View Full Version : Music of FotR
Varda
03-20-2002, 06:16 AM
I think one of the best aspects of the movie is the music composed by Howard Shore. Not only is it an awesome score, but it relates to the feeling of LotR so well. Every time I hear it, (which is pretty much every other night) I relive the movie.
Anyway, I play the bass clarinet and I was looking for the sheet music because I'm dying to play it. If there are any more music-lovers out there who know anything about the availability of the score for the movie--please help
ReadWryt
03-20-2002, 06:28 AM
Alas, at this time only the song by Enya is available on sheet music. After looking about extensively I was unable to find it available from any distributors, which leads me to believe that it is about to be released. The link to it on Warner Brothers Publishing is HERE (http://www.warnerbrospub.com/store/product.asp?upc=PVM02005&type=print&mscssid=6CVK2G3NC9508L4B67U6KHEKPA388W8E)
Keep checking back there, popular scores eventually make it out on Sheet Music in some form or another. I remember sitting for hours with the music for themes from Star Wars at the organ plugging away for hours on end...
The URL for the site is http://www.warnerbrospub.com/ .
Varda
03-20-2002, 06:48 AM
Thanks
Peter of the Trees
03-20-2002, 07:58 PM
I agree Varda Although I love the movie , the music is probably the thing that captures the mood of Middle Earth for me . Its one of the most moving pieces I've heard in ages and although the themes are repeated they vary and echo in subtle ways and tell the story leaving you to create your own visuals like you said . I'd be very interested to know if Shore and the LPO are planning a concert maybe at the albert hall , that would be amazing . The Fanfare at the end of the flight to the ford has had me in tears a couple of times lol - its as though all the elf hosts of old are willing Bruinen to rise up .
Apparently the extended DVD will have new extra music on it wow . Cant wait , and me an old Punk Rocker lol .
Niniel
03-22-2002, 10:08 AM
I bought the CD even before I had seen the movie, and I listen to it almost once every day for the last 3 months (does that sound a bit freaky? I do of course other things as well while listening). A film critic in a newspaper said that he hated the music, well I'd say he knows nothing about music or something!
ReadWryt
03-22-2002, 07:13 PM
I thought that Shore did more stealing from himself then Williams, and that the score was repetative and lacked inspiration from the actual story, but was more inspired by the actions. As a score I felt it worked quite well, but if I had to hear the same theme again by the end I was going to scream...
Peter of the Trees
03-22-2002, 10:05 PM
I see what your saying about the repetitive themes Read I felt the same especially at my first viewing when I was actually disappointed with the score , try listening to the soundtrack on its own while reading any middle earth stories and youll appreciate it more . The mood is darker than at first perceived and the recurring themes become more of a battle between good and evil than simply a repetition .
Originally posted by ReadWryt
I thought...that the score was repetative and lacked inspiration from the actual story, but was more inspired by the actions.
I would only agree on a few tracks: The Black Rider, Flight to the Ford, and The Bridge of Kazhad Dum. Those tracks contained a lot of 'action inspiritaion' while most of the rest was 'story inspired.' Just to clarify meanings: The 'story inspired' stuff is certainly matched to action but it stands on it's own as a piece of music whereas the 'action inspired' stuff really only fully works if you picture what's going on at the point in the movie.
For my money the Lorien/Great River/Amon Hen/Breaking of the Fellowship 'suite' just can't be beat. There are a lot of great parts here and there in the other tracks but these 4 are just excellent through their entire length.
Thorin
03-24-2002, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by ReadWryt
I thought that Shore did more stealing from himself then Williams, and that the score was repetative and lacked inspiration from the actual story, but was more inspired by the actions. As a score I felt it worked quite well, but if I had to hear the same theme again by the end I was going to scream...
Actually, RW, a common theme that runs through the soundtrack is commonplace in many soundtracks (I think Titanic and Braveheart). I think that it is a good idea.
My favorite tracks are 13-18. They are haunting and in inspiring. I am a musician and the more I listen to the structure of the music, the more I can't fathom how Shore got passed over for any previous awards. It is structurally impressive and an incredible feat of ingenuity. I sure hope it wins an Oscar. I especially love the choral chanting.
Anyway. Possibly this is in my CD but I'm too lazy to look at it. Does anyone know what the chorus is chanting on that re-occuring theme through tracks 3, 5-8? DA DA.....DA DAAAAA DA?
ReadWryt
03-24-2002, 05:46 AM
Yeah...well. At least John Williams creates themes for individual characters...This had the "Whispy Psudo-celtic theme written to be the "Best Song" nominee", the "Scary-angry dark battle music" and the "alltogether too cute Hobbit music that is merely a variation on the first theme with Tin Whistle.". I listened to the CD again today and, although head over heels better then the music from the Bakshi score which sounded like an orchestra trapped in someone's closet and far more repetative, I still felt slighted by the absence of a LOVE THEME or Frodo's Theme. One would really think that the fantastic love between Aragorn and Arwen would have rated it's own theme, but alas I really didn't hear anything different then what was on the rest of the score.
