The Mystery of the Ring at the Barrow Downs

[Ancalagon]

Ok, I have been looking through a number of chapters to try and answer my own question, and I can't seem to find an answer.

Frodo, up until the Barrow-Downs had always kept his ring on a chain, but never around his neck. Each reference made to him removing the ring was always from a pocket, and always attached to a chain. Initially, when the group had been captured by the Barrow-Wights I guessed all of them had had their clothes removed and had been dressed in white. Naturally, if this had been the case, Frodo would also have lost his clothes, and ALSO his ring. However, Frodo, upon re-reading the chapter, must not have been laid on the stone, adorned in trinkets and circlets and clothed in white gowns as Sam, Merry and Pippin were. Remember, Tom told them;

you won't find your clothes again

clothes are but little loss, if you escape from drowning

So, my question is; Why was Frodo not dressed in the same fashion as his colleagues, why were his clothes not removed and why did the ring not get lost with them?

I am sure someone has an answer to this little poser.

[Beorn]

Perhaps the Barrow-Wights were at one point, under the command of Sauron (after the Ring was made). When the Barrow-Wights found this ring on Frodo, they thought that he was Sauron, and left him as he was, so as to do nothing that might upset him.

Sam, Merry, and Pippin might have been adorned as they were because the Barrow-Wights thought that they were friends of Sauron, and therefore treated them well by giving them white clothes and circlets...

Of course, this leads to the question, "Wouldn't Barrow-Wights try not to anger Sam, Merry, and Pippin because odds are they are so powerful, being friends of Sauron?"

Well, that I don't know...As you can see from the subject, this is only speculation, not an answer...

[Silme]

I've always had the impression that the Barrow-wight caught Merry, Pippin and Sam first, and Frodo well after them. Maybe that could have something to do with him not being stripped of his clothes?

[bunnywhippit]

All i can think of is that the Barrow-wights captured Frodo after Sam, Merry & Pippin (Frodo hears them shouting help! and stumbles around trying to find out where the noise is coming from) and then they just didn't get round to changing his clothes. :confused:

Although we can't know how long he was out cold for. But why then was he the one to wake up? The power of the Ring helping him to get out of there, because if he didn't then maybe the ring itself would be lost again? Oh wait.. the BW's sing a song about "and still on gold here let them lie, till the dark lord lifts his hand over dead sea and withered land". Could they have been keeping the ring safe till it was claimed by Sauron, or maybe they're just talking about waiting to have all the hobbits turned into something nasty.

Possibly Frodo waking up was the doing of a "good force" helping him in a time of need. I think Gandalf mentions something about there being "good forces as well as bad in this world". Although i can't find a quote right now... :(

EDIT: Look at that, it took me so long to write that up i missed two other posts. Mike, i never thought about the BW's thinking that Frodo was Sauron and the others as his friends. But then they do sing that song, referring that the dark lord is still to come. But still, why are they laid to rest with all this treasure? It's pretty odd. Maybe they thought the Hobbits wouldn't get away and just wanted to add them to their bounty..

[zoulou]

this whole chapter always seemed very strange to me and i never quite got it. excuse my ignorance in asking this, but first of all, what are barrow-wrights? are a kind of ghost thing? are they humanoid?

[Ancalagon]

The Barrow-Wights were tortured spirits of Angmar who fled to the Barrows and re-animated the bones of long dead Kings of Men. They were like a shadow, yet had a grip of iron and were cold as ice.

They only feared light and were masters of the dark. Once a Barrow was opened they were simply disperse like a mist, scattered and lost.

BTW; I am not so sure there was a long gap between Frodo's capture and that of Sam, Merry and Pippin. I would estimate a matter of minutes. So, why not treat him as they did the others?

[Bill the Pony]

Good question. My own (somewhat unsatisfactory answer) comes from a quote of Gandalf in 'Many Meetings' where he's talking to Frodo just after he woke up. He praises Frodo's strength and says that this strength was demonstrated in the Barrows, which was maybe the narrowest escape until then.
I interpreted that as that somehow (maybe because of the Ring, maybe because Frodo was 'the best hobbit in the Shire') Frodo was too strong for the wight's spell, and that's why he could wake up. The others, being weaker, did fall under the wight's spell. But I hope someone can come up with a better explanation...

(btw. I always interpreted the hand crawling in towards the sword lying over their necks, as coming in to chop the hobbits' heads off, which does not seem so friendly to me as clothing them in gold...)

[Bucky]

I believe that Frodo was indeed caught later.
Remember Frodo walks between the 2 stones, then hears the others yelling "help" & such?

