Things I Liked Despite Myself

[Mithiril]

For any Tolkien purist like me, the idea of somebody messing with the best book ever written seems like sacrilege. As I lurked here before the movie came out and read all of the rumors I was filled with even more dread and was prepared to hate it. Sure enough, the first time I watched it, I must have said "That's not how it happened" often enough to drive the people around me crazy. But on subsequent viewings, I have had to admit to heresy -- there are some things that I cannot deny worked very well.

The awful scenes/changes/omissions remain unforgiveable, but here is a list, for what it's worth, of things I liked anyway:

1. Isildur's smirk
2. The Shire -- beautiful!!
3. Bucklebury Ferry scene -- tension/terror/excitement
4. Elijah Wood as Frodo. Not exactly who I pictured, but I find he brings a youthful innocence to the character. And knowing what we do about what happens to him, it almost makes it seem more tragic. When he's on the screen, I can't keep my eyes from him. Great performance!
5. Frodo's reaction to Gimli's attempt to smash the Ring
6. The moment Frodo says "I will take the Ring" -- chills every time!
7. Boromir teaching the hobbits sword fighting
8. The "give the Ring to Frodo" scene before Caradhras
9. The whole mines of Moria scene - really helped fill in some mental pictures I couldn't get from reading
10. Mourning outside Moria -- esp. that one glance at Frodo says it all: utter grief and sorrow
11. The Argonath - stunning imagery!
12. Frodo's indecision and then determination before getting in the boat at the end.

There, I've confessed and I feel better already!

[chrome_rocknave]

Hey there Mithiril,
I also enjoyed the part when Frodo was despairing outside or Moria! I think that his one glance towards the camera really told everything that he was feeling :( And knowing what will happen to Frodo in the following books, I agree that it just makes it that much more sad! Elijah Wood makes a great Frodo (but I don't like his "pain" look) :D

[tookish-girl]

Hey, don't feel like you must confess, like it's a bad thing to like the book and the movie, I liked Pippin's added line about the pint, should go down in movie history!
The grieving scene outside Moria is gutting, seeing Pip holding onto Merry and then the close up on Frodo gets you right inside. Brilliant acting for everyone. I thought they were all so good, especially the Americans with the English accents, as most Americans are so bad at them, it's painful and end up sounding like **** Van Dyke in Mary Poppins! Ouch!
Liked the party scene and the introduction of Rosie, especially when Frodo virtually chucks Sam at her to get him to dance with him. Like Bilbo telling the hobbity-children about the trolls too, sweet!

[chrome_rocknave]

I know, I thought I would cry when I saw Pippin holding onto Merry outside of Moria. I just thought that Pippin is probably blaming himself from Gandalf's "death" and must feel a tremendous weight of guilt!

[Mithiril]

I thought that might be some of Frodo's emotion as well: guilt, because Gandalf left the choice of their route to the Ringbearer and he chose Moria.

The pint line was pretty funny!

[chrome_rocknave]

Yes, and Frodo would be carrying this guilt all the way to Mt. Doom because he doesn't see Gandalf again....
Poor Frodo :(

[Silme]

Place I really liked was Isengard, espcially Orthanc there - they were *just* like I've always pictured them in my mind!! Moria was awesome, too, and Rivendell..... Also Argonath. Lots of great things in the movie, despite the changes.

[mandy_pal]

one of the most scary moment has GOT to be the boat scene, me and my friends were screaming "Go, go, go frodo!" right there in the cinema and no one even bothered to tell us off cos everyone was sitting on the edge of their seats! after the movie many people went right back into the line and bought another ticket for the next screening...no kidding, i talked to at least six of them! The saddest part is when Boromir kept on fighting even when he has got three arrows in his chest! I forgave him in the end (in which i never did when i read the book)...hehe

[Matiage]

Mithiril stated:

>I must have said "That's not how it happened" often enough to drive the people around me crazy...<

The ironic thing is that NONE of this happened. The screenplay is an adaptation of a fictional book; the book was an adaptation of Nordic and Finnish edas and mythos; but none of it was ever real.

I do get your point though. At least it wasn't as bad as Starship Troopers where the whole story was changed and the film was turned into a skin flick for sex deprived adolescents.

Matiage

[Matiage]

Well, we will both be hit in the head with a well rotted lamb's leg for wandering off topic, but the main theme of Starship Troopers was a psudo-fascist viewpoint that reflected the author's experience with two World Wars in his lifetime.

