Organizational thread: Saruman the Ring-lord

[Ithrynluin]

To elaborate the topic further:

Team A would argue: Saruman had considerable chances at becoming the new Ring-lord and had good reason to think so.

Team B: Saruman had little to no chance at becoming the new Ring-lord, and was foolish to think so.

Please don't use this thread to discuss the topic, just state if you're willing to debate, and which side.

[YayGollum]

Ah! Sounds cool. Since I am not a large fan of the Saruman character, I shall go with Team B. But I have no large problem with switching to a different side. I wouldn't know which side would be harder to debate for. That'd be the one I'd really want to go with!

[Annaheru]

So long as this debate starts sometime after this week (I hate finals) I'll give it go. I'm willing to work either side, but for now I'll balance the ledger by standing on side A.

[Ingwë]

I'd like to join Team B :D

[chrysophalax]

Sounds interesting. I'll join whichever side needs someone.

[Bethelarien]

Count me in. I would prefer to join team A. :) But I'm versatile.

Bring on the pain.

[Seregon]

Count me in! I'll go with Team B.

So far, we have:

Team A: Beth, Annaheru
Team B: Yay, Ingwe, Me

Either: Chrys


(Sorry if it's presumptuous - I was just scrolling down and trying to keep track.)

Anyone else?

(Yikes! Sorry - I put Beth in there twice!)

[YayGollum]

Actually, it looks more like --->

Team A: The Annaheru person (but could switch), the Bethelarien person(preferably, but could switch)

Versus

Team B: The Ingwe and Seregon people (definitely), the superly cool YayGollum person (preferably, but could switch)

as well as the chrysophalax person for either side.

Sure, the ithrynluin person wrote that this thread is only for signing up. The Seregon person got to add his extra information only because he was signing up at the same time. I am just pure evil, I guess. But at least I'm not using this thread to ask some questions that I'd like to ask! *hides*

[Bethelarien]

So why not have

Team A: Annaheru, Beth, Chrys

and

Team B: Yay, Ingwe, Seregon.

That would makes sense to me.

[Ithrynluin]

Hey, what about me? :p

I was sort of waiting to see how many people would show interest, and was considering being a judge myself, though I'd also like to give the debate itself a try. So, if we can find another member willing to participate, we could have 4 vs 4. Maedhros showed interest in debating, though I'm not sure how he'd like the topic.

As for which side, I don't really mind, but if I'm going by YayGollum's criterion of liking a character, I definitely swing closer to Team A! ;)

P.S.: I am pleasantly surprised at the turnout here. Good to know that people are once again itching for a good debate!

[Bethelarien]

Believe me, I've been itching for quite some time now. Very much itching.

If you can get Maedhros to join up, that would rock. I'd be more than happy to have either of you on my team! Woot!

Sorry, Beth's getting a bit excited at the prospect of a good debate that she can sink her teeth into.

[Maedhros]

I was sort of waiting to see how many people would show interest, and was considering being a judge myself, though I'd also like to give the debate itself a try. So, if we can find another member willing to participate, we could have 4 vs 4. Maedhros showed interest in debating, though I'm not sure how he'd like the topic.
The topic is ok with me. But you may need to clarify what does being the Ring Lord means. If it means obtaining the one ring or displacing Sauron as the Dark Lord.

If you can get Maedhros to join up, that would rock. I'd be more than happy to have either of you on my team! Woot!
Ok, you can count me in. I'm ok with either side. But I must warn you that I'm a little rusty at debating.

[Ithrynluin]

But you may need to clarify what does being the Ring Lord means. If it means obtaining the one ring or displacing Sauron as the Dark Lord.


Well, mere possession of the Ring does not make one a Ring Lord, because by that definition, Frodo, Sam and Gollum were all Ring Lords.

Ok, you can count me in. I'm ok with either side.

Great. How about I join team A and you join team B? Or shall we mix it up a little further, everyone? :p

But I must warn you that I'm a little rusty at debating.

