The C. S. Lewis Thread

[Barliman Butterbur]

Those who know Tolkien's history know the part played in it by his friend C.S. Lewis. This thread is for him. For openers:

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Movie makers give CS Lewis Lord Of The Rings treatment


By Senay Boztas, Arts Correspondent


IT was a friendship that thrived on a complex fantasy world, created in an English pub, that produced some of the most memorable literary characters ever written. Now a new film by a Scottish-based director will celebrate the real-life fellowship of two literary giants, JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis.

CS Lewis: The Man Who Created Narnia aims to ride a wave of interest in Lewis that is anticipated to accompany the rel ease in 2005 of up to seven films based on his Narnia novels. First to reach the public will be the £40 million The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe, filmed by Shrek director Andrew Adamson and tipped for the same kind of success as The Lord Of The Rings.

Norman Stone’s 54-minute drama, which starts shooting in Oxford this week, is a more modest affair. The film, being made for the Hallmark Channel will follow Lewis’s life from his troubled childhood to his fantasy workshops with Tolkien in an Oxford pub, where he dreamed up his Chronicles Of Narnia.

Details at http://www.sundayherald.com/45577

Barley

[King Aragorn]

I'm looking forward to seeing The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe when it comes out. I've been reading books by C.S. Lewis a lot longer than I've been reading books by Tolkien. I like both of them!

[e.Blackstar]

I'm looking forward to seeing The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe when it comes out. I've been reading books by C.S. Lewis a lot longer than I've been reading books by Tolkien. I like both of them!

Ditto...I can't wait until the move comes out, but it had better be accurate! Its not like there's too much material anymore!

[Astaldo]

I hope these film will be true. It would be great.

[Lindir]

I don't like Lewis. His books are just too religous for my liking.

[Barliman Butterbur]

I don't like Lewis. His books are just too religious for my liking.

I don't know much about Lewis. As a matter of fact, what I do know about him has come from learning about him through reading about Tolkien. I learned that he was an atheist for a long time, and Tolkien brought him back to Christianity, and was hoping for him to become a Catholic. But Lewis reverted back to his Northern Ireland Protestantism (which he evidently rejected early on), which disappointed Tolkien.

So — what are the elements of religion that you see in his writings?:)

Barley

[Lindir]

So — what are the elements of religion that you see in his writings?:)
Well, I've only read the Narnia Chronicles but they are very religious indeed. There is the creation, the judgement day, the lion sacrificing himself for mankind (and animal-, faun- and dwarfkind etc). I used to like the books as a child, but I as I got older and realised the whole thing was an allegory of Christianity I felt deceived. I don't want religion rammed down my throat like that. If I ever have children I certainly will not read Narnia to them.
In addition I might say that I'm not over impressed by the quality of his writing either, even though I am aware that they are written for children. But so was the Hobbit and there is really no comparing the two.

[Barliman Butterbur]

...as I got older and realised the whole thing was an allegory of Christianity I felt deceived. I don't want religion rammed down my throat like that.

Nor do I. But I have the feeling that Lewis was hardly trying to sneak Christianity onto his readers. However, I'd have to read Lewis to see if I got the same feeling you did. But I heartily share your abhorrence of having someone else's religion forced upon me, especially when it tries to get into secular laws that effect everyone. But that's the subject for another thread!:)

I'd like to hear more people's opinions about Lewis!

Barley

[Talierin]

Lewis was an Anglican... not sure EXACTLY how that differs from other christian denominations, but apparently Tolkien didn't like it a whole lot.

And one can hardly be surprised if Narnia is christian allegory, considering that Lewis was one of the greatest Christian theologians of all time. But eish, banning your kids (or not reading it or whatever) from reading narnia isn't the way to go - I know plenty of non-christians who still love it anyways

[Lindir]

Lewis was an Anglican... not sure EXACTLY how that differs from other christian denominations, but apparently Tolkien didn't like it a whole lot.

And one can hardly be surprised if Narnia is christian allegory, considering that Lewis was one of the greatest Christian theologians of all time. But eish, banning your kids (or not reading it or whatever) from reading narnia isn't the way to go - I know plenty of non-christians who still love it anyways
It's not surprising at all, if you know it. But as a child, how was I to know that. And banning children from reading a book is very different to not reading it to them. I would never ban anyone from reading anything.
I also know many non-christians who have liked the books but that hardly alters my point of view, which is the only one I can give.

[33Peregrin]

I finally read the Chronicles of Narnia earlier this year when I got the box set for 15$. I had known about Narnia previously though. I have some of the old Narnia movies, like Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. I loved that movie so much when I was younger that I went in every closet I could find trying to get to Narnia. I read LWATW when I was younger too. Anyways, when I read them earlier this year, I didn't really enjoy them as much as I expected to. Oh well. I do recognize the heavy religious aspects of the book, but I don't let it get to me that much. If you like the story, then enjoy it, and if you don't, then don't.

