Similarities between Melkor and Feanor

[baraka]

Melkor and Feanor. Are they so different? Let´s see: Melkor was the most powerful of all the Valar and Feanor was in many ways the mighiest of all the children of illuvatar. Is it their desire for more knowledge and prestige that led them to their fates.
Is Melkor really a Vala, (I know he is a Vala) but he was different, he wanted to be more than we already was. I think the other Valar were content to be what they were.
Feanor an elf? Humm, his mother died when he was born, aren´t the elves supposed to be inmortal! He had a fire, a passion that drove him to be something more. His mind and hands were never at rest. I dont think that he was content in Vailnor, otherwise, he would not have been looking for new things. Look at the Vanyar, they were content with the light of the trees (isn´t that boring).

I´m not saying that their actions were not their fault, but are they that different.

I hope to see the comments of the member of this forum in this, to see if I´m not completely wrong.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

I think you have a point there, after all, like minds often strive against one another. They were the greatest of each of their races, and were both vanquished before the end of the first age.

[lilhobo]

thats not the real question i wouldnt believe, :D

Feanor had the imperfection of pride, and desire and greedy.........he came to ME and his folk mingled with men and passed on their imperfection to menkind and the fate of Numenor was sealed

[Curufinwe]

I can't help but feel this is an insult upon Feanor's behalf. He was the Greatest Elf, Melkor was the Greatest Valar. They were both corrupted in ways by a fire in their hearts. But Feanor was only corrupted because his father had died and he was practically everything to him So he really was out for revengeance more than anything.

[lilhobo]

NO, not a slight agaisnt Feanor per se..........but Tolkien gave the Eldar so much "human" frailty that you cant help but guess at what was going to happen to the the Numenorians as a close relations

[4th Age Scribe]

Feanor was filled with the lies of Melkor. Were it not for the lies, and seeds of discontent sown by Melkor, Feanor never would have "fallen", or become victim to his own folly as he did.

Without Melkor loose in Valinor at that time, I believe that place would have retained its integrity and remained "sane".

[lilhobo]

anyone can have integrity and sanity but what would have happened when he is tempted and is put to the test

i would guess Feanor failed :(

[Curufinwe]

The lies of Melkor? Feanor absolutly hated Melkor and his lies how could he of been overthrown by the words of Melkor into evil?

[Lorien]

actually though feanor didnt listen to the lies they did work its said so in the sil but still i believe that even if melkor hadnt been around feanor would've done 'something' cause he had the "fire" inside of him.....

[Curufinwe]

Yeah the fire thingy , Were the hell did that really come from? No other elf was able to do it so why was he really so special? Just because his mother gave him all these special abilities by giving up most of her life. I think Tolkien meant for this fire which consumed his body when he died to be somthing quite extrordinary and Powerful in meaning.

[Flame of Utumno]

I don't think you could easily compare Feanor with Melkor. I tend to see Feanor as the greatest victim of Melkor, or from another angle, Melkor was most successful in hurting Feanor, his family, as well as everyone else closely linked to Feanor ie. the rest of the Noldor etc. It is due to the success of Melkor's evil that Feanor and his children had become so corrupted to the point that Feanor became somewhat evil in his own right.
It is more due to the evils of Melkor rather than malice on the part of Feanor.

[baraka]

Originally posted by Flame of Utumno
I don't think you could easily compare Feanor with Melkor. I tend to see Feanor as the greatest victim of Melkor, or from another angle, Melkor was most successful in hurting Feanor, his family, as well as everyone else closely linked to Feanor ie. the rest of the Noldor etc. It is due to the success of Melkor's evil that Feanor and his children had become so corrupted to the point that Feanor became somewhat evil in his own right.
It is more due to the evils of Melkor rather than malice on the part of Feanor.

I don´t think that the comparision would be easy, but there are certain elements in place.
Both were the greatest of their race, they were not content with what they were, and they were willing to do whatever it took to gain their desires. (In the case of Curufinwe even the slaying of fellow elves).
It´s true that Melkor corrupted Curufinwe, but there was something in him that was very different than the other elves.

[Feanor]

Yes there are certain similarities, but there are many differences as well. Not minor differences but important ones.

Melkor CHOSE to be evil, he desired to be the supreme ruler and have all obey him. He was jealous of Eru.

Feanor was never content to rest on his laurels, but that did not mean he was evil. He was incredibly gifted and talented and used his genius to further enrich the world. Genius wasted is a tragedy. I don't recall him ever being jealous of Eru or the Vala. If he desired greatness or renown it was only through the results of his endeavors and labours.
Melkor desired greatness and power over all else. He didn't love or create beauty as Feanor did.

