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Starflower
01-27-2005, 10:58 AM
Time yet again for another chapter discussion.


At the start of the chapter, we see the hobbits getting ready to leave on their adventure. Frodo was told by Gandalf to make for Bree, and to get there, the hobbits decide to cut through the Old Forest.
The very name of the place sounds ominous, and the hobbits' obvious reluctance to enter it makes the reader even more anxious as to what will happen.


'There!' said Merry. 'You have left the Shire, and are now outside, and
on the edge of the Old Forest.'
'Are the stories about it true?' asked Pippin.
'I don't know what stories you mean,' Merry answered. 'If you mean the
old bogey-stories Fatty's nurses used to tell him, about goblins and wolves
and things of that sort, I should say no. At any rate I don't believe them.
But the Forest _is_ queer. Everything in it is very much more alive, more
aware of what is going on, so to speak, than things are in the Shire. And the
trees do not like strangers. They watch you. They are usually content merely
to watch you, as long as daylight lasts, and don't do much. Occasionally the
most unfriendly ones may drop a branch, or stick a root out, or grasp at you
with a long trailer. But at night things can be most alarming, or so I am
told. I have only once or twice been in here after dark, and then only near
the hedge. I thought all the trees were whispering to each other, passing news and plots along in an unintelligible language; and the branches swayed and groped without any wind. They do say the trees do actually move, and can surround strangers and hem them in. In fact long ago they attacked the Hedge:they came and planted themselves right by it, and leaned over it. But the hobbits came and cut down hundreds of trees, and made a great bonfire in the Forest, and burned all the ground in a long strip east of the Hedge. After that the trees gave up the attack, but they became very unfriendly. There is still a wide bare space not far inside where the bonfire was made.'
'Is it only the trees that are dangerous?' asked Pippin.
'There are various queer things living deep in the Forest, and on the far
side,' said Merry, 'or at least I have heard so; but I have never seen any of
them. But something makes paths. Whenever one comes inside one finds open
tracks; but they seem to shift and change from time to time in a queer
fashion.

The hobbits wander through the Forest, and eventually they get lost.

The hobbits began to feel very hot. There were armies of flies of all
kinds buzzing round their ears, and the afternoon sun was burning on their
backs. At last they came suddenly into a thin shade; great grey branches
reached across the path. Each step forward became more reluctant than the
last. Sleepiness seemed to be creeping out of the ground and up their legs,
and falling softly out of the air upon their heads and eyes.
Frodo felt his chin go down and his head nod. Just in front of him Pippin
fell forward on to his knees. Frodo halted. 'It's no good,' he heard Merry
saying. 'Can't go another step without rest. Must have nap. It's cool under
the willows. Less flies!'
Frodo did not like the sound of this. 'Come on!' he cried. 'We can't have
a nap yet. We must get clear of the Forest first.' But the others were too far
gone to care. Beside them Sam stood yawning and blinking stupidly.
Suddenly Frodo himself felt sleep overwhelming him. His head swam. There
now seemed hardly a sound in the air. The flies had stopped buzzing. Only a
gentle noise on the edge of hearing, a soft fluttering as of a song half
whispered, seemed to stir in the boughs above. He lifted his heavy eyes and
saw leaning over him a huge willow-tree, old and hoary. Enormous it looked,
its sprawling branches going up like reaching arms with many long-fingered
hands, its knotted and twisted trunk gaping in wide fissures that creaked
faintly as the boughs moved. The leaves fluttering against the bright sky
dazzled him, and he toppled over, lying where he fell upon the grass.

Merry and Pippin are trapped by the Old Man Willow, and despite Frodo and Sam's brave efforts to free them, the situation seems hopeless.
Then, out of the Forest comes something completely unexpected:

soon there could be no doubt: someone was singing a song; a deep glad voice was singing carelessly and happily, but it was singing nonsense:
Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!

