TTT with a different name?!

[Shadowfax]

ARRRRGH! I just got off Tolkien online.com, where there is an article about how a group called "People Affected by September 11th" is trying to get PJ to change TTT's name! And that he actually considered it! How absolutely idiotic and assinine is that? Any thoughts?

[Captain Sparky]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
ARRRRGH! I just got off Tolkien online.com, where there is an article about how a group called "People Affected by September 11th" is trying to get PJ to change TTT's name! And that he actually considered it! How absolutely idiotic and assinine is that? Any thoughts?

Ignorance is alive and well and living in the 21st Century.

If PJ changes the name, I'm boycotting the rest of the movies. I wasn't that impressed with the first one anyway.

[Thorin]

If it was a totally brand new, original movie, I could understand justifying the name change....

However, it is Tolkien...The name was given over 50 years ago...It's meaning is fictional for two separate fortresses....If people can't make that distinction there is really something wrong.

Most of those people probably think that this whole trilogy IS PJ's original idea....:rolleyes:

[Talimon]

Stop feeding the flame... PJ has never seriously considered changing the name. And half of those 10,000 names are actually fake, while the other half are just arguments by fans over the petition.

[ReadWryt]

I suppose the next step is to force the News Media to stop reffering to the commerce portion of the Global Economy as "World Trade"...The W.T.O. should be petitioned to change their name as well...*Sigh* This just reinforces my strong belief that the Primary difference between Genius and Stupidity is that Genius has it's limits...

[Gloer]

I the trailer Gandalf is so clearly pointing out which two towers are ment by the title that there is hardly comparison. Unless of course the WTO towers actually WERE the Orthanc and Barad-Ur...interesting idea. Trade federations fighting against the republic in another movie...two towers are evil in the other. Is Hollywood trying to tell us something?

[Shadowfax]

Yeah, I guess it's just the fact that people can be SO ignorant! They did not even check to see what the book's title was! *snarl*

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Yeah, I guess it's just the fact that people can be SO ignorant! They did not even check to see what the book's title was! *snarl*

These are the same people who are amazed that they got the Fellowship of the Rings published so quickly after the movie was released.

RD

[Kit Baggins]

Oh god, I read about this. Someone's started a petition to get TTT renamed :rolleyes: . I mean, how stupid *are* these people :mad: ?

~Kit :rolleyes:

[ReadWryt]

Actually, MSNBC reported on the petition and thousands of Tolkien fans went in and made comments that whoever started the petition was nuts, so the people who started the petition took it down. I myself commented that they had damned better start a petition to make the WTO change their name so that it no longer contained the words "World Trade" due to it's obvious attempt to cash in on the events of Sept 11th... They gave up about the 200th time someone pointed out that Tolkien only WROTE about Time Travel and was not actually a practitioner of it when he wrote that book over 40 years ago...

[Talimon]

hehehe.

[highyo]

While we are at it, am i remiss in thinking that the two towers were not Barad-dur and Orthanc but the two towers seperated by Anduin, in what is now Minas Morgul and Osgiliath?

[Talimon]

Actually the two towers, according to one letter by Tolkien, were Orthanc and Minas Morgul. Tolkien kept it kind of obscure for the first few years following the release of the books, but finally it was found out that the the two towers were those two, due to the fact that that those are the two towers the story centers around. But people have put different interpretations on it, and I'm happy with PJ making it Orthanc and Barad-dur. Makes more sense, in a way.

[Mu-phex]

I've been a massive Tolkein fan all my life, was read The Hobbit when I was six, read Lord of the Rings like 10 times during my teens, under the duvet with a torch, don't mean to bore you but you know I have a romantic attachment to the books, best ever written in my opinion.

For a variety of reasons I didn't get to see the film in the cinema, but I have it in the dvd player as we speak and I am very very excited! (yes it is pirate, and yes when it comes out properly I WILL buy it (currently have 5 diferent versions of the books)), bit I was wondering about this same thing in work.

I would understand them renaming it, I really would, I'm English, live in the U.K., went to California once, had a great time and realised that most people over there are a lot more in touch with their feelings than we are int he U.K.

