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Ingwë
05-16-2005, 08:29 PM
The sun was sinking behind the mountains, and the shadows were deepening in the woods, when they went on again. Their paths now went into thickets where the dusk had already gathered. Night came beneath the trees as they walked, and the Elves uncovered their silver lamps.

Suddenly they came out into the open again and found themselves under a pale evening sky pricked by a few early stars. There was a wide treeless space before them, running in a great circle and bending away on either hand. Beyond it was a deep fosse lost in soft shadow, but the grass upon its brink was green, as if it glowed still in memory of the sun that had gone. Upon the further side there rose to a great height a green wall encircling a green hill thronged with mallorn-trees taller than any they had yet seen in all the land. Their height could not be guessed, but they stood up in the twilight like living towers. In their, many-tiered branches and amid their ever-moving leaves countless lights were gleaming, green and gold and silver. This is the beginning of that great chapter - a description of the Golden forest. This chapter is very interesting and though it is not long I decided to make 2 thread for it.
The Company arrived in Caras Galadhon 'where dwell the Lord Celeborn and Galadriel the Lady of Lorien. Aragorn told them about the death of Gandalf the Grey.



But had I known that the Dwarves had stirred up this evil in Moria again, l would have forbidden you to pass the northern borders, you and all that went with you.



'Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone.'
1.Why do you think Celeborn is so rude and why Galadriel is so polite? She doesn't hate the Dwarves

I will not give you counsel, saying do this, or do that. For not in doing or contriving, nor in choosing between this course and another, can I avail; but only in knowing what was and is, and in part also what shall be. But this I will say to you: your Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while all the Company is true.'

And with that word she held them with her eyes, and in silence looked searchingly at each of them in turn. None save Legolas and Aragorn could long endure her glance. Sam quickly blushed and hung his head.2.Do you think that she wanted to led toward the southern slopes of the hill where is the Mrror of Galadriel since that moment. What is the power of her look and what role does it play? A test? But what did she test? Why did Aragorn and Legolas endured her glance? Why did the hobbits connot endure though their spirits are clean?


All of them, it seemed, had fared alike: each had felt that he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lay ahead, and something that he greatly desired: clear before his mind it lay, and to get it he had only to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest and the war against Sauron to others.3.What did she tried to see?



'To me it seemed exceedingly strange,' said Boromir. `Maybe it was only a test, and she thought to read our thoughts for her own good purpose; but almost I should have said that she was tempting us, and offering what she pretended to have the power to give. It need not be said that I refused to listen. The Men of Minas Tirith are true to their word.
Maybe Boromir began defending himself but the Lady is stronger. 4.What did she offer to Boromir? Is that the moment when he realised he wants the One Ring? And if it has been seen by Galadriel why didn't she stop him?


`Well, have a care! ' said Boromir. `I do not feel too sure of this Elvish Lady and her purposes.' 5.Did Aragorn realised that Boromir want to take the Ring?

When evening in the Shire was grey
his footsteps on the Hill were heard;
before the dawn he went away
on journey long without a word.

From Wilderland to Western shore,
from northern waste to southern hill,
through dragon-lair and hidden door
and darkling woods he walked at will.

With Dwarf and Hobbit, Elves and Men,
with mortal and immortal folk,
with bird on bough and beast in den,
in their own secret tongues he spoke.

A deadly sword, a healing hand,
a back that bent beneath its load;
a trumpet-voice, a burning brand,
a weary pilgrim on the road.

A lord of wisdom throned he sat,
swift in anger, quick to laugh;
an old man in a battered hat
who leaned upon a thorny staff.

He stood upon the bridge alone
and Fire and Shadow both defied;
his staff was broken on the stone,
in Khazad-dûm his wisdom died.The motive for writing this song is very interesting.
6. Is there any significance at the moment when somebody writes a song? Frodo hadn't written anything before he left the Shire but now he is writing. Why?




