannot jeopardize the chance of a German publication without your approval. So I submit two drafts of possible answers."

30 To Rütten & Loening Verlag

[One of the 'two drafts' mentioned by Tolkien in the previous letter. This is the only one preserved in the Allen & Unwin files, and it seems therefore very probable that the English publishers sent the other one to Germany. It is clear that in that letter Tolkien refused to make any declaration of 'arisch' origin.]

25 July 1938 20 Northmoor Road, Oxford

"Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter. .... I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."

===============================

Barley

[Arvedui]

I've loved that reply to the Germans ever since I first read it.
He tells the publisher to "go to hell" so nicely that I bet the publisher looked forward to the journey.
Just brilliant!

[Lhunithiliel]

"Go hang!" is even better! ;) :D

[Lhunithiliel]

The next following letters ## 9 - 13 introduce to the reader Tolkien - the cartographer and illustrator of his own writings, as well as rhune - maker.

Letter # 13 also tells about the 'break-through' of "The Hobbit" on the American book-market.

The year is 1937 and "The Hobbit" is about to be published!

[Barliman Butterbur]

The next following letters ## 9 - 13 introduce to the reader Tolkien - the cartographer and illustrator of his own writings, as well as rhune - maker.

Letter # 13 also tells about the 'break-through' of "The Hobbit" on the American book-market.

The year is 1937 and "The Hobbit" is about to be published!

I'm a bit nonplussed here: You mention the letters, but submit no salient passages from them for us to consider. Don't forget that not everyone looking at these posts has the collection of letters to refer to. Also, shall we deal with one thing at a time, or shall each of us submit our own goodies all at once? What shall be our policy?

Barley

[Lhunithiliel]

Oooops ! :o

There we go:
Letter # 9(4 January 1937; to Susan Dagnall)

Introduction - H.Carpenter (excerpts):
It was on 3 October 1936 that Tolkien sent the completed typescript to Allen & Unwin.
By the time that Tolkien wrote it, the book had been accepted for publication, and he was already preparing maps and illustrations.
Tolkien writes:
I have redrawn two items: the chart, which has to be tipped in (in Chapter I), and the general map. I can only hope – as I have small skill, and no experience of preparing such things for reproduction – that they may possibly serve. The other maps I have decided are not wanted.
I have redrawn (as far as I am capable) one or two of the amateur illustrations of the 'home manuscript', conceiving that they might serve as endpapers, frontispiece or what not. I think on the whole such things, if they were better, might be an improvement. But it may be impossible at this stage, and in any case they are not very good and may be technically unsuitable. It would be kind if you would return the rejected.
Letter # 10 (I7 January 1937; To C. A. Furth, Allen & Unwin)
I am also grateful and pleasantly surprised that the drawings for 'the Hobbit' can be used. I leave it in your hands as to the best way of reproducing and using them. Actually the chart – the map with runes – was intended to be tipped in (folded) in Chapter I, opposite the first mention of it: 'a piece of parchment rather like a map', towards the end of the chapter. The other map in the 'home MS.' came at the end, and the long narrow drawing of Mirkwood2 was at the beginning. The Elvenking's Gate came at the end of Ch. VIII, Lake Town in Ch. X, The Front Gate in Ch. XI after the description of the adventurers' first sight of it: 'they could see the dark cavernous opening in a great cliff-wall'.
Letter # 11 (to Allen & Unwin ;5 February 1937)
[Concerning the reproduction of illustrations in The Hobbit.]
I am still surprised that these indifferent pictures have been accepted at all, and that you have taken so much trouble with them – especially against economics (a factor I had not forgotten, and the reason for my originally forswearing illustrations).
Letter #12 (to Allen & Unwin; 13 April, 1937) (after a revised variant of The Hobbit)
You will find with the revised proofs a draft of the jacket, for your criticism. I discovered (as I anticipated) that it was rather beyond my craft and experience. But perhaps the general design would do?
I foresee the main objections.
There are too many colours: blue, green, red, black. (The 2 reds are an accident; the 2 greens inessential.) This could be met, with possible improvement, by substituting white for red; and omitting the sun, or drawing a line round it. The presence of the sun and moon in the sky together refers to the magic attaching to the door.
It is too complicated, and needs simplifying: e.g. by reducing the mountains to a single colour, and simplification of the jagged 'fir-trees'.....
In redrawing the whole thing could be reduced – if you think the runes are attractive. Though magical in appearance they merely run:
The Hobbit or There and Back Again, being the record of a year's journey made by Bilbo Baggins; compiled from his memoirs by J. R. R. Tolkien and published by George Allen & Unwin.
Letter # 13 (To C. A. Furth, Allen & Unwin; 13 May 1937)
(Tolkien is informed about the interest towards publishing the Hobbit in the USA)
As for the illustrations: I am divided between knowledge of my own inability and fear of what American artists (doubtless of admirable skill) might produce. In any case I agree that all the illustrations ought to be by the same hand: four professional pictures would make my own amateurish productions look rather silly.
It might be advisable, rather than lose the American interest, to let the Americans do what seems good to them – as long as it was possible (I should like to add) to veto anything from or influenced by the Disney studios (for all whose works I have a heartfelt loathing).
My opinion, if asked for, - these letters bring an air of excitement of his anticipation to see his work published.
But what is also strikingly obvious - there we 'meet' again, the typical high criticism and exactingness (is there such a word? :o ) of Tolkien towards himself and his own art - both - in words and in colours.
***