The Troopers in the book were certainly not gung-ho little kids. They also were TROOPERS -- jump troopers in powered armor.

How many people with names like Juan Rico, and live in Argentina, look like Casper the friendly euroblonde?

Dizzy was a guy, Rico's father learned what the universe was all about (great chapter in the book), and the whole politics of the book was made into a mummer's farce.

If P.J. had made Legolas a woman and had Frodo bag her in the woods, I'm sure most of you here would not think kindly of it. Likewise, if the movie had added a game of futball at the shire to show off how the main characters could be jocks, it would have been quite a waste of time.

I can hardly express my frustration with the screen adaptations of both Starship Troopers and Dune as well. So little time was available, and so much waste was added in spite of the original material lost. The stories gained the "big screen", but they lost the "big picture."

Let us be grateful that FotR did not stray so far from the path as to be just a shell of the original story.

Matiage


P.S. Don Johnson and Tippy Hedron should have finished what they started. How can I get in on an experiment like that?

[Matiage]

NPW? Nit Picking Whiner?

No, that is going too far. Starship Troopers is likely my favorite science fiction book of all time. I teach history and political theory, so having this great work be shamed on the big screen was a major disservice to the author.

Let me put it this way; if the movie had been named Star Command and had not been adapted from Starship Troopers, I would have been happy enough to have spent my cash on it.

There are those who feel the same about The Fellowship Of The Ring, but there is a huge difference in changing a few things and distorting the major premise of the original work.

[Obbit Trifill]

It's nice to hear words like your's, coming from the mouth of a purista who is not so close-minded that he could not enjoy the film...and admit it.

I have seen it only once, so far. In the days that followed, I did not feel a nagging urge to see it again, immediately, like I have for some movies. But now, a few days later, there is this nagging feeling that I want to see it, again, need to see it, again, moving toward MUST see it, again!

The scenes of the shire were among my favorite, too.

[Mithiril]

Obbit Triffil,
I find myself having that same reaction at least once a week....I see the movie, say "there, I have it out of my system now" and then a little while goes by and I start thinking, well, maybe just one more time....thanks for your post.

BTW Matiage: I may enjoy the books and the movie and have a good time discussing them here, I very *rarely* depart from reality so far that I actually think these things really happened. I thought it was safe to assume that most people here would accept that we may be debating/going over the book/movie but still have a firm grasp on the concept that we are discussing a great work of fiction and my reality remains very real. Honest!



:)

[Loiosh]

Let me see if understand this...

Fellowship was a blasphemous misrepresentation but Starship Troopers only deviated slightly from the book?

Um, wow. Read the book again and then watch the movie. If it hadn't been called Starship Troopers I would have had no idea that it was in fact even based on the book, character names not withstanding.

[bunnywhippit]

I have to say, i'm afraid i committed the crime of never reading LOTR before seeing the film. I'd read The Hobbit and always thought, "now i must read LOTR". After seeing the film, i've finally started reading and honest to goodness, i've become fairly obsessed.

Obbit Trifill, Mithiril, i know exactly what you're talking about, after seeing the film i wasn't sure if i'd go see it again, but it really does nag and nag for a second.. third.. as many as possible viewings. ;) It's one of the most beautiful, heartbraking yet hopeful (for want of a better word) film i've seen - i'm already planning my trip to NZ. Hehe. Anyway, the wounded hero essence of Frodo has truly captured me and although yes, it's truly different from the book, i can easily accept both of them for they are magnificent in their own ways. Just had to get that out.

Anyway, back on topic. I have to agree with points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 of what you liked Mithiril. Those are things that have REALLY stuck with me, and i keep going over and over them. I also loved Gandalf's hat, it has to be said. That was quite something. :D

I'm trying to think of other moments i loved. Bilbo's face change. That was pretty frightening. Gandalf whispering to the moth (was it a moth?) - i just thought that small scene seemed to have such feeling. And Frodo & Arwen being chased by the Ringwraiths. That has really been on my mind today for some unknown reason. Oh, there is so much more, but i can't remember half of it. Maybe i should go see the film again.... ;)

[Bill the Pony]

Something I only noticed in the second viewing:
Legolas walking on top of the snow, and the rest of the company toiling through it.

And not in the book, but I still liked it: the guard at Bree first opening the top window, and then the bottom one to find the hobbits.

