Open Discussion

[Ancalagon]

Please use this section to add your comments, concerns , feedback or queries about any aspect of the Guild. This is open to all forum members to add their comments.

[Ancalagon]

The first disussion must be in relation to the claims that this Guild is discriminating against younger members of the forum. References to this can be located in all of the following threads;

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4621

http://forums.lotronline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2909

and

http://forums.lotronline.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2911

If the general concensus is that we are Guilty of negative discrimination, then I would be more than happy to remove the age-related barrier in place on the Guild. However, if the feelings expressed are in support of the current format, then it will remain as it is. Democracy in action!

[Thorin]

O brother....Where does Maedhros get the bees for his bonnets? I fail to see how having 1 out of 17 rooms on this forum where mature adults can weed out immature youngesters (though there are many mature youngsters on this forum) to discuss Tolkien without the YAY! and LOL one word threads and the consistent use of :D :p :) ;) :D ;) :) after every fifth word to emphasise why Orlando Bloom is so hot and whom should be loving Legolam (just an example, Legolam, not disrespect) or marrying whomever, or who's the cutest in LoTR, and how Elijah Wood's sappy eyes just make someone melt.....

Nobody is discriminating when there are many othe rooms that everyone can participate in.....Get off your high horse Maedhros and others who feel that everyone should be included in everything all the time and realize that the real world doesn't work that way and that there are requirements for most everything.....

The Tolkien forum would be discriminatory if you had to be over 30 to post anywhere period.....So far, I haven't seen that....

[7doubles]

i agree with thorin 100%. the older members need at least one mature thread to converse.

[Ancalagon]

I wonder if I had named this Guild, 'The Springfield Retirement Castle', would we have got the same response?

[7doubles]

good point. the reverse phycololgy to counter intelagents. change the name to something that sounds less apealing to avert intrust.

[Grond]

I personally don't find it at all offensive or discriminatory to have a guild where us old fogey's of the forum can meet and discuss our Tolkien war stories. Many of our discussions will be open to all. Some will not.

I see no problem.

[7doubles]

the word guid inplys an eleite groub of members. this makes people feal inferior and
and jellous. so they wish to destroy what teir not apart of. "childness" mot mature, why don't they build a 17 to 27 and one for kidds under 16

i cant be a girlscout but nobodys complaining

[Elbereth]

Anc, I'm just curious to know what made you decide that 30 was the proper starting age.

I understand the need to have a space for more mature members to meet and discuss Tolkien's work. I know that being in my mid 20's, I find it difficult at times to relate to most of the forum, because many are in high school or in college and have an entirely different outlook on life. So I support what you are doing. I'm just wondering why 30 is the age of maturity.

[Ancalagon]

I plucked it out of the air Elbereth to be honest. Most of the people who I would associate with on the forum, more than simply posting replies too, are well over 30 and of like-mind to myself. I suppose it was initially jolted into my mind by a post Rangerdave made in a thread about Gronds birthday; something to do with old Dinosaurs! When I was in my 20s I didn't consider myself an old Dinosaur ever, though now I have broken the 30 barrier, I like to think that I fit the bill.

No malice was intended, for everyone who signed up knew they were simply poking fun at themselves.

[7doubles]

beside i'm 28 and they flexed tte rules for me.

[Greenwood]

Since many of the threads would be open to all Forum members I don't really see the problem.

[Turgon]

This thread is crazy - I'm sure when Ancalagon envisioned this guild he had no thoughts of discrimination in his mind - I joined it in a flash. Not because of the age thing (I'm not even thirty yet) and not because I find other parts of the forum to be nonsense (I post nonsense everywhere...) but because it was, as Anc described it, a place where the 'Dinosaurs' of the forum could come to discuss ME over a pipe and a mug of ale - any different from the numerous bars and guilds spotted about the forum?
Is it discriminatory...? Mmm... I don't know... maybe in an abstract sense - but when it comes to the day to day life of the forum - no.
I do think it would be a shame if other members of the forum couldn't post - I agree with Elbereth's post there. I liked the original rule #6 where all TTF members could post unless specified - but other than that I think Anc has come up with a great idea to get this forum rocking again...:)

[Elfarmari]

What's wrong with starting a guild for people over 30? If people can start clubs for Gollum-lovers, I don't see the problem. Anyone who feels discriminated against should start a guild only open to members under 30!

