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Lhunithiliel
10-20-2004, 08:34 AM
There are, I think, lots of 'pieces' within Tolkien's writings, where one either finds much more said 'between the lines and behind the words' ... or 'feels' there is something there, yet cannot 'catch' it... :rolleyes:

So, let's have a place where we could bring forward such extracts and discuss them! :)

* * *

I'll start with this one:

Now the Children of Ilśvatar are Elves and Men, the Firstborn and the Followers. And amid all the splendours of the World, its vast halls and spaces, and its wheeling fires, Ilśvatar chose a place for their habitation in the Deeps of Time and in the midst of the innumerable stars.
And this habitation might seem a little thing to those who consider only the majesty of the Ainur, and not their terrible sharpness; as who should take the whole field of Arda for the foundation of a pillar and so raise it until the cone of its summit were more bitter than a needle; or who consider only the immeasurable vastness of the World, which still the Ainur are shaping, and not the minute precision to which they shape all things therein.
Ainulindale

Now .. I am lost here! :confused: :eek:
Help me "catch" the 'thing' ! :)

Arvedui
10-20-2004, 08:50 AM
I think that I am on thin ice here, but let me try:

I think that the author tries to tell us the importance of looking at all the faets of everything that follows later in the book. Not only the details, but also the 'whole'.
If we the readers only understand one side of the mythology, then we might be led to think that Arda is just "a little thing."
Rather hard to explain, but I will try to break it down a bit and see if that helps.

And this habitation might seem a little thing to those who:

- consider only the majesty of the Ainur, and not their terrible sharpness;

(as)
-who should take the whole field of Arda for the foundation of a pillar and so raise it until the cone of its summit were more bitter than a needle;

(or)
- who consider only the immeasurable vastness of the World, (which still the Ainur are shaping,) and not the minute precision to which they shape all things therein.

I have tried to highlight the phrases that I think is important in understanding this.

Gildor
10-20-2004, 07:41 PM
Do not dismiss that which is small merely because it stands beside something great.

Lhunithiliel
10-20-2004, 09:03 PM
My thoughts....
And this habitation might seem a little thing to those who consider only the majesty of the Ainur, and not their terrible sharpness...
I can't "catch" why 'majesty' is opposed to 'sharpness'...
and why this 'sharpness' (in whatever meaning it was used for the Ainur! ) is 'terrible! :confused:

... as who should take the whole field of Arda for the foundation of a pillar and so raise it until the cone of its summit were more bitter than a needle;
Perhaps this means that no matter how important Arda is, it is not the most important creation... Other "Ardas" there were, too ... Besides, this is only a 'habitation' ; more important are its dwellers ...
Arv, is this what you meant? :rolleyes:
... or who consider only the immeasurable vastness of the World, which still the Ainur are shaping, and not the minute precision to which they shape all things therein.
Gildor, I think is close here! :)

Yet ... it is not about the Valar, but about the Ainur!
This all of a sudden gives the reader a broad perspective of looking at the World, where Arda - the 'habitation' of Men is but only one part of it, though beautiful.
And then comes the thought that precisely because it is so, it must be taken good care of and protected and preserved .... :rolleyes:

Arvedui
10-21-2004, 07:38 AM
If you are impressed by the majesty of the Ainur (i.e. their work as a whole), don't forget that Arda in itself is a great accomplishment. But Arda is but one part of all the work of the Ainur.

Tolkien tries to make us look at the greatness of all things in their right perspective. Even if the universe is a great thing, it does not make the creation of Arda any lesser.

Lhunithiliel
10-21-2004, 10:15 AM
If you are impressed by the majesty of the Ainur (i.e. their work as a whole), don't forget that Arda in itself is a great accomplishment. But Arda is but one part of all the work of the Ainur.

Tolkien tries to make us look at the greatness of all things in their right perspective. Even if the universe is a great thing, it does not make the creation of Arda any lesser.
That's clear ! :)
Why opposing "majesty" to "sharpness", and what is meant by "sharpness", and why this "sharpness" is 'terrible' ??? :p

Arvedui
10-21-2004, 11:31 AM
I was hoping that you might overlook that I skipped that question... :( :D
To be honest: I haven't got a clue.

Lhunithiliel
10-22-2004, 07:15 AM
Generally I think that Reading between the lines and behind words bears a certain danger of reading 'into' Tolkien's writings, especially when one has a certain tendency to let ones fantasy go wild...
There are always 'safer' places, once you feel 'endagered' here! :p

Lhunithiliel
10-23-2004, 10:04 AM
Any more opinions about this quote?

And, please, anyone is welcome to provide another such "puzzling" piece from Tolkien's writings! :)