I am a fan of Shore, don't get me wrong...some of the best stuff he did was done for Chronenburg ...Videodrome, although sparsely orchestrated, was actually an incredible score...and his job on the music for the early Saturday Night Live was great! Not just the modern stuff but the music that was thematic parody of Movie Music was stand up work. (Besides, who could hate the guy who wrote the "Spud Beer" music?)
Originally posted by ReadWryt
One would really think that the fantastic love between Aragorn and Arwen would have rated it's own theme, but alas I really didn't hear anything different then what was on the rest of the score.
Ever notice a little track called "Aniron - Theme for Aragorn and Arwen?"
Originally posted by ReadWryt
At least John Williams creates themes for individual characters...One would really think that the fantastic love between Aragorn and Arwen would have rated it's own theme, but alas I really didn't hear anything different then what was on the rest of the score.
It's got individual themes for each of the following:
Frodo, Hobbits, The Black Riders, The Fellowship, Arwen, Arwen & Aragorn, The Ring, Saruman's Troops, Sauron, Gollum, Galadriel, Temptation from the Ring, a Journeying type theme and one more I can't quite name...maybe a prophecy theme.
John Williams in the original Star Wars had fewer recurring themes (Rebel Fanfare, The Force, Leia, Death Star...that's about it.)
Legolam
03-24-2002, 09:21 PM
I have to admit that when I first saw the movie, I was expecting to be bowled over by the music, and wasn't. To be honest, I didn't really remember any of it. I told this to my boyfriend, and he suddenly got very scared, because (unknown to me) he'd bought me the soundtrack for my Christmas.
But then, I saw the movie again, and listened to the soundtrack loads (great for revising to by the way), and I now think it is great both as a soundtrack and as a stand alone CD. I think maybe the film just held my attention far too well for me to listen to the music properly! :)
Hawkblaze
03-25-2002, 12:41 AM
I thought the main theme (the trumpet fanfare in the very begginning of track 13) was perfect. The funny thing is that the Hobbit theme kind of "leads in" to the main theme. I thought he overused the chorus too much, it seemed like they said the same thing over and over again. If you want to hear more cool music *sets up impenetrable force field around himself to block thrown tomatoes* pick up the Harry Potter soundtrack. Williams is the master. I love the way he builds an almost inumerable amount of themes and then brings them all together in one track (Hedwig's Theme). I think the best track on that CD is the Chess Game.
ReadWryt
03-25-2002, 01:44 AM
...never mind the fact that at least three of the "Themes" are the exact same theme with different instrumentation...
Originally posted by ReadWryt
...never mind the fact that at least three of the "Themes" are the exact same theme with different instrumentation...
Wrong again. Every one of the themes I listed above are absolutely distinct. NOT just variations with different instrumentations. I can prove this if you still don't agree but it'll take some serious time to get everything together.
Okay, I went ahead and did it. Get the attachment of zipped Real Player files for each of the themes.
Since the size limit is like 400KB I broke it into two - get the rest in the next post.
Be sure to save as a .zip.
btw - there is no 'prophecy' theme. I was double counting the ring theme.
Here is part two of the zipped file of Real Player encoded themes.
be sure to save as .zip!
Peter of the Trees
03-25-2002, 12:55 PM
On the theme of John Williams - he is undoubtedly a great composer his track record speaks for itself ; but did you really want TLOTR to become star wars ? Shore has managed to create a soundtrack both dark and subtle enough for middle earth ; could Williams have done this as well ? I personally think not . We'd have ended up with Indiana Gandalf and the Temple of Sauron . I'd have picked Elfman over Williams and made him live in a wood for a year .
Thorin
03-25-2002, 06:06 PM
Well, it won it! And deservedly so!
I like what Shore did...He went and talked about how it was to make music from the WORDS of Tolkien...not the great, fantastic imagination of Jackson.
Unlike the rest of the winners, he gave credit where credit was due.
Based on this, Read Wryt, you can see why the love theme from Aragorn and Arwen wasn't vamped up like some soap opera. It never existed in the real story of LoTR (except for the appendix). Of all people, you should be glad that Shore never centered his music on this....
Way to go Shore!
PS: For all you Christians out there....Does the main theme make you think of "This is My Father's World" everytime you hear it like me?
Originally posted by Thorin
Based on this, Read Wryt, you can see why the love theme from Aragorn and Arwen wasn't vamped up like some soap opera. It never existed in the real story of LoTR (except for the appendix). Of all people, you should be glad that Shore never centered his music on this....