Don't believe him folks! He'll constantly say stuff like this to throw you off the track and then bam! outta nowhere he'll cut you down in one fell swoop! :D

Seriously though, I think we all are.

[Maedhros]

Well, mere possession of the Ring does not make one a Ring Lord, because by that definition, Frodo, Sam and Gollum were all Ring Lords.
Thanks.

Great. How about I join team A and you join team B? Or shall we mix it up a little further, everyone?
If people want to mix it, or leave it as it is, I'm ok with that.

Don't believe him folks! He'll constantly say stuff like this to throw you off the track and then bam! outta nowhere he'll cut you down in one fell swoop!
Jeje. In weekdays, I get up at 4:30 am and go to bed at 9:00 to 10:00 pm, so no late posts for me nowadays.

[YayGollum]

Looks as if we would have to wait for confirmation on teamses before we can actually start the thing. The people who wrote that they could go one way or another shall most likely be too intimidated to debate for the team that I am not on. :rolleyes: Yes, myself and the Ingwe, Seregon, and Maedhros people are quite possibly the greatest concentration of talent to team up, at least in the history of this particular website thing. But then, mayhaps there will still be some switching around, to make things look a bit more even for the poor unfortunate souls attached to Team A. <--- a bit of debate smack talk. :rolleyes: So, looks like --->

Team A (or The Losers or Horrifyingly Misinformed):

Annaheru, Bethelarien, chrysophalax, and ithrynluin

Versus

Team B (The Greatest, Easily):

YayGollum, Ingwe, Seregon, and Maedhros

The debate will have to start at some point in the next week, to wait for the Annaheru person to finish with finals. Judges will have to volunteer at some point. As well as, mayhaps a bit of clarification on that Ring Lord bit?

[Bethelarien]

Yes, myself and the Ingwe, Seregon, and Maedhros people are quite possibly the greatest concentration of talent to team up, at least in the history of this particular website thing.

I can't resist pointing out that I won a debate single-handedly. Ha. Go Beth.

I'm ok with the teams as they've been stated.

[elfgirl]

Hey! Don't be forgetting me! I'll join Team A, if I can get another person for Team B. If not, I volunteer to judge.

[Annaheru]

mayhaps a bit of clarification on that Ring Lord bit?

aye I can think of several issues-- no time to list them at the moment-- that should be addressed.

[Ithrynluin]

By Ring Lord I mean supplanting Sauron as the Dark Lord.

Elfgirl, we can wait a bit more and see if we have other volunteers. If not you can have my place.

[chrysophalax]

You wish, Yay!:rolleyes: Losers indeed! *humph* Confirm me for Team A so, when do we start?

[Bethelarien]

Soon, I hope? Who is looking for judges?

And I almost wish we hadn't defined "ring-lord." That argument would've made the debate all the more interesting.

[Ithrynluin]

Who is looking for judges?

I had a couple of judges in mind before starting this thread, members who are both active and eligible to serve as judges; However, I really think we shouldn't concern ourselves with the issue of judges which is of secondary (if not tertiary) importance at the moment.

And I almost wish we hadn't defined "ring-lord." That argument would've made the debate all the more interesting.

Yep, I intended to leave it like that, but a couple of participants requested an explanation.

[Ichigo]

I'd like to debate in.... GROUP B!

[Annaheru]

Ok. I'm out of the grasp of college (for now). If this debate was waiting on me, let's get it rolling.

If it isn't waiting on me, let's pretend, and get it rolling anyway;)

[Bethelarien]

I'm sick of waiting. What's the hold up?

Let's get started already. Teams equal 4-on-4.

Team A: Annaheru, Chrysophalax, Ithrynluin, Bethelarien

Team B: YayGollum, Ingwe, Seregon, Maedhros


How many judges are we having, the usual 5? And has anyone arranged for judges? Who is hosting?