It's just a name for gods sake, nothing is going to be done to the story if it is changed, and hell if it gets people into tolkein that haven't been before, and maybe wouldn't 'coz the name puts them off then thats a pity, hell even one convert must be worth it right?

We all know what it's real name is, so what does it matter what it says on the poster/packaging, if it makes a couple of people happier then so be it! (Or if it stops a couple of people who lost someone reliving the nightmare, or even provoking amemory, everytime they go past a poster/cinema then thats cool, why cause suffering where it's not needed people, just one person getting a twinge of pain cause of a filmname is just sooooooo stupid)

Sorry didn't mean to go on, but y'know.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Mu-phex
It's just a name for gods sake, nothing is going to be done to the story if it is changed, and hell if it gets people into tolkein that haven't been before, and maybe wouldn't 'coz the name puts them off then thats a pity, hell even one convert must be worth it right?

We all know what it's real name is, so what does it matter what it says on the poster/packaging, if it makes a couple of people happier then so be it!


Welcome to the forum, Mu-phex! If The Two Towers were a brand new, individually created movie, I could see changing the name out of respect. (Like Collateral Damage postponed it's release date)

However, this movie is based on a fictional book that was written over 50 years ago....A classic and an epic story whose towers are identified in a fantasy world....To complain about the name and wanting it changed is a bit of an overkill....No disrespect in anyway to the victims and families of WTC tragedy, but getting on with our lives and not allowing terrorism to dominate our society means not losing common sense and going witch hunting in the name of "sensitivity"....

[Mu-phex]

I agree so much!

I really do!

It's a name, that's all, I'd prefer it to be called "The Two Towers" (and if it is renamed I think it would only be in the states, probably be the two towers in the uk), point I was making was it's only a name, evrybody who is into the books knows the real name, everybody will still call it the two towers, but hell if you lost someone on Septembeer 11th and every time you pick up a magazine or pass a bill board or cinema you're gonna get it in your face again and it is going to cause you so much hurt, then why don't we as comapssionate people, and Tolkein fans, say well hell it's the same story, we know what it is, we know what's gonna happen, "SO WHAT IF THE NAMES CHANGED", if it stops one person reliving losing somone they care about every time they walk down the street and see the posters, if it gives that person a break then cool.

It's the name of a film for agods sake, one person happiness and well being is worth far more!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on people where is your compassion.

Oh and hello everybody nice to be here and meet you all!

[Lily from Bree]

I HATE THAT!!! Changing the name is stupid!! I found out who wrote the petition and his e-mail address and I sent him an e-mail about it. This is what I sent.


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Mr. Klerck,

This e-mail is from an avid Lord of the Rings and J.R.R. Tolkien fan, and I hope you will take the time to read it. I know that the whole of America has been affected by the tragedy of September 11th, and I give my sympathy to any who have lost a loved one in the attacks. But I think that it is going a bit too far to ask Peter Jackson to rename the Two Towers. In this attempt, the terrorists were trying to weaken us and make us lose our confidence in ourselves. If we go so far as to change the name of a movie that merely bears a resemblance to the name of the WTC, we are letting them exactly acheive their goal. We are letting them get us overly worked up and upset, and that is just what they want. Believe me. If the movie title offends someone, they don't have to watch it.

Next, this movie trilogy is taken from and based on the book trilogy the "Lord of the Rings", by J.R.R. Tolkien. Tolkien wrote the books in 1954-55, ten years before the WTC was planned or built. It was impossible for the books, at any rate, to have referred to the attacks, since they hadn't even happened yet. And thirdly, all three of the movies were completed before the 9/11 attacks, and they had already been named. Peter Jackson is only being faithful to the book series that has been named the greatest book of the century by several British and American polls. In the books, the Two Towers are the Tower of Orthanc, in which Saruman lives, and the Towers of Barad-dur, in which Sauron lives. These towers bear no resemblance to the WTC, and the name Two Towers is not even the exact name of the Twin Towers.

I, and all of my LOTR friends, sincerely beg you to reconsider sending the petition. Oh, as to the Return of the King, Tolkien also wrote that. He was a good Christian and the name refers to Aragorn, not to Jesus. He would not mock Jesus if he himself was a good Christian. I too am Christian and this book and movie series is beloved to me and many others. Please do not ruin it. Thank you for taking the time to read this e-mail.


