Was Fëanor proven right? Organizational thread.

[Ithrynluin]

This debate was thought of by Snaga, though it never happened, so I am simply going to quote his post:


Here are the rules:

(1) I, the host, will post a topic.
(2) There will be two teams, each taking one side of the debate. People may put themselves forward to be one of the teams. (ie you choose which side of the topic you are debating).
(3) Each team will have 5 members. When both teams have 5 members the debate may commence.
(4) The team that was filled first, posts first.
(5) The debate lasts exactly one week from the first post. (Extensions may be applied and will be granted at the discretion of the host, if both sides agree and there seems to be more to be said.)
(6) The host will appoint four other judges to assist him in voting for the winning team. Whichever team gets the most votes wins (obviously!)
(7) Each judge may also nominate one 'star debator'.
(8) Normal standards of behaviour in the debate apply... try to be friendly and honest at all times.


In regards to (3), I don't think we need to set any kind of limit, or at least not as high a number as that, given that interest in debating has waned. We may simply see how many people are interested and even out the number of teams then.

About (5), I think the debate can last well over a week, perhaps a fortnight, so that those who don't have loads of free time on their hands, needn't be too strained to hurry up and deliver their post within the nick of time.

We may also want to even out the teams, as regards Tolkien knowledge and debate experience, but we can deal we that as we get there. The same goes for judges.

Do you have any comments or suggestions?

Now, who is interested in debating this topic? Come forth and pick your side:

Published Silmarillion - The Flight of the Noldor
Then turning to the herald he [Feanor] cried: "Say this to the Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set a greater fire in me than thou knowest. Such hurt at the least will I do to the Foe of the Valar that even the mighty in the Ring of Doom shall wonder to hear it. Yea, in the end they shall follow me. Farewell!"

Were the (underlined) words of Feanor proven true?

OK... pick your sides. The Noldorin Team will argue 'Yes'; The Valarin Team will argue 'No':D

[YayGollum]

How's about we change the name of the correct team (that which has been called Noldorin) to Feanorian or something cool like that? :rolleyes: No large deal. I would go with the correct side. I have no problems with the rule things that I see so far. Why not make them official? Okay, fine. *sits on paws and waits for others to debate rules* :rolleyes:

[Thorondor_]

I am cool with the rules. I will go with the "incorrect" side. It should be noted however that Elfarmari has already done a good job at starting the previous debate on this topic. So, in order to balance things out, I nominate Barley , Gothmog, Grong, Ithy, Lhun and Walter and to the "incorrect" side :D.




Kidding..

[YayGollum]

Why kid? I am intimidated by zero of those people. Mayhaps they could give me a couple of things to think about, but I would easily win. I haven't even read any of the Tolkien type books in a while. Have fun. :rolleyes:

[Celebthôl]

I am cool with the rules. I will go with the "incorrect" side. It should be noted however that Elfarmari has already done a good job at starting the previous debate on this topic. So, in order to balance things out, I nominate Barley , Gothmog, Grong, Ithy, Lhun and Walter and to the "incorrect" side :D.




Kidding..

Well, those 5 are probably the best debaters we have (amongst Snaga himself and others).
I'm not sure what side im meant to be on, i dont think Feanor's right in some aspects, but right in others. . . what does that mean? :confused:

I think im more in the "he's proven true" camp thought. . .

(I'll try to be a part of this debate, but im VERY busy at the moment and dont know how much time i can spend doing this. . . this is the first time i've been on here since i came back and posted, so i'm not sure. When does this debate start? (like a week or month?).

[Thorondor_]

Well, those 5 are probably the best debaters we have
I know, that was the basis of my little joke :). However, I do hope teams will be balanced, as Ithy has proposed.

[Ithrynluin]

Thol, it is good to see you show interest. I think the debate will probably start in a week's time at most, though it should be sooner. Think about the topic again, and then decide which side you'd rather debate for. If you decide to join the Feanorian side, then perhaps I'll join the Valarin side, and we can have a two on two debate, if no one else expresses a desire to participate. I hope more people come, though, the more the merrier.

[Wraithguard]

I'll stick with the Valarin side unless I'm needed elsewhere. I'll argue either side happily even though I'm biased against Feanor. :cool:

[Celebthôl]

Okay, decided, i'm on the side that goes with what Feanor says being true! :D So i'm...er...Noldorian...or Feanorian or whatever you'r calling it now! :p :D

Know what you mean Wraithguard about bein biased against Feanor, I hate him! Lol!

I'll speak to Aule Ithy see if he's up for it! And I know Snaga will be up for this! ;)

Get the Periaur together for an assault! :D

[Arvedui]

Well, if Aulë is joining the Noldorin side, I just have to join the Valarian side!

But I will not be able to participate until october 17, though. I hope that is OK?
And if there is a serious mis-balance, I can always jump to the Noldorin side. there are quite a few arguments for both sides on this one. :)

[Hammersmith]

Room for me? I like Feanor but I think I'd like to argue against. Any space?

[Thorondor_]

Well, if I read correctly, there are two Noldorin (Yay and Celebthôl) and four Valarin (Ithrynluin, Wraithguard, Arvedui and me). But enough debaters said they would change sides if necessary so I don't think it should be a problem. The question is, when do we start?:)

[Ithrynluin]

Sorry I haven't posted you guys, so much to be done in real life and so little time.

