Helms Deep PICS

[Arwen]

I dont know if these are old or not but i found these today...Hlems Deep pics from TTT.Anyone got pics of Arwen at Helms Deep...i heard there was one.

Gandalf:http://www.numenoreen.com/Images/GandalfHelm.jpg

Soldiers:http://www.numenoreen.com/Images/AVHelm.jpg

Aragon:http://www.numenoreen.com/Images/HDRAragorn.jpg

***This thread now contains the merged posts from the thread "More Helm's Deep Pics posted by Arwen*** Grond

[Asfaloth]

Arwen, I enjoy the pictures. Thank you for posting the links.

[chrome_rocknave]

Tis kind of you to post these pics for everyone. **I spotted Legolas in the background** :D Somehow I'm not buying Gandalf's outfit though....it looks like a curtain...and he's holding the curtain rod...hehe :rolleyes:

BTW- Arwen isn't supposed to be at Helms Deep. I've heard rumors that PJ is putting here in there nonetheless for some reason unbeknownst to me....But anyways, I wouldn't count on her being there. Then again, you never know....stranger things have happened....

[Arwen]

Yeah, if Arwen does appear at Hlems Deep...im sure she wont do to much, she might just save someone breifly or something.

[DGoeij]

In some other thread I've picked up the rumor she delivers Anduril. Thanks for the pictures. Gandalf indeed looks a little silly in this outfit, but maybe its taken when he is motion. That surely does make up for silly pictures. I hope so anyway.

[ReadWryt]

I hate to say it, but after dragging all but the Aragorn picture into Photoshop and doing some cleanup, it looks like Arwen is in the Gandalf picture off to the right, swinging a sword. At least that looks like her horse and the costume has REALLY similar ornimentation on the shoulders. In fact she is holding a sword in both pictures. I guess the part of this that makes her NOT Xena is that she doesn't have that little Frisby thing...

[Arwen]

Yeah i noticed her there too...im not fully sure if its her though...i mean her costume is a bit manly in the pic.....but it looks like her.

[Tuor]

Really cool pics. I think I see Arwen, but I'm not sure. Surely Mr. Jackson respects Tolkien more than that? Gandalf DOES look a little silly, and he hasn't got a sword. on the note of Anduril, the third time I saw the movie, I thought I saw it on Aragorn's back a little while before Boromir attacks Frodo. maybe it was just his bow, though. I guess i'll find out next year. sigh.

[Asfaloth]

Omigosh Read Wryt I do believe you're right! At first I thought you meant the white horse tossing his head in the air closer to the foreground, and that one *doesn't* look like Arwen's horse (I am a horse person), but you are right -- in the background on the right hand side of the picture, facing the camera, is a horse that does look like the one who played Asfaloth in FOTR. And yeah the rider does look like it could be Arwen all right. Really, the girl should at least wear a helmet! :)

[chrome_rocknave]

Uh oh---I think I see the "Arwen" in this pic :eek: Well, there is still a possibility that that is actually a man....and not Arwen...

[Asfaloth]

Maybe, chrome_rocknave, but I wouldn't bet much money on it!

[DGoeij]

Recognizing a horse? I usually seperate them by color and size if possible. I guess its different when you deal more often with horses. Good point though.
Arwen fighting at Helms Deep.....................................
O joy, can't wait to see it. Is she going to do in Saruman as well?

[salva]

It's it. Why is Arwen There? I'm completely against her having that protagonism in the films.

Maybe she will be the one who throws the ring to muntain of Doom, too :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Asfaloth]

DGoeij - Yep it's different when you deal with horses all the time. They don't look even close to alike!

Actually one of the things I like about the movie is that they got almost all of the horse stuff right (most movies get almost all of it wrong). In the flight to the ford, for example, the horses really were running at a good clip, not being held back as you commonly see in films. (The exception is the one closeup of Asfaloth's head, in which he is very collected and cannot be running at any great speed.) The only other horse thing that didn't ring true was the closeup of the black rider's hoof, in which you can see these huge nails sticking out... they're too big and too high up and too sharply angled outwards to make sense, since those nails would be causing the horse a great deal of pain and as we know those guys are riding regular Rohirrim horses. But perhaps there's some sort of sorcery at work there...

:)

[DGoeij]

Well, I've read somewhere that they messed up those horses pretty much before they (the horses) would accept Nazgul on their backs.

ah here:
In the FOTR, chapter Many Meetings, typing errors on my account:

(Frodo asks Gandalf)
>>Then why do these black horses endure such riders? All animals are terrified when they draw near, even the elf-horse of Glorfindel. The dogs howl and the geese scream at them.'
Because these horses are born and bred to the service of the Dark Lord in Mordor. Not all his servants and chattels are wraiths!<<

So I guess the stolen black horses from Rohan were the fore-fathers of the eventual steeds of the Nazgul.