[bunnywhippit]

Bill, i noticed that Legolas/snow part as well! I'd forgotton about that though, and i really loved that part! Ooh.. sometimes it's the small things that count. ;)

And the guard at the gate. Usually something like that, i would consider a bit naff, but it really seemed to work well, and was pretty amusing i thought. :)

[Loiosh]

Harrad, not sure where we crossed wires here. I'm new to this board, but any purist who denounces Fellowship could not possibly say that Starship Troopers was faithful to the book without losing all credibility.

I enjoyed Starship Troopers, both the film and the book, but for entirely different reasons. They were radically dissimilar, the only thing they held in common was the fact there were big bugs.

I've seen people on this board foam at the mouth at the changes in Fellowship, I shudder to think how they would feel if they applied even a small percentage of that scrutiny to ST.

It isn't a fair comparison, though. Lord of the Rings created an unparralleled world of imagination, and has inspired a loyalty and affection that staggers the heart and soul. Starship Troopers, while remaining a classic of speculative fiction, pales beside the fan base of the Lord of the Rings.

[lilhobo]

yeah, but that is also the disadvantage of LOTR, many people know that story already, so where can the movie bring as suprises???

1. arwen love story
2. Saruman
3. landscape

Problem for TTT is that without Arwen it will be seen as just another mindless action flick in the vein of Arnie's , Mel's and Bruce's

[Matiage]

Mithiril,

OK ... sometimes people actually believe the events of the books had taken place in some far away land, or they often act like they believe it. ;)

The fact that there were some changes that may be set aside and understood is what allows me to have faith in the adaptation of The Lord Of The Rings as a whole.

As I have stated: Verhooven made Starship Troopers into a farce of the original story and the DeLaurentis-Lynch version of Dune, while staying much closer to the book, was done in such way as to make it more campy than even Flash Gordon.

I always expect changes in screenplay adaptations, but the when, where, and how can really be important. What your opinion states is that the changes, while valid points of attack for nitpickers, are not premise altering.

Harad,

Yes, I have two copies of the Avalon Hill game of Starship Troopers. Although the game rules did change a few things, it actually adds to the military interpretation of the conflicts at hand. The board game makes no attempt to be more than a series of military scenarios loosely based on the ST universe.

On a ten scale, I would rate The Fellowship of the Ring an eight on faithfulness to the book, while I would rate Starship Troopers a three. Harry Potter would likely get a nine from what my wife says of it, and A Bridge Too Far would certainly receive a ten.

Ah, but even in A Bridge Too Far, there were a few examples of two historical figures combined into one. With the twenty odd major players in the Market Garden assault, it was necessary in those few instances to combine minor characters without any change of premise.

We must ask ourselves, are Arwen and the other characters that have been altered or combined so major of characters that their change alters the premise of the original work, or do the changes actually make sense in the adaptation of the books.

It is of my opinion that making Arwen a combination of those in the book will enhance the character in the movie without causing undue trauma to the major themes and premices of The Lord Of The Rings.

Now, who has one of those pints, because we don't have them back at the Shire.

Matiage

[lilhobo]

are you kidding me??? ST is one mindless shooting the CG bugs **** a la phantom Menace


Heinlein is to Sci Fi what JRR is to fantasy, goddammed it

[Matiage]

Lilhobo,

I agree. Don't mess with the master.

[Matiage]

Harad,

THAT whole political theme was mishandled for one. The token thoughts given to the whole premise of WHY veterans should have franchise made it a farce.

What other major theme? Maybe that, as the title suggests, these guys were actually TROOPERS. Spaceborne troopers with powered armor, mini nukes, and more man-powered devastation capability than a whole 20th Century brigade.

The gung-ho tatoo scene, the Rico quits over a bad command, father dies in Buenos Aires instead of figures out what the book is all about, and the brain sucking Brain bugs are just a few examples of how the screenplay writer had no clue about why the power of the subtile thoughts about honor and politics made Starship Troopers into a classic.

[Loiosh]

Harad,

Does every one of your posts have to be a flame?

Try making your points without insulting people, you'll be more convincing. Just because people don't agree with you, that doesn't make them your enemy...

Movies that I felt were not faithful to the original books:

Starship Troopers
Dune

Movies I felt were very faithful to the books:

Fellowship of the Ring
Mother Night

My opinion. Not an attack on you. Please attempt to relax.

Loiosh

[Loiosh]

Heh, Harad, you're too much.

1) I never specifically said I was talking about you when I said purists would lose all credibility.