[YayGollum]

Well, the Ichigo person wishes to join the winning team (B) as well. Truly, your side lost the moment I jumped towards B, but you might wish to look around for a fifth, if you feel as if it could help. :rolleyes: As far judges, it looks like this ithrynluin person wishes to obtain three and plans on worrying about it when the debate is over. He will be hosting the thing, as well. What really does hosting equal, anyways, besides starting the threads required and finding some judges? oh well. I have been politely waiting for the debate to get started. If the horrifyingly lazy ithrynluin person doesn't do it within a few days, I can, unless there is some urgency that I don't know about.

[Ithrynluin]

Sure, you can start the thread if you want to. I've been pretty busy, so my participation in the debate will most likely be limited.

Does anyone else wish to join the debate, so we can have a five on five? If not, I don't really mind having 4 against 5.

Also, who will go first?

How about we bunny up?

BUNNY!

Oh, well, looks like our team gets to go first.

Just kiddin' with you guys, of course.

Are there any volunteers on either side who would like to write up their team's opening post?

[YayGollum]

I have never heard of such a bunny thing. Anyways, sure, if you guys wish to go first, I don't especially mind. I enjoy going last. How were such things decided in the old days? :confused: I could flip a coin, but nobody would believe a guy who defends poor Smeagol and Feanor and Eol and Mim and cool characters like that. Who knows? I could twist the truth in some horrible way. :rolleyes: I shall put the thread up, at least.

[Ingwë]

Someone must start... I dont't want to, I don't have time to make a good first post and I don't think I am good enough for that.

[Maedhros]

I can go first in my team, if that is ok with them.

[Maedhros]

Just to be clear, how long does this debate is supposed to last?

[Ithrynluin]

Oh, I don't know, we haven't really set an official date.

The last debate went on for a fortnight, so that can be the deadline for this one as well.

Or we can let it flow uninterrupted, until most of the participants have said what they had to say (and I have a hunch this may happen soon)?

By the way, I've PMed everyone who hasn't shown up, just to remind them about the debate (not that they have to participate) and I've contacted three judges - Ancalagon, Grond, Turgon. Not all of them may have the time or inclination to act as such, so we might have to look for new ones. But I'm getting ahead of myself...

[Ithrynluin]

How's everyone enjoying the debate so far? I think there have been some good arguments from both sides, but I feel we're starting to get sidetracked and recycle previous arguments. I've pretty much said what I had to say, and I probably won't be posting anymore, unless I have something of value to add.

I suggest the rest of you guys try to slowly wrap things up as well, as we don't want to be dragging this debate on forever (it's been 12 days by my reckoning).

I've rounded up the judges, they are: Grond, Snaga and Turgon. As soon as the debate is over (hopefully, in a few days), I'll point them to the (as of yet non-existent) judging thread...

[Bethelarien]

I'd like to get another post in. I should hopefully be able to do that tonight or tomorrow. Monday at the latest?

[YayGollum]

And, as a matter of course, there is the formality of my team getting the last post, since you guys got the first one. I'll be sure to utterly decimate all of the points that you guys can find. *yawns* :rolleyes:

[Maedhros]

I would like if it is at all possible to have a final date to the debate please.

[Ithrynluin]

Well, we haven't set one from the start (which might have been a good idea), so I'm not sure how much sense it would make to introduce a limit now, apart from a friendly reminder to wrap things up. Or would it?

[chrysophalax]

My suggestion is June 1 as an end date. That will have given us over 2 weeks. Time enough, says I!

[Ithrynluin]

Sounds good to me. Anyone from our team plans on posting anymore? I probably won't.

[Maedhros]

I'm ok with that.

