GOP: Ethnicities: Firefighter statue vs. Original photo

[Beorn]

A statue was designed of the famous photo of three firefighters raising the flag.

The designers felt that there should be a black firefighter to represent the ethnicity (sp?) of the city (I mean NYC). When this was found out, FDNY released the stats of the firefighter's ethnic backgrounds. 94% of FDNY firefighters are caucasion. 6% are black and other. Of the firefighters lost at the WTC, 88% or 90% (I can't remember which) were white.

Do you feel this change was necessary? I don't being that the statue shouldn't represent the city, but rather FDNY.

P.S. This wasn't my original topic, but I felt this important.

[Courtney]

I don't think it really matters what race they are on the statue, it still means the same thing.

I don't think many people today are racist. I don't think any black people would be offended if none of the firefighters were black, and I don't think any white poeple would be offended if there was a black firefighter.

[Talierin]

Do you know if the statue was to be bronze or stone? How would they make it so you could tell?

[daisy]

Courtney, just to let you know, there is plenty of racism, in the form of racist people, all over the place. I live in Toronto, and I am a high school teacher and I'll tell you, bigots are not in short supply. It may be true that overt racism is a little less in-our-face than it was before the civil rights movement really took hold, but racism is still insidious and still very real. You don't think the severe crises in Africa right now - civil war, famine, environmental destruction, AIDS has roots in the racist policies adapted by most 'first world' nations? Look around you at the people in power. I can count on two hands, maybe one, how many are of colour, and Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell take up two spots.
In Canada, a disproportionate number of incarcerated males are First Nations. In the United States, it's African Americans.
It's everywhere. And please God do not try to justify that by saying these 'people' just commit more crimes.

In terms of the statue, it's a tough call. If it was meant to be a depiction of that moment in time, then they should stick with the men who were actually holding the pole. However, if it was meant by the artist to represent all Americans, all firefighters etc. then having a mulit-cultural aspect is not a bad idea. I think the firefighters who were photographed should deal with their egos and realise that they're actually still alive and it's not really about them as individuals.

[Beorn]

NO! It's not the firefighters that have a problem with it (well not too much), but the people of New York City. I dunno about in other areas, but this photo is all over the place. First of all, as a photographer, I get mad when anyone attempts to change my picture. Secondly, the statue is going in one of the FDNY buildings, so it most definitely reflects the firefighters, and not the people.

I'm pretty sure it'll be bronze--if they do make it. The facial features depict a black firefighter.

And, yes: racisim is all over the place. Whether you believe it not, it's always going to be there because of the fact that people will never accept the inside of people if they look different on the outside.

[Dengen-Goroth]

Mike, it is a good topi indeed, glad you brought it up. I believe that racism can only be elliminated in youth, or else it will take to firm a grip. I'm a caucasian male, and I think we are all equal. I have excellent and very loved african american friends, who are much more trusty and intelligent then others, and I am also not embarresed to say I am white. It's just our color, our tone, nothing more. The culures of people are different, of course, and therefor there are some differences. We may indeed behve differently at times, or speak differently, etc. but in the end we are all one race. Alas, racism is apparent. Soon a rally will be held by African Americans against Middle Eastern individuals, and they have been urged to only buy their gasoline in stores run by African Americans. This, thy say, will not stop until the Middle Eastern individuals will agree with issues that the African American populace agrees with. If I made any mistake with the info, please tell.
*I want to stress, this being a very sensative topic, no insults or racial slander! Speak your mind withuot resorting to foul languange and deragatory statments*

[Asha'man]

I think that it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) matter what they make the firefighters in the statue look like. If some black firefighters want one of the men in the statue to be black, I say go for it. It doesn't take away from the white firefighters who died, and doesn't hurt anyone, so just do it. If it's a huge issue and all. If the original picture didn't feature a black person, and accuracy is the goal, then don't feature a black person. I'm not racist, but a lot of people are, and I guess this would be a huge issue for them. I say get the opinion of FDNY and see what they think; the statue is about them, after all.

When this topic runs its course, what if we talked about affirmative action and whether it helps or hurts minorities? I don't know if you're all sick of my topics yet or not, though. :D Maybe someone else should take a turn; let me know, Dengen.

Asha'man

(edited to clarify)

[Bill the Pony]

Agreed, it's a tough call, especially since it's such a sensitive issue, and I can understand arguments on both sides. So here's what my internal debate boiled down to, but my final opinion is still in the balance.
Personally, I do not care whether the fire fighters depicted are black or white. What I do care about is that it is still an issue, and I think it's a shame it came up at all. To me it seems that the whole debate going on (I don't mean on this forum, but in NY) achieves the opposite of what the people in favor of political correctness want to achieve. In the end the goal is that nobody even notices whether another person is black or white (or, only in the visual sense, similar to how we notice now if someone has blue or brown eyes). It seems to me that this whole debate achieves the opposite, and whichever choice is made, it will always be the wrong one. In fact, with the cultural melting pot New York is, it would be impossible to be pc and only portray three people...
So I realize racism is still very much an issue everywhere in the world, and it should definately be addressed. Still I think there are better ways to do that than to open a discussion about what race should be depicted on a statue. I'm still curious what other people think, after that going on to affirmative action (and whether this is a good way to address racism issues) sounds like an interesting topic to me.

[daisy]

Just for an update, the tribute to the New York firefighters has been called off due to controversy surrounding the alteration of racial/ethnicity of firefighters in the sculpture. Supposedly, as reported in the Toronto Sta, from the Associated Press, 1,000 signatures were collected by Firefighters against the sculpture due to the changes made to it.

So there it is.

[Courtney]

Daisy,
I guess I know there is racism still in the world, but it's just kind of hard for me to admit. I'm just immature that way. Someday I'll have to grow up and face the facts....

[Tar-Ancalime]

It is fair to say racisim is an often too occuring grudge...although anyone has right to his or her own opinion even if it might seem a tad "extreme". It is ok, hypothetically, to hold a grudge, however if that grudge turns into violent action the cause of the grudge (may it be skin color, religon, or veiws) is immeaditily invalid. It will quickly loose support. this was demonstrated with Martin luther king Jr., his topic, ritcheouss , would've been spewed on if he had used violent action. Luckily, he did not, and the necesesary steps were taken to make the situation fairer.

But, accusing someone of racisim of something purely accidental (i.e. grades and blaming teacher) is altogther wrong. Sadly , in america, the fine line between racisim, and truth is often shaded by mindless insults and long-held grudges. So is racisism really a factor? I believe it is a factor and will always be if man believes he has ethnocentric rights over another man.
Thank you for your time!:D