We could start this debate soon, but should probably even out the teams first, since it seems that it's a 2 against 5 debate at the moment. Arvi, it doesn't seem that Aule is interested in debating, so do you still want to join the Valarin side?

If one more person joined we could have a four on four debate.

[Ingwë]

Noldorin team: Thol and Yay and probably Arvi
Valarin team: Ithy, Rai, Thor, Smitty

You need one more Fëanorean. Where is Indy? He's Fëanorean. I would like to join to the Valarin team but I am too busy and the things aren't going well with the school...
However, if on Monday you don't have fourth Fëanorean I'll join the Noldorin team :)

[Turgon]

Well seeing as there is still a place to be filled in the debate I'd like to offer my services. I can fill the final place in the Noldorin team if I am needed. I'd really like to see these debates up and running again... and I have some time on my hands at the moment. So sign me up.

[Ithrynluin]

Excellent. Now, before the debate commences, would anyone like to switch sides at the last moment?:D Otherwise, let's start, say tomorrow, and end in 14 days. The team that got filled first was the Valarin, so I suppose they (we) ought to go first.

[Arvedui]

So, where did I end up?
Noldorin?

Brilliant! ;)

[Ithrynluin]

Okay, good. I'm quite busy at the moment, so would one of my teammates (Rai, Smitty, Thor) care to put together the opening post? The teams can also communicate via PM if need be.

[Hammersmith]

Okay, good. I'm quite busy at the moment, so would one of my teammates (Rai, Smitty, Thor) care to put together the opening post? The teams can also communicate via PM if need be.
Where shall we post? In this thread? I'll let Rai or Thorondor take the lead, whichever...:o

[YayGollum]

Yes, this is the official debate thread. Why not? Post, crazy as well as achingly mistaken Valar types. :rolleyes:

[Ithrynluin]

Well, the debate has started. Do you guys agree that it should last for two weeks? Does that seem like enough time, or perhaps too much to someone? We could even agree to wrap it up when the two teams post their closing statements.

[Thorondor_]

I will vote with two weeks. Should it be "achingly" ;) necessary, we could prolong it.

[YayGollum]

Why would things not be wrapped up after the closing statements? :confused: oh well. Yes, two weeks is good. Why not? Also, thanks for making me look entirely insane for writing that this is the official debate thread, whichever creepy moderator type separated the actual debate from this thread thing. :rolleyes: Anyways, yes, it was a good idea to do that, I guess. *hides*

[Arvedui]

Two weeks, with the option of requesting further debate should it be needed.

Sounds good to me.:)

[Ithrynluin]

Alright the end of our debate is approaching, and we ought to wrap things up on/by Monday. Unless you guys think we need to extend?

A couple of things:

1. Long before the debate started and before I was sure I'd participate myself, I intended to pick the judges. I can still do that, though if some of you have objections, someone else'll do it in my stead. Would you prefer 3 or 5?

2. Traditionally, each team posted a closing statement at the end of each debate, summing up their main arguments. Now we can do that too, though we don't need to if we don't see the need.

[YayGollum]

It is too bad that the Arvedui person got called away and that my other team members aren't too active, either. If any of them read these sorts of threads anymore (no offense, of course. I don't know what you people are doing.), they should at least toss me some sort of Private Message sort of thing with the points that they most adamantly wish for me to stick into the last post. Unless they suddenly show up to ask to prolong the slaughter of the incorrect side. Which is understandable, since they, for some crazy reason, weren't able to participate too much.

1. I enjoy believing that people who are in charge of picking people to be in charge of things enjoy picking people who are trustworthy. Have fun with picking your judges, ithrynluin person. I will just have to trust that you will attempt to find some that can be objective enough to not let their crazily passionate opinions about the Feanor character get in their way while judging that my side is correct. :rolleyes:

2. I love the summing up posts. The most fun to be had in the debate! Especially since your team got to go first, which means that mine gets to go last. :D

[Hammersmith]

I owe an apology first to my venerable team mates and equally to my worthy opponents :o
I've had a sudden workload thrown at me, and I've only just escaped it. Eagerly I pounced upon the website only to see Ithy calmly and judiciously taking care of every single argument. Ho hum. I'll check back before the end and see if I can contribute anything else, and for what it's worth I did read through what I missed. Hopefully I can add more before the end of existence.

[Thorondor_]

1. I would say 3 judges
2. I agree with the final post and with the ending of the debate on monday.

[Celebthôl]

1) Id say 5 judges, same as the old days.
2) I agree.

[Ithrynluin]

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to type up a closing statement for our team. Someone else can do it if they like, though I don't think these final posts are any kind of a must. As things stand now, Yay and the guys have the final post anyway, so we may leave things as they are if you'd like, and round up the judges.

[YayGollum]

Hm. I had thought that the judges would have already been rounded up. Or maybe you just meant that they would be shown to their judging thread. Okay, fine. Anyways, no, I wouldn't think that the final posts are a must. just lots of fun. Whether you people are able to make a final post or not, I shall show up before the end of today to make a nice as well as neat and obviously final post.

[Arvedui]

Ass dear old Gothmog seems to have lost his marbles, I'd say that we should have 5 judges....;) :D
On a more serious note: any number of judges is OK with me.

Sorry for having left you guys out there to dry, but it seems to me that YayGollum did very well on his own IMO, and Laura had more or less stated what he had to say, so I guess that we had said what we had to say anyway.

Thanks for a most challenging encounter, BTW! :)