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I'd appreciate if you guys reply to this.

[Landroval]

Along the same lines, I propose that the World Trade Organization change its name to the Planetary Barter Organization because families of the victims of 9/11 might be upset to see the words World and Trade. Perhaps we should have these words removed from all literature, advertising, etc. Lets have them removed from the english language while we're at it.

This PC **** has got to stop.

BTW, I am a proud American and was devastated by the attrocities committed against my country. But I WILL NOT let the terrorists win.

[Sam_Gamgee]

i think thats dumb the books have been around for 50 years. and if everything that was wrinting or made or drawn or what have you that had a sudden event that made it offensive to some people was just deleted then we would have no culture. if the title of the book was F america and the two towers of the world trade center i could see a contraversy. but its not so any1 who thinks that can shutup!!! and touching on landroval's comment. seriously you dont see oklahoma city removed from our language or vietnam or columbine. bad things happen. and they are mourned but simply trying to forget them and remove all the memory is doing more bad then good.

[Darth Saruman]

So what the heck should they call it?

"A Couple of Tall Linear Structures"?

[ReadWryt]

Kids, it's a dead subject. The petition was so rapidly filled with angry Tolkien fans that it dissapeared the day after MSNBC reported on it...

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Darth Saruman
So what the heck should they call it?

"A Couple of Tall Linear Structures"?

HAHAHAHAHAHA! That was great!

[ReadWryt]

Whoah! Now THERE is some rational thought...just because a few...and I do mean VERY FEW...people missguidedly started a petition that had 600 signatures in favor of the idea and, at the time it was taken off, over ten thousand screaming angry Tolkien fans voicing every concievable reason it was a dumb idea to even START the petition, now apparently ALL Americans feel "sorry" for themselves. I suppose that since Hitler was European we should not trust any Italians or Germans...

Perhaps we should all realize that A) the primary difference between Genius and Stupidity is that Genius has it's limits...B) There are idiots in every population and C) This is moot anyways because they shut down the petition these fools posted well over a month ago anyways...Geez!

[Earnil]

You know, long before that petition was started PJ actually said in an interview that he won't be changing the title of the movie because he knew the Tolkien fans would kill him.:D

Given the events of September 11 in which the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York were destroyed by hijacked jet planes, Jackson has admitted to the Chicago Sun-Times his qualms about the second film's title - the same as used for J R R Tolkien's novel. "It's true that I've thought about what that title means now," he said. "I just pray that by the time the second movie comes out, it won't cause any controversy."

Jackson said the book was 50 years old and he couldn't change the title - "Tolkien fans would kill us."

I can't supply a link to the full article since the article has since then been taken off the website I found it on.:)

[Talimon]

You know what's the funny part? Some Tolkien fans would sooner kill him for changing the title then for changing the plot. I find that amusing, in that it shows where said "fans" really stand.

[ReadWryt]

No, what's sad is that he thinks the Tolkien Fans would be more upset about changing the name then changing what he IS changing. I wonder what he thinks Tolkien fans would do if he added words to the Title the way he is inventing and shooting stuff that never WAS in the book?

[Talimon]

Well, I think if he changes the title then all Tolkien fans will be upset. By changing dialogue and events he keeps things controversial. The fact remains that fans still can't agree on where they stand on the movie. That leaves PJ in a good position, I think, esspecially considering how strong his vision is. Everyone is shaky about how things will work out while he is steam-heading right through it. Being that motivated is priceless.

[Fool of a Took]

I think all of this is totally unnecessary.
#1: The name change...Forgive me for going off topic here, but I need to to make my point: several Star Wars fans griped about the title of Episode Two to no end. When they finally saw it, the movie was great! It just proves that you can't judge a movie by what it is titled. The people who wrote & signed the petition need to learn this lesson.

#2: I am an American, but I still have to say that dwelling on the WTC disaster is really morbid and unnecessary. I express my sympathy to those who lost someone on that day. I was fortunate enough not to. But please: There is no reason to drag others down by making a pointless petition. An obsession with the event will not help. I think I am right in assuming that it is mostly adults who were involved with the petition. If I'm right, well... Adults should have learned by now how to deal properly with their grief. Making others conform to your want to lessen your pain is not the way to go. Sooner or later, these people will have to turn around and face their grief, instead of running from it!

