Question about the Necromancer

[Tao]

I know this may sound kind of stupid, but I have a question about the Necromancer. First of all, if the Necromancer is in fact Sauron, then why was he destroyed (or at least accounted for at that time) so easily? I mean if you think of how much of a fight he put up in LotR, then you think he'd play a bigger part in The Hobbit...Maybe it's because Tolkien didn't know what his next writing was going to be about, or maybe the Necromancer didn't have enough time to prepare... Another thing that is less important is this: Which name do you like better, 'The Necromancer' or 'Sauron'? I personally prefer Sauron, but I'm sure someone likes Necromancer.



By the way, ssgrif, have you finished LotR yet? I haven't, but I almost have...

[Harad]

The Necromancer is a good name for the Hobbit but Sauron is better for LOTR.

Sauron feinted retreat as the Necromancer to establish his real HQ in Mordor and to disguise his intentions to the Council. He wasnt ready to fight openly at that time. He was still looking for the Ring.

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Harad
The Necromancer is a good name for the Hobbit but Sauron is better for LOTR.

Sauron feinted retreat as the Necromancer to establish his real HQ in Mordor and to disguise his intentions to the Council. He wasnt ready to fight openly at that time. He was still looking for the Ring.


That is right.

[Úlairi]

:D :D :D And if you remember, everyone KNEW who Sauron was, now as his loyal servant I know this! If Gandalf had said to Bilbo:

"Don't go past Sauron," instead of "Don't go past the Necromancer"

Than the news would have spread like wildfire and Gandalf also didn't know that it was Sauron in Dol Guldur. I prefer Sauron personally but 'THE NECROMANCER' sounds pretty cool too!!!:D :D :D

[Elanor2]

When the Necromancer set his headquarters in Mirkwood, nobody knew who he was. They thought that it might be one of his servants, perhaps a Nazgul. Gandalf went to investigate and found out that it was Sauron himself. He rescued Thrain then, and got the map for Thorin.

As for Sauron, his fortress in the Mirkwood was a trap, with himself as the bait. While he attracted attention to himself, the Nazgul were reinforcing Mordor. A feint that worked.

Now, I have always thought very strange that between the discovery of the Necromancer's identity and the establishment of the White Council to throw him out passed many years. Gandalf himself says that it took him years to find Thorin, and even more to set up the expedition to the Lonely Mountain. Yet, the White Council happened at the same time than Bilbo and the Dwarves' trip. Why did it take them so lond to react?

Elanor2

[Grond]

Elanor2, the answer to your questions lie in the Unfinished Tales. It speaks of the White Council and it's forming and how Saruman was appointed the head. He was the one who persuaded the White Council not to openly attack the Necromancer but to play a waiting game.

This was done very selfishly on Saruman's part. He had figured out that the Necromancer was indeed Sauron and wanted to make sure he stayed close so that he would be able to kepp tabs on him. At this time, Saruman was searching dilgently for the Ring near the Gladden Fields.

I haven't reread the passages in the last few months so all of what I say may not be wholly accurate but I think it is close. :)

[ssgrif]

I have to agree with Harad on this one.

For the Necromancer to disappear and then reappear as Sauron in the LOTR was a very devious move!

the Hobbit was much more of a lighter weighted book compared to the LOTR, I feel that the use of Necromancer was a good one, even though I feel Tolkien didnt have "Sauron's" whole life laid out in his head at that point.

Oh and Tao, yes I have finished the LOTR, I finished it a few months ago, went on to read the Hobbit, and now I'm rereading the FOTR, currently sat Lothlorien chatting to Galadriel...

[Legolam]

Oooh, I've just read that bit in UT about half an hour ago!

Grond was right (of course!) about Saruman being selfish. He didn't want to attack Sauron because he thought it might be easier to find the ring for himself if he knew what Sauron was up to. But when he found out that the ring was supposedly in the Gladden Fields (not realising that Gollum had taken it into the Misty Mountains 500 years before), Saruman decided that it was too risky to let Sauron keep searching round there, and finally agreed to Gandalf's plan to oust Sauron from Mirkwood.

90 years had past since the idea was first mooted by Gandalf, so Saruman waited a long time. Even then he was treacherous. Also, when they first discovered that there was a Necromancer in Mirkwood, they thought it was the Chief Nazgul.

[Bucky]

>>>Gandalf went to investigate and found out that it was Sauron
himself. He rescued Thrain then, and got the map for Thorin.

Actually, Thrain died in Dol Guldur.
Gandalf says "I tried to save your father, but it was too late. He was witless ("you're father could not remember his own name") & wandering, & had forgotten everything but the map & the key".

I also believe it's stated in not only UT, but Appendix B, 'The Tale of the Years' that Saruman delayed attacking The Necromancer.....

[Elanor2]

>>>Actually, Thrain died in Dol Guldur. <<<

You are correct Bucky. 'tried to rescue' would have been more accurate, of perhaps just simply 'found'.

[Tao]

Ok, thanks everyone. This really helps a lot. 8)

[Úlairi]

Also, minor point here. When Thrain II was captured, Sauron took one of the seven Dwarf Rings that Thrain owned. It was also believed that the ring that the ring Thrain had was the first one forged out of the seven.