[Snaga]

Very much enjoying the debate, and so I'd welcome more posts!:)

Would it be possible for Maedhros to repair the quote tags in post #12 in the thread? It will make it easier to interpret! (I have saved the original so I will spot any editting of the words - so nothing ssssneaky please. - I'm an orc so I think of things that I'm sure wouldn't occur to the noble Maedhros!:))

[Ithrynluin]

I've checked the post in question and I see nothing wrong with the quote tags there? :confused:

[Snaga]

Under the 3rd quote in Maedhros's post, he says:

"But if just seeing Isildur's heir could have such effects, what rash acts would Sauron's fear cause if he knew that the Ring was on the hand of a powerful rival? Much of his available force might be wasted in asault on Gondor requiring new levies to be called out of the East. During this time Saruman's power would grow, allowing him to develop a force capable of defeated Mordor in open combat. While this course may not be easy, it is certainly possible with the probabilities increasing to certain the farther back in time you place Saruman's possession of the Ring.[/quote]
Can you say victory by arms is hopeless against Sauron now."

The close quote tag I've highlighted makes me wonder if part of this paragraph is a quote.

[Bethelarien]

I posted a closing post for Team A. Team B should have ample time to attempt an adequate reply.

Yay, may I make a request? I know your way of writing is a bit of a trademark, but it is incredibly difficult to sort through in a debate. It's actually quite aggravating. Would it be possible that the next time you're in a debate, you could actually type like the rest of us? Your prolonged and drawn out way of writing makes me want the throw the computer through the wall and disregard anything you say. :D Thanks.

[chrysophalax]

Ah, Beth. Ever try reading legalese? It makes Yay's distinctive style read like the old **** and Jane books for kids. You can't ask someone who actually talks the way he writes to not be that way, at least, not without completely draining his creative juices, IMHO.

[YayGollum]

Well, unless somebody from Team A, then Team B decides to write some more, it looks like we're done. I'll leave the creation of a judge's thread to the ithrynluin person, since I stole the honor of making the debate thread from him.

Bethelarien person ---> Whoops! I have gotten this request before and have attempted to tone myself down before. Very difficult. I'm sorry that you didn't suggest it towards the beginning of the debate. I would have attempted again. Why is it that most seem to have developed different voices for speaking and writing? My teachers in school always enjoyed the stuff that I turned in to them. But then, I went to horrible public schools in a horrible section of the horrible United States. That might explain my lack of conformity. :rolleyes: In an effort to preserve your computer, I shall stop writing. Garn, yo. Anyone willing to provide lessons in writing without a hint of personality?

[Snaga]

Why is it that most seem to have developed different voices for speaking and writing?

Interesting question. I think its partly because there is a convention for speaking and a convention for writing so because people tend to conform, they are conforming to different conventions! Actually, there isn't a single convention for either of course, but lots of different ones (ie regional turns of phrase, 'business-speak', conventions for academic writing etc). A good reason for them to be different is that when you are talking to people in person you can use body language, changes in inflection, facial expressions etc to convey far more. If you write just as you speak, you lose 90% of what you convey. So people use a different style to try to make up the difference, I guess.

[YayGollum]

Makes sense. I know that plenty of people were confused or offended by lots that I wrote here before I started sticking these little smilie things in my posts. It is a bit more difficult without them. But oh well. I usually attributes changes in speaking and writing to lying or a lack of confidence. Because I am composed primarily of large gobs of pure evil, probably. Hm? That human was speaking a lot more casually when I spoke with him last. Now that he's writing me a letter, I am observing a larger vocabulary. Am I supposed to be impressed? Ack! Is it even the same person? The voices don't match! *suspicious eye darting* I could understand a change in voice for speaking to different sorts, even though it is difficult for me to change for anybody (I am not good in interviews :rolleyes: ), but what is the point behind people in a casual setting using one voice for speech and another for writing with each other? Merely a habit that they developed for one of those reasons or another? oh well. Creepy, in my opinion. *hides* :rolleyes:

[Snaga]

I guess there are lots of creepy people about then! As opposed to those us composed of pure evil. I never had you in that bracket, but... welcome to the club!:D