Barley, I started the thread with the intention to keep a memory of the most important issues found in Tolkien's letters - for reference and for learning reasons. :)
I am trying to keep the chronology, though I admit that sometimes some letters from later periods, as well as facts from other sources, will be most welcomed in connection to a current issue raised.

Also, now - speaking of those illustrations, it'd be lovely to have attached some examples! :)

[Barliman Butterbur]

...the typical high criticism and exactingness (is there such a word? :o )...

You're probably looking for exactitude, although when in a pinch we are all free to make up our own words at need — how about exacticity or exactudinessness?;):D

Barley

[Lhunithiliel]

When applying :
http://www.googlefight.com/

then one gets the following result:

exactingness - ( 1 130 results)

exactitude - ( 394 000 results)

And of course, exactitude is the winner! :p :D :D
But still it's a comforting thought that there is such a word as exactingness !!! :cool:
*******

Now ... what you are saying about the 'freedom' of building whichever and whatever words one likes, reminded me of young Tolkien involved in speaking the invented 'Animalic' language of his cousin Marjorie Incledon ... and how some time later the "Nevbosh" - language was created by the young "linguists" - Ronald Tolkien and Mary Incledon .... and how much they enjoyed it....so much they even 'chanted limericks in it'!

In H.Carpenter's "Biography" ( 'Private Lang' - and Edith) he writes:
This kind of thing caused a good deal of amusement at Barnt Green, and as Ronald reached adolesence it gave him an idea. ... Could he not take this further and invent a complete language , something more serious and properly orhanised tnhan 'Nevbosh'...
Certainly it seemed worth trying: if he had been interested in music he wouldvery likely have wanted to compose melodies, so why should he not make up a personal system of words that would be as it were a private symphony?

To think of what has come out of the inocent childish 'language game' and of that thought that came later !!! :cool:

What is also interesting - as H.C. admits it too - is that a lot of children like making up their own words and even 'languages' . Here, in my lands :), there is one such 'childish' invented language that almost every child knows of - we call it the 'chicken language'. You just put "pi-" in front of every syllable and there ... you start speaking "chicken language" ! :D

I am sure children all over the world do this - invent their 'secret' ways of communication, different from the commonly used language around them ...

Strange, isn't it ! :rolleyes:

[Eledhwen]

Yes. In 'backslang', the first letter of every word is put at the end of the word.

I love Tolkien's drawings! His art developed into unique stylistic representations that would probably have been 'developed' out of him if he had ever attended art college, ending up with a style approved of by his tutor. Instead we have something unique and other-worldly. And then there are the quaint watercolours in The Letters of Father Christmas which must have taken much time away from the Sil (though no doubt, in that case, worth it!)