[Elbereth]

Thanks Anc,

You answered my question well. And don't worry, I never thought there was any malice involved. ;)

PS...You are correct, at my age I don't really feel like an "old Dinosaur" yet...(although sometimes talking to all the youngsters in the forum, I do feel pretty old). So enjoy the "retirement home" that you have set up for yourselves. As for me, I'll be living up the last days of my youthful 20's in the younger threads. ;) :D Good Luck!

[Walter]

I have but 2 suggestions:

1) Let's set the age limit to 40
2) Let's call it "TheTolkienForum's Shady Pines"

Cheers

PS: I wonder if Estelle Getty ever read Tolkien, maybe we could invite her here... ;)

[ReadWryt]

I'm just wondering who deleted my post at the end of the first thread posted?

[Ancalagon]

I was wondering that myself, I had an email telling me you had posted and when I got there it was gone! Mystery?

[Valar]

I think this is a Great idea Anc. Although i'm still 5 years short of joining, i am not bitter...much. It does become a bit annoying sometimes, with such a big age difference between some members, but most of the time i don't notice it, or choose to ignore it. I wish The Guild of Ost-in-Edhil every succsess. Oh also before i came in i noticed the delivery of zimmer frames, a Bingo machine, and an Inflatable grandson for you to talk about the war for hours too. Have fun oldies.

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by Elbereth
As for me, I'll be living up the last days of my youthful 20's in the younger threads. ;) :D

Youth, Beauty and Wisdom all in one package. How efficeint of you.

:p
RD

[Ancalagon]

I am still extremely keen on the forming of other Guilds that will see fit to challenge these old dinosaurs to debate. It is a great way to liven up the forum, it just menas one needs people of likemind to group together and become a formidable force. Plenty of wisdom out there, young and old;lets see who bares their fangs or toothless grin first!

[Elbereth]

Originally posted by Rangerdave


Youth, Beauty and Wisdom all in one package. How efficeint of you.

:p
RD

Wow! That is so incredibly sweet of you RD!

Thanks! :p

(I do hope that was a compliment :confused: )

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by Elbereth

(I do hope that was a compliment :confused: )

But of course. After viewing your picture I felt that you were very attractive. But as I grow older (and I hope wiser) I have come to learn that true beauty is "between the ears." Anyone can be pretty, but a woman with strong convictions and flowing speech that is also physically attractive is something rare.

So take the admiration for what it is and enjoy.

RD



ps. If I had meant it to be insulting, I would have either not posted it or PM'ed to you. I praise in public and condemn in private.

d

[Chymaera]

I was chosen as the Lucky number :)

Getting older has lost it's virtue over the years.
Once I turned 18 going to the bar just wasn't any fun anymore. :D
I don't know whether I should be insulted when they offer me the seniors discount:confused:
Does being mature mean that you can't have fun anymore? Or does the fun just slow down a bit more?:(

[Ancalagon]

Stop your whinging 'aul fella' and tell us how you did that with your avatar! :)

Getting older doesnt mean anything other than the fact that you drink more, sleep less, worry more, think less! Well, that's how I see it.

Seriously though, tweak my avatar and give me the Ost-in-Edhil flash with my puffing dragon. BTW, welcome to The Shady Pines (thanks Walter), just pull up a chair and watch TV with the rest of us.

[Chymaera]

Thank you for the warm welcome Ancalagon.")

I used the app Uline GIF Animator that Darth Webmaster posted;). on the Avatar thread

Down loaded the 15 day trail and found it very easy to use. The Ost-in-edhil flash I made using the Paint program on windows

I'll try to attach the flash here.