[Isilme]

It's weird, i really want to read Narnia, they're a classic!!! but i alway fall asleep when i'm reading them. I did get through the lion the witch and the wardrobe, and it was really good, but it took like 2 months....

[Dark_Glamdring]

Guayya, I have to read something , Have no idea about CS Lewis books. Gotta find the books

[e.Blackstar]

Screwtape Letters is good...though a bit deep and very Christian, is funny and coolio

[Barliman Butterbur]

DAVID CRUMM: C.S. Lewis Festival a chance to watch debaters disagree -- with respect

October 29, 2004

BY DAVID CRUMM
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

What a bumpy ride toward Election Day! The political furor is at a fever pitch. Tragic news keeps breaking in Iraq. Gas prices are shooting through the roof. And, after all that, many of us may catch the flu.

It's enough to make me pull a quilt over my head and consider hibernating until spring -- or, perhaps, to drive to Petoskey for a much-needed spiritual retreat during the monthlong, second annual C. S. Lewis Festival. There's not only the beauty of fall leaves to contemplate along the road, but delightful thoughts of Lewis' inspirational fantasy novels, which predated Harry Potter by half a century and inspired countless imaginative novels.

It's no accident that the kickoff of the dozen Lewis programs sprinkled throughout November falls on the Thursday night just two days after the election.

"It's a perfect time to shed all the bumper stickers and the labels we've been using for each other," said Sarah Arthur, an evangelical Christian author from Petoskey who'll give half of the opening talk on Lewis at a community college at 7 p.m. Thursday. "The more polarized our country gets politically, the more we need a chance to level all those categories that divide us and to think about our lives in a fresh way. We need to stop for a moment and appreciate that, after all the political conflict, there are still things we have in common."

Full article at: http://www.freep.com/news/religion/crumm29e_20041029.htm

Barley

[Dr. Ransom]

Barli, great thread.

I have not read all of the Narnia books, though I like them enough, I just haven't gotten around to it.

As my SN suggests, I am a big fan of the Space Trilogy; Lewis' work that came from a deal between himself Tolkien to write a Trilogy of adult fiction (can we guess what Tolkien's Trilogy was?!? lol)

I very much enjoy Lewis' non-fiction as well, and I am inclined to believe that he may have been Tolkien's academic superior, though I'm sure the two men were humble enough they would not appeciate being compared. I have a friend who is reading every book written by Lewis, I am not keeping up, but I have read such books as The Great Divorce, Mere Christianity, and The Screwtape Letters.

I have read a bit about Lewis, and never heard anything about Tolkien being disappointed about Lewis' Protestant Theology, indeed they seemed to agree on the centeral issues of Christianity.

My favorite work by Lewis he also considered his masterpiece: Till we have Faces. This book rocks my face off, and I am very suprised it is not better known among fantasy buffs such as those on this board. Extremely well written.

A book I strongly recomend is: The Question of God- CS Lewis and Sigmond Freud debate God, Love, Sex and the Meaning of Life, by Nicholi. Go buy it on Amazon...

-Ransom

[Barliman Butterbur]

Lewis biography takes an honest approach

By Kevin O'Kelly, Globe Correspondent | November 3, 2004

C.S. Lewis: A Life
By Michael White, Carrol and Graf, 288pp, $25

In external events, the life of Clive Staples Lewis offers little promising material to a biographer. He pursued sedentary work as a literature professor and followed a predictable routine for most of his 65 years. We know next to nothing about his service in World War I (which he barely addresses in his autobiography) and little more about his romantic life, in spite of the play and film ''Shadowlands" that depicted his five-year relationship with Joy Davidman.

Details at: http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2004/11/03/lewis_biography_takes_an_honest_approach/

Barley

[Barliman Butterbur]

Eagle and Child: J.R.R. Tolkien & C.S. Lewis

In this compelling Historyonics production, Jason Cannon chronicles the friendship between two prolific writers. Instead of proceeding chronologically, Cannon's script moves back and forth in time, allowing the audience to see connections between Tolkien's and Lewis' work and their life experiences. The acting -- by author Cannon, Christopher Hickey, Terry Meddows, Meghan Maguire and Larry Roberson -- is topnotch, as are the choice of music and the scenic design and lighting. Some may find the philosophical discussions of myth, faith and forgiveness a trifle erudite; perhaps we're not accustomed to being intellectually challenged and dramatically fulfilled at the same time. Through November 21 in the Des Lee Auditorium of the Missouri History Museum, Lindell Boulevard and DeBaliviere Avenue. Call 314-361-5858.