:p

[Barliman Butterbur]

Around October 1940, Tolkien's son Michael was injured, and Tolkien wrote to him. What transpired in the process was Tolkien's thoughts of Hitler and the nature of the world in general, from which we can begin to understand the tragic foundations of The Silmarillion:

===============================

40 From a letter to Michael Tolkien 6 October 1940

[In September 1939 Tolkien's second son, then aged nearly nineteen, volunteered for army service, but was instructed to spend one year at university and then enlist. He entered Trinity College, Oxford, and left it again the following summer to train as an anti-aircraft gunner.]

At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts.

...plain reasoning seems to show that Hitler must attack this country direct and v. heavily soon, and before the summer.

This is a fallen world.

The world has been 'going to the bad' all down the ages. .

...each new mode has its special dangers: but the 'hard spirit of concupiscence' has walked down every street, and sat leering in every house, since Adam fell.

It is a fallen world, and there is no consonance between our bodies, minds, and souls. ... However, the essence of a fallen world is that the best cannot be attained by free enjoyment, or by what is called 'self-realization' (usually a nice name for self-indulgence, wholly inimical to the realization of other selves); but by denial, by suffering.

I have in this War a burning private grudge – which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light. Nowhere, incidentally, was it nobler than in England, nor more early sanctified and Christianized. ....
Pray for me. I need it, sorely. I love you.

===============================

Barley

[Lhunithiliel]

Around October 1940, Tolkien's son Michael was injured, and Tolkien wrote to him. What transpired in the process was Tolkien's thoughts of Hitler and the nature of the world in general, from which we can begin to understand the tragic foundations of The Silmarillion:...
What surprises me here, Master Innkeeper, is the last line of your statement. :confused:
Why:
BoLT - I; Introduction by Chr.Tolkien:
The Book of Lost Tales was begun by my father in 1916-17 during the First War, when he was 25 years old, and left incomplete several years later. It is the starting-point, at least in fully-formed narrative, of the history of Valinor and Middle-earth; but before the Tales were complete he turned to the composition of long poems, the Lay of Leithian in rhyming couplets (the story of Beren and Lúthien), and The Children of Húrin in alliterative verse.

The prose form of the 'mythology' began again from a new starting-point* in a quite brief synopsis, or 'Sketch' as he called it, written in 1926 and expressly intended to provide the necessary background of knowledge for the understanding of the alliterative poem. The further written development of the prose form proceeded from that 'Sketch' in a direct line to the version of 'The Silmarillion' which was nearing completion towards the end of 1937, when my father broke off to send it as it stood to Allen and Unwin in November of that year; but there were also important side-branches and subordinate texts composed in the 1930s, as the Annals of Valinor and the Annals of Beleriand (fragments of which are extant also in the Old English translations made by Ælfwine (Eriol)), the cosmological account called Ambarkanta, the Shape of the World, by Rúmil, and the Lhammas or 'Account of Tongues', by Pengolod of Gondolin. Thereafter the history of the First Age was laid aside for many years, until The Lord of the Rings was completed, but in the years preceding its actual publication my father returned to 'The Silmarillion' and associated works with great vigour.
All the underlined years in the above quote (underlined by me, of course :) ), point out, and in fact it is a well known fact , IMO, that the whole story, that would later form the "Silmarillion", was started and received its development before Hitler and before the WW-II ...
So, can we really ascribe the 'tragic foundations of The Silmarillion' to these events, that in fact happened in a period later than the story had been created? :rolleyes:

I do admit that Tolkien must have been deeply disgusted by war and its ill effect upon the human society and upon humans, in general - him being on the front during WW-I, and in a way I would tend to believe that Morgoth in fact is the personification of that "ill/dark side" of the humans ...
But somehow I don't think that the Silmarillion was much affected by the events in the WW-II and Hitler ... at least, not the original story, which, of course, is to be found mainly in the BoLT-s and some of the later writings (the quote above).

40 From a letter to Michael Tolkien 6 October 1940

At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts.
It seems so simple when you read one of these 'eternal' truths... not thinking, in fact, that they do exist and one has to just "step back" from the "big picture of life" in order to be able to see them!

As I see, the next lines, quoted by you, come from other Tolkien's letters and expressed opinions.
This is a fallen world.