#3: The petition got such a negative response thatits writers removed it from the 'net. I think people should stop griping about it...( Yeah, Pippin, you fool, say that right after you do that very thing... )

[ReadWryt]

Ok, quick clarification about this sad and abortive attemempt to get the name changed. It's been dead for a long time, but the actual wording of the stupid petition stated that this was "obviously an attempt to cash in on the horror and suffering on September 11th". That was the foundation of the whole rediculous thing. Never mind the fact that the book was written several decades before and never mind that the filming was in process for footage for the movie by that name years before the event, it's obvious that the only reason they decided to call the movie the same thing as this book by the name of The Two Towers was not because that is the TITLE of the story, but in actuality they thought that it was good public relations and a smart marketing move to rub THAT salt in the wounds of those hurt on September 11th because as we all know Sex doesn't sell anywhere near as well as Pain and Suffering.

It's over now. Thousands of Tolkien fans stepped up to bat and told these clowns that they should take their petition and find the appropriate oraface to store it away in for posterior..er, Prosperity! In other words..."Bad petition all gone now".

It amazes me that this thread is still active...heheheh

[Shadowfax]

hey, ReadWryt, I (this is completely off the subject) tried to vote for TTF at Tolkienworld, but I could not find where to. How does one do it?

[Talimon]

Let me play Devils advocate for a second.

[Devils Advocate]

While it is obvious that the film wasn't named after September 11, does that change the fact that it will still cash-in due to the implications of it's title? Whether intentional or not, the title of the film still has another meaning in 2002. The question here isn't whether the film-makers are trying to cash in on September 11. It's whether by maintaining Tolkien's title they will cause pain and hurt to the thousands of families of victims. PJ doesn't need to change the title, obviously. He's got the law (and an army of fans) on his side. The real question here is whether PJ has some sort of sympathy for victims of 9/11. PJ may dissapoint his fans by changing the title, and indeed he may make less money, but at least he will be known as the director who was willing to forsake the integrity of his movie to help heal the hurt of a nation.

[/Devils Advocate]

Seriously though, I find it amusing that people think by having closed down the petition the issue has all of a sudden dissappeared. It's merely lurking. This time it was probably some fans making a fake petition to garner some attention. Next time it will be an army of lawyers and the press. I have deep trust in PJ, but who knows. New Line might owe PJ some slack after having churned out such a finacially successful movie, but they still have the power to breathe down his back. I mean, I really hope that once everyone learns the true story behind the title no one will care, but things could turn out for the worst. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some official from the White House made some sort of announcement regarding his dissaproval with the title of the film.

The good news is that the new trailer makes things about as simple as they can get. I get the impression that every trailer will name the two towers. That should quickly settle peoples thoughts on the right side of the fence.

[ReadWryt]

...Oh sure, why do you think they created that crappy poster with Orthanc and Barad Dur on it...? How much harder can one beat the ignorant over the head with the fact that the World Trade Center has NOTHING to do with the title. But c`mon here, I mean...it's not like Sony editing out any image of the towers from "Spider-man", and it's not like Tolkien named the second book "Al Queda heroes strike back" or something like that. I mean, next they will be suing to get the emergency phone number changed from 911 to something else because it's disrespectfull of the date!

[Lily from Bree]

Hey, I never thought about the emergency phone number being 911. Hmmmm.....interesting. But yeah, it would be, like, dumb to change it.

[Ariana Undomiel]

I have heard the rumor and have actually seen the website where they are signing the petition to change the Two Towers title to a different name in order to be sensitive to those people affected by the events on September 11th. However, Peter Jackson has basically shown us that he has no intention of changing the title as he has already released a trailer with the title of The Two Towers and a poster with that title. So don't worry about it.

And for those people who think the name should be changed, that is really pathetic considering that the movie is taken from a book written over 50 years ago. Peter Jackson is just honoring Tolkien's choice, and he is not doing this to make a painful reminder for those who have suffered loss.

~Ariana