I think some good points are made here.

It is stated in UT that The Lord of the Nazgul visited the Barrow-Downs & 'roused' the Barrow-wights, so, I doubt that if they had some contact with the former Witch-King that they would think Frodo was Sauron.
Also, doesn't FOTR say that 'a grip stronger & colder than iron seized him' when he was caught?
Is that how a Wight would treat Sauron?

>>>They only feared light and were masters of the dark. Once a Barrow was
opened they were simply disperse like a mist, scattered and lost.

Ancalagon: Where's that from?
It would seem to be at odds with Tom's stamping on the hand.
Also, wouldn't Tom's 'song' seem to indicate a 'power' was necessary to 'take out' a Barrow-Wight?

[TulKas Astaldo]

I think the first part of the book was written much more as a children's book, as The Hobbit was, rather than the fashion he took up toward the end of FotR. Then again, Frodo's chain could have been around his neck and then the end in his pocket so that nobody saw it...

[Beleg Strongbow]

Tom said to Frodo that he had a strong will. Frodo escaped from the wights and the others were caught. Thats why he could sing 4 bombadill and he got away just in time and that mean't they hadn't taken the ring yet. The others wren't as strong and wouldn't have made it through like frodo.

[Anarchist]

:confused:
This is a good question. I agree with Frodo being stronger than other Hobbits. I believe that the Barrow-wights got Frodo to do to him what they did to the others. When they realised that he woke up, the hand tried to kill him and then Tom came to the rescue.

[Ancalagon]

They only feared light and were masters of the dark.

You know Bucky, you have a very valid point there! Where exactly is it from? I do not rightly know. I always refer to my David Day, Tolkien Bestiary for quick reference, though ordinarily I would check HOME first as it is more recently scripted. Were Barrow-Wights destroyed by daylight?

I suppose one must start by looking at what actually made it into the FOTR and what was left out.

Originally, Barrow-Wights were similar to the Nazgul in Tolkiens mind, even related one could say. In 'The Return of the Shadow (HOME)', CRT noted some of Tolkiens scribblings whereby his intention was that the Nazgul were 'horsed' Barrow-Wights. Actually, that varied a number of times, for the Barrow-Wights who had attacked the group on the downs were horsed. It is intriguing to see the development of the story and the characters at the early stage. Though thankfully it did, for we may have had Bingo as Frodo and Trotter as Strider!!
However, as he progressed thru writing this chapter some significant changes were introduced that dispelled this idea. The problem is that there is no real reference to who they were in his earlier writings, nor does he elaborate on their demise which is what we really want.

Yet, the more I searched other references the more I began to understand that the truth is simple enough to find. This lies in Tom Bombadil's verse that he sings when he opens the roof of the Barrow;

Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!
Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing

It is exactly this that destroys the Wight, possibly combined with the command of Tom's words, but most likely the power of the clear sunlight that fills the tomb, the Wight becomes as a mist and its screams fade into unmeasureable distance. Why use magic where none is indeed required, Tom knew the power of the sunlight and that in itself was the power he needed for this task.

Regarding Tom stamping on the 'spider-like hand'. There is no clear reference that he does this. Stamping and Thumping could simply describe Tom's 'bull in a china shop' approach to searching the tomb for treasure. Because Frodo thought he saw it, does not mean that Tom stampped upon it. However, if he did, it may be that this 'severed' hand remained in shadow, while the main part of the body was destroyed by the flow of sunlight. This strengthens my belief that it was the Sunlight that destroys the wight more than the verse, if the verse was so powerful, then surely all, even the hand would simply have disappeared.

As always I am open to scrutiny by the members of this forum.

[Bucky]

Ok, I'll buy that explanation as it makes perfect sense.

Now, onto the 'Frodo is stronger than the others' theory:
If Frodo just woke up out of 'strength' that the other Hobbits didn't have, why wasn't he dressed like them?
This would indicate there hadn't been time to prepare him properly.

But, it could also indicate that he had some greater 'strength' to resist whatever the Barrow-wights had to do to prepare the Hobbits.
Remember, Merry saying "The men of Carn-Dum came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah, the spear in my heart"?
Apparently, Merry had been 'posessed' by the spirit of that man killed, or at least entered into a 'dream' he shared with the man's spirit.....

Beleg: Where does Tom say Frodo was 'stronger'?
I seem to recall him saying 'Don't go near any Barrows unless you have hearts of stone that never falter." (paraphrase)

Also, read where Frodo is caught.
Frodo: "Where are you?"
Wight: "Here.... I am waiting for you.
Frodo: "No". But he did not run away. His knees gave way & he fell to the ground....