The world has been 'going to the bad' all down the ages. .

...each new mode has its special dangers: but the 'hard spirit of concupiscence' has walked down every street, and sat leering in every house, since Adam fell.

It is a fallen world, and there is no consonance between our bodies, minds, and souls. ... However, the essence of a fallen world is that the best cannot be attained by free enjoyment, or by what is called 'self-realization' (usually a nice name for self-indulgence, wholly inimical to the realization of other selves); but by denial, by suffering.
The 'theme' of the 'fallen world' - I find it mostly in the the 'theme' of Men in Tolkien's writings. A huge theme!

As for the letters the additional quote s were taken from - they do contain many new very interesting topics and I hope we will discuss them when we come to them.

[Barliman Butterbur]

What surprises me here, Master Innkeeper, is the last line of your statement. :confused:
Why...

Why what? :confused: If you're asking me Why does the Silmarillion seem so dark, that is the impression I come away with from reading it. If I read it without knowing anything from the literature about the work, I have to say again: it has a pessimism and a tragedy from which there is no relief. I believe that is in great measure a reflection of T's combat experience, and his way of dealing with it. As I've said before, I found not even one passage which is remotely humorous. It's all dead serious, about broken oaths, betrayals, vengeance, deception, and in many cases appalling cruelty. It's about great noble projects destroyed beyond repair. Does that help?:)

Barley

[Lhunithiliel]

Oh, my English!!! :o :D
My "Why" was from "Why was I surprised by yhe last statement?" and the long quote I provided, and the comments below it, was the answer! Sort of a rhetorical question, you see, was that "Why" .... :)

As for teh 'dark' spirit of the Silm - Why! ;) :D ... I do agree!

[Lhunithiliel]

Googling for Tolkien-stuff, in three different-topics searches, TTF appeared on the front pages!

But THIS (http://www.google.com/search?q=Tolkien+Translation+Copyrights&hl=bg&lr=&lr=&start=10&sa=N) took my breath away! :eek:
(look in the middle of the page)

It so sharply convinced me once again of how important it is to take responsibility of what we are posting on these 'pages'!! :cool:

* * *
So, let's continue :)

Letter #14 written to Allen & Unwin on 28 May 1937.

As "the publishers had suggested to Tolkien that The Hobbit should be published in October 1937, just after the beginning of the Michaelmas Term at Oxford.", Tolkien's comment, which I had marked was:
This is, of course, your business, and entails many considerations outside my knowledge. ..... But as far as G.B. is concerned, I cannot help thinking that you are possibly mistaken in taking Oxford University and its terms into account; and alternatively, if you do, in considering early October better than June. Most of O.U. will take no interest in such a story; that pan of it that will is already clamouring, and indeed beginning to add The Hobbit to my long list of never-never procrastinations.

[Lhunithiliel]

Letter # 15 - To Allen & Unwin, 31 August 1937

A very interesting one, revealing Tolkien's own explanations and comments on how 'The Hobbit came to being (in his mind and on paper - under his pen ;) )

First of all, let's have in mind H.Carpenter's introduction to the matter :
[When The Hobbit was published on 21 September 1937, Allen & Unwin printed the following remarks on the jacket-flap: 'J. R. R. Tolkien.... has four children and The Hobbit .... was read aloud to them in nursery days. .... The manuscript.... was lent to friends in Oxford and read to their children. .... The birth of The Hobbit recalls very strongly that of 'Alice in Wonderland'. Here again a professor of an abstruse subject is at play.'

Tolkien now sent the following commentary on these remarks.

Nursery ...I have never had one, and the study has always been the place for such amusements. ... My eldest boy was thirteen when he heard the serial. It did not appeal to the younger ones who had to grow up to it successively....

Lent ...it was not, as far as I know, ever read to children, and only read by one child (a girl of 12-13), before Mr Unwin tried it out...

Abstruse ... The magic and mythology and assumed 'history' and most of the names (e.g. the epic of the Fall of Gondolin) are, alas!, drawn from unpublished inventions, known only to my family, Miss Griffiths1 and Mr Lewis. I believe they give the narrative an air of 'reality' and have a northern atmosphere. But I wonder whether one should lead the unsuspecting to imagine it all comes out of the 'old books', or tempt the knowing to point out that it does not?...'Philology' – my real professional bag of tricks – may be abstruse, and perhaps more comparable to Dodgson's maths.

