JRR Tolkien: True Blue Roman Catholic — or Closet Freemason?

[Barliman Butterbur]

Have you ever stopped to think about the original basis of Tolkien's drawings of heraldry, symbols, logos? Have you, like me, simply accepted them as coming straight out of his imagination, having their basis in a private symbolism of his own?

While researching the symbolism of rings for quite another purpose, I quite by chance (or serendipity) came across a website with a very startling assertion: That a great many of Tolkien's designs — such as the design of Moria's Gate, for instance — are based on ancient Freemason symbolism! Since the discussion depends almost entirely upon the examination and comparison of graphics, instead of talking about it I refer you to http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ring.html , and let you see and contemplate for yourself. You just might be as startled as I was. At the least, it's food for thought!

Barley

PS: For those who wish to delve further into this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tolkien+freemason

[Arvedui]

There was a time when I was thinking that Tolkien may very well have had some connections with Free Masonry, so that you have found a lot of similarities only serves as more 'evidence' to me.

But I still haven't found any source that can tell if he really was, though... :(

[Thorondor_]

My first impression was similar to one idea mentioned in your first link:
His sources are pagan (The Kalevala, the Ring Cycle of the Niebulung, ancient Celtic and Germanic myth, etc.
So I don't buy the mason theory... yet ;)

[SpankusAurilius]

Once again Barley, you have sparked my interest in things which i cannot begin to comprehend. But lack of understanding does not deter my fascination. I'm at the point where I'm looking for my own conclusions on a lot of life's most puzzling questions. I am currently delving into texts of the Sumerians.... if anyone has any input or interesting theories, please....... let me in.
Thanks,
Spank

[Hammersmith]

Tolkien also borrowed from Greek Mythology. Are you suggesting he embraced polytheism too? Besides, the only similarity I can make out is that both are arches. As far as arches go, they seem quite unique.

[Barliman Butterbur]

Are you suggesting he embraced polytheism too?

I'm suggesting nothing. I simply offer what I found.

Once again Barley, you have sparked my interest in things which I cannot begin to comprehend. But lack of understanding does not deter my fascination.

That's the kind of attitude I love!!! (Don't forget: what we don't comprehend outnumbers what we do, as the aggregate particles of the Gobi desert outnumber a grain of sand...so you're in good company!)

I'm at the point where I'm looking for my own conclusions on a lot of life's most puzzling questions. I am currently delving into texts of the Sumerians.... if anyone has any input or interesting theories, please....... let me in.
Thanks,
Spank

I would love to get into that with you, aber es ist verboten bei unser Füherer!

Once upon a time early in my checkered career of spiritual wanderlust, I investigated Theosophy — now there's something as exotic and juicy as a ripe plum! When you're done with the Sumerians, you might look into that too. :D

Barley

[octoburn]

I believe Tolkien's intentions (with all of middle-earth) were to create an extremely large myth that created a "reality" behind (and encompassed almost all of) the mythologies of Europe at the time. this is evident in almost every story within the realms of Middle Earth. every one could be twisted or "perverted" into a modern myth. I think the similarities are merely evidence that he knew of Freemasonry, and it influenced his writings and fictitious world, just like every other story he'd read as a child.

[Lady_of_Gondor]

Well, I don't think it is necessarily his belief system. He stated his devotion to Catholicism on more than one occasion. Here's my take: Many writers during the English Renaissance heavily employed Classical myth (Greek and Roman Gods and Goddess) into Christian Literature. Take, for example, John Milton's Paradise Lost, and also much of Shakespeare's work, and many others. John Milton is an example of a fervant Christian (Anglican - hated Catholics, but still). Yet, he used classical allusions to false Gods without feeling as though he was abandoning his faith. Why couldn't Tolkien have done the same thing with the Free Masonry symbols. Every author and artist is influenced in some way or another. That doesn't mean that they necessarily believe ver batum everything they are influenced by.

[Haldatyaro]

It's doubtful that Tolkien was a Freemason. Don't forget that in England during his time, Catholics weren't exactly welcome in the Lodges, nor did they seek membership. It may still be the case, I don't know. I'm an American Freemason and know Brethren from many different religious traditions.