`What do you think of Elves now, Sam? ' he said. `I asked you the same question once before-it seems a very long while ago; but you have seen more of them since then.'
'I have indeed! ' said Sam. 'And I reckon there's Elves and Elves. They're all elvish enough, but they're not all the same. Now these folk aren't wanderers or homeless, and seem a bit nearer to the likes of us: they seem to belong here, more even than Hobbits do in the Shire. Whether they've made the land, or the land's made them, it's hard to say, if you take my meaning. It's wonderfully quiet here. Nothing seems to be going on, and nobody seems to want it to

‘They seem a bit above my likes and dislikes, so to speak,’ answered Sam slowly. ‘It don’t seem to matter what I think about them. They are quite different from what I expected - so old and young, and so gay and sad, as it were.’
7. And what do you think about the elves now?

Inderjit S
05-16-2005, 09:37 PM
1.Why do you think Celeborn is so rude and why Galadriel is so polite? She doesn't hate the Dwarves

Celeborn had an inherent dislike for Dwarves because they sacked the realm of his kinsman and his people, Doriath.

Galadriel has a close affinity with Dwarves because (like most the Ñoldor) she was close to Aulë, the creator of the Dwarves. She saw them as good, loyal soldiers, not uncouth and treacherous as many Elves saw them. She had a very good relationship with the Dwarves of Khazad-Dûm in the Second Age-they even let her in!

2.Do you think that she wanted to led toward the southern slopes of the hill where is the Mrror of Galadriel since that moment. What is the power of her look and what role does it play? A test? But what did she test? Why did Aragorn and Legolas endured her glance? Why did the hobbits connot endure though their spirits are clean?

I guess she tempted Aragorn with Arwen, perhaps for him to quit the quest and for him to live with Arwen, or for him and Arwen to be happy forever. IO suspect she tempted Legolas with Aman-a passage to Aman so long as he abandoned the quest and she probably offered the hobbits a way back to the Shire.

3.What did she tried to see?

The strength of character of the individuals.

4.What did she offer to Boromir? Is that the moment when he realised he wants the One Ring? And if it has been seen by Galadriel why didn't she stop him?

Boromir, like Denethor and perhaps many others, saw the ring as a great weapon and the quest as folly. I doubt the Council ever truly convinced him he was wrong.

Why didn't she stop him? Firstly she didn't know for sure-she feared for him as Gandalf says. And secondly she had no right to stop him. Tolkien was an anarchist, and each character has his own free will, makes his own decisions-Galadriel says so-she was a counsellor; she could council and couldn't force people to do things against their will even if it was for the greater good. Notice how Gandalf allows several characters to make their own decisions even if he thinks he knows better.

Also, even if she knew what would happen then I doubt she would have stopped it, for things happen as they happen for a reason-without Boromir's betrayal the whole quest would have failed.

5.Did Aragorn realised that Boromir want to take the Ring?

I doubt it. He wasn't really paying attention to him. :D Frodo has an inkling though.

And what do you think about the elves now?

The same as Sam. :D

Ingwë
05-17-2005, 08:28 PM
Thank you, Inderjit S!

Let me answer my own questions ;)

1.Why do you think Celeborn is so rude and why Galadriel is so polite? She doesn't hate the Dwarves.
Celeborn hates the Dwarves but the Dwarves of Moria (whose inheritant is Gimli) didn't attack Doriath. He is Wise but not enough. My opinion is that he mustn't hate all the Dwarves for the Dwarves who attacked Doriath were killed.
I agree with you abot Galadriel. The Naugrim are Children of Aule and Galadriel is of the Nolrod.