Well I'll be. It worked. I tried to attached the flash but I lost your puffs so you try it and see:)

[Chymaera]

Originally posted by Ancalagon
Seriously though, tweak my avatar and give me the Ost-in-Edhil flash with my puffing dragon. BTW, welcome to The Shady Pines (thanks Walter), just pull up a chair and watch TV with the rest of us.

I think I got it upload this

Looks like you got it have fun:D

So, who has the TV clicker lets see whats on Is the World Cup still on:)

[Walter]

For those who want a graphics program and don't want to spend the money for the Photoshop, I would recommend Paintshop Pro. It has a great image editor, an additional program for creating animated GIFs and a few more nice add-ons...

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by Walter
For those who want a graphics program and don't want to spend the money for the Photoshop, I would recommend Paintshop Pro. It has a great image editor, an additional program for creating animated GIFs and a few more nice add-ons...

Or for those who are up for a little bit of dishonesty, you can always uninstall the program after 15 days, then use a free registry cleaner like Toni-Arts Easy Cleaner to remove the trace and then re-install. I've been using Ulead for about two years now.

It not be nice or honorable, but I'm a cheap old bas**rd.

RD

[ReadWryt]

Tsk Tsk. Although Copyright Infringement IS your best entertainment value, TheTolkienForum.com does not condone nor encourage the "piracy" of software or in any way defeating the time limits on demonstration versions of programs.

End of disclaimer. Void where prohibited by law. Batteries not included. Not for Highway use. Side effects are simillar to sugar pills and may include Nausia, Irritable Bowels, Shortness of Breath, Small Green Growths in the Armpists or One leg getting longer then the other.

[Walter]

Originally posted by ReadWryt
Tsk Tsk. Although Copyright Infringement IS your best entertainment value, TheTolkienForum.com does not condone nor encourage the "piracy" of software or in any way defeating the time limits on demonstration versions of programs.Since our "Über-Moderator" is not overly specific about who or what he is referring to, I for my part would like to state that I was by no means encouraging to violate any copyright laws, my post was referring to the fact that Jasc's Paintshop Pro comes for a fraction of the price of Adobe Photoshop...

[Ancalagon]

Thanks Chymaera, you have worked wonders:) I wonder if the other members of the Guild would like this done to their avatars? Not that I want to make work for you of course:)

[Chymaera]

Originally posted by Ancalagon
Thanks Chymaera, you have worked wonders:)
Glad I could help:)

[Chymaera]

Originally posted by Walter

2) Let's call it "TheTolkienForum's Shady Pines"
Shady Pine, Shady Pines. Now how would that go...
Dorthonion='Land of Pines' so Pines would be 'Thonion'

Now Shady is a bit harder.:D
Avathar='The Shadows', the forsaken land on the coast of Aman south of the Bay of Eldemar. Where Melko met Ungoliant.:eek:
Delduwath='Horror of the Night-shadows', one of the later names of Dorthonion[went down hill pretty quick]
Dor daedeloth='Land of the Shadow of Horror'
Dor Firn-i-Guinar='Land of the Dead that Live'[sound like a nasty name for and old folks home]
Ephel Duath='Fence of Shadow'
Ered Wethrin='The Shadowy Mountains'
Hellium='The Star Sirius' [interesting, off topic but interesting]
lomelindi='dusk-singers', nightingales.
Mordor='The Shadow Land'
Taur-nu-Fuin='The forest under the Night', another name for Dorthonion.
Thuringwethil='Woman of the Secret Shadows', Messenger of Sauron, in whose shape Luthien entered Angband.
dae- ='shadow'
lome- ='dusk'
mith- ='grey'

See shady is a tough nut to crack.

Shady Pines= Daethonion??
=Wethrthonion???
you be the judge.
:D

[Ancalagon]

See shady is a tough nut to crack.

Shady Pines= Daethonion??
=Wethrthonion???
you be the judge.