[Arwen]

And these ones show Arwen is there....here is the link http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots/Book3_Chapter07.htm#VII and if you go to the bottom of the page you will see a list of the chapters from the movies that have pics from TTT and ROTK.

[Asfaloth]

Aha. Thanks, DGoeij.

[Lord Snotty]

great! some more pics for me to look at :D

[dapence]

Arwen looks a bit bruised in one of those pics ... I'd hate to be the orc that slapped around Elrond's daughter.

I could sware that ol' PJ said that Arwen would not be at Helm's Deep.

[DGoeij]

No problem. My ego always swells when I can throw with a Tolkien-quote. :D
I'm going to see the movie tonight for a second time. I will take notice of the acting of the horses. To see if I can say the difference with the usual 'held back' galloping one sees in westerns and the 'go for it' in FOTR.

[DGoeij]

To know that we have to wait for a year to find out about it. Thanks again for the pics.
Does Asfaloth recognizes the ear of the horse Arwen is sitting on? (no offence):D

[salva]

Here we go, a jew more images from TTT:

Wormtongue:

http://homepage.mac.com/rayharryhausen/.Pictures/wormtongue.jpg

Theoden:

http://homepage.mac.com/rayharryhausen/.Pictures/theoden.jpg

Faramir:

http://homepage.mac.com/rayharryhausen/.Pictures/faramir.jpg

Eowyn:

http://homepage.mac.com/rayharryhausen/.Pictures/eowyn.jpg

Eomer:

http://homepage.mac.com/rayharryhausen/.Pictures/eomer.jpg

And Denethor:

http://homepage.mac.com/rayharryhausen/.Pictures/denethor.jpg

Hope you like them :)

Salva

[Asfaloth]

DGoeij, did you notice the look on Legolas' horse's face when he arrives in Rivendell, pulls the poor thing to a stop and leaps to the ground? Legolas looks properly graceful but the horse isn't too impressed with the actor's lack of finesse. (To be fair, the fault may also lie with the horse.)

[DGoeij]

Too late, I already went for the second time last friday. I'll freak out if I'll start noticing expressions on horse-faces. :D
What do you mean exactly, that mr. Bloom was a little rough on the..... ehm...... you know.. the ropes that you use to guide the horse. And what would be the horses mistake in that?

I noticed a slight difference in the way Arwen's horse was running in the first and the later shots. The head was at first slightly bent forward, the chin(sp) close to the chest. Later the head was held more horizontal. Is that what you meant? It sure looked like it was running at great speed, with its head held in that horizontal position.

If this goes on too long, I'll never be able to watch a movie without loooking at horse-faces;)

P.s. I always thought the ears of the horse told you its mood. Bent backwards meant something like: Take a hike or get your b**t kicked!

[Asfaloth]

Okay, when Legolas arrives in Rivendell, he pulls on the reins to stop his horse. A really well-trained horse doesn't stop that way and considers it rude to have his sensitive mouth yanked on, but put that aside for now because we don't know how well-trained the horse is. So, he pulls on the reins, the horse's head comes up in protest (you see this in Western movies all the time, too; the horse does it to protect the sensitive bars of the mouth from the excessively heavy or quick pressure of the bit - the bars means the area just at the corners of the mouth, where the bit goes, where there's a natural gap with no teeth; this section of gum is more sensitive to bit pressure than the fleshy corners of the mouth - with the head up in the air the bit is pulling back against the lips instead). Legolas is looking off to the side, oblivious to the distress on the horse's face (but a good rider would know through his own body exactly what was going on with the horse). So, the horse's head has come up, his back has dropped, his eyes roll, his ears are half back, his mouth is gaping open. Again, the open mouth is an attempt to get away from excessive pressure. The horse is already coming to a halt and the rider should be releasing the reins, but he hangs on (this is a common fault with new riders, because humans have the old monkey-reflex to hang onto things).

As for what might be the horse's mistake in that... well, they didn't get a batch of well-trained Hollywood horses for this movie; they picked up what they could get and retrained them. It's possible that the horse used in the scene was so used to poor riding that his instinctive reaction is to protect himself by gapping his mouth and pushing ahead whenever the rider tries to stop him (something that can take a lot of time to fix, especially if ridden by an inexperienced actor) or that in this particular take he was feeling bullheaded about it, or whatever.

Yes, you noticed Arwen's horse correctly. In the earlier shots the neck is higher and strongly arched while the chin is brought in closer to the chest so that the face is vertical. The horse was "collected," moving with his body in a shorter, more rounded frame. That's when they were cantering through some pretty heavy forest and wouldn't be expected to be running too fast. Also the horse himself is an Andalusian/Lippizan cross and both of those breeds collect readily (some breeds find it more difficult).
Later, when the chase was on, he held his head closer to the vertical with his neck stretched out in front of him and his whole body in a longer frame, and you're right -- that's when he was galloping at a good clip. (When you see movies with riders supposedly riding flat-out but the horses are tossing their heads in the air with their mouths open, you know they're trying to run but are being checked back by their riders.)