Melkor was in a benign environment and yet he chose his evil ways. Feanor's situation was not benign. He was a VICTIM of powers beyond his control. The creative fire of his spirit was transformed into a destructive fire through the evil seeds sown by Melkor.

His desire for the silmarils, his suspicions of his brother and the other Vala: these thoughts were all put into his head by Melkor.

People will say, well Feanor was being tested and he yielded to temptation so its his own fault. That's so ridiculous!
A real world analogy to demonstrate this ridiculousness:

The government (Eru) wants to reduce the incidence of violent acts in its country. It identifies and targets certain individuals who are likely to commit these acts- not due to the past history of those said individuals mind you or from real or implied threats, but from the results of a psychlogical profile that pinpoints v strong willed, independantly minded , intelligent, determined individuals(Feanor)
It then sends the CIA (Melkor) to murder said individual's father (Finwe) and to steal that person's most treasured possessions (silmarils). It also spreads rumours and halftruths that makes indiv family/friends look like they were conspiring w the gov't.

Government (Eru/Manwe) then sits back and watches to see if indiv acts out violently or not and if so punishes him!

To me it seems that the gov't is immoral for planning such an act, the CIA is evil for carrying out said plan and the indiv is a hero placed in a situation beyond his control. Any violence on his part is almost expected! Mistrust and contempt of govt is expected!

[Lord Melkor]

Well great minds think alike! ;) I didn`t want to be the slave of Eru, Feanor refused to be the slave of Valar.

[Eol of Doriath]

Feanor an elf? Humm, his mother died when he was born, aren´t the elves supposed to be inmortal!

This is a little off topic, but elves are not immortal. They are predisposed to death either by death to wounds or to trauma. They just cannot die from sickness. Example would be that Maeglin fell off over the edge of a cliff and died much as his father.

Melkor and Feanor are simliar as they both strived to be the best and always wanted more. They were both anrrogant and prideful.

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Eol of Doriath


This is a little off topic, but elves are not immortal. They are predisposed to death either by death to wounds or to trauma. They just cannot die from sickness. Example would be that Maeglin fell off over the edge of a cliff and died much as his father.

Melkor and Feanor are simliar as they both strived to be the best and always wanted more. They were both anrrogant and prideful.


Let say they were alike in smoe ways eg. greed, greatness of kind and unlike e.g name, kind, feanor never meant any harm to others ( he was pushed for his lust 4 the silmarils) . Let say that M.E wouldn't be the same without them.

[Curufinwe]

Another similarity may be that they in there own rights where the main characters of the book, even though you cant really say there were main characters they really pushed the book along.

[Tyaronumen]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow



Let say they were alike in smoe ways eg. greed, greatness of kind and unlike e.g name, kind, feanor never meant any harm to others ( he was pushed for his lust 4 the silmarils) . Let say that M.E wouldn't be the same without them.


hmmm... Feanor never meant to harm others? I definitely do not agree with that statement, my friend. I feel that Feanor's leading the kinslaying at Alqualonde, as well as his abandonment of the people of Fingolfin upon his arrival in Middle-Earth, demonstrate clearly his intentions. While he did not explicitly seek to cause hurt to those whom he hurt, he certainly did take his actions that caused harm QUITE deliberately and knew that harm would result.

(his abandonment of Fingolfin was harm whether Fingolfin returned to Valinor or took the Helcaraxe, IMHO)...

This is, IMHO, very similar to Morgoth... in that Morgoth didn't start out as an 'evil' being either -- he just had this incredible urge to create on his own and finally (because of the (social) isolation experienced in the Void) got twisted around to thinking that his plans and ideas were the only ones worth pursuing... very very similar to Feanor in that respect, again IMHO.

[Eol of Doriath]

I fully agree with ya! That is why Morgoth tried to communicate with Feanor as much as he did. They had a similar thoughts and reactions to their thoughts.

I thought it was interesting that at one point that he turned Morgoth away, he was even the one who coined Melkor's name, Morgoth. Though I may be wrong.

[Tyaronumen]

No Eol, you are correct... and Morgoth definitely saw a lot of himself in Feanor -- there were a lot of similarities between the mightiest of the Valar and the mightiest of the Eldar.

Note that just because they were the mightiest does not mean that they were the most skilled in arms, warfare and tactics.

Obviously, Eonwe was the mightiest of the Ainur in terms of arms, etc. while Fingolfin was the mightiest of the Eldalie in terms of arms. :)