My head has just exploded:)

[Chymaera]

:D

the answers are all in the back of the book,hehehe

*getting broom and dustpan*
mind your step everyone while I clean up this mess that Ancalagon has left.
Pieces of head everywhere, tsk tsk:D


I hope that that isn't a violation of RULE#4 lol:D

[chrysophalax]

Excuse the interruption! This is a shameless plug for the RPG REDEMPTION! Several of you have been following it I know and nominations for the RPG Oscars are underway now! If you believe, clap your hands!

Whoops! Wrong book...I digress! Anyway, we could really use the nominations, OK? My Thanks!

[Walter]

Originally posted by Chymaera
See shady is a tough nut to crack.

Shady Pines= Daethonion??
=Wethrthonion???
you be the judge.
:D
According to Dor-Daedeloth I would vote for "Daethonion" until someone more fluent in elvish comes up with a better one...

[Chymaera]

wow

Walter thank you. I was just messing around.
but I an so glad you like my mussing:D

[Chymaera]

Originally posted by Walter

According to Dor-Daedeloth I would vote for "Daethonion" until someone more fluent in elvish comes up with a better one... I've found better maybe even the best!
In The Book of Lost Tales part one Appendix
Aldaron In QL is a root ALA 'sperad', with derivatives alda 'tree', aldëa 'tree-shadowed', aldëon 'avenue of trees'


aldëa 'tree-shadowed' can't get too much closer to Shady then that!!

so Aldëathonion should read tree-shadowed pines

[Chymaera]

New and Improved Avatar for Ancalgon;)

The change is minor but significant :D

[Chymaera]

I am embarassed:o

that should have worked and you can't add an attachment while editing, oh vell, maybe in vB v3.00.:D

[Ancalagon]

I will never change my avatar! I am sticking with the one I have! Do you think me a madman to even consider change?

[Chymaera]

You have to respect a man who sticks to his principles.;)

No one can say that rank and privilege go to your head, O Great Guild-Master. :D :D :D



:p ;) :D

And I am sure that Grond would feel the same about this avatar

[Grond]

LOL.... the avatar is a little less masculine than I was hoping for but it is great, nonetheless. Thanks!!!!

[Chymaera]

Glad you like it, But we will search for some thing more manly ;)

[Ancalagon]

Yes, maybe you could add a handlebar moustache, toolbelt and workmans helmet:) Well, that and some denim shorts! Would that be manly enough for you?

[Chymaera]

If he had lived, would Fíli have been Thorin's heir and become King under the Mountain?

Would Dwalin follow in his brothers foot steps and resettled Moria and become himself, Lord of Moria?

[Ancalagon]

Chy, you should move that question into the Question Bank (see my sig).

Arvedui, Happy Birthday my good man, may you have many more but with longer periods inbetween:)

[Arvedui]

Thank you Anc!
Would it be that your wish is correct, but Alas! my doom is not clear to me. It is hidden in the shadows.

[Ancalagon]

I have been thinking for a while now how we as a Guild can do more collective tasks together....you know, like a cheesy 'team building' exercise:D One of the things I had contemplated was how we can help to contribute to both furthering our own knowledge, as well as providing content for www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi

My goal is to actually try and deliver a more scientific approach to providing the Wiki with solid, factual information while debating and deliberating among ourselves the content and putting together our own encyclopedia of research. This would be in keeping with the considerations some members have expressed regarding this Guilds approach to researching Tolkien. I tend to agree and feel a more concerted effort be made in contributions. I guess it might be considered a miniature along the lines of 'The Silmarillion - Proposed Draft, Canon Studies and Theories' currently in production at The Barrow-Downs (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi) only focusing on single items, places, events etc.

Obvously this is an idea that we would all need to buy into, as it would mean a tremendous amount of searching and quoting for the purpose of collectively finishing each article. My guess would be that we select a subject; 'The Palatiri; Their Origin and Function' for example, and each contribute various quotes, thoughts and ideas, in order to come up with a final submission for the Wiki.