As for the ears, well, horses have a rich and complex and expressive body language. The ears, in conjunction with the rest of the face and body, tell you a lot once you learn it. If the ears are sort of back it can mean a lot of things (boredom, listening to something, irritation, perturbation, etc.). If they're flat back against the neck, then yes, that is a danger signal.

[DGoeij]

Ok, now you've done it. I'll never be able to look at the spaghetti-westerns again. At least not without looking at what the horses are doing, ears, back, head, toe-nails, whatever.;)

Nevertheless, quite interesting to get this kind of information about things one at firsthand would hardly notice at all.

To bring up some other horse issues, the horses used by the Nazgul, they looked pretty dreadfull. I wonder, could you apply make-up on horses, to make them look like that? Including the foaming and stuff? The spiked horse-shoes, I can imagine them as props, but the foaming and the wide eyes?

[Asfaloth]

Ah, DGoeij, you're so right; you'll never be able to look at 'em the same again. Welcome to my nightmare!

...Yep, the nazgul's horses look good and dreadful, all right. As far as the foam is concerned, well, horse sweat will work into foam with friction (check out Gandalf's horse's butt-cheeks as he arrives at Isengard). Also a horse will foam at the mouth (for reasons I won't get into here but trust me, it's generally a good thing, not a bad thing). The black riders' horses are wearing a lot of clothing etc which helps make them look creepy. And I suspect that the goopy stuff on their faces is added by the makeup folks. If you look at some of the still shots you can see that some of the black horses have white on their legs and faces, and some are faded to a brownish colour, but in the finished movie they appear nice and black. As for their wide eyes, well, they didn't look so unusual to me; it was the reddish glow in the eyes that creeped me out!

[EverEve]

those are awesome pictures...i saw legolas too:D

[DGoeij]

Red glow?
I hate my own curiosity, every time I ask a question I end up in these kinds of situations. Now I'm willing to go to FOTR a third time , only for the sake of the eyes of the steeds of the Nazgul. And its all your fault Asfaloth, you're too good at explaining things and lighting up my cursed curiosity.:D

I can't wait for the Muster of Rohan to see this vast army of cavalary. Oh, and the horses of the Rangers of the North, that would be cool too.

[Asfaloth]

Well, DGoeij, since it's my fault I'd be happy to make it up to you by going *with* you to see it again... as a form of penance... except that you're on the wrong side of the ocean! So I guess you'll have to suffer through it on your own. Check out the Nazgul's horse's eye when the rider is talking to ol' Maggot.

Noro lim!

[DGoeij]

Since I'm spending already enough money on all this. I think I'll wait for the DVD to look at the Nazgul horses eyes.:D

Glad to hear you know what you have done to a humble Dutchie that used to think that horses were meant to be landscape decoration and carrying cowboys.
Nah, that's a prank. Cool to hear some expert-info on a film I really liked. i'm really looking forward in going over TTT with you. Considering Snowmane, Shadowfax, the Rangers horses. Maybe even some human characters.;)

[Asfaloth]

Why thank you, DGoeij. I shall look forward to climbing onto my hobbyhorse once again when TTT hits the theatre!

[apan14]

Originally posted by webmaster
Arwen looks a bit bruised in one of those pics ... I'd hate to be the orc that slapped around Elrond's daughter.

I could sware that ol' PJ said that Arwen would not be at Helm's Deep.

maybe it's not Helm's deep but a later battle with the Elves joining them.

[Cygnus]

Arwen... at helm's deep... EVIL!!!!!! EVIL!!! THE HORROR!!! *Panics and bangs his head against the wall* THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!! *is gunna hunt down peter jackson*

[PRH]

If we absolutely HAVE to be subjected to Arwen at Helm's Deep....why on Middle Earth is her hair up?!?

[apan14]

I don't think it would "hurt" the story with Arwen at Helms deep. Cuz it doesn't fundamentally change the story buy show us the bond between her and Aragorn.

I suppose it's just disconcerting at "any" changes are made at all.

[Eomer Dinmention]

PJ i hate him i've waited so long to see an actual picture of the Characters to see what they really look like in the book ( i thought that PJ was going to make the Characters look exactly like the ones in the book) but NOOOOOOOOOO PJ has to Ruin it for me that stupid #*$!@#$%^&**&$^#%##@! i'll kill him if i ever see him

[Cygnus]

we all will Eormer. Revenge must be exacted

[Elenciryaquen]

Originally posted by PRH
If we absolutely HAVE to be subjected to Arwen at Helm's Deep....why on Middle Earth is her hair up?!?

Amen! I mean c'mon! If shes gonna be killin' orcs her hair should at least be down ... she shoudn't be there in the first friggin' place. ::Sigh:: ::Moans::