Source: http://www.riverfronttimes.com/issues/2004-11-10/culture/stage3.html

Barley

[Barliman Butterbur]

Eagle and Child: J.R.R. Tolkien & C.S. Lewis

In this compelling Historyonics production, Jason Cannon chronicles the friendship between two prolific writers. Instead of proceeding chronologically, Cannon's script moves back and forth in time, allowing the audience to see connections between Tolkien's and Lewis' work and their life experiences. The acting -- by author Cannon, Christopher Hickey, Terry Meddows, Meghan Maguire and Larry Roberson -- is topnotch, as are the choice of music and the scenic design and lighting. Some may find the philosophical discussions of myth, faith and forgiveness a trifle erudite; perhaps we're not accustomed to being intellectually challenged and dramatically fulfilled at the same time. Through November 21 in the Des Lee Auditorium of the Missouri History Museum, Lindell Boulevard and DeBaliviere Avenue. Call 314-361-5858.

Source: http://www.riverfronttimes.com/issues/2004-11-10/culture/stage3.html

Barley

[Barliman Butterbur]

Northern Michigan town celebrates work of British author C.S. Lewis

November 19, 2004, 5:45 PM

PETOSKEY, Mich. (AP) -- With surprisingly little squirming, dozens of elementary school pupils sit cross-legged on the library floor as a woman in a high-backed rocking chair reads from "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe."

"I love that book," says 10-year-old Spencer Nemecek, who has read the classic children's novel before. The lessons he draws from it would warm the heart of author C.S. Lewis: "Evil does not prevail, and you're never too old to believe in fairy tales."

Meanwhile, at a church across town, an artist readies a display of illustrations from the book. A young people's theater group arrives to rehearse a musical play based on the story. At the local community college, a Lewis scholar begins a lecture entitled, "The Way Into Narnia."

Full article at: http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw107473_20041119.htm

Barley

[Eledhwen]

I read CS Lewis long before I read Tolkien (something to do with my mother giving me the LotR to read, whereas I chose to read the Narnia Chronicles myself!

I enjoyed the Narnia Chronicles, but as for the arguments about Christianity being involved, I find the Christian truths more starkly presented in LotR than in the Narnia books - which I put down to the power of myth over allegory. Lewis did actually write a book based on known mythology: Til We Have Faces, which I found a very enjoyable read, full of fantasy with a fantastic twist in the tail. I have also read Lewis' Christian apologetics, including The Screwtape Letters, which might be a difficult read for the language level, for some people these days. My favourite of these is The Great Divorce, which I suspect was written self-indulgently.

Some of the Narnia Chronicles were dramatised by the BBC in the '80s, and if you can stand the low-tech special effects, are available on video and DVD. Apart from contractions, other small changes were made, not many of them irritating. I look forward to the feature film version, and hope they don't muck about with the story too much.

I don't think Tolkien was too bothered that Lewis was an Anglican, though it did mean that they were officially not in communion with each other, the Anglican church having been excommunicated by the Pope some 500 years ago. I think he was more bothered that Lewis married a divorcee. Lewis claimed that the church was trying to have it both ways; in those days, the Anglican church would not sanctify a marriage involving a divorcee, but on that basis, Joy's first marriage was not valid, as her first husband had himself been a divorcee when she married him. If she was not married in the eyes of the church, then the church should have had no problems with her subsequent marriage to Lewis (Joy Davidman was also far too outspoken for Oxford's scholastic society, and gained no sympathy there).

If anyone wants another allegorical series to compare with the Narnia Chronicles (or for kids to latch on to), I would recommend Pangur Ban the White Cat, by Fay Sampson, where the Aslan/Christ character is a dolphin. The prequel Shape Shifter (compares with The Magician's Nephew) might be too complicated a story for younger readers.

[Narsil]

As a child I read and loved The Chronicles of Narnia. Recently I bought the boxed set for my daughter and wound up re-reading them when I went away for a trip for a week. I enjoyed them very much, although I couldn't bring myself to read The Last Battle again. I hated that one the first time and have no desire to read it again.

It's not in the same class as LOTR though but I'm hoping my daughter will read them and eventually work her way to Middle Earth. :)

[Barliman Butterbur]

...I find the Christian truths more starkly presented in LotR than in the Narnia books...

If you are referring to morals and ethics, and if I understand your meaning, I would say that what you refer to as Christian truths are in actuality the perennial wisdom found universally in all religions and humanistic philosophies.:)

Barley

[Eledhwen]

If you are referring to morals and ethics, and if I understand your meaning, I would say that what you refer to as Christian truths are in actuality the perennial wisdom found universally in all religions and humanistic philosophies.:)

BarleyHmm. Mercy and self-sacrifice are far from universal. There are also many storylines in LotR that are applicable to Christianity; but there are many in The Matrix too.