I still don't get what you're refering to. Arwen and Aragorn had one love-type-scene alone together and they played the love theme (Aniron). This is as full-blown as it gets in any movie. I suspect we'll hear Aniron in some form again in TTT and ROTK when Arwen and Aragorn are together.
Originally posted by Thorin
PS: For all you Christians out there....Does the main theme make you think of "This is My Father's World" everytiime you hear it like me?
That's Frodo's theme btw, and yes, at first it did. Now "My Father's World" reminds me of Frodo's theme!
ReadWryt
03-25-2002, 06:34 PM
Ok, after giving more then a cursory listen, which is actually what any score should only have to have seeing as it was written to only have a cursory listen that is secondary to the Dialog and Action, I realize that I was wrong. There are 67 different themes in the score.
My problem was that so much of the score are reprisals of the Fanfare and "May it be" that it all started to sound like that alone. There is no "Hobbit Theme", it is "May it be" with tin whistle for instance...So I was wrong and spoke without having listened critically.
Originally posted by ReadWryt
Ok, after giving more then a cursory listen, which is actually what any score should only have to have seeing as it was written to only have a cursory listen that is secondary to the Dialog and Action, I realize that I was wrong. There are 67 different themes in the score.
Cursory listen should be all that's required? You think movie music should lack depth?
Originally posted by ReadWryt
There is no "Hobbit Theme", it is "May it be" with tin whistle for instance...So I was wrong and spoke without having listened critically.
Sorry, "May It Be" and the "Hobbit Theme" are distinct. They may share a few notes at the beginning but they are not the same themes. Clear evidence of this is the fact that Howard Shore is not credited in the writing of "May It Be."
I appreciate you admiting your error though, however backhandedly it was stated.
Varda
03-26-2002, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by Niniel
I bought the CD even before I had seen the movie, and I listen to it almost once every day for the last 3 months (does that sound a bit freaky? I do of course other things as well while listening). A film critic in a newspaper said that he hated the music, well I'd say he knows nothing about music or something!
I listen to it almost every night also. It is the perfect background music for anything, because it is not too imposing, but when certain parts come up, it makes you think of LotR
Varda
03-26-2002, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by Legolam
I have to admit that when I first saw the movie, I was expecting to be bowled over by the music, and wasn't. To be honest, I didn't really remember any of it. I told this to my boyfriend, and he suddenly got very scared, because (unknown to me) he'd bought me the soundtrack for my Christmas.
But then, I saw the movie again, and listened to the soundtrack loads (great for revising to by the way), and I now think it is great both as a soundtrack and as a stand alone CD. I think maybe the film just held my attention far too well for me to listen to the music properly! :)
I also didn't notice the music at all throughout the movie the first time I saw it. I got the soundtrack for Christmas, and I wasn't so sure about it. Then I listened to it and realized it was excellent and the third time I saw the movie I really began to realize where the music fit in with everything.
Varda
03-26-2002, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by Thorin
Well, it won it! And deservedly so!
I like what Shore did...He went and talked about how it was to make music from the WORDS of Tolkien...not the great, fantastic imagination of Jackson.
Unlike the rest of the winners, he gave credit where credit was due.
Based on this, Read Wryt, you can see why the love theme from Aragorn and Arwen wasn't vamped up like some soap opera. It never existed in the real story of LoTR (except for the appendix). Of all people, you should be glad that Shore never centered his music on this....
Way to go Shore!
Damn right!
ReadWryt
03-26-2002, 08:58 AM
Bahahaha! I typed 67 when I meant to type 6! Oh well...Maybe I should spell out single digits from now on.
As for Williams only writing "Rebel Fanfare, The Force, Leia, Death Star"...lest you forget two of my favorite themes "March of the Little People" and the "Trash Compactor" themes, both unique...as was the Fanfare at the end when they were receiving their medals. The last I remember distinctly because I thought to myself how much it sounded like Tchikovski's 5th Symphony instead of the Main Theme (Rebel Fanfare). Luke's theme is nice as well, the use of the bittersweet french horns as Luke watches the double sunset...thinking back on it almost makes me forgive him for having written "Yub yub" for the end of Jedi...But therein lies his failing in my opinion. I was not supposed to notice similarities to other composers or the instrumentation being used. The music should not have overpowered the storytelling at all...
As for Track 2, the Hobbits...Ok, so only 2/3s of it is May it be and the rest is a canticle that could be called a theme as much as Luke's theme in Star Wars, it being written in counterpoint to the Rebel Fanfare theme. I'm going to be ripping that track into an MP3 and mixing the two themes tomorow and hopefully I can show you how they are the same harmonic progression with different melodies and punctuation of phrasing. It really is uncanny and nice...
