Giants of the Misty Mountains

[Eonwe]

Well, are they real or not?

Bilbo talks at length about some stone giants throwing rocks at each other and catching them, high up in the misty mountains during a thunderstorm.

Even Thorin comments that they can't stick around with the giants there, and Gandalf is upset about it.

Embellishment of the trip by Bilbo? This is a published work by Tolkien, but the giants never appear anywhere else in his works.

I don't think he meant trolls, since Bilbo at that point was intimately familiar with trolls.

Do you believe in the giants?
:confused:

[Harad]

If you want to read the longest original post of all time that talks about trolls, hill trolls, stone trolls, and anything like it, see ShagratU in:

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=50595#post50595

Since he doesnt mention Stone Giants, but Stone everything else, maybe there is no other mention in LOTR...

[Nimawae's hope]

Maybe Tolkien simply had no room for his giants in his other stories. But then what about what's his name on Carahdrhas(SP.)was he maybe a type of stone giant?! HMMMM! Something to think about. I mean he cast stones about too, right?

[Beleg Strongbow]

I honestly don't know if i beleive in the stone giants but i think that at the time of the hobbit they were real and when lotr came along they weren't. Imagine if Sauron had them 4 his war? Or if Gondor could use them? And i know both Gandalf,bilbo and thorin have talked about the dragons but everyother time they have crossed the misty mountains they were never seen again. But i think that maybe tolkien wrote about them in the hob and then forgot or couldn't be bothered 2 write more about them.
P.S Maybe he just didn't have time??:confused: :)

[Nimawae's hope]

Hey! What about my suggestion about Caradhras!?!

[Tulkas]

About Caradhras, I think it would fit perfectly, but I doubt Tolkien meant for them to be the stone giants.

[Eonwe]

I like the evil will of Caradhras and the fell voices being stone giants theory... I just never thought of it like that.

But there are other things in the Hobbit that are not anywhere else. Sort of like Bilbo's artistic license, or is it real?

[Legolam]

I like the idea that Bilbo would embellish on his story when he wrote it and describe the rocks moving around aslike being in the middle of a stone giant fight.

But I think the real reason is that it didn't fit in with the tone and story of LOTR, which is sad, cos the giants were cool! :)

[Nimawae's hope]

Well then what the heck was Caradhras if he wasn't a stone giant!? He wasn't a wizard was he!!!??

[Eonwe]

Caradhras was a huge mountain, that Gimli said has always had an evil will/name. I don't think they talked about it as a person or being?

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Eonwe
Caradhras was a huge mountain, that Gimli said has always had an evil will/name. I don't think they talked about it as a person or being?



Caradhas was a mountain in the misty mountains and the dwarves whose mansions of khazad-dum were under that and 2 others said that it was evil trying to hinder them in every way. I thought that maybe it was sauron or saurman trying to hinder them with the rocks. Remember someone said that if it was sauron that his arm had grown long then gandalf said it had grown long.

[Anira the Elf]

i don't get this at all??????????:confused:

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow




Caradhas was a mountain in the misty mountains and the dwarves whose mansions of khazad-dum were under that and 2 others said that it was evil trying to hinder them in every way. I thought that maybe it was sauron or saurman trying to hinder them with the rocks. Remember someone said that if it was sauron that his arm had grown long then gandalf said it had grown long.


Sorry bad word phrasing. There wer 3 mountains caradhas being 1 of which khazad-dum was built under. The dwarves thought that it was evil Trying to hinder them in anyway. I also mant that it was maybe sauron or sruman trying to hinder them (the fellowship).

[Nimawae's hope]

Are you quite sure that Caradhras was just the mountain itself? I always thought that he was a type of giant that looked like stone, and he controlled the powers of the mountain. You know, kinda like a king of the mountain! Can anyone find any quotes to prove or disprove my point? I may be wrong, that was just the impression that I always had.

[Snaga]

Nim

There's a whole massive debate about the events of Caradhras that rumbles along through LotR book and movie forum, and rears its ugly head on various threads. It never seems to get anywhere because Tolkien never really answers the question. For example there is certainly nothing in the book to suggest Saruman is to blame, as in the film, but people have tried to prove it wasn't Saruman's doing and got nowhere. Your theory is new to me, I certainly never thought of it like that, but your guess is as good as anyone elses.:)

[Nimawae's hope]

:D :D :D Guess that's just how I envisioned it!!! (I didn't know this was a debate!!! Where have I been!?!)

[Snaga]

I don't know but if Harad and Grond get a sniff of this it will run and run!:)

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Variag of Khand
I don't know but if Harad and Grond get a sniff of this it will run and run!:)

I think so 2. But i still beleive that there wasn't a giant on caradhas. But there is still a possiblity that they are still alive. But imagine if they were used in the war how much damage they could do.

[Eonwe]

I found another spot where Gandalf describes them, when he is telling Beorn about what has happened to them.