CS Lewis was much more openly evangelistic in his writing, using it as a tool for Christianity. Tolkien wrote a world to put his languages in. However, only those familiar with the Christian gospel (yet reject it) can take offence at Lewis' Narnia Chronicles, because they do not preach; they just offer a magical world where Good and Evil are personified, and everyone else chooses sides. Indeed, if the books did preach, I doubt they would have become the classics they are.

As a child I read and loved The Chronicles of Narnia. Recently I bought the boxed set for my daughter and wound up re-reading them when I went away for a trip for a week. I enjoyed them very much, although I couldn't bring myself to read The Last Battle again. I hated that one the first time and have no desire to read it again.

It's not in the same class as LOTR though but I'm hoping my daughter will read them and eventually work her way to Middle Earth. The Last Battle contains the most starkly evil images in the whole of the Narnia Chronicles. Also, there are unresolved miseries (the Dwarves). It also reveals much about Lewis' own interpretation of Christianity. I always thought it was quite a difficult story for children; probably more difficult than LotR.

[Barliman Butterbur]

Hmm. Mercy and self-sacrifice are far from universal.

They are certainly far from being universally practiced, but they appear to be universal in the sense that they are listed as important values in virtually every religion and humanistic philosophy.

Barley

[Eledhwen]

I bow to your greater knowledge! :)

[Narsil]

The Last Battle contains the most starkly evil images in the whole of the Narnia Chronicles. Also, there are unresolved miseries (the Dwarves). It also reveals much about Lewis' own interpretation of Christianity. I always thought it was quite a difficult story for children; probably more difficult than LotR.

LOTR has a much better conclusion IMO. I found The Last Battle to be "unsettling", to say the least. I was also rather young (around 14) when I read it. I guess I'm just has happy to have it all end with The Silver Chair and believe they all lived happily ever after. :D

[Barliman Butterbur]

CS Lewis WAS An Atheist [Past Tense]

By Annette Robe
Dec. 3, 2004

CS Lewis WAS an Atheist – for a time in his life, Lewis was indeed an atheist. During his teens and twenties to be exact.

You know I wish people could stick to the facts AND tell the entire story. (I refer to Amanda Baker’s article of December 2nd - CS Lewis was an Atheist):

Amanda Baker has displayed one email so I guess the gloves are off and I can show her original email – the one where she insinuates that I am not telling the truth (refer article In Defense of Harry Potter posted Nov 11th 2004) , and the others that followed. The difference here folks, is that I am not only going to show you her emails, but my own responses – to give you ALL the facts, so that I do not insult your intelligence – bear with me a moment, Readers, and I will show you the whole debate – not just the parts that may be slanted to show me in a favorable light.

Complete (and long!) article at http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/dec/article030.html

Barley

[Eledhwen]

Barley's link (above) leads to a website called 'useless knowledge', but for those on their own spiritual journey, the account of other wayfarers - especially those like Lewis, who are gifted in communication - is far from useless.

In CS Lewis' autobiographical book 'Surprised by Joy' (an unintentional prophetic pun - he later married a woman called Joy), he describes his conversion from atheism, through theism and on to Christianity. He also mentions theological discussions with JRRT, but I don't recollect either of them saying that JRRT's input was decisive in CS Lewis' decision to become a Christian; but the established churches in those days did not set much store on keeping scores like who led who to faith.

[Corvis]

I've only read the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and nothing else of C.S. Lewis. You can't blame me though, for I'm still pretty new to the enchanting world of fiction and fantasy, and the pioneer writers like Tolkien and Lewis. However, after seeing everyone's thoughts on all the books on this thread I'll surely keep reading the chronicles of Narnia.


Also after reading the Lord of the Rings, I think that Lewis's books deal more with religion than Tolkien's does. However, Tolkien's the Silmarrillion is another story. It sounds much like the bible with Eru and the creation of the Valar. Does anyone agree?

I've talked before about the making of the Chronicles of Narnia movies on the forum and have given some background information on it. So if anyone doesn't know here: it was filmed in New Zealand, and Weta Workshop has done the weapontry and armor for the armies of Narnia.

[ASLAN THE GREAT]

will the CON books were the frist books i ever read, and then after i got done with those my dad bother said to me ''will if you like the CON books maybe you will like this book and it was called the lord of the rings and that was when i was 5 or 7 i can't remember and sice then i can't put any of there books down......

so i guess you can sAY I'M A HARD CORE FAND OF BoTh of them

[Eledhwen]

Hello Corvis, and welcome. There are threads which discuss most of the things you have brought up. If you use the search facility I'm sure you will find some of them. You're right about CS Lewis writing more religiously than JRR Tolkien. He deliberately wrote stories that were meant to remind you of the Christian story (allegory). Tolkien, however, disliked allegory intensely, and when Lewis gave him the Narnia books to read, he didn't like them much because of that. Tolkien went right through the Lord of the Rings and edited out anything that looked anything like religion, because he thought such things, when deliberately inserted, ruin a good tale.