2) My "butting in" was suggesting that the two of you take it out of the schoolground and deal with whatever issues you had using private mesages instead of flaming each other back and forth in a public place, which is pointless and only serves to lessen this board.

This is my last public post to you, if you have issues you need to resolve send me a pm, or if it's important to your ego to get in the last word publicly feel free.

Loiosh

[mickyplums]

Whomsoever began this thread, hats off. I am in agreement with almost all your points.

Harad, are you off offending people again? You don't even understand the Lord of the Rings I mean how can you, you probably haven't even seen a real castle before. A necessary evil of coming from such a great country-absence of culture, still there's always McDonalds, maybe they give out mini castles in Happy Meals.

[Jamesy]

OOOh! woo us with that Yankee charm.

You can tell he is really mad because he spelled 'moron' in full.

Reread that post and imagine him, hand on hip, waggling his finger in the air in a fit of democracitically-restrained remonstration.

[Mithiril]

Thanks for the compliment! I was beginning to regret ever beginning it, since it has degenerated into a cesspool of insults and general unkindness.



Anyway, saw the movie again last night and still like what I like and don't like what I never have.

Actually, I think I like the music more this time...know that's not a universally accepted opinion, but oh well.

[Matiage]

Mithiril,

Naw, it's been a good thread overall. My original post was at first a sarcastic joke (I knew you didn't actually believe the books were history) and then a note stating that Fellowship Of The Ring did a much better job at being faithful to the main premises of the book than Starship Troopers had.

Harad belives otherwise, and that is certainly valid, so we disagree. He has come off a little condescending, but that's just his style.

There will always be some of us who like a little more science and a little less fiction in our science fiction.

I think the differences between Harad and I come from my view of the book as a political document encased in a futuristic war story and his view as a bug hunting war story first and foremost.

As I stated earlier, if that's all it was, then why did Verhooven even bother to get the rights to the book and not just call it Star Command, as the movie is closer to Galaxina than it is to Starship Troopers in book form.

If one wants an example of what could have happened to Fellowship Of The Ring if it had been Verhoovenized like Starship Troopers was, just imagine the movie Dungeons & Dragons with a nice little full nudity sex scene somewhere within it.

I am glad you liked the screen version of FOTR dispite the small changes made while adapting the work.

Matiage

[Loiosh]

Harad,

This friend of yours, the one you have so much respect for, has nothing to say about how faithful/unfaithful ST was to the book, which is the only reason it was ever mentioned in the first place.

As for endowing the movie with cultural and political properties, I don't think so. The characters were two dimensional, stereotypical archetypes who were never explored in any great depth. It was fun, had great effects, but in no way stands up to the original text. It was a sendup, to be sure... Not a political statement.

Just my opinion.

Loiosh

[tookish-girl]

Hello everyone! Is everybody happy?!:)
Good! Well, I rather like the bit where Gandalf says about Bilbo's past adventures "If you are refering to the incident with the dragon -I was barely involved."

Never seen Starship Troopers, can't comment on the rest of this fracas.

[Mithiril]

Thanks Tookish Girl, for trying to keep things on track!
I like the bit too, where Bilbo is telling the little hobbits about the trolls...they are both cute ways of making references to The Hobbit, tying it all together.

(Glad I'm not the only one who hasn't an opinion about Starship Troopers):)

[Chymaera]

There are a couple of things that I noticed in the Movie.

Boromir was wearing a black leather wrist guard that had the white tree on it. The Device of the Kingdom of Gondor.

The Uruk-hai was wearing war paint on his face that looked like a white hand.

Two subtle details that helped flesh out the movie for me :)

Plus when Gandalf bumps is head at Bag-End (I don't even want to think of all the CGI going on in that movie to show Men, Elves, Hobbits, and Drarves at their obvious height difference)

[Mithiril]

And someone pointed out on one of the other threads that in the scene where Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn are discussing pursuing Frodo or Pippin and Merry, Aragorn is actually putting those wristguards on...I hadn't noticed it myself but the next time I saw it I did pay attention and I believe it's true. Another subtle touch.

[Loiosh]

Chymaera,

Thanks for giving me an excuse to go see it again, that's awesome :)

[Lindir]

And did you notice the stone-trolls the hobbits and Strider were resting bebeath after the attack on Weathertop? Subtle.

[Loiosh]

Yeppers, that and the fact Legolas changed ammunition three times in the film, corresponding with the times he changed it in the book :)

[Chymaera]

OK :) I am so glad that I could contribute.

