If you were Peter Jackson...

[Theoden]

I just want to know what people think... how would they put the movie together if they were directing the Lord of the Rings trilogy? What would they change? Who would they add? How would you guys do TT and RotK?


I would make the stay at Lothlorien longer and leave out the whole orc-out-of-goo scene in Isengard. I would try to show more of the realationships between the characters (like Gimli and Legolas, Gandalf and Aragorn, Sam and Frodo [although PJ does a pretty good job with them] and I might add the little scene with former Maggot and the mushrooms).

As for the two towers and the return of the king... I loved the book so much and I really wish that none of it would get cut, but more so, I hope that he doesn't add anything, although, from the previews, it looks like he will.

Let me know

[Talimon]

In terms of casting and the technicalities PJ has done more then I could have imagined, so I'd leave that the same. What I'd really change is some of the dialogue, though. There are some very witty lines from the book that I'd keep.

I'd have a bit more of the hobbits, singing perhaps. Explain Merry and Pippin. Have Strider talk to the hobbits in Bree for a couple minutes longer. Make Frodo oppose the Nazgul. Have more of Rivendell, in terms of Elrond and Elves singing. Some sunset shots of the Fellowship traveling south (I don't know why but I love these). WAY more of Lothlorien. I'd make it something like 20-30 minutes, from the moment they meet Haldir to the moment they go down the Anduin. This would be a time for developing the charachters. I love how he did Boromir, but there could be a lot of development for everyone else. Most important of these would obviously be Frodo, but Gimili's charachter could develop tremedously.

Other then dialogue and the changes I've mentioned I think the movie hits the main ideas head on. There's not a whole lot I'd change, or cut.

Considering that Lorien will be expanded greatly in the expanded version, I'll hold off judgement and see. I still have hopes that the movie will be perfected with that release.

[Gloer]

... a whole new approach.

I'd take Gollum as the hero.

We get to hear his narrative on how he got the ring and ranting about the thieves...
Then we get in to action!

We follow Gollums fear of Aragorn and the eloves and Sauron alike as he is captive.

Then the inner struggle between the nice Smeagol and evil Gollum.

And then finally the climatic ending:
Smeagol realises that...that Frodo has infact turned to evil side long before Barad-Ur! Sam didn't see it, only Gollum did. Frodo uses the power of the ring to dominate the poor Gollum. At that moment the cause is lost...h emust save the Middle-Earth and above all himself!

He if any was the only one who was strong enough to bear the ring... and destroy it obviously.

What do you think?

[Thorin]

Gloer, I could guarantee that FADs and NPWs would unite together to rant against your rendition!

What would I change? Sheesh.

I would have the whole Ford thing revamped, I would have Aragorn explain himself much much better in Bree. I would have Saruman more in for himself than siding with Sauron. I would cut the whole orcs from pods thing and spend much less shots of Orthanc. I would have the Fellowship being blindfolded and Gimli's haughtiness, rather than the foolish scene of Legolas raising his bow to other elves for no reason whatsoever. I would have made the Jerry Springer/Council of Elrond more like the book with much less of the book's history (which I did in my alternate screenplay).

I would have more of Lorien (which we can be expecting in the DVD release in November), revamp the Caradhras scenes from Boromir with the ring to Saruman bringing the mountain down :rolleyes: . Develop Merry and Pippin better (especially on the way to Bree), Extend and develop the trip from the Shire to Weathertop more like the book.

Then when I REALLY got started, I would......

[Talimon]

You wrote an alternate screenplay? Do you have a link?

[Thorin]

Yup....

www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=1504

I also have one on the first part of the Prancing Pony (before Aragorn talks to them in the room.


www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=1738

someone challenged me to make a better screeplay instead of whining about it, so I tried...:)

[Talimon]

I'd praise your scripts if I could call them yours, but since they are just editings of what Tolkien wrote I feel that the praise is slightly misdirected.

I don't need to tell you that what Tolkien wrote is good. But what perhaps would be more suitable would be to inform you that 1) Todays average audience would never relate to such language, and 2) Were the movie indeed written the way you wrote it, it would stretch to 4 or 5 hours and beyond.

Now personally these aren't issues to me, and I'd love to see more of Tolkiens language kept. Indeed, there are few lines that I'd cut, let alone change. But then again, how many non-Tolkien fans would enjoy such an adaptation? Not many, I presume.