I am not sure how best we could do this, or what subjects we could collectively look at, but it would be of great value as each work is completed. I would still be keen for an official link between this forum and the Wiki as was originally intended.

As always, please add your thoughts and concerns;)

[Lhunithiliel]

If I may say, I am ALL FOR THIS IDEA!

For me, personally, the best way to study a piece of Tolkien's writings is to finalize it with a summary or/and description at the Wiki. Thus, I summarize my individual knowledge but also I offer it at others' disposal both - to use it as an information source just as well as to add new important facts to the information provided.
This is actually the best feature of Wiki, isn't it?! :)

[Arvedui]

I second the idea. That would, IMO, serve two purposes. We could be able to make an even better contribution to the Wiki, and I would probably get ever better knowledge and understanding about Tolkiens world (to speak about some personall benefit, he-he...)

[Walter]

Well, I too second this idea (now, who would've thought ;)) and of course I will support it.

And, seriously, I think this could be a win-win situation for TTF as well as TTW, but first and foremost it would be a gain for every Tolkien-fan.

since I'm somewhat in a hurry, I'll try to explain that a bit more in detail later...

[Ancalagon]

Good, I am glad we are in agreement;)

Now, this needs some sort of organisation, which I would hope one of you may be able to attend to. As a group, we can each contribute, but it is essential that at least one of our membership takes responsibility for this. This will include setting a loose schedule, topics and PMing all our members to seek their inclusion.

I will await with baited breath:)

[Walter]

Originally posted by Ancalagon
Good, I am glad we are in agreement;) But aren't we always in agreement? More or less anyways... ;)
Now, this needs some sort of organisation, which I would hope one of you may be able to attend to. As a group, we can each contribute, but it is essential that at least one of our membership takes responsibility for this. This will include setting a loose schedule, topics and PMing all our members to seek their inclusion.Aye, I could not agree more. (See...? ;))

As for representing the Wiki here, I will have to do this myself, since I'm familiar with the Wiki-software and the technical possibilities we have there, and I am sure there will arise some questions in that context.

As for the procedure from here on, or the organisation thereof, I would suggest two things: For one we should have a chat on MSN anytime soon about this, and on the other hand we could set up a thread here discussing and describing the necessary things you already mentioned (topics, schedule, links to and fro, etc.).

How's that sound for a start?

[Lhunithiliel]

Originally posted by Ancalagon
Good, I am glad we are in agreement;)

Now, this needs some sort of organisation, which I would hope one of you may be able to attend to. As a group, we can each contribute, but it is essential that at least one of our membership takes responsibility for this. This will include setting a loose schedule, topics and PMing all our members to seek their inclusion.

I will await with baited breath

Me - being an OUTSIDER to your Guild.... means I'm excluded? ;)
I personally would like to keep on filling in the Wiki pages with the needed information.
As for the organisation - I'll obey to whatever form you, as members of your guild, chose. :cool:

[Ancalagon]

Absolutely fine my good friend Walter;)

Now, as Guildmaster and busy Super-Moderator, I am delegating the task of progressing this issue to the good members of this Guild. I will participate and offer my contributions, but I would hope that someone takes up the reins of this to run as a project:) That person is also welcome to start the ball rolling ASAP.

I will gladly have a chat on MSM.

[Ancalagon]

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
Me - being an OUTSIDER to your Guild.... means I'm excluded? ;)
I personally would like to keep on filling in the Wiki pages with the needed information.
As for the organisation - I'll obey to whatever form you, as members of your guild, chose. :cool:

There is nothing to stop you jumping ship;)

[Lhunithiliel]

Do you want me to become a TRAITOR ?????!!!!!

NEVER! :D :D

You yourself are not going to respect me for this, are you?

[Chymaera]

Let me know if this is OK? Arvedui

[Arvedui]

Splendid! Everything I had hoped for. Thank you very much!

[spirit]

wow. YOu guys have sone nice avatars!

[Chymaera]

thank you we grow them out behind the Guildhall, free ranges you understand.;)