Half hopeful and half afraid of some new danger, Frodo and Sam now both
stood still. Suddenly out of a long string of nonsense-words (or so they
seemed) the voice rose up loud and clear and burst into this song:
Hey! Come merry dot! derry dol! My darling!
Light goes the weather-wind and the feathered starling.
Down along under Hill, shining in the sunlight,
Waiting on the doorstep for the cold starlight,
There my pretty lady is. River-woman's daughter,
Slender as the willow-wand, clearer than the water.
Old Tom Bombadil water-lilies bringing
Comes hopping home again. Can you hear him singing?
Hey! Come merry dol! deny dol! and merry-o,
Goldberry, Goldberry, merry yellow berry-o!
Poor old Willow-man, you tuck your roots away!
Tom's in a hurry now. Evening will follow day.
Tom's going home again water-lilies bringing.
Hey! Come derry dol! Can you hear me singing?

....then suddenly, hopping and dancing along the path, there appeared above the reeds an old battered hat with a tall crown and a long blue feather stuck in the band. With another hop and a bound there came into view a man, or so it seemed. At any rate he was too large and heavy for a hobbit, if not quite tall enough for one of the Big People, though he made noise enough for one, slumping along with great yellow boots on his thick legs, and charging through grass and rushes like a cow going down to drink. He had a blue coat and a long brown beard; his eyes were blue and bright, and his face was red as a ripe apple, but creased into a hundred wrinkles of laughter. In his hands
carried on a large leaf as on a tray a small pile of white water-lilies.

Tom rescues the poor batteres hobbits and takes them to his house.

Ingwë
01-29-2005, 03:35 PM
This chapter is very interesting. The hobbits decide to cut through the Old Forest because they want to go to Bree faster. The Nazguls are following them and they want to escape.
There is some dangerous trees in that forest and one of them catch the hobbit. Poor hobbit cannot escape from the tree. But Tom Bombadil hear them and help the hobbits. If he didn`t help them maybe the tree will kill the hobbits.

Kuduk
02-02-2005, 08:47 AM
With its rich descriptions of the forest, its simultaneous beauty and creepiness, the chapter is a great example of how Tolkien would have made a terrific travel writer. I'm struck by how he well he paints Middle-Earth using real world images. Whenever I walk in the woods and a breeze causes the trees to sway, creaking and leaves rustling, I can also almost hear them 'whispering' or 'laughing.'

I also like how this chapter acts as a harbinger of the Ents and Fangorn forest and always find it interesting that Old Man Willow swallows Merry and Pippin (but not Frodo and Sam) who are of course eventually 'taken in' and protected by Treebeard.

GuardianRanger
02-02-2005, 04:54 PM
While I agree with many of the comments posted earlier, I also found the chapter very "frustrating." Frustrating in that the hobbits were "driven" towards Old Man Willow and they couldn't change their path or direction. As a reader, and mentally being there, it would have driven me up a wall to not be able to travel in my intended direction and constantly being thwarted in my attempts to go where I wanted to go.

Eledhwen
02-17-2005, 10:39 AM
As a reader, and mentally being there, it would have driven me up a wall to not be able to travel in my intended direction and constantly being thwarted in my attempts to go where I wanted to go.I have been in that situation as a child - before I had the good sense to take to the hills with OS maps and compass. You see where you want to get to, but there's a gurt big Ghyll in the way, or an impenetrable tangle of gorse/hawthorn/nettles - you name it. You end up going a different direction, and another obstacle - a crag of rocks, a precipice, more thorns, drive you even further astray. It even happens in cities - they're called one-way systems and ring-roads. Of course, nowadays I don't go across country without my trusty Explorer map, but even that only tells you you're in a forest, and what type it is; it doesn't show brambles and thorns.

The Hobbits had all that to contend with, plus the influence of the Withywindle itself and the malice of the trees - and ponies! I can't think of many off-track walks that would be a doddle with a pony - especially through hilly woods.