There have been adaptations like the ones you outline, Thorin. Indeed, I have read numerous scripts of the movie that date back as far as 30 years. Many of them are pieces of genius, truly worthy of adaptation. But here's the problem. To stay true to the book one needs to include more dialogue and exposition. To do that you need more time. More time means more money, and more money means you need to make that money back. To make that money back you need less dialogue and less time. You also need more action.

You can probably see our dilema at this point. We are left with numerous choices:

If we make the movie long and true, then we won't get the kind of money we want and the movie will look cheap. We also won't get the actors we want, so it will look badly acted. With lines like the ones Tolkien wrote you need very good actors to make it sound convincing. Also the fact that it's set in a fantasy world makes the need for good actors necessary.

If we make the movie short and and untrue, we are most likely to make money, but then we'll have to cut a lot.


Of course, in the perfect world we'd make 3 long movies that were perfectly nourished and budgeted, that are released regardless of the money they make, and that have no creative constraints laid on them by those who fund them. But we'll sooner have world peace then get that done.

Here's why I think PJ has done an incredible job, Thorin. It's not because of the fact that he's stayed as true to the books as possible. It's because of the fact that he's held the perfect balance between getting the kind money this movie deserves and still holding true to the book. Scripts have been presented before to movie-making companies, but the companies have always strayed away because they felt the material wouldn't grab an audience. Now here comes PJ, with a script that both fans and non-fans can accept, and most importantly New Line loves. He's gotten the funding he needs, he's gotten the look he needs, and he's gotten the actors he needs.

You can't get everything, and you never will. It's just impossible. I'd love to believe that a perfect version of LotR could be made, but that's never going to happen. What I think we should do, however, instead of complaining about the empty inch of the cup, look at what's actually there. Look what actually made it onscreen. Take a moment realize that there is a LotR movie out there. And in the same moment, acknowledge the fact that it keeps 80-90% of the books events true. To me, this is just amazing. Other then the fact that I enjoy the movie on it's own, I think it's incredible just how true it has stayed to Tolkiens world. It's different, there's no doubt about that, but it's also incredibly close. I hope you can at least appreciate how much is actually there, and realize what could have been there, had say Disney gotten thier hands on this. shudder

[Thorin]

Well put and understandable....When I made my scripts, I intended to try and find a balance between time constraints and taking into account the movie limits but also remain truer to Tolkien then these scenes in the movie did....I understand the idea of having action so as not to get too boring, but when you really look at these scenes (with the exception of Gimli trying to axe the ring and the elf/dwarf kafuffle), there really wasn't much more action then what Tolkien had written....There was a lot less interesting and explaining dialogue that would have fleshed it out much better then PJ did....I made an attempt to try and bridge that gap...

Also keep in mind, as RW has been saying for a long time, that had PJ cut out much of his invented scenes and dialogue, he would have had the time to include truer to the book scenes and create a STORY behind the action....The movie really left me feeling empty as to what was really going on...In all fairness, I don't think anyone could capture all of that in a 3 hour movie, but the dialogue of the movie (not just the cheesy lines) seemed so empty and lacking the richness of Tolkien....I'm not sure that you would need to include the exact "English" style of the dialogue (though PJ did in many places and it worked quite well). I found this emptiness present especially from the Shire to Rivendell scenes....Out of all the scenes, they needed the most fleshing out.....Moria to Amon Hen (with the expectation of more Lorien in the DVD version) faired quite well...

All I did was to try and take the two most empty sections and put my "money where my mouth is"...I was also going to work on a fuller version of when Aragorn talks to all the hobbits

Minus that great line, "Let him go or I'll have at you, Longshanks!" that Sam utters....:rolleyes:

[Talimon]

Keep in mind my point regarding the funding for the movie. Very few movies with that kind of language have ever been properly made. Those which have been made were in general historical films.

LotR makes this all much more difficult. Not only is it not historical (in the studio's eyes, at least :)), but it requires twice as much money as the ones that are historical. Studios, especially today, are very conservative with the kind of projects they pick to fund. With the same script that we see onscreen PJ could only get MiraMax to make two 2 hours movies. The reason wasn't due to the quality of the script; it was the fact that every previous fantasy film has flopped. He just barely got New Line to make it, which is incredible. I praise his script not merely for it's own merits, but for the fact that it actually got made.

Also, take into account that kind of talent it requires to make Tolkiens lines convincing. You'd really need a whole slate of professional actors to do this. I'm sure that were more of Tolkiens language kept we'd have ten-fold the number of complaints, at the actors performance if nothings else.