Here is my plan of action at this point.

I will hold off for at least a month and then go see the movie one last time on the big screen,
then I will wait for the "Double Special be the first on your block" DVD -with the 45 minutes of the movie they just had to cut. ;)

Book in one hand and Remote in the other I intergrate both medium into my brain.

By the time this process is complete "The Two Towers" ( the most obvious title for a sequel I have ever seen :D
come to think of it "Return of the King" is a pretty good sequel name too:D )
I will ready for next release.:)

[Ged]

Mithril,
Good thread, shame it's been somewhat hijacked by a discussion about Starship Troopers whatever that is (it was a song by the prog. group YES in my day).

Anyway, to get back on track........

I thought it was a great film, and I like it more and more every time I see it (3 times only so far). My children (only one of whom has read FoTR) loved it too.

There is no doubt that Peter Jackson has gone to a lot of effort to put lots of details into the film that you just don't see on a first viewing. For example:

- The stone trolls in the background after Weathertop are those turned to stone in the Hobbit.
- When the camera pans across the face of the argonath statue Gollum is apparently clinging on just near its eye. (I haven't seen this yet, but will look out for it next time.)
- when Aragorn places his hand near the ring in the final scene with Frodo and the Eye of Sauron flashes, the words "Aragorn! Elessar" can be heard.
- when Aragorn says to Boromir that, yes he has been to Minas Tirith many years ago, this is a reference to the fact that he was there as Thorongil in his youth, and competed with and somewhat "dominated" Denethor, Boromir's Father.

there are many more.

Favourite scenes which were different from the book or not in the book at all:

- Gandalf sitting by the fire muttering "my precious, my precious" to himself before Frodo appears after the party. This really shows the lure of the ring on his mind, and illustrates it better than any individual scene in the book IMHO.
- Arwen's "flight to the ford". Bit of a shock when the sword appeared at Aragorn's throat, but the following scene with the Black Riders chasing her across the plain in an arc behind her was marvellous. Didn't really miss Glorfindel: a worthy and powerful elf but not mentioned again in the LoTR.
- the visualisation of Isildur and Elrond at the crack of doom, and Elrond shouting "Isidur!" more in desperation than in command. Brilliant.
- the whole "hook line and sinker" that is pushed down the well by pippin in Moria (as opposed to a pebble), and the look on Pippin's face as the noise goes on and on and on. I'm that would have raised a smile to even old JRR's face.
- the flight down the staircase in Moria and the marvellous fight with the Balrog. How could this have been done ANY better?
- Aragorn deliberately crossing to look in the pool in Dimrill Dale.
- the beauty of Galadriel - Cate Blanchett (!!)
- the argonath.
- the way that Aragorn and Frodo discuss his leaving. Aragorn is tempted by the ring (not really shown in the book), and has wisdom enough to realise that the fellowship is being destroyed by it and that Frodo must go forwards alone. (The book does imply that Aragorn's heart is set on Minas Tirith.)
- the marvellous scene where Boromir dies. Only 3 arrows vs the "many" of the book. But what feeling, what emotion when they thud home. I just cannot imagine how that scene could have been visualised and acted any better. Then the final dialogue between Aragorn and Bormomir. Sorry to say it, but better than in the book IMHO.
- the terrified look on Frodo's face as he stands by the bank willing himself to take that step alone to Mordor.

these are just a few things I liked. I'm sure many more will occur to me!

[Mithiril]

THANK YOU for the post! I saw the movie again tonight and your last two points especially got to me even more this time. I find Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir incredibly well done and his death scene is more and more moving every time I see it. I say this not just as a Tolkien fan but as a film buff, it is wonderful acting and worthy of some award or other. (IMO the Oscars will mostly ignore individual performances in this film, unfortunately).

And the scene of Frodo at the bank, filled with, what? fear, regret, doubt? And then, remembering the words of Gandalf, moves on to decision and determination. All wordlessly done, more good acting from Elijah.

I could go on,....

[Greenwood]

Ged

I agree with most of what you said, but Oh my!, if you had posted that message about three weeks ago on this forum, the ultra-fanatics would have shredded you alive quicker than an annoyed Nazgul! You may still catch some grief.

[tookish-girl]

I have to say I was really distracted in the movie by that final scene at the bank, as I could see Elijah Wood trying not to blink away the tears in his eyes while it was going on. Still, it was very powerfully done, likewise when he tries to stop Sam from following him, but has to turn the boat around to get him out of the water.