Narsil
02-22-2005, 01:12 AM
With its rich descriptions of the forest, its simultaneous beauty and creepiness, the chapter is a great example of how Tolkien would have made a terrific travel writer. I'm struck by how he well he paints Middle-Earth using real world images.

Tolkien IS a great travel writer! I've read a lot of travel books and LOTR (especially FOTR) reads the same. I love reading Tolkien's descriptions of Middle Earth. You really feel as if you are there yourself. It's one of the things I love about the book. What's ironic is that Tolkien himself didn't travel much. The man just had an incredible imagination, not to mention a way with words. ;)

I think this chapter does a lot to add to the atmosphere of danger that the Hobbits are in. You, like the Hobbits, are constantly on an emotional rollercoaster. One one hand they are curious, elated and excited about their new adventures but there's also this sense of fear and dread. Seems it all comes together very well in this chapter.

It is interesting how this is almost a precursor to Merry and Pippin being in Fangorn Forest and meeting Treebeard. One could almost call it foreshadowing. :)

Snaga
02-24-2005, 12:33 AM
The curious thing about the Old Forest chapter, and the subsequent time in the house of Tom Bombadil is that it is more or less a diversion from the plot of Lord of the Rings.

This episode is very much akin to the episode with the trolls in the Hobbit. It is a preliminary adventure, fairly arbitary in nature, when the safety of the Shire is left, but the 'real enemy' is not at hand. In deed, Tolkien later wrote that he just wanted 'an adventure' for the Hobbits to experience. You could take the parallel further, and if you include the Barrow Downs episode in this sequence, then both this and the troll adventure conclude with the acquisition of notable weapons: Sting in the case of Bilbo, whereas Merry gets the sword that eventually slays the Witch King.

Tom Bombadil is of course a famously incongruous character, inserted from outside the eventual scheme of Middle Earth. Tolkien created him years before the writing of Lord of the Rings, and placed him in the story fairly arbitarily. His role as saviour in this chapter is then later used to emphasise Frodo and Sam's aloneness - I can't now recall when Sam wishes that Tom was around to deal with their problems.

The final thing that is notable is the ambivalence of nature. In this chapter it is dark and threatening, which contrasts with what we expect and mostly experience in Tolkiens books. However Tolkien often uses this device: the wolves, the birds of ill-omen, the snowstorm on Caradhras. In many cases this is nature twisted or used by the Enemy for its own purpose. In the case of Old Man Willow, his malice is more uncertain in origin. Indeed, Old Man Willow is probably as big an enigma as Tom Bombadil. He seems too powerful for an Ent or a Huorn - so what is he? Is he a maia spirit? And why does he hate things that go on two legs?

grendel
02-24-2005, 04:59 PM
I can't now recall when Sam wishes that Tom was around to deal with their problems.

Ah! I can answer that! :) I just read that part of The Two Towers... it's where Sam and Frodo are trying to get through the tunnel and Shelob's lair... he draws his sword, and thinks of the barrow and Tom.

Eledhwen
02-24-2005, 10:07 PM
Excellent points, Snaga; and thanks to grendel, who has saved me either loss of sleep or research.

I like the inclusion of an adventure for all four hobbits together, before meeting any of the rest of the fellowship. Frodo is the one whose dowty spirit shows in this chapter. Later, the others, one after another, show what hobbits are really made of. I'd love to know what the brooch thing was all about, though. It's been discussed in its own thread before, but we're really none the wiser, unless more manuscripts turn up to enlighten us.

Firawyn
02-25-2005, 12:28 AM
I really like this chapter. The whole idea of the trees being "alive" in my mind forshadows Merry and Pippin meeting with Treebeard in Fangorn Forest. They go in one side, afriad and running from enemies, and then meet up with a newfound friend, and go out the other side in a relitivly good mood! *grin*

I've heard people say that Tolkien really didn't plan out the whole thing, he just wrote what he thought, so do you think that this forshadowing was done on purpose??

Does anyone else see this?