2.Do you think that she wanted to led toward the southern slopes of the hill where is the Mirror of Galadriel since that moment. What is the power of her look and what role does it play? A test? But what did she test? Why did Aragorn and Legolas endured her glance? Why did the hobbits connot endure though their spirits are clean?
I think she wanted to led Frodo to the Mirror long before they talked. She knew that the Company will pass through Lorien. She is a Nolrod, she was born in Valinor when the Two Trees grew there. She is very powerful and maybe her Ring makes her more powerful. I think she tested if they will endure the power of the One Ring because it is too near them. But she herself had a test but about that moment in the next thread :) . Aragorn is a Numenorean and elf through Elros. Legolas too. But maybe she didn't want to test them because she know they will never give up.


3.What did she tried to see?
She tried to see what they think of their purpose after the death of their leader Gandalf the Grey. She tried to see if they are powerful enough :)


4.What did she offer to Boromir? Is that the moment when he realised he wants the One Ring? And if it has been seen by Galadriel why didn't she stop him?
She offered Boromir the One Ring because it is what he wanted. I think that she saw that moment. Boromir wanted the One Ring since the Council of Elrond. But he can't endure the power of the Lady. Maybe she didn't stop him because the thought that he will remain with the Company and he is enough powerful to endure the power of the Ring.


5.Did Aragorn realised that Boromir want to take the Ring?
Yes, he did. And he became aware of him but not enough. Boromir show us that he wants the Ring in the Council of Elrond but other didn't do anything because he himself didn't know what he wants.


6. Is there any significance at the moment when somebody writes a song? Frodo hadn't written anything before he left the Shire but now he is writing. Why?
Muse :D


7. And what do you think about the elves now?
Hehe. Me too. :)

Thorondor_
05-17-2005, 09:53 PM
1.Why do you think Celeborn is so rude and why Galadriel is so polite? She doesn't hate the Dwarves.
Celeborn was fearing the balrog following the company.
2.Do you think that she wanted to led toward the southern slopes of the hill where is the Mirror of Galadriel since that moment. What is the power of her look and what role does it play? A test? But what did she test? Why did Aragorn and Legolas endured her glance? Why did the hobbits connot endure though their spirits are clean?
She has the power of the mirror - be it the objective one, or the subjective one, inside any of us - and how many have the courage at any time to look inside this inner mirror? I guess Aragorn and Legolas endured her glance because their higher nature AND their innocence were manifest in them. The hobbit's higher nature wasn't necessarly manifest in them.
3.What did she tried to see?
I think she plays an objective role, her part in the story - no subjective motivation here.
6. Is there any significance at the moment when somebody writes a song? Frodo hadn't written anything before he left the Shire but now he is writing. Why?
In my opinion also, LotR is actually the story of Frodo's development. He writing a poem is a testimony to his evolution towards the maturity of the spirit and of his creative powers.

Ravenna
04-26-2006, 10:49 PM
1/ Apart from the inherent dislike which Celeborn has for the Dwarven race. He is not so wise or far seeing as Galadriel, after all, she is a High Elf born (I think) in Valinor, but he is of a lesser race.

2/ Aragorn and Legolas also have the advantage of a much greater age and maturity than any of the others, maybe they were more self aware and aware of exactly what lay ahead.

3/ I think she was trying to read the hearts of the company rather than their minds, to judge whether they had the strength and resolve to see the matter to the end. Trying to see what they really desired and as she says later to Frodo, 'testing them' by offering a clear choice between what they were heading to and what they wanted.

4/ I don't think that she offered Boromir the Ring directly, that would surely have been counter-productive, creating potential discord within the company. I would say it was more in the nature of showing himself as the saviour of Gondor, defeating Sauron without actually stating that this weapon was the Ring.

5/ Aragorn is aware at this point that Boromir thinks the Ring should be used not destroyed, but I don't think at this stage he knows how far Boromir has fallen to the lure of the Ring. It is quite possible that Boromir himself is not consciously aware of this, apart from a growing obsession with the Ring.

6/ Gandalf's death is a huge emotional blow to the whole company. Often stress and trauma can bring forth great creativity (look at the poetry that arose from WWI) Frodo felt the need to express his feelings and they came out in the form of a song at the prompting of Sam and the Elven song they heard.