I think the key is in Tolkien's intentions to create a believable Middle-earth that existed many thousands of years ago. Naturally, he would draw upon (consciously or no) symbolism that can be found in Europe -- the same symbolism that Freemasonry borrows.

The meaning behind Royal Arch symbolism are intrinsic to Masonic belief, but they aren't necessarily Masonic in origin. Freemasonry draws upon a lot of heterogeneous Western (ie European) traditions, Biblical referents, Renaissance-era metaphysics, and so on and employs them in what could be viewed allegorically. In Masonic ritual, symbols acts as instruments of instruction and knowledge, often presented in parable form.

However, in Tolkien's conception, the symbolism is contained within his construct, mythology and universe. The two pillars clearly represent the Two Trees, for instance, (or perhaps the Sun and Moon, or even the Lamps of the Valar) and in no way intellectually function like the Masonic pillars. There's no lesson to be learned from the Moria Gate.

To me, it's like comparing Der Ring of the Niebelungenlied and The One Ring of LoTR. Yes, there are similarities, and rings of magic are part of many old legends, but each is a sui generis object within the context of their respective tales.

[Barliman Butterbur]

I'm mildly surprised (though gratified) that someone has taken up this thread again (I thought it died long ago), but more to the point has added things of interest!

My paternal grandfather was a Freemason in his early life. He lost everything in the Crash, and never again had the time nor money (nor, I suppose, the enthusiasm) to indulge it.

Great and permanent poverty coming hard on the heels of fairly significant wealth can certainly put a kink in one's mystico/spiritual proclivities...

Barley

[Eledhwen]

Presumably you mean This sort of thing (http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/royarch.jpg). There are also examples chiselled into tombstones (http://cemeteries.wordpress.com/category/odd-fellows/) of Tolkien-like symbols.

I think it's far more likely that both Tolkien and the Freemasons drew on older symbolism. I have long been fascinated by pilgrim badges (http://www.pewterreplicas.co.uk/pilgrim%20badges.html), which I believe have pre-Christian origins and were either re-assigned as was, or adapted from their original meanings, to sell to an eager Christianised populace. The one called the Yorkist Sun looks very much like a the symbol for a Silmaril, to me.

Haldatyaro speculates about the two trees matching masonic pillars. If they compare to any pillars at all, I would say it was the pillars of fire and cloud that guided the Exodus from Egypt. (fire by night, cloud by day). However, I prefer the more obvious sun and moon representations. Do trees (or a tree) provide the origins of the sun and moon in any other mythologies, I wonder? I'd be interested to know.

[Mike]

I've found that Freemasonic imagery has generally been "found" in some of the most unlikely places, as if Freemasonry somehow influences and permeates everything. The problem is, of course, that it doesn't, and a lot of information on Freemasonry is simply, well, wrong.

A good example is the ascription of Freemasonic imagery to the Whitechapel Murders of 1888, most famously considered in the comic book "From Hell", which drew on other sources. Somehow, the ways the murders were commited prove that Jack the Ripper was a Freemason.

Except, of course, there is no such evidence. Stephen Knight's books on Jack the Ripper (claiming he was the Freemason William Gull) and on Freemason are both based on the shakiest of foundations.

That brings me to Tolkien. I would agree that they might have used imagery, but the site you (Barley) posted oh-so-long ago seems to be going into Tolkien's works with the a priori assumption that he was using specific Freemason images. As we might all guess...if you think something is there in the first place, you're bound to find it's true no matter how false your initial assertion may be.

[Barliman Butterbur]

Nice to see this thread activated again after three years! I thought it pretty much had seen its day.

(And lo and behold — this, on 2/18/08 — turns out to be my 2600th post, long in the coming! I would have been up to 3400, but they subtracted 800 in the "Great Purge" a few years back, a silly attempt to try to weed out posts that deserved to be "not counted" from those that did... :eek:)

To Mike: Yes, it certainly was a long time ago! Looking at the link I included in the original post, there still seems to me to be startling similarities between those particular/specific drawings and some of those done by Tolkien.

Barley