GOP: Invasion of Privacy I

[Dengen-Goroth]

Edited for continuity --<B>--
How far is to far in invasion of privacy, and are some of the techniques used lawful?

[Grond]

Invasion of privacy is an issue that is defined by one's government. I am sure what constitutes and invasion of privacy in Iraq isn't on the same standard as what would be invasion of privacy in say Denmark.

Let's be more specific. Why not have a discussion on whether the police should be able to put TV cameras to monitor public places for the purpose of preventing crime? This appears to be a big issue all over the world as more and more police agencies are using this as a means of crime deterrent while civil liberty groups are crying foul on the invasion of privacy issue.

[Courtney]

Oooooh... That's so creepy! I hate things like that. It reminds me too much of Orwell's 1984. In other words, I don't think that police should use video cameras in public places just in case there's going to be a crime committed.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
Yuk....

[Grond]

Be advised...... Grond is going to stir the pot.....

I understand the concern about cameras but the police is tasked with protecting the public. How is having a camera there any different than having a police officer there?

Just a simple question!

[Courtney]

A video is a permanent record of where you were at a certain time on a specific day. I find it extremely creepy that police will not only be recording my every move, but at any time in the future, they will be able to look up the video and know exactly where I was and exactly when I was there. I don't really know how to explain it any better...

[Grond]

Say you're walking down main street in your home town and someone steals your purse/wallet. Wouldn't you appreciate the camera then if it helped identify the robber. I wouldn't care if they knew where I was, as long as they were able to do their job (protect the public).

[daisy]

There are very few laws concerning privacy when it deals with public space. So I really have very little trouble with cameras. I don't think the footage should be used against people unless they are commiting a crime. And I am of course against cameras in private spaces like change rooms, private homes, bathrooms etc.
Kind-of crazy but true - I just surprised myself! Giuliani you're my dream man!:D

[ReadWryt]

My friends and I have decided that if they use the Facial Recognition Cameras at the SuperBowl here in San Diego next year we are going to get all of our Civil Libertarian friends and make hundreds of paper masks of the FBI Top Ten Fugatives with instructions to wear them from the front gates until they get to their seats. There are no laws against wearing masks, and it should trip the Facial Recognition software right and left. It seems like the most logical Non-Violent protest we could come up with...

[Asha'man]

RW: That sounds like a great idea. I'd probably join you if I were in CA. I disagree with facial-recognition cameras; they're just like the proverbial "camel's nose" in that they are just paving the way for more intrusive forms of surveillance. "Oh, but it's for your protection!" Yeah, I bet; how did people ever feel safe before omniscient video cameras? You just know there will be abuse and abuse of the system, and everyone will end up hating it, but once it's established it will never go away.

Anyway.

Once this topic dies, why don't we talk about hate crime legislation, and whether it's good or bad for people?

Asha'man

[ReadWryt]

I'm always leary when the NSA develops something "for my protection". It's like when they developed "Skipjack" and the "Clipper Chip" to protect my Privacy...Nothing Orwellian about the Spook Farm wanting to look after my privacy!:rolleyes:

[Gloer]

What is this spook farm?

One scary thing is the fact that pretty soon all data on all of your exchanges will be paid digitally. All products and services you purchase are recorded. In fact it is possible to create a complete consumer profile from this data. It is almost possible to predetermine your behaiviour with this data if it is consistent enough. Your credit card company knows you better than you do yourself.

And so what does Wall-Mart need specific data of a customer for? Nothing maybe. Or maybe they just sell it to someone else and make money that way...

Of course there are some laws prohibiting this. Still it is possible and who knows what we are prepared to legalize for our protection only...

[Snaga]

Originally posted by Gloer
What is this spook farm?

One scary thing is the fact that pretty soon all data on all of your exchanges will be paid digitally. All products and services you purchase are recorded. In fact it is possible to create a complete consumer profile from this data. It is almost possible to predetermine your behaiviour with this data if it is consistent enough. Your credit card company knows you better than you do yourself.

And so what does Wall-Mart need specific data of a customer for? Nothing maybe. Or maybe they just sell it to someone else and make money that way...

Of course there are some laws prohibiting this. Still it is possible and who knows what we are prepared to legalize for our protection only...

Well this IS something I know something about, since this is in fact what I work on (i.e. Customer Relationship Management - no I'm not an NSA spook!).

Firstly don't get too worried, most companies haven't got a clue who you are or what you are doing. They find it INCREDIBLY hard to collate data from various transactions. The bigger the company the harder it is. This sort of exercise for big multi-national is so expensive (100s of millions) and so huge (100s of people working for several years) that more often than not they don't really work. In a company like Wal Mart, they may WANT to understand you but if it costs so much to achieve, is it worth it? Why not just open a new store somewhere - its cheaper, and the chances of the project going belly up are much lower. Most companies can't don't have data that tells them much that is that useful anyway. Exceptions might be supermarkets - if they can consolidate all information on your purchasing habits (that's why they all have loyalty cards) and banks (if they have your current ie checking account). Credit cards might help too if you use it a lot. If like me, you buy one or two biggish things every so often it, the information is on its own quite useless.

However if you are a bank or a supermarket you can construe all sorts of things. Banks could work out when you've been promoted, sacked, had a baby, moved house, changed supermarket, lifestyle etc. Supermarkets could tell you what you eat, if you're dieting, what pets you have, if you've had a baby, attitudes to lots of things etc the environment etc

The issue for companies - and they are aware of it - is that they have an opportunity to make a shed load of money with this information, but if they hack people off doing it they will get regulated out of the water. Whether they are able to act responsibly remains to be seen. I'd be surprised though...

As for selling data on, in the UK this has to be done with the consent of the consumer at the time the data is provided to the first company.