[Kuduk]

Originally posted by Ged
...Favourite scenes which were different from the book or not in the book at all:

- Gandalf sitting by the fire muttering "my precious, my precious" to himself before Frodo appears after the party. This really shows the lure of the ring on his mind, and illustrates it better than any individual scene in the book IMHO......

- the marvellous scene where Boromir dies. Only 3 arrows vs the "many" of the book. But what feeling, what emotion when they thud home. I just cannot imagine how that scene could have been visualised and acted any better. Then the final dialogue between Aragorn and Bormomir. Sorry to say it, but better than in the book IMHO.


At the risk of being called an 'ultra-fanatic' I hope you won't mind if I comment on a couple of your points, Ged.

First of all, let me say once again for the record that I am a fan of the movie and that I also enjoyed both the scenes I quoted from your post. However, my take on Gandalf's muttering 'My precious, etc.' was not so much an indicator of the lure of the Ring to him but of the growing surety in Gandalf's mind of the true identity of Bilbo's ring. I say this because just prior to that scene, Bilbo says 'my precious' to Gandalf which Gandalf immediately picks up on and repeats, "My precious?" as if wondering why Bilbo would use those words. His subsequent tentative try at picking up the ring tells him that this is not your ordinary magic ring. Finally, right after Frodo comes back, Gandalf sets off for Minas Tirith where he is able to confirm his suspicions.

I also agree that Aragorn and Boromir's final conversation was very well done in the movie. However, I don't know if anyone can really make the judgment or opinion that it was better done than the book. I say this because in the book the conversation doesn't happen in FotR, it happens at the beginning of TTT where Tolkien was probably more interested in getting the narrative moving along rather than providing an early dramatic climax. Who can say that if JRRT had decided to put Boromir's actual death scene in FotR that he might not have portrayed it more dramatically? I think Peter Jackson made a very shrewd decision to move Boromir's death into FotR so that the ending of the movie would have a heightened sense of drama. But I would caution against making comparative judgments of 'better' or 'worse' between the book and movie only because the author and the director may often have divergent reasons for their decisions. I feel it is better to judge the movie on its own terms and I think that given Peter Jackson's interpretation of the book, he does a very successful job of conveying that interpretation, especially in light of the constraints he seems to have been working under.

Thanks.

[EverEve]

i dont know if its the same for any of u guys, but teh movie seems to get sadder every time i see it (41/2 times...i managed to catch the last forty minutes one time wen i had walked out of a movie and my friend and i decided to go see it again). seriously, i was fine the first two times, and now each time i see it, i almost start crying. and thats saying something considering i never (well, rarely) cry over movies. its the boromir scene that gets me. he tried so hard to save merry and pip.....doesnt that depress u:(

i love the entire movie, pretty much. the actors were great, and so were the effects...

[Ged]

Kuduk,

Well, I pretty much agree with all that you say. To use the words "better than" is asking for trouble.

For the record, I agree that the film and the book should be considered entirely on their own merits. Coming new to this site what struck me was that a lot of people were not doing that, they seemed to be continually judging the film against the book. This is unfair, for a whole host of reasons.

We do need to give PJ the credit for knowing his business. The example you give - Boromir dying at the end of this film rather than the start of the next - is a good case in point.

Aragorn knowing what has happened to Frodo and Sam is another. PJ needed to end the film with the audience (many/most of whom do not know the story) having a clear idea what was going to happen immediately after. Frodo and Sam off to Mordor; Aragaon, Gimli and Legolas chasing down the orcs who took Merry and Pippin. He couldn't have left it with Aragorn standing around on the bank debating what to do.

[dazriel]

Hi

..new elf here. Since I've seen the movie I started re-reading the books - became totally obsessed - finished reading Return of the King in the wee small hours of Sunday morning literally in tears at the end (don't want to spoil it for anyone who's not there yet).
The first time I read the books I skipped a lot of the songs, appendices etc., but this time I read everything exhaustively, and I must credit PJ and all the crew for an even better job than I had thought. There are so many seemingly insignificant details in the movie which show that Pj etc have carefully read every detail and tried to faithfully render the emotion as well as the scale of the story.

Just my 2 (Euro) cent!

Dazriel

[Kuduk]

Welcome, Dazriel!

What kind of elf are you? Are you a high elf? a wood elf?.....maybe, a Dark Elf?