Snaga
02-26-2005, 01:14 AM
Thanks Grendel. I find it reassuring sometimes when I can't remember details like that!:p

Firawyn - you are right: Tolkien didn't have all this planned out. In fact, this chapter had been written in more or less its final version before Tolkien had mapped out that M&P would end up in Fangorn. In fact, Tolkien hadn't yet distinguished Ents from Trolls, and so didn't know that the Ents would be a force for good. That in itself makes the sinister Old Man Willow quite interesting.

grendel
02-26-2005, 09:38 PM
Glad to have been of service!! :D

I spend so much time being totally in awe of the depth of knowledge of so many members here.... it's a real thrill to be able to contribute something.

But let me repeat... I had literally been reading that chapter two days before seeing your statement, Snaga... no great feat of recall here!

Firawyn
02-26-2005, 09:52 PM
lol, well I'm glad I can remember something! I've dug so deep into Tolkien and Lewis that I often get them mixed up.

Helcaraxë
04-30-2005, 02:51 PM
I agree with the comments made by Narsil. One of the things that makes Middle Earth so grand but yet so real, credible, and familiar, is detail and metaphor. This chapter has some very striking metaphors, which have been mentioned before, but is also excellent, detailed writing, which is why we can so easily imagine ourselves there.

Eledhwen
05-02-2005, 11:32 PM
Narsil also mentions that The Old Forest foreshadows Merry and Pippin's adventures in Fangorn Forest. I noted that the two hobbits most violently attacked by the forest, in the person of Old Man Willow, are the same two who happen upon the Shepherd of the Trees, precipitating a much more purposeful anger in the trees that that of OMW. After The Old Forest, I remember being not a little astonished if either Merry or Pippin leant against a tree trunk to rest.

Ravenna
05-15-2005, 09:15 PM
I think too that the fact that the Hobbits have no real control over their eventual direction has a wider echo in the rest of the tale.

Here, for the first time they are totally unable to follow their own path, being 'pushed' in the direction which the trees want them to go. Surely this also is what happens to them in general throughout the book, none of them really wished to go to Mordor, Gondor or anywhere else except home, but outside forces beyond their power to control dictate their eventual destination no matter how they try to avoid it.

The echoes of Fangorn are there too, but for me there is also an echo of The Hobbit, where the Dwarves and Bilbo are lost in Mirkwood, and, whilst they are not necessarily forced off route, they too are hopelessly lost and unable to get to their intended destination, lost in a dark and malicious forest.

Eledhwen
05-18-2005, 11:23 PM
They always had the choice of abandoning their quest - of choosing to save their own skins and let the rest of Middle-earth look to itself. The very decision to enter The Old Forest was one that made Fredegar Bolger blanch with fear.

There is a subtle change in charismatic leadership . From when Merry turns up at the ferry until they are well into the forest, he is dictating events and not Frodo. I haven't got my book in front of me, but maybe it remains so until the intervention of Old Man Willow, at which point Tom Bombadil takes charge.

Meselyn
04-09-2007, 03:22 AM
I get the feeling throughout this chapter that there's a sense of hopelessness as they travel throughout and once they get to Tom Bombadils house that time sort of stops but the hopelessness returns the instant they leave.

Starbrow
04-16-2007, 04:40 AM
IMO I wouldn't say that they felt hopeless after they leave Bombadil. They start with high hopes, but quickly run into disaster. Then hope is restored for a bit, then trouble starts again. It's quite a cycle they have going in Book 1.

Starflower
08-31-2007, 11:29 AM
There is a subtle change in charismatic leadership . From when Merry turns up at the ferry until they are well into the forest, he is dictating events and not Frodo.

Interesting also how the other hobbits seem almost terrified at the thought of entering the Forest whereas Merry seems almost blase about the while thing
He spoke cheerfully, and if he felt any great anxiety, he did not show it. The others did not answer. They were depressed.

It's a tense chapter, full of anticipation and dread, the hobbits are afraid of the unknown ahead.