It seems more of a timing thing in that Frodo was first in line & the others behind him were caught first.

[Lantarion]

I don't think it explicitly states that Frodo is not clothed "all in white". On page 190 in my book, 'Fog on the Barrow-Downs':
Tom: "Cast off these cold rags! Run naked on the grass, while Tom goes a-hunting!"
The hobbits ran around on the grass, as he told them.
And in the actual barrow, there is no explanation given of Frodo's attire, even though the clothes of the other three hobbits are described; "They were clad in white".
And as for Frodo's determination, also from 'Fog on the Barrow-Downs', p. 185:
But though his fear was so great that it seemed to be part of the very darkness that was round him, he found himself as he lay thinking about Bilbo Baggins and his stories, of their jogging along together in the lanes of the Shire and talking about roads and adventures. There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit, waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow. Frodo was neither very fat nor very timid; indeed, though he didn't know it Bilbo, (and Gandalf) had thought him the best hobbit in the Shire. He thought he had come to the end of his adventure, and a terrible end, but the thought hardened him. He found himself stiffening, as if for a final spring; he no longer felt limp like a helpless prey.
So his sudden courage was a psychological upburst, and not some strange surge of power brought on by the Ring. But I like the idea about the wights thinking Frodo to be Sauron, and sucking up to him, but I see now that it is most unlikely.

[bunnywhippit]

Pontifex, yes, it doesn't state that Frodo is not clothed all in white, but i think later on when some clothes arrive, only Sam, Merry & Pippin are mentioned.

*has to run downstairs to get her book (beneficial excercise i'm sure :rolleyes: )*


Merry, Sam and Pippin now clothed themselves in spare garments from their packs


So i just read that whole part of the story as Frodo bring still dressed in his original clothes, and ran about the grass with the others who were naked. Surely if Frodo had lost his clothes, it would be mentioned that he got dressed as well?

[Morwen]

Back to Ancalagon's question. It is my opinion that the Barrow wights may not have dressed Frodo in the same fashion as his colleages because the ring willed to remain with Frodo. The wights could not possibly take the ring to Sauron, and if it was left there in the barrow, its master might not find it. This could be another reason why Frodo wasn't affect by the barrow wight's spell. The ring needed a living thing that it could control, so it protected Frodo from the spell. And of course the wights could not travel out of the barrow in the sunlight as you have already surmized; thus it needed Frodo. And it could be, since they feard light, that they stayed away from the ring because of its brightness?

[Beleg Strongbow]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bucky
[B]Ok, I'll buy that explanation as it makes perfect sense.

Now, onto the 'Frodo is stronger than the others' theory:
If Frodo just woke up out of 'strength' that the other Hobbits didn't have, why wasn't he dressed like them?
This would indicate there hadn't been time to prepare him properly.

But, it could also indicate that he had some greater 'strength' to resist whatever the Barrow-wights had to do to prepare the Hobbits.
Remember, Merry saying "The men of Carn-Dum came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah, the spear in my heart"?
Apparently, Merry had been 'posessed' by the spirit of that man killed, or at least entered into a 'dream' he shared with the man's spirit.....

Beleg: Where does Tom say Frodo was 'stronger'?
I seem to recall him saying 'Don't go near any Barrows unless you have hearts of stone that never falter." (paraphrase)






Tom says something along the lines of you survived you must have a strong will. Thats what i said i didn't say he was stronger. Tom says that after he sings his song 2 the wights if i can remember rightly.

[Bucky]

>>>The wights could not possibly take the ring
to Sauron, and if it was left there in the barrow, its master might not find it.

That would seem to be in conflict with the fact that The Witch-king (or Lord of the Nazgul if you prefer) had just visited the Barrow Downs to 'stir up' the spirits.
The wights were sent by him to dwell there; they must've been under his power & authority.
I'm sure they'd be getting checked for an update in the near future if the Hobbits didn't reappear on the road near Bree.


>>>Tom says something along the lines of you survived you must have a strong
will. Thats what i said i didn't say he was stronger. Tom says that after he
sings his song 2 the wights if i can remember rightly.

I just read it (albeit quickly) & I found Tom says nothing of the sort.
What Tom says to Frodo is 'You must help me bear them (out of the barrow)"

[Halasían]

Now here is a question worth pondering! It is strange but I always wondered this same thing, and just wrote it off in my mind as the fact the evil knew Frodo had the Ring and didn't touch him so readily.

[chrome_rocknave]

Why would Frodo get naked with the other hobbits unless he had been wearing one of the white robes also?