Professor...Strictly (I believe) Dodgson was not a 'professor', but a college lecturer — though he was kind to my kind in making the 'professor' the best character (unless you prefer the mad gardener) in Sylvie & Bruno. Why not 'student'? The word has the added advantage that Dodgson's official status was Student of Christ Church. If you think it good, and fair (the compliment to The Hobbit is rather high) to maintain the comparison – Looking-glass ought to be mentioned. It is much closer in every way. ....

J. R. R. Tolkien.

Now ... what is also IMO worth having in mind while reading this letter, is a brief note -1 thetero:
It reads:
1. The publishers wrote in the blurb on the dust-jacket of The Hobbit: "Professor Tolkien – but not his publishers – still remains to be convinced that anybody will want to read his most delightful history of a Hobbit's journey.'

[Barliman Butterbur]

Friday, Feb. 4, 2005 Posted: 7:30:42PM EST

The astounding popularity of J.R.R. Tolkien and his writings--magnified many times over by the success of the "Lord of the Rings" films--has ensured that Tolkien's fantasy world of moral meaning stands as one of the great literary achievements of our times.

In some sense, Tolkien was a man born out of time. A philologist at heart, Tolkien was most at home in the world of ancient ages, even as he witnessed the barbarism and horrors of the 20th century. Celebrated as a popular author, he was an eloquent witness to permanent truths. His popularity on university campuses, extending from his own day right up to the present, is a powerful indication of the fact that Tolkien's writings reach the hearts of the young, and those looking for answers.

Even as Tolkien is celebrated as an author and literary figure, some of his most important messages were communicated by means of letters, and some of the most important letters were written to his sons.

Tolkien married his wife Edith in 1916, and the marriage was blessed with four children. Of the four, three were boys. John was born in 1917, Michael in 1920, and Christopher in 1924. Priscilla, the Tolkiens' only daughter, was born in 1929.

Tolkien dearly loved his children, and he left a literary legacy in the form of letters. Many of these letters were written to his sons, and these letters represent, not only a hallmark of literary quality, but a treasure of Christian teaching on matters of manhood, marriage, and sex. Taken together, these letters constitute a priceless legacy, not only to the Tolkien boys, but to all those with whom the letters have been shared.

In 1941, Tolkien wrote a masterful letter to his son Michael, dealing with marriage and the realities of human sexuality. The letter reflects Tolkien's Christian worldview and his deep love for his sons, and at the same time, also acknowledges the powerful dangers [according to the writer of the article at any rate] inherent in unbridled sexuality.

The complete (three pages long!) article is at http://www.christianpost.com/article/editorial/281/section/from.father.to.son--jrr.tolkien.on.sex/1.htm

Barley

[Barliman Butterbur]

-- Olog-Hai

While at the Oxford Literary Festival on 12 April promoting my book The Science of Middle-Earth, I had the great pleasure of meeting Charles Noad, who assisted Christopher Tolkien in the production of The History of Middle-earth. He drew the assembled companies' attention to an unpublished letter by J. R. R. Tolkien in which he refers to the vexed question of orkish sex.

In The Science of Middle-earth I contrasted the reproduction of orcs with that of all other 'speaking peoples', noting that only in orcs is there no mention of females in any of Tolkien's work. From this I discussed several options, including the possibility that all orcs are female, and they reproduce clonally. The unpublished letter, though, makes Tolkien's position clear.

The letter came up for sale at an auction at Sotheby's in London on 11 and 12 July, 2002. It is dated 21 October 1963, and is addressed to a Mrs Munby in response to a number of questions posed by her son Stephen about The Lord of the Rings. The letter is long, but in one place reads as follows:

'There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known'.

Tolkien also goes on to discuss the use of the word 'goblin':

'In The Hobbit 'goblin' is used... but goblin is a fairly modern word, and very vague in its application to any sort of bogey in the dark.'

Source: http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/041305.html

Barley