[Snaga]

Isn't there a bit somewhere where Gandalf says he will see if he can find a half-decent giant to block up the Goblins back door in the High Pass? I can't find it though:confused:

[Úlairi]

I guess this is yet another one of Tolkien's great mysteries. But as always, I do have a theory. The Fellowship did not pass through the same area as when Bilbo did in 'The Hobbit', correct?! So, perhaps the stone giants were situated in one particular area of the Misty Mountains and nowhere else, just like 'Old Man Willow'! Anyone agree???:confused: :D :D

[Khamul]

I really dont know, I just think that Tolkien couldnt find a suitable way to put the Giants in the trilogy.

[LadyGaladriel]

in The Fellowship doesn't Tolkien mention about Giants moving from the east? So that must mean that There were giants

[Anarchist]

I was as confused when I read about them (which was just today since I am reading The Hobbit for the first time). The mystery remains that if those giants were that powerful and important then why don't we see them anywhere else? My opinion is that Tolkien considers the giants as part of the mountains not just living on them. It's like salt being part of the sea or something. Maybe they were moving figures but part of the world Eru created. Maybe if we had such figures as part of our nature we wouldn't be so confused. As for Caradhas, I think it was something like a mountain god. Or maybe the mountain itself turned to a living thing. This method of turning objectss like mountains or rivers to living things is not uncommon. Tolkien had studied a lot about other cultures. This method is very common in Greek mythology (I am Greek so I know some stuff about it). The ancient Greek liked it a lot. Maybe Tolkien liked it also so he wanted to add this in his magnificent work. Well it is obvious that it worked well!

[JeffF.]

The Hobbit mentions Stone Giants during the storm Thorin and Company suffered through in their passage of the Misty Mountain pass. Later after the escape from the Goblins Gandalf mentions that he must find a "more or less friendly giant" to close up the cleft the Goblins have. Who or what are these creatures and why do they not appear in Lord of the Rings when virtually every other creature written about in the Hobbit does.?

[LadyGaladriel]

I think Tolkien left it out because they had no real revelence to the plot. I think also He did not really have enough time to go into depth about the origans of these creatures.
It does mention about Giants moving away from the east though as an example of the queer happenings in Middleearth.

[Anarchist]

This has been discussed before. When it first appeared, I expressed the opinion that they were something like the spirit of mountain Caradhas. Parts of the mountain or the mountain itself. Things of nature like the trees, the sand and the rain. Or perhaps there were no sone giants and Tolkien just meant that there were a lot of stone falling as if stone giants were throwing them.

[Eledhwen]

Your Caradhras explanation is an excellent mind-picture of Stone Giants. I don't think it could have been just cascading stones, though - that explanation doesn't sound like Gandalf to me.

ps: have you ever read Tom Holt's novel about Alexander the Great?

[Beorn]

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2691

[Turgon]

I subscribe to the idea that the stone giants were spirits too - but more like 'Spirits of Place' give physical shape. I see this a lot in Tolkien's work - though I'm sure most members would disagree with me. The best example of this is Goldberry - who to me is very like the water nymphs of Greek Mythology - she is a spirit of place - the spirit of the Wythewindle, or most likely Wythewindle's daughter. That's how I interpret the title 'River's Daughter'. I also interpret Bombadil as a 'spirit of place' too, though in his case one of greater power. Like the Dryads and Naiads of Greek Mythology - these spirits are tied to their 'natural' homes - though in Tom's case I guess at one time this was far larger than the Old Forest region - possible the original Great Forest of Western ME.

[Theoden]

Originally posted by Turgon
I subscribe to the idea that the stone giants were spirits too - but more like 'Spirits of Place' give physical shape. I see this a lot in Tolkien's work - though I'm sure most members would disagree with me. The best example of this is Goldberry - who to me is very like the water nymphs of Greek Mythology - she is a spirit of place - the spirit of the Wythewindle, or most likely Wythewindle's daughter. That's how I interpret the title 'River's Daughter'. I also interpret Bombadil as a 'spirit of place' too, though in his case one of greater power. Like the Dryads and Naiads of Greek Mythology - these spirits are tied to their 'natural' homes - though in Tom's case I guess at one time this was far larger than the Old Forest region - possible the original Great Forest of Western ME.

I think I would have to agree with you on this one.
It seems to me that the reason tolkien did not go into great detail about these creatures is because he had not the time nor were they a real important part of the plot. I always thought of them as giants who could lay down in such a way as to look like large stones. But this cunclusion is drawn not from Tolkien, but from CS Lewis who wrote about Stone Giants in his book The Silver Chair. Since CS Lewis and Tolkien were good friends, it only stands to reason that they also shared similar characters in their stories. Just a thought.:rolleyes:

-me

[Olog-Hai]

Giants...

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"... across the valley the stone-giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among the trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang."

"If we don't get blown off, or drowned, or struck by lightning, we shall be picked up by some giant and kicked sky-high for a foot ball."

"Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came."
----------------------------------------

Never have I had such a time with placing any of Tolkien's creatures as I have with Giants. Where did they come from? Where did they go? With such monsterous creatures stomping around, why didn't Sauron put a spell on these Giants and use them to stomp Gondor off the map?

I can't find any reference to "stone-giants" anywhere but 'The Hobbit'.

Do any references exist in any other of his works?

[ReadWryt]

...let alone that there are Good Giants and Bad Giants...Gandalf mentions getting a Giant to plug up the Goblin Hole.