[WackerBacker]

The most pleasant surprise of the movie for me was how closely the scenes matched the images I had in my head from reading the books. Granted, the last reading was several (?fifteen) years ago, so there's likely some mental filling-in. It also meant missing some of the subtler details like the stone-trolls, so I'll be heading to the theater again soon. Thanks to the posters here for sharing things to look for.

Sorry I missed Harad's posts before they were deleted. I didn't read Starship Troopers but I got the gist of the political theme from it, although I'm sure the book was much more sophisticated about it. But I bet the book didn't have the shower scene.

[Snaga]

I seem to have posted this all over the place, but not on this thread... I loved Ian Holm's portrayal of Bilbo. He had him down to a tee: lovable, thoughtful, flustered, funny ... and so sad at what Frodo has to go through.

There really are loads of things to admire. Trying not to repeat everyone else:

- The landscape that Arwen races the Nazgul through
- The flood of the Bruinen river (even if some don't like Arwen doing a spell, the flood itself was great)
- 'I think I've broken something!' - a carrot!
- The Nazgul creeping into the Prancing Pony to try to kill the hobbits, and stabbing pillows
- Barad-dur
- Minas Tirith, and the vale of Anduin
- The army of Sauron clashing with the armies of the Last Alliance.

PS Check out the opening lines spoken by Cate B, and compare to Treebeard speaking in RotK to Galadriel and Celeborn.

[Minas]

For me I found the fireworks to be the most impressive part of the movie.
They just seemed so amazing and the dragon was a great touch.
On other threads I've been reading about how people want more gore and fighting scenes on the DVD for FOTR. Personally I hope there will be more scenes like the fireworks and pipe smoking ones at the Shire. Jackson said when he was first awarded the film 3+ years ago that he was dreaming of 10000 orcs asailing Helms Deep. They also spent 3 months of the 200 odd days filming those scenes so I'm sure there will be plenty of action from there so there is plenty of gore to come in the TTT.

I have already given Sean Bean as Boromir my Oscar closely followed by the others. His torment makes him the last truely complex character left in the film.

[daisy]

I have to say I was also very impressed by the musical score. It was there but not intrusive. Somtimes when I watch a movie the music NEVER stops.

I loved Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir - really rounded out the character for me actually.

Loved the Gandalf - eagle scene.
Council of Elrond
Moria - especially the bridge although it was quite hollywood - scene outside after the loss of Gandalf also got me and I already knew he'd come back!!

One idea would be to start a thread about films made from books history and whether the adaptations were any good. It would be interesting to see whether people feel most adaptations suck. Some of my absolute horror moments:

Simon Birch as Owen Meany Good Lord. I didn't go NEAR a theatre.

House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende. Winona Forever!

Little Mermaid - uhhh didn't she actually become sea foam???
Pocahontas - I sense a Disney trend...
X-Men.

And I HATED Starship Troopers - I was eight months pregnant at the time and ready to cry over ANYTHING.
I was rooting for the brain at the end and hoping it would knock Doogie Howser flat on his behind.

daisy
:)

[Elbereth]

bunnywhippit...I also never read the LOTR before seeing the movie...and I am really glad I didn't.

After seeing the movie I bought the book and read it from cover to cover and read a companion book "Hobbits, Elves, and Wizards". I am now completely hooked and am currently reading the "Simarillion" and I plan to read the rest of Tolkein's novels in the months to come.

I can now enjoy both the movie and the book for their own merits. And I am truly enjoying my Tolkein experience.

As for some highlights from the movie:

*I loved the Hobbiton scenes and watching the reaction that Gandalf gets as he passes the village and hobbit's homes.

*I thought it was very good of PJ to include a small snibits of Arwen and Aragorn's romance. (which was left out of the actual story of LOTR, but included in the Appendices at the end of the book)

*Loved seeing Legolas walk on top of the snow while the others trudged through the thick snow of the mountain. Legolas kicks butt!

*I loved the scene that Sam chases Frodo into River and almost drowns...now that is devotion

[ReadWryt]

Every time I see the scene with Frodo and Gandalf riding in the cart in the beginning I see what wonderfull things can be invented to bring audiences that have not read the books up to speed about the nature (Difference) in Hobbit Society and lifestyle. It is a wonderfull blending of the forward from The Hobbit and a terific explaination of what makes Bilbo, and later Frodo, not your average Halfling, while giving us sound character development and understanding of the relationship between Frodo and the Wizard.