Originally posted by ReadWryt
As for Williams only writing "Rebel Fanfare, The Force, Leia, Death Star"...lest you forget two of my favorite themes "March of the Little People" and the "Trash Compactor" themes, both unique...as was the Fanfare at the end when they were receiving their medals. The last I remember distinctly because I thought to myself how much it sounded like Tchikovski's 5th Symphony instead of the Main Theme (Rebel Fanfare). Luke's theme is nice as well, the use of the bittersweet french horns as Luke watches the double sunset...thinking back on it almost makes me forgive him for having written "Yub yub" for the end of Jedi...But therein lies his failing in my opinion. I was not supposed to notice similarities to other composers or the instrumentation being used. The music should not have overpowered the storytelling at all...
Originally posted by PRH
John Williams in the original Star Wars had fewer recurring themes (Rebel Fanfare, The Force, Leia, Death Star...that's about it.)
I said recurring themes! (I guess you could count the Jawa theme since it's used twice) Also, I forgot the most obvious one - the main theme (aka Luke's theme). What you call Luke's theme is actually the 'Force Theme.' The main title theme is also known as 'Luke's theme.' The 'Fanfare when they get their medals' is just a grand orchestration of the 'Force Theme.'
Also - I agree, the binary sunet used of the 'force theme' is possibly the best moment in all of the Star Wars music encompassing the 4 films.
ReadWryt
03-26-2002, 06:35 PM
Oh no it wasn't! Go back and listen again, it was a theme all unto itself. This is frustrating because I can hum both. The fanfare at the end is a completely different tune, and contains none of the minor chording of Luke's theme...
Oh I don't have to listen - most of that soundtrack is permanently imprinted on my brain, I spent so many hours listening to it.
Maybe we're talking about different parts? I'm talking about the main section of the Throne Room Fanfare. It is the same as the Force theme. You may have to be more specific.
Also, again - you refer to the Force Theme as Luke's Theme. Luke's Theme is the Main Theme and the binary sunset tune is the Force Theme.
ReadWryt
03-27-2002, 03:43 AM
I heard a chunk of the "Attack of the Clones" score today. About two thirds of the way through the "Imperial March" creeps in and sent chills through me.
Okay RW -
Binary Sunset and the Throne Room are the same theme -- the Force Theme.
listen (.zip file containing both versions)(sorry about the lo-res mono - gotta get the file small though):
ReadWryt
03-27-2002, 06:24 PM
Wait...the second track on the LotR CD is supposed to be The Hobbits. It's two thirds comprised of "May it be", but this is supposed to be "a theme" for the Hobbits, yet even though the fanfare in the great hall at the end of Star Wars contains some of another theme it is not a theme unto itself...I'll concede that there is a Hobbit Theme that contains some "May it be" if you will concede that the Fanfare, which has it's own melody and counterpoint, is a theme even though in the presentation it ends up containing some Force Theme...
This is the problem with Film Scores, especially ones like Randy Newman's for "Monsters INC.". They reflect action on the screen and so, unlike symphonies, change gears and themes often. I was listening to Monsters INC the other day and actually HEARD Tchikovski's 5th Symphony used...just a bit and quite purposely, in the vain of Carl Stahling's scores for the old W.B. cartoons in the 40's and 50's.
NO!
May It Be and the Hobbit theme are not at all similar! I don't hear it except for maybe the first 3 notes. And furthermore Howard Shore would've had another Oscar nomination (best song) and a credit on the CD if they were the same!
As for Star Wars - Are you actually suggesting that the two audio clips I provided are not the exact same theme? Those interspersed chords are just that -- chords that go along with the tune. They don't make it a different theme.
OR -- are you saying that what comes later in the Throne Room (after the Force Theme)(the 'softer stuff') is what makes it it's 'own theme?'
Thorin
03-27-2002, 07:22 PM
Sorry, RW, PRH is right.
The "This is My Father's World"-sounding theme which runs pretty much through the whole thing is not the same thing as Enya's "May it Be". Maybe as PRH says, the first three notes, but even that is stretching the boundaries of comparison.
What does Star Wars have to do with LoTR? I tell you, PRH, you sure do go off topic! First the semantics of "illogical" with baraka, and now Star Wars with Read Wryt! Whatsa matta witch-ou?? :D
RW brought up Williams I believe, now he keeps making weird claims about unique themes so I have to set it right!
As for baraka -- I was just messin' around with him...
btw Thorin - the 'My Father's World' theme is Frodo's theme, not the Hobbit theme. RW was comparing the Hobbit theme to May It Be (although he keeps refering to the Force Theme as Luke's Theme so I don't know...)
Peter of the Trees
03-28-2002, 12:50 PM
You blokes crack me up - I've had a lot of fun folowing this one , keep up the good work .(Simpley light blue touchpaper and retire to a safe distance ) .
The ball is still in RW's court.
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